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Hot on the heels of Tiger we have 10.3.9 this week and Tiger next week. Forget the Delta and use the Combo.
Good stuff, also rumors of new PowerMacs, iMacs and eMacs with 512MB RAM standard and 256MB Radeon 9600 as standard. Not the best but not bad. I'll believe it when I see it.
oops 10.3.9 this week, new Macz maybe next week and Tigre the week after...eek
Working just fine for me. Only gripe is Safari had Amazon, eBay, Apple, etc. links re-added to my bookmark bar. Not sure why that happened. Easily deleted, of course.
Damn, those Apple developers stay busy. This is NOT a Windows slam, but look at the pace of OS X development and the regularity of updates compared to Redmond.
I know the Microsofties are putting all their heart into Longhorn and it will all eventually hit the streets in a greatly enhanced Windows OS. But hats off to Apple for a really impressive Panther schedule. They kept it fresh to the end.
10.3.9 seems to have fixed an issue i was having with safari and Gmail. it would stall sometimes and you had to hit refresh to get in. now it goes right in everytime. very nice, that was annoying.
10.3.9 seems to have fixed the 10.3.8 "bug" that causes NetGear routers (mine is an MR814v2) to get really flakey with iTunes, Mail, iChat, etc.
Also, if you go to www.24fun.com, Safari is now as fast, if not faster than, G4-optimized versions of Camino.
Luposian
This update has broken Java for me (and others, from the posts I've seen elsewhere). Any Java app results in a segmentation fault.
Anyone came across a solution yet? I thought about "downgrading", by downloading an older install (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/javaupdate142.html), but I don't want to break anything else by doing this...
I have an iBook G4 and my system seems to be performing faster now. Finder, Safari, Mail, everything. I don't know quite what did it. I try to keep it optimized whenever I can but I didn't expect this performance increase. Safari especially feels zippier now. Hats off to Apple!
Java apps still run fine for me after the upgrade
Look out for compatibility issues with plug ins.
And for the above trolls, yakkin about MS updates, keep an eye out for the free update to XP Pro x64 that MS is rolling out later this month. No $129 upgrade price to get full use of those 64 bit CPUs from Intel and AMD. I call that a little more major than an update to Safari.
Sorry try again, maybe when MS stops giving us MSN Desktop Search, MSN Messenger 7, MS Antispyware, WMP 10........all for free, maybe we will get a little more excited about a browser update.
Great update for me - Safari seems to have a very noticeable speed increase. No problems so far. Other things seem faster too, but I’ll have to spend more time to see for sure. I run an old Imac G3 333mhz and it has made a very nice speed improvement there also. Very impressive. Way to go Apple!
Safari feels much faster for me, too. It seems to scroll faster or something. Can't quite put my finger on it.
Java is working fine for me. I've seen mention of Java woes in other forums as well, but no solution has crossed my path as of yet.
The ambient light sensor on my PowerBook still has the issue where if you bump the keyboard light adjust buttons (F9 or F10) while the keyboard light is off (in a bright room), it disables the keyboard backlight when the lights later dim. That one is kind of annoying. :-)
The trackpad on my PowerBook is now MUCH more responsive. (Mine is the new PB with the different trackpad that supports the 2-finger scrolling gestures). It now feels much more like my old PowerBook's trackpad in terms of responsiveness and speed.
Overall things feel slightly snappier, but that could be all psychological for all I know.
Never doubt that the OS is snapper after an upgrade.
I've done UI for years, and your comments that means that they were able to squeak a 3-5% speed boost out of the system. That kind of boost is perceptible, but just barely.
It's funny, but people always doubt it when it feels "just a bit" faster. It -is- just a bit faster.
This update has broken Java for me (and others, from the posts I've seen elsewhere). Any Java app results in a segmentation fault.
Could you name the app you're having problems with. Is it a custom written one? freebie? commercial software?
