Linked by Jeremy LaCroix on Thu 7th Apr 2005 17:28 UTC
Linspire Linspire has always intrigued me, it's a professional class operating system aimed at the mainstream market, and one of the few Linux distributions available in boxed sets. I've never really been a big fan of Linspire though, because I am a power user. Still, I was intrigued enough to inquire about reviewing Linspire, and they were nice enough to provide me with a digital download copy with a trial Click N Run (CNR) subscription. I wasn't too keen about blowing away my Fedora installation (I only have one computer with enough resources to run anything above DOS) but eventually curiousity took over, and I went for it.
Order by: Score:
GPL
by Anonymous on Thu 7th Apr 2005 17:39 UTC

The GPL allows people to redistribute software and modify and charge for it if they wish. It doesn't prevent anyone from making money as long as the source is provided with it. You may want to read more about it before making statements about compensating the authors of free software.

Other Linux Distros
by Stephen Komae on Thu 7th Apr 2005 17:55 UTC

You say that your computer is barely able to run DOS. If so, then running Fedora, with GNOME (I believe), is not the best way to utilize your system. GNOME is a great desktop environment but on machines with less than 512MB RAM, it tends to start feeling sluggish (in my opinion). I suggest XFCE 4.2 as an alternative to GNOME, as it maintains GNOME compatibilty, is written in GTK2, and is light and zippy. If you feel you are up to task (and have a bit of free time), I would suggest perhaps giving Slackware, Arch, or Gentoo a look. These distros are optimized and can help squeeze some more power and speed from your computer. Because you are used to running a Fedora system, it might be hard to adjust at first, but you might find it to be in fact more pleasant. Running these distros may sound like a daunting task, but several people I know have switched to more 'advanced' Linux distributions and are much happier. There are also a few Slackware- and Gentoo- based distributions to make the switch easier, notably VectorLinux and VidaLinux. Although such distributions have gained a reputation for being difficult to use, they are easy to adapt to if one keeps an open mind.

...
by Anonymous on Thu 7th Apr 2005 18:13 UTC

GNOME is a great desktop environment but on machines with less than 512MB RAM

I use it with 384 RAM, no problems here.

I disagree ...
by Moulinneuf on Thu 7th Apr 2005 18:20 UTC

"it's a professional class operating system "

Its Gnu/Linux from Debian rebranded/modified by Linspire
what do you expect ?

"aimed at the mainstream market"

No , its aimed at the new user comming from windows , or at least thats what Mr Carmonny said :

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10195

"and one of the few Linux distributions available in boxed sets."

availaible in some store you might have add a point in boxed set , nah , there is at least 200 of them who are.

"I wasn't too keen about blowing away my Fedora installation "

Its GNU/Linux you could have dual booted it :

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,G...

"I only have one computer with enough resources to run anything above DOS"

You have 400$ ?

http://www.linspire.com/featured_partner/featured_partner.php?sent=...

Thats because I like laptop , but as you can see there is a complete machine for 200$

"Very frustrating, but after about an hour of searching Google, I found out about a small text file in the middle of nowhere that was to blame."

Why you did not use there forum and support system ? could not find them ? or you where not authorized to use them ?

"When it comes ... of the other applications"

Its a feature of Linspire , everyone hate it exept some vocal Linspire user and there Management.

"This reminds me of how hard it was to achieve this with Fedora."

Try Mandriva ( MandrakeSoft new name ), SuSe , Knoppix , PclinuxOS , distrowatch.com , its all standard now.

"A Note About The (Lack of) Speed:"

Its GNU/Linux and KDE , you probably have something not setup properly or too targeted for another system. Or you have a plethora of sub system running in the background who dont need to all the time.

"Software Installation (Click N Run)"

I dont think your stance is reasonnable , you dont pay for the Free software ( which for the most of them arent there ) , you pay for the customization , integration , phone support , etc ...

I personnaly dont like C N R because :

- No Luck if no internet connection
- Not open source so that othe can improve it
- Cant use it if you dont get access to internet for local distribution on your local lan.
- It dont offer all the fre software availaible by design.

"Stability"

Bug report so that it get fixed ... From reading you there is a problem in the way the instalation whas done.

"Misc. Notes"

Your system , because of something , aint working great I think its unfair to put all the blame on Linspire and to even show it to your wife in this state.

Thks for the review and sharing of your tought Mr LaCroix.

----------

I have a Point for Mr Carmony and the Linspire Support team who I am sure will be astroturfing and reading this:

One problem GNU/Linux as is the fact that instalation aint always 100% a sure thing. This reviews examplifies this , one service that Linspire could offer is for a small fee 25$ - 50$ , you get a UPS box , put computer inside, send to Linspire HQ or regionnal Tech lab and some Linspire certified technician , analyze it and make a master for that computer , it would be great for many reason:

1) the customer get to see the power of Linspire at its best.
2) You get to see a set of hardware you might not have add the luck to have.
3) You get a Master that you can resale and offer to your resallers , insiders , Linspire user and the rest of the world for that particular model of computer.
4) you improve you alrady good support , normally ...

who doesnt love more RAM?
by aaron on Thu 7th Apr 2005 18:26 UTC

im running Fedora with 256MB but i would not suggest anything under it.. it does get slow sometimes but im loving it.

huh?
by bagdadbob on Thu 7th Apr 2005 18:26 UTC

You found Linspire slow? I have XP, Xandros and Linspire on my machine - Linspire boots faster than the other two and is more snappy in starting and running applications.

