OSNews

I think that Linux will 'improve' Windows, but Linux will be the victor in the end.

Hallowed by thy vague article.

Eugina, did you read the content of the article? Ah, wait, before you answer--there isn't any.

The thesis is presented as: Windows wins, but Linux doesn't lose. Backed up by 0 data or even comparisons or even conjecture or even anything.

Author says:
"Show me charts and stats and benchmarks that prove Linux superior to Windows in every measure and I'll not argue with you. But no matter how much money and dedication is poured into Linux, it will never put a dent in Windows' mind share or market share because Linux is an operating system, a way -- and probably the best way -- to make system hardware do what it's told."

I disagree. There is nothing that Linux can do that Windows can't. There are many things that Windows can do that Linux can't, as well as many things that Linux can't do as well.

As for the hardware thing -- yeah, I suppose my X800 XT PE will get a nice FPS boost, my GbE network adapter will perform better, and my Audigy 2 will sound better. Bzzzzt! Wait ... Linux doesn't have good drivers for either of those three pieces of hardware. Stay with Windows I will, because it works perfectly for everything I do.

I disagree. I think Linux has the potential to leave a dent on Windows. This will eventually be done once Linux is absolutely ready for the market and there are more commercial software that will be available for Linux, not just Windows and OS X.

It all comes down to some improvements Linux needs, which have been debated a lot this week.

1) Create movement

2) Create unbeatable license

3) Create Software and improve them all the time and give source code

4) Begin Invasion and Parasite on APPLE and Microsoft Hardware.

5) WIN SOFTWARE WAR <<<< we are here

6) Move in as second solution on everyone Hardware

7) Start Making own Computers and winning more Brand name

8) Begin Freeing Hardware

9) Begin making free Hardware

10) Make own Hardware solution

11) WiN HARDWARE WAR

12) Move in on the kill on the remainder of the software world by buying up the companies to liberate the patents

13) Move in on the kill on the remainder of Hardware company
to liberates the Patents

Question : how can you expect a company running on profit to kill hundreds of thousand of group working for free on an idea and goal ?

The fun is yet to come ;-)

Linux and Mac OS X are driving a wedge into Windows sales. We aren't seeing a whole lot now but it is happening and people are getting more and more tired of viruses and problems with Windows. The more tired they get the more they will start looking for an alternative.

Both Linux (LinSpire - Xandros, etc) are ready for **most** Joe and Jane PC users. There is nothing in Windows (except problems) that don't work in Linux and Mac now. I'm not talking MS branded software. When I moved off of Windows I moved completely off of M$ anything. And I have no problems viewing, editing, and sending back to people.

90% of business computers could easly be replaced with Linux or Mac. Windows has and is nothing special. Once people realize the emporer has no clothes, which people are starting to realize, the market share for Linux and Mac will increase rapidly.

if it doesn't come preinstalled.

I have a dell desktop that windows XP fails to install on.

Linux distro's galore, no problems
Heck Windows ME no problems,

So if Windows is superoir Why can't it decet the PS/2 port on a Dell?

Linux will win not because of tech, but because MSFT has been forcing garabage down our throats that people are rebelling to any choice they can.

I agree - total flamebait.

The guy is saying that Linux' only role in enterprise is for legacy UNIX apps?

And I guess he hasn't heard of RHEL, Novell Enterprise/SLES or Sun JDS....

And Linux runs the web lets not forget.

Maybe Windows is more suitable for Joe AOL's desktop, but Linux is the only choice for serious server applications.

I agree - total flamebait.

The guy is saying that Linux' only role in enterprise is for legacy UNIX apps?

And I guess he hasn't heard of RHEL, Novell Enterprise/SLES or Sun JDS....

And Linux runs the web lets not forget.

Maybe Windows is more suitable for Joe AOL's desktop, but Linux is the only choice for serious server applications.

In Windows defense there are a couple server applications that only work on Windows that corporations have foolishly locked themselves into using.

Linux does not run the web. *Nixes in general run the web.

BSD fans might find that last comment presumptious to say the least.

I'm really tired about "Linux Vs Windows" topic, I love Linux because their improvements for me are better than windows.

But i respect those who choose Windows and i support those who work with Linux. Somehow I'll be always a Linux-man.

He raises a somewhate valid point in what is a platform. He seems to miss that linux is a complete platform as well. The only difference is that linux has a million competing API's while windows only competes with itself. That compition is a handicap and a blessing in Linux. You have the freedom to use what suits your needs best but you risk alienation if the API you choose withers on the vine. Much as windows is doing with VB6.
The move from VB6 to .net could be the real cincher for linux provided they unify the disseparate interfaces and super fast. That may happen with Mono who knows. But Linux as a "platform" could take off with if MS continues to drop old tech to continue to make money,,, which it has to.
But i have to agree the ariticle was a puff peice from a MS tech journalist guy.
We could throw back PPC and X86 as the platform "war" and confuse the issue even more with this kind of arguement.
anyway this is all goofy speculation.. The IT landscape changes every ten years or so anyway.. And always from out of the blue.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I have yet to see any easy video DVD creation software on Linux. Or music creation for the average non-pro musician. Or simple database (Access-like in simplicity) software.

I could be wrong, but I've looked at these types of software in the past and I still haven't found Linux equivalents. Until companies develop easy-to-use and easy-to-install software for Linux that you can buy off the shelves or download in a simple manner, I really don't see Linux cutting into too much of Window's market share. OS X maybe but not Linux. Not for a while yet.

linux is an open-source platform. you can't expect for linux as many commercial software as for windows or mac os x. there isn't a reason for commercial developers to develop for platform where 99% of users using it because of cost (I am talking about _desktops_, not servers).

I disagree. There is nothing that Linux can do that Windows can't.

Actually, there are many things Linux can do that Windows can't. Like be legally redistributed by users. Or be modified for custom use. Or be rebranded and repackaged by a company. Or be distributed as a LiveCD. Sure, you can make a LiveCD with Windows - however you can't use it and use the installed copy of Windows you used to make it.

Linux runs on anything, from watches to supercomputer. Linux can run on PPC hardware. Windows can't.

Also, it's not possible to easily set up a graphical terminal with Windows, which can be very useful if you want to reuse older hardware to add another workstation to your home.

I'm glad that Windows does all you need. However, what I fail to understand is why you need to put down Linux every chance you get. We know you don't like Linux, there's no need to keep repeating it in every OSNews article.

That's not reporting, it's editorializing and evangelizing. He's done similar stuff like "Microsoft let us down with VS 2005" and "C# not gaining acceptance" kind of articles. He appears to solidly follow everything Microsoft is doing for developers, but that has nothing to do with Linux nor end-users, which he proclaims to speak for now.

Technically, I agree that right now the end-user experience is not as good in Linux as it is in Microsoft. But it is close. And people are changing, computer users are getting smarter. Once more people learn about free and open source alternatives to Office and Outlook, more will switch to Linux.

And remember too most people have been using Windows XP for years now. Once Longhorn is released and people see that shitty pricetag, that will encourage even more people to switch to free alternatives. Hopefully Dell and other distributors will offer Linux right alongside Windows as a choice for your bundled operating system on new computers. If Microsoft blocks that kind of stuff, then they should be sued yet again.

I'm sure some of the rabid Stallmanists might want that, but most rational people don't. They just want competition.

Maybe Windows is more suitable for Joe AOL's desktop, but Linux is the only choice for serious server applications.

Of course, people are losing their time with Solaris, OS/400, HP/UX, Novell and other well-established server/mainframes operating systems...

I like Linux but too many members of its community are pie-in-the-sky (like the other guy on GNU domination, he must still be in the "high" from the student strike we had in our province last month).

95% of the world live outside the US. Commercial software is too expensive for perhaps 80% of the worlds population. In many countries US$100 represents a weeks(or more) pay for a physician or university professor.

It is quite possible that other countries such as China or India will develop non x86 platforms and commercial qaulity software.

In 15 years the US may be the last relic of Windows users and non-metric measurements.

Wow, these last days have been really one huge flamefest !!! ) I think the last time I saw this kind of controversy/anger/whatever around was a few years back, and back then I was really into it. Nowadays I just smile at it all, because I understood it's pointless to worry so much like this... I think Linux is here to stay (obviously) and in a couple more years will conquer all (I think it's just a matter of time, depending on the speed of Linux getting super-easy, it may take some more time, or not, but it will get there ).

p.s. - I loved Moulinneuf's comment, I bet this time will be knows as the Software Wars ehhehe

Linux could cause big troubles to the Microsoft economy, but Windows isn't killable. I could do with 3 different Windows, for example, which is exactly what Microsoft is doing with the super cheaper Windows versions. I think Windows is going to become modularized one day, and if it doesn't, it's because Microsoft will give big discounts on it, losing profit.

How is Windows(tm) a stable platform? In the last 15 years it's completely changed, twice. 3.1 wasn't an OS, it was a shell. 9x was an OS, that was utterly different from NT.

And here we are today, with systems that are running on a platform similar to Unix, (such as linux) which is 35 years old!

So, Windows is a server platform. Unix and *nix are not, and OS X and Java is, and so is Solaris and Java?
Does this mean Java on linux is different from Java on OS X and Solaris? I can understand reasons why people choose Solaris over Linux on large production servers, but really...


Oy, damn trolls employed as journalists...

Don't tell me the GIMP can replace Photoshop, or VI can replace Dreamweaver. It's like comparing Windows and MS DOS. This is being ridiculous. Printers won't accept anything but Corel files. Can I use the GIMP? The Gimp is fine to create a hobbyist penguin logo, but not a professional outdoor advertisement.

If he said C# isn't catching on I have to wonder about him. I've already heard complaints about .Net apps from people (specifically ATI's control panel). But yea, TMK c# has caught on quite well.
I think this guy is just a cooke.

"Linux doesn't have sales people,"
Novell.
" it is not ready for businesses, you can't use MS Office (without crossover office), you can't use Corel Draw, you can't use Macromedia and Adobe products, you can't use Quicken."
Yes, you need Crossover office for M$ Office. But Photoshop and Quicken both also work in Crossover. Quicken is not fully supported on it, of course.