Just a reply to ChanMan; where are the negative comments? the *only* comments bought up so far were from kit, who exclaimed to great excitement about how fast development at Apple is going; the ability to kick out not only a new release but a update/service pack within a fortnight of each other. The other chap was Anonymous@IP: 168.12.253.--- who was simply pointing out how the Apple numbering scheme works.
Usario Clave, you're correct. I too had to study GUI design at polytech - its interesting the types of visual tricks one can do to convice users that the software is incredibly fast, when reality it isn't (splash screen and progress bar anyone :-) ).
Update worked 100% for me on both my G4 500 and Mac Mini. Problems since 10.3.8 with problems with Mail, IChat and ITunes music store when using Netgear router without Multicasting are completely gone. It was fine with other routers but now works 100% with the problem Netgears too.
On the Java problems, Had none. Gone to all sorts of sites to test and it's 100% here on both systems. Like Luposian above, I went to that Java test site where Safari before the update was the slowest browser out there, now its faster than even the best on OSX except for the new Beta Opera 8.
So far very impressed, and like others have stated things seem faster. Safari in paricular. And like was said on the Apple Page about the update, Network performance with Windows and Mac systems mixed in a network seemed more snappy and fast. Windows shares showed right up where before on my fairly large network took time.
You can test your java failing real quick by doing this on command line in Terminal:
java -version
That will fail with an error of some sort if you're one of the unlucky few with java issues.
Updated my mac mini, rebooted, and mouse had stopped working. Unplugged it, plugged it back in, works.
Safari renders pages noticeably (but not staggeringly) faster, which is always good. Gmail now loads properly on first click(you had to click refresh multiple times before, on occasion). Installed and is running fine on my 1 Ghz 12" powerbook. Java works as well on the first app I tested.
BigZaphod, Tried the java -version from the terminal and it worked perfectally and gave me the java version like it should.
wooo... recompiled for 64 bit gui!!! wow.. yeah.. sure thing.. big deal.
I too have Java issues. This is a pretty stock machine software wise. Machine is and older G5 1.6 PowerMac 1.5 Gig of RAM. Just wanted to say that if there is a trend of G5s having the problem... single proc vs multi proc machines etc etc.
I tested by running java at the comman line.
Same here:
> java -version
Segmentation fault
That is: noe Eclipse *sob*
Hey y'all, the speed increases you feel in Safari is actually the long rumored 1.3 release which if I remember correctly, includes the next generation javascript engine which features in Safari 2.0. (1.3 had been seeded around WWDC 2004 but had never seen the light of day until now).
Like the poster above, I too am now able to wirelessly access the iTunes music store once more. (NetGear Router issue).
I too get a Segmentation Fault... I wonder what other fun things will pop up.
Hey y'all, the speed increases you feel in Safari is actually the long rumored 1.3 release which if I remember correctly, includes the next generation javascript engine which features in Safari 2.0. (1.3 had been seeded around WWDC 2004 but had never seen the light of day until now).
It would be nice to know whether Apple still uses the javascript support from KDE/KHTML project, or whether they replaced it with their own Javascript implementation.
Also, from what I have heard, animated GIFS will no longer bring Safari to a crawl, like they do now.
Follow up to my previous post of Java issue.
I tried my Mac Mini and PowerBook G4 and both work fine with Java. Only my G5 has a broken Java.
Makes me think it may be a G5 issue.
I have the java-troubles on an iMac G4 ...
The java app works perfectly well in FireFox, but Safari crashes due to the segmentation fault.
Hope Apple quickly solves this
About javascript: can anybody show an URL which points out about the fact the javascript of 2.0 is already in safari 1.3 ?
(I have a javascript app that works fine in FF, but doesn't even in Safari 1.3)
No problems on my iMac G5 1.6, 512Mb. Java works fine.
$ java -version
java version "1.4.2_05"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.4.2_05-141.4)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-38, mixed mode)
Just a suggestion: many problems of this kind (those that appear only on random computers) are sometimes solved by running the combo updater (available at apple.com/support) again. Try that.
No crash on my iMac G5 1.8, 1GB. I can obtain the command line -version, run Limewire, etc.