As far as TV Time goes - I have been running it in user mode without any problems. The one I have trouble with is MythTV which causes a black screen, but doesn't actually kill the system. BTW, if you need to run something as root, just use the menu editor and find the reference to the application and click on "run as different user" and fill in root as the other user. I believe that is standard KDE.

I haven't had a single problem with the sound system, but I understand that built in sound cards can be a problem.

The only problem that I have encountered with CNR is that I can't install America's Army - it keeps bombing on me. I even CNRed MonoDevelop and have begun porting some .NET apps to Mono.

The problems that I have with the system is that captive-ntfs doesn't work (due to LUFS) and MythTV has been unstable for me (I'm sure I will find a solution in the forums though).

Another Linspire 5.0 review...
by ? on Thu 7th Apr 2005 18:29 UTC

Eugina. How many reviews is enough?

v I disagree ...
by Feed up with Trolls! on Thu 7th Apr 2005 18:31 UTC
v Moulinneuf
by Ubuntu User on Thu 7th Apr 2005 18:40 UTC
who allowed this guy to review?
by Tudy on Thu 7th Apr 2005 19:16 UTC

He says that Linspire Internet Suite is Konqueror rebranded! Riiiiight!

He can't even make the difference between mozilla and konq!!

Something has to be slow about Linspire.

:)

Crashing...
by Tuishimi on Thu 7th Apr 2005 19:26 UTC

...that is so weird. I have never had Linux just "crash" on me. Never. For that matter, I haven't had a Windows crash in years. So what's up with these people who can crash there systems 3 times in a week? I am a software engineer and run the programs I am developing all of the time and still don't crash my systems.

I run mailservers and websites on my mac, mac os x hasn't crashed on me since 10.0!!!! I cannot even get BeOS to crash unless I install shoddy freeware.

What do you Linux/WindowsXP/Mac OS X crashers do to crash your systems???!!!

As far as the rest of the review goes... It has all been said. Sounds like a really decent distribution.

RE:who allowed this guy to review?
by Roedhatte on Thu 7th Apr 2005 19:31 UTC

The same guy that allow you to express your thoughts ;-)

Reason for $$$charging
by Eric on Thu 7th Apr 2005 19:43 UTC

The reason linspire is even in the linux business is to capitalize on the linux trend among new users who don't know how to install software.

How sad is that . Your OS is so difficult they charge for installing software. Hahaha. But they have made a profitable business model out of it. And other are doing the same.

If the new Linux install system were in place a couple of years ago and distros were based on LInux base then none of these 'charge to install' distros would exist .

And there would be more happy linux users.

Just wait for Haiku.

RE: I disagree ...
by anon on Thu 7th Apr 2005 19:45 UTC

[quote]
"A Note About The (Lack of) Speed:"

Its GNU/Linux and KDE , you probably have something not setup properly or too targeted for another system. Or you have a plethora of sub system running in the background who dont need to all the time.
[/quote]

I absolutely hate this excuse. It may be ok for Debian, slackware or gentoo users who complain about speed or stability, but this is Linspire. This is a distribution aimed at windows switchers. Therefore, they will not know what to set up, how to change config files. All they care about is first impressions.

When I boot my machine, does it come to life quickly? When I hit the "start" does it pop up fast, do apps load quickly? If this isn't present in a newcomer to linux distribution, forget it.

His machine wasn't beefy by any means (900 MhZ , 384 MB RAM), but it has enough juice to run Gnome (or KDE) at least. I've got GNome 2.10 on my Debian box, and it runs smooth as silk. Had it runnin no probs with Fedora RC-3. So, yes it may not be configured correctly, but considering the ambitions of Linspire, I put it on them, not the new user to get these initial first impression configuration things right.

anon (IP: ---.cvr.yorku.ca)
by Moulinneuf on Thu 7th Apr 2005 20:10 UTC

"I absolutely hate this excuse."

Its not an excuse , its a reality , Linspire dont have the same hardware support as Microsoft , none of the GNU/Linux distribution does , Apple goes about it a different way and as is own machine and spec , is computer did not come pre-installed with Linspire either. Whitout looking at the log and what the systemp output are there is no way to estimate what exactly is not working properly, and it could be hardware too.

"Therefore, they will not know what to set up"

Thats when support show its efficiency or lack there of .
you have a problem call linspire support ... Personnaly Linspire support is one of the best , still missing something IMOHO , but I am a real expert in that area ;-)

"All they care about is first impressions."

I think they whant there investment to work ...

"If this isn't present in a newcomer to linux distribution, forget it."

Most "newcomer" buy new computer or pay for the service to have it installed , in that regard Linspire is just like everyone else , there is almost never a support guy or place around.

"yes it may not be configured correctly"

And the solution is to change the setup ...

"but considering the ambitions of Linspire, I put it on them, not the new user to get these initial first impression configuration things right. "

I agree , but thats one Area where until from 10 years back on all machine are setup to run GNU/Linux smootly, until then GNU/Linux is a parasite on most other people hardware configuration.