"Come on, do you think regular users are going to use Linux and its great text editors? You're dreaming. Linux is good for programmers, students, servers, and sysadmins only."
What's good for sysadmins...well usually sysadmins are good people to follow to keep a good system up. I mean, it is what they do 40 hours a week... And um well, programmers do tend to know a little bit about computers, I mean not nearly as much as joe_user's do; but I'd venture to guess they can operate a keyboard!

People used to create those ads without computers you know, I think M$ Paint could even do it (although not as cool, and it can't save it in a compressed format). But yes, you could do some very neat outdoor ads in Gimp, just not as easily as you may do it in Photoshop. Photoshop is a very nice tool, so nice in fact:
http://www.codeweavers.com/site/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=8

Not as nice as perfectly native, but if photoshop is all you use ... buy a Mac.

Windows and Linux both succeed, to the extends that they succeed, for very different reasons. Only time can make an apples-to-apples comparison, because the future of the OS is too complicated and speculative for us to figure out with any reliability. Nor will time's comparison tell us what *ought* to have happened, only what *did* happen. In other words, Linux could whoop Windows butt in every category, including "being a platform", and still "lose". Or the reverse could happen.

Part of the comparison problem is that the strengths and weaknesses of the systems span categories. For example: which is more important, the ability to modify source code, or having ActiveX capabilities in the default Web browser? It's a ridiculous question -- they can't be compared. Yet one might "win" in a given situation, but "lose" in another.

The Empire Strikes Back (-:

Ok, to the guy who can't run his X800, try the new ATI drivers. ATI is realising they have a market supporting Linux and their driver development is starting to reflect it.

As for commercial apps like Adobe, DVD content creation software, Audio applications, you're absolutely right. I'd love to see Cubase or Nuendo on the Linux platform and moreso I'd love to see Nuendo on Haiku/Zeta. Linux isn't the be all end all but over the last few years we have seen it leave its mark on the OS world. Microsoft wouldn't have tried to make XP as capable as it is now without the likes of Linux. It can't be killed as well and the momentum is gaining.

Still it ain't ideal but neither is this world we live in.

Linux doesn't have sales people, it is not ready for businesses, you can't use MS Office (without crossover office), you can't use Corel Draw, you can't use Macromedia and Adobe products, you can't use Quicken.

...and I can't get windows viruses, addware, spyware, and malware to run on it either. Linux sux.

Linux runs on anything, from watches to supercomputer. Linux can run on PPC hardware. Windows can't.

Windows can run the engineering programs I need. Linux can't. Do I really give a flyind duck whether it can run on a watch or a supercomputer? That said, it does host my files quite well...

Honestly, I think both OSes have their own strengths and their own weaknesses. I don't see the point in shoving your preferences in somebody else's throat. Note that I am not targetting you.

[not related to your post]
Linux isn't going anywhere but neither is Windows. People believing that the whole world will unlearn what they learned to install Linux on everything should be aware that drugs are bad...

This article suffers from the exact same problem that 99% of the "why Linux won't make it" articles suffer from. They identify a problem, and fail to explain why the Linux development community will not be able to follow suit and rectify the issue. I'm not saying Linux will go on to take over the market, but please, put a little more effort into your thought process so it actually makes a worthwhile read, no?

> usually sysadmins are good people to follow to keep a good system up

No. I won't learn how to use Linux just because a little bunch of kids say M$ is evil and Linux is better. It is better for *YOU*, but pretty useless for the rest of use Joe and Jane AOL users. If I buy a cheap computer with Linux, the first I do is format the HDD to clear its damaged brain, and I install WinXP with all security updates and Norton Antivirus. This works fine, I can use all my favorite apps and I'm happy. Thank you.

If I buy a cheap computer with Linux, the first I do is format the HDD to clear its damaged brain,...

...and install a pirated copy of Windows XP if I may add.

Ok a little bit of advise. Buy computers preloaded with Windows, because the vendors get it a lot cheaper than you can. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you aren't just stealing it.

I don't know why you relate sysadmins to kids but that's ok I suppose. Anyway, I'm 20, please don't ever refer to me as a kid again. Not only can I vote, register rifles, and fight in the military; but as you seem to be so keen on pointing out: I'm also better educated than you. Unless you are a college graduate who can't figure out how to work his computer? Or you just really love AOL for some reason?

I'm not trying to be rude, just asking you to refrain from being disrespectful to me, and other linux users. And also to refrain from being rude to OSNews posters, this is not slashdot. Make fun of the author of the story if you want someone to poke fun at, this should remain a calm discussion here (even though it never does). So I apologize in advance if I have offended/insulted you. I do not mean to, but I often come off differently than I mean to.

That's fine about the Corel files. If I weren't a Computer Science major with no artistic talent I might even care . My meddlings with Gimp are always just for fun, and usually just involve touching of photos.

I really don't see how this is pertinent to this discussion. How many of us print outdoor signs? How many typical users print outdoor signs?

And like I said: Get a Mac .

When you enter the job market you'll see that your GIMP file will be useless at the local printer because they only accept Corel files. This is a standard and you have to live with it.

Apart from closed standards being the source of all evil, what kind of printer only accepts Corel files??

You don't have to appologize. The whole point of OSNews is creating polemics, questionable themes, argue with other people and eventually... Bring more traffic to click the ads. By the way, I am not a sysadmin, but a python and C++ programmer, I don't use AOL, and I use Gentoo as my primary OS. However I know what I'm talking about for the graphic design stuff. But creating polemics is good for OSNews because it drives more P pole.

"Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)"
Polemics Po*lem"ics, n. Cf. F. pol'emique.
The art or practice of disputation or controversy, especially
on religious subjects; that branch of theological science
which pertains to the history or conduct of ecclesiastical
controversy.

"WordNet (r) 2.0"
polemics
n : the branch of Christian theology devoted to the refutation
of errors


More religious wars are the last thing we need. Frankly, you come off as trolling not as bringing up serious pertinent points.

Do you think regular people and business men are going to use Linux, unless what they need is only access to the Internet to read news and read e-mails? Do you think they can have their work done? Linux is not adapted to that. It occupies a niche market for devs, sysadmins and programmers. Diffuculty of use, lack of linux lessons, lack of software, complicated, non-intuitive and ugly interfaces (Gnome, KDE, etc...) are more than enough to keep all these people with Windows. Only a minority of users are computer savvy. People forget it and think everybody knows bash shell by heart. This is plainly wrong you know. It's as if a doctor thought that everybody knew how the whole nervous system works. Only doctors and specialists. The same applies to software. And I don't know why Linux zealots say that people who don't use Linux are stupid. First, most people never heard about it. Each time I meat some one and asks me what I do, I say I program, and use Linux, they don't have a clue what that is.

None, I mean it: None of my friends and relatives have accepted to use Linux for almost 5 years now. I have showed them that they would be able to use GAIM, aMSN, Evolution, Opera, RealOne Player and all that, all of them say they really don't like it because it's ugly, they don't have their favorite apps like Outlook Express, Word, IE and all that, and because they don't know how to use it. No point insisting.

It is that simple!

"None of my friends and relatives have accepted to use Linux for almost 5 years now. I have showed them that they would be able to use GAIM, aMSN, Evolution, Opera, RealOne Player and all that, all of them say they really don't like it because it's ugly, they don't have their favorite apps like Outlook Express, Word, IE and all that, and because they don't know how to use it."

Hmmm, well that's weird coz I haven't had too much trouble converting most of my families PC's and many workmates PC's to Linux without much fuss...and they've been very happy ever since. A little tuition can go a long way. The problem is none of them even knew what Linux was until I told them about it. That will change with time.

As for calling KDE and Gnome ugly, sheesh. I find either of those are much easier on the eyes and waaaay more configurable to my preferences than the "Fisher Price" approach of WinXP...ech!

People really don't understand what the author is saying. Let me translate, from a technical perpective linux has limitations that windows doesn't, at least in the long term.
Take posix system calls, do you think linux will ever replace posix with a whole new system call api? why do you think asynchronous i/o sucks on linux and shines on windows? Do you think file system structures will ever change on *nix? A lot of people on the *nix side like to think posix and all the little things that have become immutable on *nix are perfect, but they are not and in the long run they will be downfall of *nix, regardless of windows and microsoft.

I have been able to be successful switching over my friend from Windows to Linux. However, its been in the context of he just got tired of being invaded from one thing or another. Then he used a would use a Knoppix cd to be able to use his computer again before having to reformating again. Then he wanted Linux on a dual boot configuration. Then something would happen to windows again and he would go to the Linux partition and then he started to realize that maybe he should hang out more in LInux. He first used Knoppix cd then he moved on to Mandrake Linux 10 now to Ubuntu 5.04. He just installed Ubuntu and says he likes it better than Mandrake but thats another story. He says he only uses windows for only certain programs but prefers after using Linux for awhile to use Linux more so.

When you enter the job market you'll see that your GIMP file will be useless at the local printer because they only accept Corel files. This is a standard and you have to live with it.

Standard my ass. Color print shops prefer Tiff or EPS (both open standards that Gimp supports). I have seen a couple shops take Photoshop files, but I've never seen one take Corel files.

Really...who cares who is a victor and who isnt.
All this OS war crap is petty and an inconvienience to real news or things to talk/write about.
Windows will be around for a long time.
Linux will be around for a long time...they both will co-exist and both will have there place.

I am a regular reader of Tom Yager's columns since I subscribe to the magazine. I think that he is too enamored of MacOS X to think clearly.

I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. He has found a new toy for his enterprise computing needs that's superior to the old toys (Windows servers). No argument here. But the world is not standing still around him, and not everyone will accept the cost/performance ratio of MacOS X server solutions. Or the vendor lock-in. The smart money now is getting away from vendor lock-in, which is why single-system companies like Sun are doing so poorly (yeah, I know they have Solaris for Intel, but the installed base is negligible).

Have a look at the -mm kernels. Their Asynchronous I/O is supposedly far improved.