Yet to test Safari with Java though - but Safari itself is much better than before. Not just speed (a slight increase, most noticeable on eBay ;-D), but it also works on more pages and doesn't crash (so far).
Back from Camino once again then :-)
I was reading the comments here whilst waiting for the update to download and I was getting ready to come back and say everyone was imagining the safari speed increase, but damn, it is noticeable on my 1.42 mac mini. Very cool 
"THIS release is akin to what Microsoft released with SP2"
Since the topic is 10.3.x I take it that you mean that Apple has released NINE SP2-equivalents. And that's just for Panther. Very impressive in comparison to Redmond then, don't you think?
If you were referring to to 10.4 then you obviously can't read as 10.4 wasn't the topic...troll.
"Sorry try again, maybe when MS stops giving us MSN Desktop Search, MSN Messenger 7, MS Antispyware, WMP 10........all for free, maybe we will get a little more excited about a browser update."
Maybe when Micor$oft stopped releasing "patches" and "security enhancments" that kills my RAID setup, I might get a little more excited about using Windows. Last patch Tuesday was it. I'm hastening my move from Windows and to Ubuntu and MacOS X.
10.3.9 and Safari 1.3 have been updated with the same WebCore engine that's in Tiger -- see Dave Hyatt's blog at http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/ for the details.
That's why it's much faster all of a sudden -- check a JavaScript benchmark test if you think it's just a placebo. ; )
This is great news, btw -- it means Panther and Tiger user will be using the same version of Safari basically, instead of further splitting the codebase among people who upgrade and people who don't. Good decision, Apple!
"...maybe when MS stops giving us ... MS Antispyware..."
Is that their solution to combat spyware? How clever. Let the stuff install behind the scenes, without the user's knowledge (well, running as root all the time doesn't help), and then go in afterwards and constantly sniff around for the stuff. Brilliant.
These so-called "minimal user privileges" (read: user != root) debuting in Longhorn are, well, innovative and groundbreaking.
the combo-updater didn't held me
Hey guys, if you reinstall the 2003-002 security update it may fix your java problems. It seems to be working for several people, and it worked for me.
Jim
what if that reopens some security holes?
Your solution for the Java problem works just fine !
Thanks a ton
For anybody in need: here's the url:
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/securityupdate2005002macosx1...
could be, that something is updated with that and with 10.3.9 it could be updated again, so you would use an old BUGGY version
something with java and safari must be changed, because without it wouldn't work again
well...i'll wait for the official fix from apple
Although I love the speed increase, the update to Safari seems to have broken Google Suggest (http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=1&hl=en)
When you typed in the search bar, it would automatically suggest searches for you. Now this no longer works. I can live without it, but it is a great feature.
Undo in web forms works!
And i can now select text properly in text boxes with the keyboard (command-shift-left etc) without changing tabs.. woot!
Safari is significantly faster here on my old PowerMac 333 Mhz. It's wonderful to see Apple doing something for the desktop experience in the free updates, instead of focusing solely on security issues.
When was the last time we had performance increases in a Windows sevice pack?
Working good for me. I would recommend using the Combo update versus the Delta and fixing permissions at the minimum before an update.
Ok, try this:
Apple 2005-002 update. Then get and reinstall the 10.3.9 Combo update. Repair permissions. This worked for me, and java is running again.
Better?
I tested it on the first java applet I ever made and I have no issues.
BTW... undo/redo is soooooooooo nice
Eugenia was so right to complain back when safari first came out.
that I am clicking hyperlinks just to play with the new speed in webcore :-).. to bad it will only be for 13 days until tiger starts pawing at my door :-)
repair permissions? what's meant with that?
Go to Applications->Utilities->Disk Utility
Select the drive and click on the "Repair Disk Permissions" button
if you want to go a little bit further you can update prebindings in Terminal
after you run Disk Utility. Of course you want to reboot after running Disk Utility.
sudo update_prebinding -root / -force
why?
prebindigs are updated during install of the update.
"why?
prebindigs are updated during install of the update."