The Machine are built for Apple and Microsoft.

RE: Other Linux Distros
by getagrip on Thu 7th Apr 2005 20:23 UTC

"You say that your computer is barely able to run DOS"

He did not say that the computer he installed Linspire on would barely run DOS. He said he installed it on the only computer he had that would run anything more that DOS. He even, for those unable to stomache full sentences, included a list of the system specs.

Rant about something he wrote if you have to rant. Not what you made up.

Paying for Software with CNR
by Jack B. on Thu 7th Apr 2005 20:39 UTC

It's frustrating that people continue to say that you have to pay for the software you use with Linspire. While it is true that they charge for the "CNR" service, you don't have to use that service. You can use what ever means you want to install software. If, however, you would like the ease of use and stability of CNR, they do charge for that. I sincerely wish people would understand that they are charging for the ability to install, maintain and update software from their servers but that this in NO way prohibits users from using any other solution to install software. Why is this such a hard concept for everyone to understand?

re: reason for charging
by Doctor Flaaange on Thu 7th Apr 2005 20:40 UTC

> How sad is that . Your OS is so difficult they charge for installing software. Hahaha. But they have made a profitable business model out of it. And other are doing the same.

Well if I can compile xchat for myself, or extract firefox then set up a soft link to it in one of the folders in my $PATH, it can't be that difficult.

re: excuse
by Doctor Flaaange on Thu 7th Apr 2005 20:42 UTC

> "I absolutely hate this excuse."
> Its not an excuse , its a reality

This is true. KDE 3.2 was running excruciatingly slowly for me on Fedora Core 1 a few weeks ago. It turned out to be an incorrectly configured route entry for a network card. As soon as I fixed it, it ran like a greased up rabbit.

whatever means
by Doctor Flaaange on Thu 7th Apr 2005 20:46 UTC

Apologies for the hat trick, but...

> You can use what ever means you want to install software.

Does linspire come with the development tools installed? I didn't think it did, but I could be wrong. ;)

@Dr. Flaaange
by DarkMavis on Thu 7th Apr 2005 20:52 UTC

There was a developer release of Linspire in the 4.5 days and I think they are in the process of doing the same for Five-0 which will include all of the development tools most commonly used.

Re: By Jack B
by Tyrone Miles on Thu 7th Apr 2005 21:49 UTC

Most of the people that comment on the C&R service are people who prob bootleg copies of Windows XP and won't pay for anything anyway. Cheep as_es.

First off you are not paying for the software you are paying for the service. The same thing you do when you buy any version of Linux. You are paying for the service of them putting the distro together for you and making sure it works, it's secure etc.

So when you pay for CNR you get services:

1. Software easy to install, with pages that give you details and screen shots
2. Software updates. (You get a bubble on your desktop that lets you know when software you have installed has updates. And the os also)
3. E-Mail tech support. You get email tech support for the life of your CNR membership.
4. OS upgrades. You get upgrades to the newest versions (Not just patches) For the life of your membership.
5. Software Library. You get a detailed list of all the software you have ever installed so if you have to go back and reinstall or you have to do more then one machine you can just select all and install all the applications you have ever installed all over again.

Anyway, if you don't like the above services then you can turn on Apt-Get (It's already on but you have to add or uncomment the sources in the Apt-Get sources file.) And then you can add any source you want and install software made for Debian. No problem.

Jack B is right!

Linspire T.V. Commercial!!!!
by Semyazza on Thu 7th Apr 2005 22:22 UTC

Hey there's going to be a linspire T.V. commercial
Today on Michaels Minute:
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_michaelsminutes.php

The link to the possible commercial:
http://images.linspire.com/linspire5.0intro4-6-5.swf

The link to the survey for the commercial:
http://surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=31243985499

CNR Good, Rebranding Bad
by John K on Thu 7th Apr 2005 23:51 UTC

I think that CNR is a good thing. If you look at the original FSF essays, RMS keeps reiterating that there's nothing wrong with charging for service, and encourages it.

20+ years of GUI computing on PCs has demonstrated, pretty definitively, that most programmers and sysadmins won't develop a simpler UI than minimally required for their own comfort. Nonprogrammers require more simplicity. Money has been shown to be a reasonable motivator, when the inherent joys of GUI tuning and testing have been less than compelling.

If there's any justice, within a year, another vendor will duplicate CNR, at a slightly lower cost. And CNR will improve. More people will be happier, and some sysadmins will have secure jobs.

The Linspire rebranding of popular packages is a bad idea. If anything, they should "badge" the product with "for Linspire" after the title.

One of the motivations for releasing free software is to have ones name identified with a popular product. "So and so of the X Project" just sounds so cool. Having the name taken away is uncool.

v Crashes
by Chris on Fri 8th Apr 2005 00:49 UTC
Good and fair
by bxb32001 on Fri 8th Apr 2005 00:55 UTC

Well, I have similar experiences. Right now, the "slowness" (application start up times, boot up) is tolerable and a bit improved from Linspire 4.5.