I don't see how following standards is such a bad thing, even if you lose a little bit. Yes Windows likely has built in features that Linux does not; Microsoft is notorious for writing for developers before users (and people accuse OSS of being by developers for developers).

I really just don't see your point. I'd like to know how this applies to the real world, and how it scares people away from developing on these systems?

"When you enter the job market you'll see that your GIMP file will be useless at the local printer because they only accept Corel files."

Corel? Corel?! Corel what? Photopaint? Draw!? Ventura, ahem, Publisher? The "job market" must be pretty fragmented, because my local printers would laugh you out the door if you came in with a native Publisher file and wanted them to print it. Many printers today prefer PDF with all pre-press done. Almost without exception they take QuarkXPress, some accept Adobe InDesign. Corel... good grief. If there is a top dog it is Quark. Just how far are you removed from this industry anyway?

Business, specially big american companies, are locked-in M$ proprietary and incompatible technology, but it doesn't mean that all the companies and all the world are loced too.

Free software is a strong success in development countries and the oly factor favorable to M$ is one: lack of knowledge to install and configure Linux networks and machines and to develop software not using M$ or Borland development tools.

Typical people learn how to program using stupid books like "Visual Basic in 21 days", "ASP for dummies" and others. There are few people nowadays with brain to learn how to program without wizards and IDEs...

Linux needs "developers, developers, developers", even using bad languages like VB. M$ is successfull because it convinced developers to buy your developments tools (the perfect way to lock-in M$ technology) and make tons of commercial software above M$ technology stack.

I've long been a Linux fan since the Slackware debut, yet used Windows in some form since 3.1. Lately I think there has been a rejuvenation in Linux interest over a broad base.

For me it's been the lack of security and constant (sometimes un-necessary) updates with XP, and now the SP2 phenomenon that's causing headaches and disgust for the OS. When you buy something, you expect it to work. XP works but you have to wait over a period of years to get all the parts.

With Linux, you have an idea what you're getting. If you don't like one distro you can opt for another. You even get 'extra' parts for customization and optimization. And it's free. Install it on whatever you like, even different hardware platforms. It's truly universal and what makes it so popular for the hands on tweaker.

I've been inspired lately to try new distros and see the evolution. Yes I even ran OS/2 Warp for a period.. even that has a following.

He's pushing OSX with Java. It's a fairly good model. The best designs, are yet to be put on the sales floor however. And yes, one day, OpenDarwin might take OSX to a comfortable niche on the intel platform, if it exists as a segment as it does now.

But then again, I'm still holding out for J24Haiku. If you want to see something cool, with java though - check out Joss, which is Java built on top of oberon-2, which I think might be a migration of the older Jos project to oberon.

And no, sun doesn't do desktops. They could, if they had a java X server running a xfce (wow, gonx anyone?) in java, and full on swing metal widget kit, running on a java chip. yes, I know, pass what ever it is I'm smoking. haha

But that's if they did desktops. I know I don't do windows. And, I also expect MSFT to do windows(and thus, MSFT) in. Sorta like a collapsing black hole.


I like linux, and many other OS's, platforms and projects, because of what they are each trying to do. I think most of the work, is exceptional, and it's sorta hard to say anything bad about nearly anyone.

"Have a look at the -mm kernels. Their Asynchronous I/O is supposedly far improved."

Not really
http://lse.sourceforge.net/io/aio.html
at least compared to macosx iokit and windows completion ports (and even solaris event completion api)

One thing that has started nagging me recently is this idea about Linux catching up with Windows. I've been hearing it for a long time but it seems like with every release, Linux falls back further. And then I started thinking, maybe Linux is improving, but Windows is improving at a much faster rate. I started thinking back to 1994. Microsoft didn't have a TCP/IP stack and had DOS/Windows 3.1. Then I thought about 1999. Microsoft had Windows 98 and NT, both infamous for crashing all the time and being extremely insecure. The more I think about things, the more I appreciate how far Microsoft has come. Almost all Microsoft technology has improved by leaps (domains, WINS, IIS, security, stability, performance, scalabiltiy, SQL, Exchange, registry, .NET versus COM). My point is that Linux was ahead of Microsoft. And it is Microsoft that has come from behind and that has surpassed Linux, not vice versa. With Longhorn just a few years ago, and Microsoft spending billions on a 3d interface, scalability, security, file system, etc., I think the gap between Microsoft and Linux is just going to grow.

only if a leap takes 12 years...

In 2000, people said "Linux is ready for prime time and had catch up with Windows, and blablabla". I was one of those person at that time... maybe because I believed at something that was just an utopia.

Forward 5 years and I have come to realized that Linux or GNU/Linux is still just playing catch-up with Windows. I am sorry, but having a customizable UI or a colorful shell prompt does not make it as to be "a better OS". And 5 years in the software industry is like 30 in other fields. Still, Linux is just a "back-end OS" for file server or web server when not much user interaction is required. It just can't compete with Windows (or OS/X - now that a nice outcome of a modern *nix flavor) on the desktop.

Windows might not be the best thing for everything, but it sure is the right thing for 95%+ of all the rest, and this is out of the box with no need of guru-level understanding of the OS to do simple things.

The more I see and read about Linux and everything evolving around it, the more I am happy to have ditch it, and come back to the Windows world. At least, I can concentrate on the new technology, hardware, service that are coming out without having to worry if it will be supported or not, or if some smart guys will be kind enough to "code something" to let me experience it. We need to move on and stop re-enventing the wheel. Linux was a fine experience, but it did not cut it as it should have on the desktop. Please, stop believing that Linux will replace Windows one day: it won't happen.

No DVD simple DVD player

No webcam support or drivers for popular cameras

No DVD authoring software

No fast user switching

No easy Wireless configuration

No BlueRay/HDDVD support

Linux will always lag the commercial solutions in their support for emerging technologies. It is a good server but will never will be an acceptable desktop. I have used Linux for 8 years and have run Windows in parallel or dual boot and I have come to appreciate alternatives with each passing year. Dumped Linux for OS X this year.

1 - There is no DVD player because of patients and stuff like that, same with mp3s and propietry formats like real, and windows media.

2 - It should be up to the vendors to make drivers, it is nearly impossibe to make every thing work, without the help of vendors.

3 - There is dvd authoring software but it has the same problems as dvd playing.

4 - Who needs fast user switching, it wastes memory, with no real advantage.

5 - I havent used any wireless stuff on linux but all i know is that it is being worked on

6 - There are no hd-dvd/blu-ray drives to support yet, does XP support them, NO, longhorn will only support hd-dvd, and Mac / Linux will get support as soon as the developers have the drives.

Commercial stuff will normaly be better, that is why Linspire and stuff like that support winmodems out of the box. I dual boot between XP and SuSE 9.2 and use them both equally, they both support my hardware fully, I like OSX better than both XP and Linux, but the hardware is not cheap (although the mac mini is helping). OSX has good hardware support because there is a small amount of things to support. If IBM made a linux distro tailored for each machine they make, hardware support would be grat, but if you expect that a generic linux will support everything, you might be dissapointed.
I do do web-design and graphics on windows because i dont like The GIMP's interface, i dont like having 3 windows open to edit a picture, i want it all intergrated into one window.

"I disagree. There is nothing that Linux can do that Windows can't. There are many things that Windows can do that Linux can't, as well as many things that Linux can't do as well."

Windows can't supercompute with cluster's, at least not yet..

"Don't tell me the GIMP can replace Photoshop, or VI can
replace Dreamweaver. "

What are you saying? VIM can replace Dreamweaver, MS WORD, Notepad, textpad, edit.com, Visual studio, etc...

When you know how vim works, its your favorite editor for ANYTHING, from xml files to latex or php files.

We have a big web application that use XML layout and is 100% OOP. In this kind of project, Dreamweaver can't help you, VIM can.

Anyway Dreamweaver does'nt work on linux so I dont have to choose.

Linux is an OS, not an animal or a person, this makes it incapable of doing physical harm. Windows will only end its own use via its own incompetance. What the users will do after the end of Windows is our best guess.

Has anyone played the Harry Potter game? I like the part where you throw the trolls for magic beans.

I am old enough to know that companies can be dominant one decade and gone the next. Such is the way of things. Entropy sucks.

re: problems ...
By matt (IP: ---.a.009.mel.iprimus.net.au) - Posted on 2005-04-14 03:43:23
1 - There is no DVD player because of patients and stuff like that, same with mp3s and propietry formats like real, and windows media.

2 - It should be up to the vendors to make drivers, it is nearly impossibe to make every thing work, without the help of vendors.

3 - There is dvd authoring software but it has the same problems as dvd playing.

4 - Who needs fast user switching, it wastes memory, with no real advantage.

Install Ubuntu.

Run one script ubuntusetup.sh with instruction in the How To section of Ubuntu forums. Get all the multimedia support better full codec support than a Mac OS X machine out of the box and play your mp3s in Rhythmbox while watching a DVD in totem.

Fedora Core 3 instead? Follow the damn Fedora guide. Its not as easy as running one script but then again its step by step easy as pie to follow and run.

Webcam support is hit or miss but then again that is more of a hw support/vendor support issue I remember the dark days of Mac OS when vendors stop dropped support for hw stuff left and right before the first imac caught on again.

Fast user switching? In gnome that is already there. Its called New Login. Sitting on one desktop and the significant other wants to look something on the web. Hit new login and I don't have to back out of my programs at all. It just gives her a new login prompt and away she goes.

Wireless support? Restricted modules comes with Ubuntu and that supports a range of the annoying drivers. My Netgear works just fine. Network-Manager is coming along and could be better. The network manager for ubuntu handles it just fine sometimes when switching between lan wire connection and back to wireless it just takes too long for the system to figure it out.

"I disagree. There is nothing that Linux can do that Windows can't. There are many things that Windows can do that Linux can't, as well as many things that Linux can't do as well."

This could be true... Windows can do few thing that Linux does with CYGWIN. Ho and I forgot about VBA viruses...