I don't like tinkering much anymore so I appreciate the "works out of the box" experience that Linspire 5.0 gave me. CNR? It's actually cool, especially for someone who is not as familiar to Linux. You can view the descriptions, search by categories, search by ranking(popularity or rating) -- oh, and that's searching, browser style.

They've said it themselves (Linspire) -- those who want a more "Linux-like" experience and more control should try other linux distros. They're targetting a specific market right now and I understand that. Interestingly, you'd think that I wouldn't be a Linspire user after a longer experience with Red Hat and Debian. I guess I de-evolved =) More likely is that I realized that there were better things to do with my time than tweak the heck out of my computer =)

Keep Shelling Out...
by CRCampbell on Fri 8th Apr 2005 00:56 UTC

...and I'll keep my money. I'm running Ubuntu without AOL now thanks to a ISP switch. Windows still uses AOL...oh well. My girl like it, but that's another story.

If you want to pay money for an OS/software, just stick with Windows XP home. It costs the same, there's more support for it, and tons more software. Why pay for Linux when you can have Windows XP? Come on!

:)

RE: Jack B and Tyrone Miles
by Lorenzo on Fri 8th Apr 2005 01:05 UTC

When many people discuss CNR, I find it bothersome that fighting still continues about Linspire's suposed, "charging for Open Source Software."

Now did anyone you purchase the lumber & necessary items to build your house and then actually BUILD your own house? Unless you're a licensed builder/contractor, the answer is no. The price paid for a new home has the cost of "labor" factored into the sale price.

Now look at the target market that Linspire is aiming their products at; the non-techie, casual user switching from MS Windows.

Should this person be expected to compile his/her own software packages simply to use Linux? Of course not! Nor would you expect someone to BUILD their own house simple because they want to live in one (no offense to Habitat For Humanity, here).

CNR is a service. That's all! They've made the process of compiling, installing and uninstalling s/w packages as easy as they could for the members of their target market.

Many of the points that both Jack B and Tyrone Miles mentioned are valid and true, in my opinion.

Linspire is selling a service, not the Open Source Software.

RE: Keep Shelling Out...
by Jack B on Fri 8th Apr 2005 01:29 UTC

If you think that paying $100 for XP plus another $200-400 for MS Office is the same to paying $59 (I believe what Linspire charges for CNR) then I would agree. For the rest of us that can do the math and don't have lots of spare cash, we prefer something less expensive.

RE: Does linspire come with the development tools installed?
by Jack B on Fri 8th Apr 2005 01:33 UTC

I don't think that they come installed but you can easily apt-get anything you want from Debian....assuming you want to do that.

@ JackB
by CRCampbell on Fri 8th Apr 2005 02:23 UTC

You can still use Open Office for Windows.

I'm speaking in terms of Operating Systems here, not all the other apps.

Choice!
by Michael_Valentine on Fri 8th Apr 2005 02:54 UTC

That's the key word everyone seems to miss! Don't bash Linspire for not living up to "YOUR" expectations, instead use what makes you happy, be it Windows, another Linux Distro, BSD, BeOS, MAC or whatever floats your Boat. Nothing is free, and Linspire has every right to charge for their work, even if most can be downloaded for what you call free. Again nothing is free, someone is paying for the bandwidth, time to develop, sending the disks or hosting the ISO's. There is no such thing as free when you consider all the variables. Linspire is a "For Profit Company" and has to charge money. How else will they pay for everything they are doing, the hard working and dedicated staff they employ, and the products they develop in-house. Ubuntu or any of the other so called free Distros are great, but only appeal to a very small segment of real computer users out there, hence the roughly 90% Market Share of Windows. The only way to overcome this is to make Linux as appealing as Windows. No easy task, but there are a few Distros out there that are doing exactly that. Let's keep focused on the task ahead, which is to end the market dominance of Windows. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but the constant bashing and Trolling about everyones dislikes of Linspire is getting old. Linspire is "Not Perfect" and never will be, but neither is Windows, Ubuntu, Redhat or whatever else you want to compare with.

re: Does linspire come with the development tools installed?
by bagdadbob on Fri 8th Apr 2005 03:59 UTC

If it is too difficult for you to click & run on GNU C++ or MonoDevelop or Gambas or whatever it is you refer to as development tools, then I would imagine that any development tool will be far to complicated for you to handle.

Linspire Fan Boyz
by CRCampbell on Fri 8th Apr 2005 04:17 UTC

You guys crack me up. Go ahead and spend your money--after all, it's your money. I don't believe in paying for GNU/Linux. I happen to subscribe to the free software view of things. <shrug>

:)

Linspire Fan boyz
by seakryan on Fri 8th Apr 2005 05:16 UTC

Well - sometimes you definitely get what you pay for.

Liked Review
by Anonymous on Fri 8th Apr 2005 05:51 UTC

You can't just say only good things about somthing, you also have to point to the bad. I've read every review of L5.0 that's come out and this is one of my favorites because it told me something other than "IT'S THE BEST".

I would like to see this person do a review of Xandros 3.

Whom wrote this?
by Caesius on Fri 8th Apr 2005 07:50 UTC

"Interestingly enough, my wife, whom is a Windows user by nature..."

Whom? Did he just use whom before that verb? Can't this *reviewer* get anything right?

< /pedantic rant >

Well Jeremy your hardware is to blame for the speed friend.
I have a Pentium 4 2.4 gig with Hyper Threading on one laptop and an AMD Duron 1.4 gig on another,and it is fairly spiffy! Even hybernation is 5 percent faster than Win XP and no lockups.
Although Mozilla 1.6 aka Linspire Internet Suite is a bitch.
Sorry your soundcard didn't work well. I have a soundblaster that worked out the box. I still think the developers should look into some things still(hear me you guys I'm an Insider too).
Most newcomers will buy the hardware with Linspire pre-installed or install on better hardware and have few errors. Linspire still is in it's infancy as a OS. Once we realize that we can understand it's flaws.
And you know I have to mention that Linspire can be many things to many people. If you're a newbie it's a breeze with CNR to get things installed,for the intermediate as myself I can install ANYTHING via Synaptic using Deb repositories. See at the core is pure Debian all the way and very stable(issues aside). It burns me when people turn away from it for oh say...Ubuntu or Mepis because it's a "true Debian distro". Ha!
Maybe,but so is Linspire.
In the two years running it on my laptops,I've had a pretty good time(no issues yet).
I'm glad you didn't bash it Jeremy unlike a few posts up there above me. Good job though to the fellow users and Insiders here who also stick to their guns as supporters 100 percent.
I think Linspire has grown and is a major thorn in Windows side. Once it's been perfected more it'll blow even more people away!
Good review and I am linking. :-)

In reply to myself...
by Linguin The Penguin on Fri 8th Apr 2005 10:09 UTC

Left out too that you should've looked up your hardware and did some reading on the forum. We could've assisted you.
To those who believe Linspire crashes that is no excuse to try and bash it to no prevail. I dare you try it.
His hardware is faulty and not supported fully. Linux hardly crashes period unless somethings very wrong.
Now Jeremy you showed it to your wife in that state of incompatibility? Good grief!
Unforgiveable! :-(

Another Linspire review...
by Anonymous on Fri 8th Apr 2005 10:10 UTC

So sick of it... it's all the same thing

RE : Idiot
by P-J on Fri 8th Apr 2005 10:22 UTC

If you think that paying $100 for XP plus another $200-400 for MS Office is the same to paying $59 (I believe what Linspire charges for CNR) then I would agree. For the rest of us that can do the math and don't have lots of spare cash, we prefer something less expensive.

You're clearly an idiot. Let's see why.

You're suggesting that Windows XP and an Office Suite is $300-500. You've clearly choose to ignore that fact that the very same free office suite is available for Windows. You compare Windows with MS Office to Linux with, say OpenOffice. Apples and oranges? The fact MS Office is clearly streets ahead of OpenOffice is besides the point.

For $100 I can get a better OS and all the software I can eat. I wonder what I'd choose...

Myth, myth, myth
by Sure on Fri 8th Apr 2005 11:02 UTC

Moulinneuf (IP: ---.160-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) wrote:
>>Its not an excuse , its a reality , Linspire dont have the same hardware support as Microsoft , none of the GNU/Linux distribution does [...]<<

Can we please get over this myth? MS Windows hardware support is a sad joke!

What MS Windows has and GNU/Linux hasn't is support by the hardware vendor. MS Windows XP Pro SP2 can't find it's butt with two hands - if you excuse this figure of speech. Just for fun, plug any reasonably modern USB device into your computer and watch MS Windows XP Pro SP2 notices the hardware but requests a driver CD. THIS IS NOT GOOD HARDWARE SUPPORT BY THE OS, this is good vendor support.

In contrast, most recent GNU/Linux distributions notice the device and properly load the according module - if needed at all. Most times your media is simply mounted, being it a camera or a MP3-Player.

I'm sorry if this post i redundant, but i'm baging my head whenever i read this myth. It's soo old and soo wrong.

soo wrong
by Sure on Fri 8th Apr 2005 11:06 UTC

Just like my spelling, sorry.

RE : Myth, myth, myth
by P-J on Fri 8th Apr 2005 11:13 UTC

In contrast, most recent GNU/Linux distributions notice the device and properly load the according module - if needed at all.

If a suitable module actually exists for that hardware. And then you've got to work out how to load it. Easy for you maybe, but not an end user. And don't whine about hardware manufacture support. Make a decent OS and it'll turn heads and get manufacturer support.

To Eugenia, and to the reviewer...
by P-J on Fri 8th Apr 2005 11:23 UTC

Also, I almost forgot to say: Thanks for yet another Linspire review. We're probably nearly into triple figures and they still aren't boring...

Yawn.

Linspire internet suite
by jim on Fri 8th Apr 2005 13:08 UTC

The reviewer has it wrong. The Linspire Internet Suite is a very, very customized mozilla-1.6 with the latest security patches, realtime spell checker(aspell) for email and html text box/area, email filters to auto forward incomming mail, and so much more. Once you use it you won't want Firefox/TBird

@Sure (IP: ---.netcologne.de)
by Moulinneuf on Fri 8th Apr 2005 13:14 UTC


"MS Windows hardware support is a sad joke! "

If we discard reality maybe , If we discard winmodems , windows specific driver from hardware vendors , the Microsoft hardware division , the Laptop that ship specific driver for windows and nothing else , the billions invested by hardware vendors to make there product work with Microsoft products, etc ...