In Windows, tell me how to:

- EMERGE (or apt-get or urpmi)
emerge mplayer

- Build your own kernel

- Choose between many Window Manager
gnome, kde, xfce4

- Run many tasks in shell
cp -Rf /var/log /tmp &
or
screen

- Use advance redirection
./someprog 2>& /dev/null

- Build a cluster

- true 64bits support (windowxp 64 is still beta I think)

- Install Windows on a Mac, a Xbox or even a Gamecube!

- Use VIRTUAL DESKTOP

- Choose between 50+ partition type (reiser, minix, etc...)

- Use ipv6 for you network (I'm not sure on this one)

- many others things

So is he saying that BSD is going to be a winner because it has Apple behind it. I guess in the grand scheme of things Apple really is a superpower compared to Novell and IBM, I should have sold that IBM stock decades ago before they folded up...

No DVD simple DVD player
"emerge xine-ui". One DVD player.
Now, try playing a DVD from another zone in Windows, or playing it on your TV-out or a monitor other than the primary. Suspiciously limited, isn't it?

Also note that the only version of Windows that'll be sold in the EU before long won't be able to play DVD's without extra software.

No webcam support or drivers for popular cameras
Personally I don't care, but I can see how it's a problem for some.

No DVD authoring software
Again, don't care. How many people seriously author DVDs? It's not a significant proportion.

No fast user switching
Bollocks. On my K menu I have a submenu for "switch user", which is more functional than Windows' - I can see what I'm switching to before leaving my current session.
Can happily swap once the screen is locked too.

No easy Wireless configuration
Wasn't that hard, but not that easy either. Could do with work.

No BlueRay/HDDVD support
Does anyone have a BluRay/HDDVD drive yet? Doubt it...
If you're trying to say that they won't have support because of some sort of DRM type setup, I'd rather not know about it. Anyway it wasn't overly difficult to crack CSS - the next one will probably suffer a similar fate.

Now, for the complementary list.

Cleanly and completely removing a program is nigh impossible in Windows.

Bluetooth has been an ongoing nightmare - it hardlocks every time I go near "My Bluetooth Shared Folder". Friend of mine has the same issue.
Having installed Bluetooth drivers etc, my phone completely refuses to sync using the provided software. KitchenSync works fine though.
And if you do get it working, try installing SP2 and having it blow the whole lot away.

A Linux computer won't get compromised within fifteen minutes of being connected to the Internet.

Linux doesn't nag me about paying for extra third party software like virus scanners.

Got e-mailed an Excel spreadsheet sans the .xls the other day. Konqueror isn't fooled; it still sent it to OOo just fine.
But I did get comments from the other recipients of it saying "We can't open this file". Despite it being made in a Microsoft product, Explorer had no clue what it was.

I don't worry about virii when opening e-mails. It's quite liberating; the omnipresent feeling of paranoia reduces somewhat.

KIOslaves; audiocd:// and locate:// being the current favourites.

Can load decent themes without having to swap into Safe Mode to swap uxtheme.dll.

I suppose I could keep going, but I think that'll do for the moment :-)

LinuxElite. I can't tell you how to do any of those things on Windows (or in linux).

But can you tell me WHY (as a general everyday user i.e. most users) would I want to do any of those tasks?

Linux Can’t Kill Windows...

...or so say IT journalists, because Linux doesn't have a massive corporation behind it to buy favorable articles in the IT industry rags.

Linux can't win because it is a UNIX/UNIX-like operating system - in other words, its a direct quotation, to a sorts, from the UNIX haters guide.

Linux's failure has nothing to do with UNIX, and everything to do with the lack of maturity in the OSS world, where developers would prefer to argue, bicker, and fork code when disagreements occur, rather than sitting down and discussing the pro's and con's of each particular implementation.

MacOS X still retains a sizable ISV base because of the very fact that Apple provides a conherient base in which to build applications upon. You know that there is one version of MacOS X 10.3 or 10.2, so there isn't the issue of different flavours - you've got predicatable release sechedules, *GOOD* documentation (GTK+ documentation, quite frankly, is shithouse - as for glade, overly complex idea for something that should be simple).

Windows will continue to lead, not because of technical superiority, but because it is the status quo, its not bad enough as to cause an exodus, so developers feel safe knowing its aways going to be around.

It is cracking to see so much ignorance about Linux distros world. You did not specify with Linux distro did you use thus you already expose your own ignorance.


Linux will always lag the commercial solutions in their support for emerging technologies.
What technology?

It is a good server but will never will be an acceptable desktop.
Obviously you didn't bother to try Linspire or other desktop oriented distros.

I have used Linux for 8 years and have run Windows in parallel or dual boot and I have come to appreciate alternatives with each passing year.
Which distro did you use to run for 8 years? One would assume that an user who run a Linux distro for 8 years would have a very much knowleged about other distros existences. It seems it is not on that case.

Frankly, I think an arguement could be made that Linux will never kill Windows. For example, since most Linux apps are OSS, they can be ported to Windows, but you won't see MS-Project or MS-Visio running natively on Linux.

This article, however, is completely senseless. I can't believe people get paid for writing such cr@p.

little stones can break any Windows unless it is bullet bulletproof.

Right, I've got to ask.... what does he mean when he says
"Businesses and organizations of all sizes need consistent, predictable, scalable, self-contained platforms for server solutions."
This is just drivel. Let's look at it piece by piece:

Consistent
So it does the same thing every time? That's pretty typical of any computer system...

Predictable
You can tell what it's going to do before it does it. Not sure this is really that big a deal, but Linux is no worse there than Windows.

Scalable
Woohoo, one of them actually means something! Oh wait... Linux runs more of the world's top supercomputers than any other OS. It's also making inroads into the embedded market.
Don't think Windows is going to win this one.

Self-contained
So it doesn't need anything from outside the server? Um.... a typical Linux install is happily self-contained.

Maybe he wrote something else that was actually meaninngful?
"The practical need to keep Unix around isn't rooted in nostalgia or misguided conviction."
No, it's rooted in the fact that everything else has failed. Windows as a platform is riddled with security holes and bad decisions. Mac OS was fundamentally flawed, and was happily ditched in favour of a Unix-based replacement. BeOS was great, but failed on a long list of non-technical reasons.

"Open source Unix, in which category I place Linux, BSD, and Darwin (the OS layer of Apple's OS X), is a 500,000-piece bag of Legos that comes with some drawings and a few models you can use"
Excellent! I loved Lego as a kid; maybe this explains why I like Linux.
Not sure what Windows would be in this metaphor; possibly a stuffed Tellytubby.

No DVD simple DVD player

That is the responsibility of the DVD manufacturer - there is already a commercial DVD player out there, oh, and Turbo Linux offers a 'legal' DVD with their distribution if you despirate require one that has been blessed by the MPAA.

No webcam support or drivers for popular cameras

Name the hardware you're having problems with. Sure, webcams can be a pain, but with standard cameras, 9/10 the flash storage will appear as a standard USB storage device, simply requiring you to double click the icon on the desktop and browse the camera like a standard device.

No DVD authoring software

True, but then again, if you were to do that, you wouldn't be running Linux in the first place ;-)

No fast user switching

And the benefits of it is? I have a Mac, and have NEVER used that feature.

No easy Wireless configuration

True - but then again, Windows doesn't fair any better - sure, they've got the drivers, but the realiability is another issue entirely.

No BlueRay/HDDVD support

IIRC Windows and Mac support neither.

With that being said, since neither has been set as a standard, it is a non-issue.

Windows is already losing in many markets. South America and Asia are already embracing linux and giving MS a reason to do some work.

I know one thing that I love to do in KDE that Windows has no comparable functionality for. Using the fish:// protocol to access remote drives over SSH as if they were local. Combine that with cert-based authentication, and you are moooovin.

No DVD authoring software

http://qdvdauthor.sf.net

I think what he meant was. Linux needs Windows type apps made in a the open sorce way that can compete with Microsoft's technology. Something that can compete head-to-head for example with Microsoft's Active Directory and exchange server and also to be able to compete with Microsot's future techs like Xaml, Winfs ,avalon,etc. I think novell and Sun saw this coming and decided to go the other direction to create this type of tech for solaris and suse. And what has red hat been doing other then charging alot for a standard linux OS?

Same thing happens to everything, and the media LOVES doing it, and will never stop.

1 - find the underdog in any given situation
2 - make a hero out of the underdog
3 - underdog becomes a buzz
4 - once the underdog is buzzing and everybody's proclaiming it as hero, start to seed doubt about it
5 - hero becomes decadent, evil, or isn't as good as they hyped.
6 - start at #1 with new hero.

Linux has it's niche and always will. Because of what it is, it will never be the dominant force in the desktop market. Dream on people. Just let people use whatever OS and use what you want. It doesn't hurt you.

Success is not from the superior technology winning which MS Windows clearly lacks, but largely the lobbying by MS to governments, the human networks they build up, and the contracts with industry.

Whether or not it is true I think that is good, one of the reasons I run GNU/Linux is because it's not a mainstream OS and because it's not like windows. When Linux becomes too big it's time to switch to FreeBSD, or something.

No DVD simple DVD player

False. Xine comes to mind.

No webcam support or drivers for popular cameras

False. Maybe not for your particular model, but the great majority of webcams works on Linux.

No DVD authoring software

I'll give you this one, this is an area that is still lacking, but then there's quite a lot of development in that area, so hopefully we'll be able to have a full Linux video editing/DVD authoring workstation before the end of the year.

No fast user switching

False. It's right there in my KDE menu. I can even switch to consoles if I want, which is neat.

No easy Wireless configuration

False. There are some good wireless configuration tools available, both for GTK and Qt.

No BlueRay/HDDVD support

There will be by the time the technology really catches on.

Linux can kill Windows. The rest of the world no longer wants to associate with American corporations. China for example is beginning to shun American products and I understand they are establishing their own technologies based on Linux. The same is true with Brazil.

Linux can and will easily capture the mainstream when corporations start spending billions of dollars in marketing on it. That's why Windows is popular. It's popular not because it has great technology, but because it has a billion dollar marketing team.