"Can we please get over this myth?"

Yes ,learn the difference between Hardware support and hardware detection.

"What MS Windows has and GNU/Linux hasn't is support by the hardware vendor."

And you go on repeating what you call a myth , white elephant , elephant white ...

"plug any reasonably modern USB device into your computer and watch MS Windows XP Pro SP2 notices the hardware but requests a driver CD."

Thats not going to help under GNU/Linux ... And its hardware detection ...

"THIS IS NOT GOOD HARDWARE SUPPORT BY THE OS, this is good vendor support. "

Actually it is , the device is at least detected , but unlike GNU/Linux , Microsoft can afford to not do the driver it as hundreds of USb device that the OS will auto-detect , just have to look closely the lists with there Windows certified device. When the device aint auto detected on Microsoft , normal people , they blame the device , when a Device aint detected on GNU/Linux , normal people ,they blame the OS.

"In contrast, most recent GNU/Linux distributions notice the device and properly load the according module"

USB is a standard , its doesnt mean that your not missing some option that the hardware vendor could offer by making a more complete driver or module ( USB device can do and be a lot of things ).

"Most times your media is simply mounted, being it a camera or a MP3-Player."

Yes but most of the time the full option to interact with the MP3-Player or camera aint there.

There is still a good chunk of the new devices and peripherals that GNU/Linux dont talk to and that work will have to be done for it to automount it , unlike Microsoft who as add the device since its creation on the design table to see if it interact well with there OS.

When the first G5 came out of assembly line , the first to get some where Microsoft so that they could make office compatible with it , a lot of inside/oustide/direct Apple software developper add to wait.

Microsoft as still yet to ship a real OS for the 64 bits , but its what ship default with most of them or recommanded for use with them ...

Its not a Myth , its sadly an everyday reality. I dont see why Hardware developper dont just ship some GNU/Linux developper or the OSDLAB some of there Hardware when they are in design to offer a real choice. I did not mean I dont know why it is so , its because of Microsoft illegal and anti-competitive tactics.

none
by joe-toe on Fri 8th Apr 2005 14:53 UTC

Sounds like a reasonable 'short' review to me! Linspire seems to run very well on a few systems but just plain horrible on a lot of systems. Hardware support is a strange clusterbomb of hits and misses. Some newer hardware is taken care of yet older hardware seemed to get left behind and on other machines it is the reverse. I just think the amount of 'choice' that linspire offers is prettly slim at best but they love to use that as a major buzzword. Seems to me the only 'choice' you have is what they decide to give you! ;) But all in all I would say a true 'short' review of someones thoughts about the product which is a relief from the 'advertisements' of some of the other 'reviewers'! ;)

RE: Moulinneuf (IP: ---.160-37-24.mc.videotron.ca)
by Sure on Fri 8th Apr 2005 15:29 UTC

Probably we are going way off-topic here, but what the heck. I don't know what your first few rebuttals were trying to say, sorry. Hardware detection is a non-issue in this matter. MS Windows, GNU/Linux, both OS detect new hardware.

MS Windows requires a driver from the vendor to employ the new hardware, GNU/Linux most often can employ the hardware "out of the box", maybe not with all features, agreed, but this is besides the point. And i'm restating my simple argument again, in the hope you realize that i didn't meant detection but support-by-the-OS in the first place. Even P-J in his sad attempt to troll got it right.

MS Windows doesn't support hardware very well, vendors support MS Windows very well.

GNU/Linux supports hardware rather good, vendors don't support GNU/Linux good enough.

'Nuff said.

@ Sure (IP: ---.netcologne.de)
by Moulinneuf on Fri 8th Apr 2005 16:25 UTC


"Probably we are going way off-topic here"

probably a bit , but this apply to linspire as well.

"Hardware detection is a non-issue in this matter. MS Windows, GNU/Linux, both OS detect new hardware. "

Actually no , There is a lot of new hardware coming out and some is not detected or is detected as something else.
an OS wich is 3 - 5 years old ( XP , 2k , 98 , 95 , Mac OS 9 ) , will not auto detect something new that whas invented after its release.

"MS Windows requires a driver from the vendor to employ the new hardware"

Yes , but ( and thats my point ) some prefered partners have some of the driver included in the OS release , and there are list of such compatible and certified hardware.
New for someone dont really mean its new on the market or that its fresh of the latest assembly line.

"GNU/Linux most often can employ the hardware "out of the box" "

The one the kernel know about and who use standards yes , they can be employed , not all fully , sadly. And it might not looked that way but 6 month in GNU/Linux is like a leap forward of 2 years in proprietary models. There is still a good chunk of existing and new hardware that GNU/Linux will not communicate with or auto detect , thats due to refusal of the vendor to support GNU/Linux. Gnu/Linux is also updated a lot more then it seems on the surface and lets not forget the GNU/Linux community and company like Linspire who do a lot of work in bridging the gap.

"MS Windows doesn't support hardware very well,"

I have to disagree , Microsoft does support a lot of hardware very well , its just astonishing the numbers of new device and peripherals on the market. They also invest billions into making some technology more affordable and being able to be used by there OS.

The out-of-the-Box experience is something really new. And the driver supported system is a revenue stream for them too , having your hardware ( if your an hardware company ), supported and certified by there OS is going to cost you. And up until now there whas no real other alternative OS.

" vendors support MS Windows very well. "

Yes that they do.

"GNU/Linux supports hardware rather good, vendors don't support GNU/Linux good enough."

Again no , GNU/Linux support a lot more Hardware then Windows does , but sometime we could do way more.

Example : most people wil buy ATI and Nvidia graphic card from an OEM ( Powercolor , MSI , etc ... )That vendor include a Windows driver. Most Gnu/Linux vendor will detect and use that graphic card ( due to xfree or x.org ), again if its NOT a new latest card .But most people paid for a driver they whont use and keep on suplying fund to vendor who pay for windows driver.all the will if one try to raise fund for X.org or when Xfree whas acceptable , people say its not needed because there hardware work on GNU/Linux. We should ask for a refund on the price paid for the Windows driver.

I agree mostly with what your saying , but if noone pay or do the work or make the deal or start making GNU/Linux certified hardware , we are still stuck as a parasite on Apple and Microsoft Hardware.

Sorry if my poor english is getting in the way ;-)

none
by JohnTrool on Fri 8th Apr 2005 16:34 UTC

my fav quote

"Although the basic GNU/Linux system is free software, most of the GNU/Linux versions now available include a small amount of non-free software--just enough to spoil them as a way to attain freedom.But Linspire is in a class by itself; large and important parts of this system are non-free. No other GNU/Linux distribution has backslided so far away from freedom. switching from MS Windows to Linspire does not bring you to freedom, it just gets you a different master.
It is a shameful waste to take a big leap and get only half-way to the goal. Once society is ready to confront the temporary inconvenience of leaping away from MS Windows, it is just as easy to leap all the way to freedom."
~RMS~

Windows hardware support
by DoctorFlaaange on Fri 8th Apr 2005 16:44 UTC

Every linux distro I've tried can pick up my SiS onboard sound, LAN and my nvidia graphics card out of the box. (Mandrake even installed openGL drivers).

Windows XP won't pick up my onboard sound card or LAN and forces me to run at 800x600 in 256 colours (which is very ugly in XP).

I liked what I saw ...
by HelloWorld82 on Fri 8th Apr 2005 18:11 UTC

I triyed Linspire LiveCD, and I like what I saw.
I love the default theme. I love how it looks how it looks like then I login or logout, I also liked Lsong, and Lphoto. So overall, it was a really pleasant experience. I used linspire only a couple of minutes, because I "wanted to see how it looks like".
The product look a little bit like linspire rushed for putting it out... it feels unfinished.
so :
*Openoffice looks sooo ugly. It doesn't integrate at all in linspire, I felt myself very strange then looking to that ugly dark grey interface.
*What did they include emacs ? What the hell will Desktop user do with emacs?
*realplayer don't work well for me. The sound is sluggish

But overall the distribution looks really very nice ... I hope that their kde-mozilla-theme is under GPL, I would like to us it myself (a gentoo ebuild would be so nice ;) ).

Crashing...
by Ian Christie on Fri 8th Apr 2005 18:45 UTC

My girlfriend and I have identical Emachines running XP home and mine can stay running no problem for days on end but her's can't be left on even overnight. All she does is use OpenOffice.org, IE, Eudora 6.2 and listens to her radio station online using Real Player. I'm regularily running OO.o, The Gimp, Firefox, IE, Eudora 6.2, TSW Web Coder and a few other things.

$59 vs $100 is still cheaper and I don't have to search around looking for software because it is all in one place, one click easy.

Re: Tyrone Miles
by Roedhatte on Fri 8th Apr 2005 20:53 UTC

Thanks Tyrone,

One of my issues has been that I would have to use Linspire packages via C&R (which is IMHO too expensive - yes, I'm a cheap bugger)
I guess there's no excause for not trying it out now. Been using RH (still at RH9) for years, don't have time to fiddle with Fedora details anymore, I just need it to work....

hmm
by mattb on Sat 9th Apr 2005 03:58 UTC

ill add my voice to the hardware support thing. a fresh install of windows on my main machine will leave me with a useless machine. all my driver discs are quite dated, and the drivers included will have issues with newer programs. i need to go to each and every hardware vendors site, download a driver, install and reboot.

on the flipside, after installing linux, the one thing that doesnt work is 3d acceleration on my video card. that requires me to download and install one driver, and doesnt need a reboot due to the magic of insmod, and the ability to restart the xserver.

hardware support was once a problem for linux, but i havnt experienced it for years now.

RE: Moulinneuf (IP: ---.160-37-24.mc.videotron.ca)
by Sure on Sat 9th Apr 2005 08:59 UTC

I think, we are reaching an agreement here ;-)

Actually we are discussing two different points. If i got you right, you say MS Windows has hardware vendors as partners in development that often include their driver software in the MS Windows distribution. GNU/Linux is lacking this benefit - and i agree: GNU/Linux needs more vendor support, but not of the unfree (e. g. NVidia) kind.

What i'm trying to say, on a strictly technical base, is: in comparison between MS Windows "as-is" and GNU/Linux "as-is", GNU/Linux beats MS Windows hands down on the hardware support side.