All Linux has going for it is grassroot evangelism. And even with that, it continues to grow in popularity so much so that Bill Gates considers it a threat. Read technology sites today, it's all about Linux.

Linux is more capable than any operating system on the desktop, it's just poorly marketed. Finally, much of the Linux community don't give a damn about market share or popularity, the reason they use Linux are much more profound.

Is it just me, or is this the most ridiculous article you have ever seen, worst is the lamers that actually come here to defend it! Oh Im belly laughing so hard that I'm making Santa Claus jealous! Oh hehehe. Come on, keep spreading this bunk, if that's what get's you to sleep at night, Ah ha ha ha!

I think there is a lot of missunderstood. Linux is only the kernel. Is something is about to kill windows, it is GNU Software ...

Standard my ass. Color print shops prefer Tiff or EPS (both open standards that Gimp supports). I have seen a couple shops take Photoshop files, but I've never seen one take Corel files.

I agree and second that. I have done this with gimp and other softwares. I found out what the printer supports, matched what was the best for the job and ran with that format. I created the image (in layers in most cases) and sent it to him in draft, pdf, and file format. He sent back a test batch of 50 copies and asked if it worked.

I have never sent one back. For those interested, we have in the Milwaukee, WI area, Minuteman Press. They are easy as hell to deal with and to say that only Corel is supported is hogwash. Photoshop is what they reccomend but admittedly their software can handle just about all formats.

Anyone that has trouble should find either a new printer or learn to ask questions better.

That was a LOT of words without actually saying anything. I feel dumber for having read it...

I agree with his intent, and I applaud his enthusiasm, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what the duece that article was about.

>>but I have yet to see any easy video DVD creation software on Linux.
Mainactor is a very capable piece of software, i think it can even create DVd, but its not free. There are lots of goods articles on creating prof. DVDs under Linux with free tools, google it.

>>Or music creation for the average non-pro musician.
Wired, Rosegarden, Adour, etc. There are a lot of very good
music application (pro/semi pro) with nice and easy interfaces too.

>>Or simple database (Access-like in simplicity) software.
Rekall, Kexi, Gambas, PgAcces, hbasic, there are lots of free software solutions to build gui front-ends (sort of like access) for your users.
A total Access replacment is prob. not available but with he above tools (and there are lots of more) you can make database driven applications in minutes.

Cheers.

I agree with his intent, and I applaud his enthusiasm, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what the duece that article was about.

If I'm not mistaken, he said that because you can take apart bits of Linux, it isn't a standard. And because it isn't a standard, you can't just drop in software, which is what businesses want to do. I find this assertion very odd, as if he has never built a system by calling for apt-get. I've found that the ease of getting more software onto Debian and other Linux based platforms to be far greater than on Windows.

The Linux/Windows comparisons are quite annoying, because they all miss the point by trying to put Windows and Linux into exactly the same domain. I mean, it is like comparing planes with cars. Both have their advantages/disadvantages, but you cannot objectively say cars are better than planes or planes are better than cars without talking about the situation where you want to use them.

I think the windows domination might become less when the cell processor comes... if that thing can really do what sony and friends say it can... then it could be a very very nice piece of competition for the intel CPU's and knowing microsoft.. and sony relations.. sony wont release any info regarding cell to microsoft.. because of the upcoming XBox2 and PS3 war.. and because of that.. microsoft might not be able to make a version of windows ready for it by the time cell goes desktop (and IBM said it will probably happen) and linux like showed with the 64bit cpu's that its faster when it comes to adapting and new releases then microsoft with windows XP..
so I think that might help a lil

Show me charts and stats and benchmarks that prove Linux superior to Windows in every measure and I'll not argue with you.

Ok. The above is [i.e. narrowminded "professionals" who genererate "bad" pictures about Linux which "non-professionals" will tend to easily believe] what can make Linux not become greater.

Linux is in very many things "better" and "superior" to Windows. But - as we just spoke about this topic witha friend of mine the other day - these things can not be easily described to Windows-people, who ever just used Windows, don't think on broad terms when talking about computers or operating systems, they just see it as a tool to browse the net, to read the mails. And they can not easily be convinced or made to understand that some other OS is better, becayse in most of the cases they just will say that why would/could/should be anything else better than Windows since they can just easily do the things they do (clickety internet clickety outlook clickety bonzy budddy or whatever).

With people who know a bit more about computers and operating systems, enough to understand some of the concepts aorund them, can be a bit more easily talked into trying other things, like a Linux distro. But still, it requiers a specific amount of knowledge to be able to recognize the benefits of using a Linux system over a Windows one. If their capability only goes to the point of clickety-click-why-doesn't-look-the-same than they most probably won't see and understand where Linux can be beneficial to them.

Thing is, most of computer users these days (I guess it's probably over 90% but I have no numbers to prove that) are people who don't exactly have a clue about anything computer-related besides word-explorer-outlook and the power button. Please don't take this as offence, it wasn't intended to be that, I just see things this way. And most of these people won't switch because somebody tells them that Linux is better in some way. A marketing machine like MS has is a very hard opponent to fight among such crowds of people. If not impossible. I certainly don't have high hopes regarding the proliferation of Linux among them. WHich is a sad thing, but I fail to see a real solution.

and unless you stray too far from the rule book, everything you create will interoperate with everything others write for Windows

Ok, again, foolishness shall rule. I always tend to bang my head into some very thick wall when someone comes up with the junk argument that windows is the solution for interoperability: be that filesystems [wide laughter it is that I hear ? oh well], databases, networking, file and media formats, and I could go on and on.

Linux and Windows don't compete.

Yes that is true. They don't compete. The only thing that goes on is MS trying to exterminate anything that is/could be/could ever ever become a threat to anything MS or Windows-related. Nothing can proce this better than the dozens of "objective" "comparisons" of Windows and Linux. Yes, great drops of useless junk, if only they could be named at least "junk", but I guess that's a too pretty name for them.

There is only one platform that can stand toe-to-toe with Windows, and that's the combination of OS X and Java.

:) Ok, I have to smile here. No, not about what you think First, the guy says Linux s*cks big time and is no competition. Than says Apple OSes (I guess future releases will be even more better) can compete. Right, OSX has nothing to do with its linux foundations, right ? Oh, wait... Than he mentions Java after he talked about Windows being the compatibility and interoperability king Like saying my car is the best in the world and then an Aston Martin Vanquish comes by. Not that Java itself would in any ways be like an AMV

I agree, Linux can't. But ReactOS could...

This war between Linux and Windows is getting very old. Why not just leave it as it is? If people want to run Linux, fine! And if others prefer to stay with Windows, also fine! Lets not forget OSX, switcher seem to be real happy with this OS to.

Why bitch and wine all the time about this or that? Just for the fun of it? So please, stop this insaine war, just go do what you like to do and that's it.

Does it have to?
The greatest enemy of Microsoft is Microsoft.The longer they postpone Longhorn the more uncomfortable all depending on them become.Selling Longhorn will be very tough,unless people get it bundled as usual.Itstead of wasting precious time and energy we should once and for all focus on what's important and for gods sake move on.Lets try to eradicate all negative food for thought they can come up with.For instance the so called fragmentation.In my opinion it's not the sheer amount of distributions that would give an wrong impression of fragmentation but the various ways of dealing with install.For third party firms to feel comfartable with Linux we should unite in developing an solid install framework (like mandriva smart,gentoo emerge,debian apt-get) that can handle all the mainstream package formats,repositories,installing from source,knows various distros environmental variables(icons,menu-items) etc,and stick to it.So we have two basic but vital items:A kernel and a united package manager framework,the rest is up to the various distros to work out for themselves.This way a third party only has to conform with the united packamaner specs and can begin to develop quickly for a lot of platforms.If this gets momentum you will see a lot of serious distros join force.

the lack of drivers for bleeding-edge hardware.

Well, this isn't a problem Linux has to solve (whoever is Mr. Linux). Hardware vendors have to write these drivers and ship them on their driver-CDs. Installation shouldn't be that hard for the standard customer as Gnome (KDE?) has an autorun-option like Windows, too. So you just have to insert the CD and the installation begins (after the enter-root-password-prompt). This is the only big problem Linux has. Hardware vendors get already on it. It is a very slow process, indeed, but it is processing. And when there will be "many" hardware vendors offering and shipping Linux-drivers for their hardware, then this problem is solved. Most of these vendors will have to provide drivers for Linux, too.

Every other "problem" Linux is said to have doesn't exist. Of course, there are applications missing. But these apps are very special ones. Most of the standard users don't need them. Photoshop? Ha! Experts use Photoshop for their job and most of them use Mac. So what's the deal? Gimp has more options for standard users than they will ever need. Outlook Express? There are better choices on the Linux-Desktop. Internet Explorer? Thank god, there isn't one for Linux. Burn CDs? Works perfectly. Even Nero exists. Winamp? There is XMMS or Rhythmbox or Muine (don't know what exist on KDE). Watching DVDs? Xine could do the job, although deCSS isn't shipped with the Linux distros I know. But there is a commercial DVD player out there waiting to be shipped with DVD-Drives. Hey, vendors! Ship this f*cking app! Watch your holliday pictures? No lack on these apps. Rip CDs? Works perfectly. Use Jabber, MSN and that stuff? You will not miss anything. Office stuff? Openoffice.org, I say. Or use another Office-System like Gnome-Office. Everything is in place and works very good. No problems, even not with MS-Office-Files.

The apps are all well designed. Every user can handle them, even the most dumbest on earth. I think, Linux is already ready for the desktop market. Every desktop-aspect is solved. The only problem is the lack of hardware drivers. And if this chapter is closed, then will Linux rock. It will not overtake the market. This isn't the goal. But there will be a lot more Linux users. That means, there will be a greater market. That means, there will be more (commercial) software. And thus, more users.

linux is an open-source platform. you can't expect for linux as many commercial software as for windows or mac os x. there isn't a reason for commercial developers to develop for platform where 99% of users using it because of cost (I am talking about _desktops_, not servers).