I. e.: Imagine you have to setup a recent computer without having any ideas about the used hardware (and you are not allowed to open the box, no manuals, no driver CDs, no usable internet. But you do have a MS Windows XP CD and a generic (by that i mean non-specialized, the generic kind, we read about a few weeks ago) GNU/Linux CD. I bet that the GNU/Linux distribution will bring you further than MS Windows XP.

Now you may call this an unrealistic or unlikely situation, but it is not. I experienced situations exactly like that during my field-days and it happens more often than you'd think.

Anyway, i'm out. Thanks for the talk.

Linspire.... EWWW!
by Mav B;pcl on Sat 9th Apr 2005 12:40 UTC

Well, I am switching to Linux. I am switching to get away from Windows! Not to go to a Linux distro that almost mimicks windows. I mean, no advanced options! That is why I am switching... ADVANCED OPTIONS (and securitry of course).

@Moulinneuf (IP: ---.160-37-24.mc.videotron.ca)
by tobaccofarm on Sat 9th Apr 2005 15:05 UTC

There is a lot of new hardware coming out and some is not detected or is detected as something else.
an OS wich is 3 - 5 years old ( XP , 2k , 98 , 95 , Mac OS 9 ) , will not auto detect something new that whas invented after its release.


True,in order to format some SATA HD's connected to a nforce based mobo on XP i first have to copy the drivers from the vendor CD to a floppy,during install there's the notorious F6 option.Oops the only PC i have is the one i would like to XP on,bad luck.

@Sure (IP: ---.netcologne.de)
by Moulinneuf on Sat 9th Apr 2005 17:03 UTC

"I think, we are reaching an agreement here ;-) "

I think we where in agreement from the start , but that my communication skill where interfering ;-)

"Actually we are discussing ... (e. g. NVidia) kind."

I totally agree with your point , but I also disagre with your last sentence in it , until GNU/Linux developper come with a mature and similar if not superior at least equal solution to the e.g. Nvidia of this world , those need to be included, not necessarely as first option because we have some option , x.org, but realy easy to install.

"What i'm trying to say, on a ... hardware support side."

Yes , and I hope that others who read this all put it down in there minds and on paper , because thats one of the most forgeted and unknown big advantage of GNU/Linux and you got it examplified so perfectly that there is no better way to mention it.

"I. e.: Imagine you have to setup a recent ... will bring you further than MS Windows XP."

Another great point, but then again "no usable internet" , is also a big flaw and problem with the Linspire product offer. You come out with something which dont offer you the full power of what Linspire can offer with internet. Dont get me wrong you get a really cool and useable desktop , but your very limited in what software your going to be able to use , even with those on the cd. Its also why Linspire bug me the most , I cant reasonnably consider them for someone who as a computer but no internet. Thats a point I would like them to work on for there next release , they have the air force ( internet ) , now they need to work on there Land force ( those without internet ). Because sadly , not everyone as broadband , high speed or even internet access in this day and age.

"Now you may call this an ... more often than you'd think. "

Actually I am right with you on this point.

Thanks for the talk too , I came out of this with some new details that you provided and put into light that will greatly help me in my futur discussion.

@+

Some Thoughts
by jlacroix on Sun 10th Apr 2005 19:41 UTC

Linspire Internet Suite IS Konqueror. If you click on help, I think, there's something that says "about Konqueror". That makes it easy to tell the difference.

About Speed
by jlacroix on Sun 10th Apr 2005 19:46 UTC

I am glad that Linspire is fast for some of you, but I don't see how.

3 CD's worth of Fedora installed prior, and I got 1400+ FPS with glx gears. With Linspire, one cd rom worth of software, I was lucky to get 700FPS.

It's not about how I set it up, its all about how the folks at Linspire set it up. I didn't do anything magic with Fedora. Right after installing the nvidia driver, 1400fps.

With Linspire, I closed all the programs that wasn't necessary and was lucky to get just 700fps.

The speed decrease is not my fault, Linspire is to blame there.

I also noticed a VERY huge decrease in speed from loading applications between Fedora and Linspire, and I've not done much to customize either. Linspire is just naturally extremely slow.

I have to agree with the excellent posters in favor of Linux and Linspire. And as I stated as poster 39,it is STILL at it's infant stages as a reliable distro for everyone. As a poster said alot of hits and misses. If you dislike Linspire try a really close cousin to Linspire and spawn of Debian known as SimplyMepis! It is what Linspire is without the CNR and fancy interface.

RE: Some Thoughts
by Anonymous on Mon 11th Apr 2005 23:27 UTC

"Linspire Internet Suite IS Konqueror. If you click on help, I think, there's something that says "about Konqueror". That makes it easy to tell the difference"

hm..thats VERY interesting...cuz i always thought that it said: "powered by MOZILLA" at the bottom of the lis start up screen...
and if you look under about, it says mozilla multiple times...
moreover, LIS and konq look way different in linspire.....


btw, good review. i agree with the majority of it. speed is one of my few gripes about it, but its not bad enough to turn me off.

by Lumbergh on Thu 14th Apr 2005 16:53 UTC

Yes, Linspire does have the development tools