I think there is a flaw in that line of reasoning.
If a company use Linux to reduce cost of the OS, there would be more money in the IT budget to buy software other than the OS. This applies to serverss as well as desktops.

The reason people doesn't use Linux on the desktop is not primarily cost, but rather that their favorite program is not yet available. The situation was the same on the server side 5 years ago.

The server migration was merely from one propriatory Unix dialect to the free Linux dialect, meaning that the administration costs would be about the same, the only real gain was lower licence fees and to some extent cheaper hardware.

The incentive to switch to Linux is even bigger for the desktop. The administration cost of a correctly installed unixlike system is lower than that of windows. (you need fewer sysadmins).

So the decision for a software company not supporting Linux on the desktop is a bit of a chicken race. They wait as long as possible. They don't want to be that company that provides application X that never will be sold as their customers also would need application Y from some other vender ported before they switch to Linux.

The problem with that strategy is that a lot of free software is developed to fill these gaps and the free toolkits gets more and more powerful, so by not entering the Linux arena they give room for future competitors.

And guess what! The toolkits used for Linux desktop development are getting better and better at being cross platform. The gtk toolkit is now resonably good on windows,
the QT toolkit is now available with a GPL licence on windows, mac, and X11 is also very mature. This means that we can expect to see applications migrating from Linux to windows. This is how Linux is going to invade the desktop. After all who will want to pay the MS tax, if all your apps or good alternatives are available on Linux as well.

The interesting thing today is not really if your run a free OS but if you run free applications. As more people realize that applications is the key to access mission critical data they are less likely to trust third party with too be the only ones in control of the software needed to access it. After all, who knows what happens when your software vender goes belly up. Governments have similar reqirements. They need to stay independent of foreign sofware industry in case of war, not to mention the democratic aspect.

All in all, not porting sofware to Linux could be a really bad strategy in the long run.

Tom Yager is a complete moron, probably funded by M$ to write this garbage. Let me tell you something, Windows wins amongst half-brained dudes that can't figure out how to act if they don't
see a clickable menu, that equals to about 90% of population that use computer for their daily work. BUT in the server market?? c'mon
it's only a matter of time when Linux will be installed on most of the world's servers. You better start learning if you don't wanna loose your job.

still think the whole MS vs Linux vs Apple vs ......
to me. its all opinionated.
they all work.
you can get them all to work well.
you can make them all stable.

its all one persons opinion on which is better..

some people like the extra challenge running linux.
some people are safe with Windows
some people like the easy of use of os-x

all opinions..they all work..why bitch and moan because your opinion differs then some elses..

One thing that has started nagging me recently is this idea about Linux catching up with Windows. I've been hearing it for a long time but it seems like with every release, Linux falls back further. And then I started thinking, maybe Linux is improving, but Windows is improving at a much faster rate.


Both improves, but at different areas. Look at the Linux desktop five years ago, and that of modern desktop oriented Linux distros like e.g. Ubunto today. The Gnome desktop happened in just a few years, and now they are polishing it.

In a way Linux being a Unix clone was a more mature, from day one than windows. So its no wonder if Microsoft have done some catching up on basic stuff like multiuser capabilities, security and other base feature of the OS.



With Longhorn just a few years ago, and Microsoft spending billions on a 3d interface, scalability, security, file system, etc., I think the gap between Microsoft and Linux is just going to grow.


You are going to see similar things on Linux, perhaps even sooner than in Longhorn.

But before we start having wet dreams about the new nice desktops of the future, perhaps we should ask ourselves: How will they help us improve our business. Will a semi transparant windows or 3D desktops make it faster to send an invoice, will it make it easier to write sales letters to my customers. I think not. This is the biggest problem for Microsoft right now.

Another problem is that the market is getting more and more service oriented and from traditional point of view this is something that Linux venders traditionally are better at. After all they have never been able to sell their OS at high prices.

that's just FUD. mainly because after stripping all the buzzwords off you get this:
"linux can't replace windows because it's just a kernel and not a full operating system". (I think, you can never be sure about the point opf articles like this, even when they have one.)

didn't we go ove this? linux is a kernel, all distros of GNU/linux are OSes. kafish?

Uh, no offense Joe, but I use Windows and The GIMP for a ton of different things. My grandmother uses it to touch up and arrange photos and logos for a monthly newsletter she contributes to for local Navy vets. The GIMP is a pretty versatile program, and I haven't had a need yet that hasn't been satisfied by it (nor has anyone else I've talked to who has used it), so I don't think that argument holds much water.

Who wants to kill Windows! You should always have rivel. It keeps u r feet on groud. Also the compitation is helping technology to move forward. Most important open source theory never says kill anyone. So live and let live!
Windows helps Linux show benchmark to know where it stands! and same vise versa.

Linux wont kill Windows, microsoft will commit corporate suiscide, (from shooting itself in the foot too many times)

thats right, I really hope that none gets killed....unlike some one tracked minded persons that feel that we would all be better with a single dominant OS. Hello....wake up.
The more competition there is the better for us when it comes to stability, performance, and looks.

@Uno Engborg:
Good post. Interesting.


@matronyx: The problem is there is not enough competition, because too many % of users use Windoze compared to Linux users, MacOSX users, Beos users, ...

Open source Unix, in which category I place Linux, BSD, and Darwin (the OS layer of Apple's OS X), is a 500,000-piece bag of Legos that comes with some drawings and a few models you can use, build on, or tap into as references for your own creations.

Actually, it is Windows the Lego OS. Let me explain. I install XP on my box. OK. I reboot. First, I need to find and install drivers for my graphics card. Reboot. Then for my sound card. Reboot. Then I buy a printer, I need to look for the correct drivers and install them. Reboot. I buy a scanner -> need to look for the drivers (sometimes they don't even exist for XP). I buy a USB key (mass storage) -> drivers.
ever done the driver hunting on HP.com, ATI or nvidia.com ?

Under Linux : I buy a distribution -> it detects my hardware and installs the drivers automatically. A printer or a scanner ? I go to a Config center, which downloads and installs for me the correct packages, without even knowing their names. I buy a USB mass storage device ? I plug, an icon appears. I buy a device that has a kernel module ? I plug it, then hotplug/udev loads the correct driver. No hassle, no reboot, this is done transparently.

I am sorry, but Windows is not less a Lego when it comes to hardware support.

I am sorry, but Windows is not less a Lego when it comes to hardware support.

Funny how people pick on the weakness of an OS, proves that their OS can do it better and that magically makes the entire OS better.

So what? I'm a Windows user and I agree hardware 'installation' is better in Linux.

As for the other 99% of things, Windows is better. You just choose to ignore those.

If you can, buy a clue.

Will a semi transparant windows or 3D desktops make it faster to send an invoice, will it make it easier to write sales letters to my customers. I think not.

No that will keep the hardware vendors happy and better performing hardware needed.

Windows will kill Microsoft...

Commit sudacide...

Bill will hand himself with help of Balmer...

RIP

As far as I know, it is the author of the article who used the "Lego" argument. I wanted to demonstrate that was false. This news is about the content of the article, isn't it ? Or maybe you have not read it and just decided to be biased ?
Now for the 99% of things, I would not say Windows is better. Linux is at least equal to Windows when it comes to 99% of tasks. Or have you better examples ?

I agree with the author that Linux won't kill Windows even though I use Linux. I am tired of the rabid Linux attack dogs. This pack tears to pieces anybody who dares to criticize or point to any negative aspect of the current state of Linux. Anybody that runs foul of this pack is a moron, an idiot, ignorant, misinformed, paid by MS, or any other such BS. This pack however will slavishly agree with any other piece of garbage that praises Linux no matter how misinformed or lacking of corroborating data it may be.
My fear is that the growth of Linux will stall if somebody does not manage to muzzle this pack. Linus and co. need to start a campaign that emphasizes that abusing people that do not agree with your point of view is *not acceptable*. Companies and regular users interested in Linux are turned off by fanaticism. This is a big problem, and the Linux community needs to come to grips with it.

You're soo right! And you get the same result from Mac users...

You can't say anything bad about Linux or you get flooded by flame replys. This is realy not the good way to make Linux better...

Linux will ultimately surpass Microsoft for one reason and one reason only. That reason is the most powerful word in advertising. You just can't beat "FREE", no matter how hard you try. If Linux remains free and the other platforms continue to have an associated cost, eventually the functionality between the platforms will minimize, but one will be free and the others will have an associated cost. For the majority of the people in this world, the free platform will be good enough.

I currently run a dual boot box w/ SUSE 9.2 and Windows 2000. Linux is used for everything from surfing the net to programming. The only time I "need" Windows is to play network games w/ my son (ie Age of Empires). If high quality games would be ported to Linux I would never be forced to use Windows. For me it is all about games. I miss Loki.

I have been re-reading the article, trying to figure out what Tom's up to.

Tom says that Linux is an OS, and not a platform.
He also says that Windows is a platform.

Then Tom says that because linux (and *nix) isn't a platform, it can't kill windows, which is a platform.

Further on, Tom does some more explaining.
He says that an operating system is something that you add device drivers and API's too, and a platform is something you add Applications onto.

So what he is saying is the windows already includes API's and device drivers, and that's why windows is a platform.

He even goes so far as to say that developers aren't going to use linux, because they waste all their time creating new API's and device drivers, instead of writing applications.

Tom keeps on going and going.
He says that the only option developers on linux (*nix) have, is to pick from the hundreds and hundreds of API's and device drivers. He then states that because Windows only has 1 API / platform, it's easiest for a developer to write to windows.

Earlier in the article, he stated that "Businesses and organizations of all sizes need consistent, predictable, scalable, self-contained platforms for server solutions. Windows wins."

Basically, 'businesses need a platform, windows is A platform, so it wins'.



I hardly agree with anything he says.

First of all, let me start off by pointing out what I noticed about linux, which is slightly related.
Smaller companies that don't have an IT department, or even a system administrator are not yet seriously considering linux.
They can't support their own systems, they need a contractor/consultant to do it for them. Maybe in their local area one out of every 1000 consulting companies mention that they will support linux.
Also, like one other poster said, if all they know is 'point clickety point lookout express', then they don't know enough to know about benefits of linux. Heck these people get loaded up with 1000 pieces of spyware and all they know is that their computer is running slower. They don't have to ever fix it, they make an intrepid technician do it. But then they still get to pick which OS they are running.
In fact, it is larger businesses that get crushed by mass mailing worms. Smaller companies might not have exchange server and outlook, and for whatever reason, they are not so hugely impacted by a mass mailing worm. They usually only have dial-up connections, and that pretty much chokes any mass mailing worm to death.

Larger companies have tons of support staff. There are a lot of people there that know what an immense support burden windows is. They are at least willing to explore ways to support that burden.
They also have large programming staffs. If they decided to develop their application to run under linux, they could do it. It is true that they already have spent a lot of money to hire and train windows programmers, so there has to be a a good payoff for them to switch, but the truth is that the option is there for them today.



Now back to Tom.

He neatly ignores Novell. Now there is a company that has a platform by his own definition.
They supply a kernel (2), desktop, API's, messaging, servers, middleware, netware, zenworks, probably more.
They can even re-use the large pool of programmers that have learned VB and .NET with Mono.

IBM also has a huge enterprise software suite. Middleware, messaging, you name it.

Even ignoring Novell and IBM, while there is more than one API, most of them can be ignored, and you can produce cross-platform code by choosing from 3 or so common Development Suites.

Sure there is flux in the API's, but if you survey Windows developers, they are going to be the ones to tell you that there is as much, or more flux in even the windows API's and programming languages.

Additionally, much programming is moving to higher level languages like python, php, java, etc, etc.

So then at the end Tom points out that his whole purpose was to make it look like linux has no chance against windows, and next week, he is intending to point out that windows has no chance against OS X and java.

Duh, like java doesn't run on windows or linux, or symbian, or palm, or windows CE?
So even if you think java is the way to go, what's the point of which Operating System or platform you are running. It wouldn't even matter.

Tom isn't discussing Joe and Jane AOL at this point. I have been trying to convert windows users to linux, and so far I have not found a linux distro that I am comfortable switching a halfway knowledgeable windows user to. I have successfully converted 1, or maybe 2 home users to linux. I would like linux to make some strides in taking the best of linux and adding some of the features from windows that are not yet working as well in linux.

But those will come with time. Those will come after more businesses start using linux.

So really, Tom is just off on a tangent. You can't seriously believe that development on linux is all doom and gloom.

Matt

Linux is already making huge inroads on the desktop market and according to both Gardner and IDC research the percentage of Linux desktops is estimated to reach between 15% and 20% by end of 2005. According to the latest studies the Linux market is among the fastest growing markets and is projected to exceed $35.7 billion by 2008: http://www.techweb.com/wire/showArticle.jhtml?arti cleID=55800522
Looks like Linux is becoming the standard desktop OS much faster than anyone had expected.

I mean, apart from the fact that Windows just works and you don't have to do any funny voodoo (or recompile the kernel) to get basic stuff like USB 2, FireWire and 802.11anything to work, what has Windows got that Linux hasn't got?

Given the choice between an OS I can use out of the box, so to speak, and an OS I have to configure by hand (actually editing config files in many instances) I'll take the one that lets me get to work ASAP, which is why I drive a Mac.

Linux? Sure, it's always going to have a place as a server OS, but on the desktop? Only geeks with the know-how to force it to behave will want it. Until Linux reaches the "Just Works" stage it doesn't stand a chance.

People can point to download numbers, saying that there are x million people downloading linux. So what? I've downloaded at least eight or nine distros in the last few years. Do you think I'm actually USING any of them? Nope.

I tried Linux PPC on my old Mac and it didn't work at all. Then I tried Yellow Dog on my old iMac, and it failed to recognise the video card (despite their saying explicitly that it WAS supported). I even tried a live CD of Ubuntu on my iBook. Neat, but so what? I can do all of that with MacOS X. I've got a couple different Fedora Cores laying about for use on my gaming PC, but I always go back to Windows. Why? It just works.

Sure, there are security holes to work around. But I'd rather put up with that (on Windows) than try to manage Linux. Linux requires too much work with not enough reward.

yes, Linux market share $35.7 billion by 2008 is correct: http://www.techweb.com/wire/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=55800522

1991 : Linux? A plaything for college students. It'll never work like *real* Unix.
1996 : Linux? So it makes a simple web server. It'll never scale as an enterprise server.
2001 : Linux? Yeah, it's nice for my enterprise servers, but it'll never give end-users any satisfaction.
2005 : Linux? So hackers have pretty desktop. Didja see the effort they had to go to make it work? It'll never be easy enough for our secretary Jane Typist.

Nope, Linux will never compete. Not even that Novell Linux Desktop that has proliferated our workplace and made every desktop look the same (but secure). It'll never happen.

Interesting way of seeing it.

let's jump straight to 2001. Linux isn't nice, but it's a cheap ugly option instead of using true Unix.
2005. Maybe a small amount of Haxx0000rs or whatever they call them starting using Linux, while those who really know something like Theo De Raadt stay with Unix which still owns Linux and will always own Linux.

What is also forgotten is that 1991 Linux was 3 years behind the competitors... 2005 Linux is 2 only 2 years behind the competitors... BUT evolution goes faster now. STill though, Linux will always be the least good solution for any given solution, however it seems like it has been and will be for quite some time the most hyped solution.

That was a useless article based on nothing, with no content, and up interchangeable terms (OS and platform). No logic in this article at all.

I mentioned early on that Linux would essentially make my brand-spanking-new computer useless, because it lacks sophisticated drivers for most of my higher-end hardware. Then someone suggested "Try the new ATI drivers".

WTF? No. I won't. Windows works fine for me. Why would I want to switch to Linux just to "try" the new drivers and see if they're as good as the Windows ones? I hate that mentality -- "try this, it might work".

How about "NO", because what I have already works?

The power the Windows holds over Linux can be seen in sort of a micro-ecosystem by look at the power that the iPod has over any other portable MP3 player on the market.

We can all agree that pretty much all of the MP3 players are as similar in their capabilities as Windows and Linux are. Pretty much do the same things in similar ways, using similar interfaces.

But, here's where the iPod is Winning, and the others are not. While all of the MP3 players have similar feature sets, none have the 3rd party support that the iPod enjoys right now. All of these 3rd parties that make remote control gizmos, FM broadcasters, belt pouches, "pod casting", etc. make the iPod an even BETTER choice than anything else because you can do that much more with it. I can get an iPod compatible BMW. Where's my Dell compatible Mercedes? or Ford?

MS Office and all of the other boxed software is what makes Windows popular and powerful, despite any inherent problems with the platform itself.

Linux is the Dell of MP3 players. (or perhaps, more appropriate, the iRiver or some other hackable player).

If you actually read his columns you would find that he is pushing MacOS X servers, not Windows servers.

This is for two reasons:
(1) the slick interface that you talk about, and
(2) the programmability of the underlying BSD OS for heavy-duty lifting.

Maybe next time get a clue before you spew.

What you fail to acknowledge is that Windows advocates on this and other Internet forums are as rabid, as aggressive and as abusive as the most extreme Linux enthusiasm. One only needs to read the comments sections on this webiste to figure that out.

Disclaimer: I'm both a Windows and Linux user.

WTF? No. I won't. Windows works fine for me. Why would I want to switch to Linux just to "try" the new drivers and see if they're as good as the Windows ones? I hate that mentality -- "try this, it might work".

So basically your only interest is to trash Linux, without finding out if your criticism is valid or not? It sure sounds that way:

"I won't try Linux because it doesn't work with my hardware.
- The new drivers work with your hardware.
- But I don't want to try them because Windows already works with my hardware."

We know that you're not interested in trying Linux. What I'm still trying to figure out is why you feel the urge to justify your bias by constantly attacking it.

Everyone I know is switching to linux lately. In another couple of month you'll see a significant dent in windows market share. Linux turned out much easier to use than I expected. I love it and should have switched long time ago.

Really can't make that statement until you've sprinkled it with holy water and driven a stake through it's heart.

crap!

You can tell me for sure that these drivers work perfectly? You were just saying "Try these ...", meaning you weren't sure, and now you ARE sure that they work with my hardware. What's next? Will I get the same FPS and better quality?

Right. I've seen game performance in Linux, and it's hardly impressive. What about all my other hardware?

My original statement could be likened to "I won't try Linux because it doesn't work with my hardware, and will not bring anything to the table. It'll take from the table."

This author of this article is 100% correct. Let me explain it again companies want supportable end to end solutions. They really do not care about flexibility of creating their own solutions becasue those type of development projects are extremely expensive and it makes better business sense to use commercial offerings.

Completely lame article. No facts at all, but a lot of wrong information. Linux is already doing a lot of harm to windows as well as to several close-sourced Unix'es.

And he clearly doesn't know a dime about programming when he claims that programmers "spend most of their time encapsulating and abstracting low-level system calls to create what is, in effect, an application platform."

This is not exactly true - actually it's BS. A programmer _can_ do it, but many don't since Linux (and other *nix'es) has all the programming tools, api layers, RAD-tools and whatever anyone could possibly need.

Anyway... claiming Linux does not "make a dent in Windows' mind share or market share" is factually wrong.

Haha... Your statement "They really do not care about flexibility of creating their own solutions becasue those type of development projects are extremely expensive and it makes better business sense to use commercial offerings" is clearly wrong.

A closedsource end to end solution typically cost a two or three ciffered million danish crowns, however an open source selfmade solution typically cost less than a million danish crowns - when the company uses the potential to its fullest. Hire a few developers - create your own solution - let the developers handle maintainence. Price for 5 years: 25.000*12*5 per developer = 1.5 million danish crown or 7.5 mio. Dkr. for 5 developers in 5 years. And you don't really need more than one developer when the solution has been developed. One is enough for maintainance.

If you do it right, you can save a lot of money on open source

Windows is threatened by linux no question, but each move MS makes agains Linux will have no result. Nobody cares, if windows gains market shares against linux (except MS of course).

Linux has grown out of itself, though there was a lot of "competition". Kernel 0.1 was born in the beginning of the 90's - a time with many different competitors (Atari, DOS, Win 3.11, several unixes of course, etc). Linux has grown though there were dozens of better operating systems at that time. It's existing. Those who want to use it can use it, the others will have to pay.

You can tell me for sure that these drivers work perfectly? You were just saying "Try these ...", meaning you weren't sure, and now you ARE sure that they work with my hardware.

I wasn't the original poster to tell you to try the ATI drivers. For the record I have a Nvidia card and the Linux drivers are very good. My beef is that you don't even want to try. In other words, you complain for the sake of complaining.

What's next? Will I get the same FPS and better quality?

For native games? Sure.

Right. I've seen game performance in Linux, and it's hardly impressive.

You get the same FPS for native games, such as Neverwinter Nights, UT2004 or Quake 3. In fact, you can get better performance if you use a minimal Window Manager for your gaming sessions, which reduces the overhead.

What about all my other hardware?¨

What about it? Look, if Linux won't work well with your own specific hardware combination, then don't use it. It works fine with mine. To each his own. There's no point in trashing Linux just for the sake of it, like you've been doing in these comments sections. I don't feel the need to trash Windows just because I prefer Linux...

A number of years ago I read an interview with an IBM exec, which was the a ha moment for me regarding IBM's Linux strategy, where it was stated that IBM basically saw Linux as potentially being everything IBM thought Java should have been; essentially a highly flexible universal runtime environment. IBM knows platforms. In fact, it's easily the largest "platform" vendor in existence, bar none.

In the datacenter, Linux is really just another Unix. Actually, if we're talking about the very high-end side of the datacenter market, Linux as an OS compares pretty poorly with AIX and Solaris. That said, Linux, with some help from IBM, Oracle, and a few other tier 1 vendors, has been steadily pushing its way deeper into the datacenter for one important reason: commodity hardware. The economics of commodity hardware will eventually completely reconfigure the traditional enterprise datacenter market and Linux is what is making that possible. The Xen hypervisor, which has accumulated major vendor (hardware and software) support faster than any other technology I can ever recall, will, imho, accelerate this trend even more.

In the late 90's it looked as though the only way commodity harware was ever going to get into the datacenter was either via Windows, an very unpalatable option to many, or the vaporous hopes then attached to the IBM/SCO Monterey project. Since that time MS has had very little luck moving up into the core of the datacenter and the Monterey project was officially abandoned by IBM for Linux.

Linux will probably never kill-off MS, but it has very effectively held off MS's attempts at moving up into high end markets.

On the client side, Linux may never become a good general purpose home operating system, but it does have many compelling advantages when compared to Windows in a corporate setting, especially in light of continuing trend toward thin clients and application deployment models based around Citrix, Tarentella, and Windows Terminal Server. Ironically enough, Linux may well end up taking a significant part of client market by playing to its strenghts as server OS.

windows fanboys, download Enemy Territory from ID games... it is free you know...

anyway, play online and have a look at peoples usernames in there.

you will see they mostly have linux in their names, or the distro as their name...

No games on Linux ? nah - you are all living in the dark ages mate

It's about being as good as it can be and offering people an alternative, and that's enough.

A closedsource end to end solution typically cost a two or three ciffered million danish crowns, however an open source selfmade solution typically cost less than a million danish crowns - when the company uses the potential to its fullest. Hire a few developers - create your own solution - let the developers handle maintainence. Price for 5 years: 25.000*12*5 per developer = 1.5 million danish crown or 7.5 mio. Dkr. for 5 developers in 5 years. And you don't really need more than one developer when the solution has been developed. One is enough for maintainance.

If you do it right, you can save a lot of money on open source

Well i am not sure how they do things in De Dansk but here in the States it happens exactly like i stated. Developing your own software soultion 9 times out of 10 duplicates software already on the market. Also depending on the quality of you developers you get locked into a proprietary software solution that over the long term becomes a huge headache to maintain and release new versions for. Buying a COTS product ensures maintainability since new versions of software and support will be released handled by the software company.

I belive this guy works for Microsoft, because no one else would defend M$ and Window$ like he does. Everything he tells is lies. Linux is a supperior operating sistem, safer, faster, bettar. Why wouldnt that please the companys?? Every day I see more and more companys moving to Linux, and this only shows how Linux became mature enought to be used in companys.

Why the fuck would *anyone* put their distro name in their game name? How *gay* is that?

Next thing you know, I'll be playing as [NT5.1]OMGWTFBBQ. It's no different than the turds who use AzN-pLaYaH-hAtaH or something equally stupid.

The argument of whether Linux will win over Windows is
just fodder for the marketing geeks to justify useless
conversation to pass the time at the water cooler.
And it gives each of them the opportunity to hear themselves
speak(however factually incorrect they make it to be).

Microsoft has invested a lot of time and money trying to
convince people such as _my boss_ and the many other
non-technical managerial-types that MS-Windows XP/Longhorn/etc is, and always will be the the BETTER
CHOICE. How about an "E" for effort on their behalf.

I work at a University which offers "computer science
degree courses" and the new generation of computer
geniuses are changing. Not because anyone is telling them
to change, but that they have become comfortable with
OpenSource.

Microsoft keeps hounding the baby boomers in the managerial
positions, but those people are the wrong segment. Old
ways, lose new business.

The computer science students which I employ under my
guidance don't buy software. This is one blow to Microsoft
who's productivity software costs a lot of money. Students
don't spend money if they can avoid it. My students also do
not care if their assignments should be submitted in MSWord
format, because OpenOffice runs on their MAC OSX and Linux
x86 computers.

Microsoft *WILL* see a dent in their structure some day
soon, as the students of today will manage businesses
and corporations of tomorrow(very near future), and these
students have already had a taste for Opensource and it
works very well for them.

This _really_ is what is happening on our campus, and
we aren't alone. Whether Microsoft achknowledges it or not,
Windows only resembles money. Our students believe that
the MS software is vastly overpriced.

Microsoft's primary excuse will no longer be _Software
Piracy_ but lack of sales... and it is their mpending
legacy.

well i disagree with the author. last sunday i deleted windows. and installed ubuntu hoary. it works with all my hardware. and has all the programs i need. Also with the clearlooks theme its also much nicer to look at than windows. So far, i am quite happy with my choice to ditch windows. its been about a week, and i have become much more comfortable with linux. Also im really liking the gimp and inkscape. After getting used to the layout, its a bit easier to use than photoshop or illustrator. Plus the gimp works a million times better in linux than it does in windows.

Smartpatrol > It appears to me, that either you don't grok the nature of opensource OR you just haven't read what I wrote. There is no way a company can "get locked into a proprietary software solution" when they're using free libré open source software. It's impossible by the nature of that philosophy

But if you're thinking about closed source selfmade software - this is always expensive - and a very bad idea. I was talking about free software / open source and not non-free / proprietary software. And in USA this is quite used as well, it's not just in Denmark (and it's not called De Dansk - there is no such word - it's Denmark (in english - in danish it would be Danmark)) :-D

Feel free to mail me if you think you have questions I can answer - or write in here if that pleases you. Or perhaps even better - just ignore me ;-)

Reading all the flamebait's been fun. The article also left me feeling a little confused - Linux has one major advantage over the WinNT branch of Windows, which Yager went and forgot: sure, there may be a number of user-interface APIs, but the base API, POSIX, is unified and is also exposed to applications writers. It's also shared with the *BSD including MacOSX. WinNT's base API - the ntkernel-minus-Win32-GDI API - isn't exposed, and instead, has been laboriously reverse-engineered by the ntinternals crew.

Consequently, Linux is already a platform. Yager just hasn't recognized that. What us Linux enthusiasts are talking about, on the desktop, isn't "developing a platform", it's extending it.

And it's proving a lot easier to extend an already robust server platform with freely-redistributable source code to the desktop, than it has been to extend a fragile desktop to meet the demands of the server environment.

And in the meantime, what a waste of resources. Some people .... !

Yes, Windows can run run everything. Including every virus, worm, and spyware in the known universe.

I have used Linux for five years and my machine has never run one of those. I have also not paid for any software in the last four years.

As a retired journalist, I resent this person falsely representing himself as one. People like him think they are reporting when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.

Everyone may never be converted to Linux (I don't think is our goal anyhow), but then, Muslim extremists will never convert to Christianity either.

That does not make the terrorist right.

If you want to support a company that has been convicted of monopolistic practices, go ahead. That makes you just as much an outlaw as the people who steal a copy of Windows from the richest man in the world.

Open source equals open mind. Microsoft, or those -- including journalists -- who profiteer from it, are not open source. The rest of the equation is simple enough even for a Windows user to figure out.

I'm wondering, having read the articles in this list, if perhaps OSNews ought to reconsider it name, and perhaps change it to OSConjecture.

linux needs to be a "bag of drivers". i hate installing new hardware on linux

Linux is a flagship of bad F/OSS software. It will eventually be replaced by a better free OS and *that* will beat windows.

I don't know why they would want to put their OS name in their username in the game, it is just something I have noticed lately.

AND, another thing, I have asked these users about the distros they say they are using, just to make sure they are not the muppets who insert a live cd and think them is a linux guru.

On May 5th the UK is going to be having a general election. I will be asking the candidates around here how they feel on software patents, if they support the idea or not.
I will also ask them if they will be supporting proprietary software in the UK government infrastructure and schools, or will they be looking to replace this saving billions of tax payers pounds.

I will post the reply on some site... if I get a reply and not just a blank look from them hahaha

Linux is a flagship of bad F/OSS software. It will eventually be replaced by a better free OS and *that* will beat windows.

Those free OS have to catch the reality: none of them have yet to prove their usualibity in the real world (enterprise, server, hardware to name a few).
Linux as a kernel is a proven technology that does not need to beat Windows (based on a microkernel that does not provide scalability).