Well, I did mention that if you wanted to get loco and exactly what you said, prebindings are updated during the install of the udate not before.
I also do other things like delete .ds store files, user and system caches. It does not hurt, doesn't take long and I have been using the same home folder since 10.1 with no data loss related to full OS installs and updates. It works for me anyway and I don't have a lot of problems others do.
"Damn, those Apple developers stay busy. This is NOT a Windows slam, but look at the pace of OS X development and the regularity of updates compared to Redmond. "
Corporations do not generally like having to constantly update. That's at least one of the reasons Apple has essentially zero presence in the corporate market. XP hasn't remained static at all (.NET, DX9, new firewall), but major updates are intentionally spaced out - along with the long term support that Apple has NEVER provided.
Home users may tolerate the upgrade treadmill, but business users do not.
wow, safari is pretty darn fast now... I'm impressed and very happy.
All safari users rejoice, since THEY ADDED XML SUPPORT!!!!!!!!! Finally! I have been waiting for this forever!
To test, go to www.mercury.to and click on changelog. Try it before and after the update if you can
"Corporations do not generally like having to constantly update. That's at least one of the reasons Apple has essentially zero presence in the corporate market. XP hasn't remained static at all (.NET, DX9, new firewall), but major updates are intentionally spaced out - along with the long term support that Apple has NEVER provided. "
Actually JCS what you are referring to is that corporations don't like to constantly update Windows. MacOSX is not the same as Windows.
As we have seen on OSNews articles on SP2 some people want it and some don't overall it seems 50/50 with some people not wanting SP2 anywhere near their machine. Contrast this with MacOSX. There are very few negative reactions from the 10.3.9 update and most of the negative reactions come from people who don't even own a Mac.
It is my opinion that Apple evolves/updates their OS faster than MS with less advese affects to their users so Apple does come out with a lot more updates than MS unless you count security patches as updates then that would be MS upgrading their OS a lot faster than MacOSX.
I work in a large corp (80,000 desktops, 2000 servers --- all windows) and let me tell you I would rather UPGRADE than patch - break -patch patch - break - patch - patch - patch - break - patch - patch - patch - patch - patch - break - patch ... ad infinitum
Our patch management cycle is quarterly and someone, somewhere, is always patching and something, somewhere, is always breaking. That's life in IT. Get Over It and stop knocking Apple for giving you the OPTION to update. Yes, it's an OPTION.
As for long term support I understand I could run OS9 apps in a VM on my PowerBook running OS X. There as also MANY emus for the older OS's. Fortunately I live in the 21st century so I do not need to run proprietry legacy apps that locked in your data.
VIRTUALISATION is the way to support LEGACY stuff that no one can bear to ditch.
Apple are not in the "enterprise" because Apple do not sell stationery. That's all your office PC is, just akin to a paperclip or a filing cabinet.
DISCLAIMER: my opinion only. No doubt I am wrong. But did you ever know a pornographer that wasn't ahead on the technology curve? Well, did ya?
And did not notice anything new or did not feel my Mac mini getting any faster....
I'm not a user of Safari, I still prefer FireFox. So I guess i'm missing what this update has to give... Nothing else but faster Safari...
pretty much... though it is webcore that was updated, not safari.
G5 dual 2 ghz machine here and Java works just fine after the upgrade.
malkia - 10.3.8, Safari, Mac OS, 900-999MHz (iBook/900Mhz)
191.83 seconds, April 16, at 16:20:15
ranking: 494 out of 502 testers
TEST 1 time: 102.785 sec.
TEST 2 time: 5.203 sec.
TEST 3 time: 2.621 sec.
TEST 4 time: 33.06 sec.
TEST 5 time: 19.146 sec.
TEST 6 time: 7.033 sec.
TEST 7 time: 21.987 sec.
will post 10.3.9 as soon the update is ready...
Dual 2Ghz box here and Azureus nor IntelliJ IDEA launch anymore... bummer...
paul@[~]: java -version
Segmentation fault
?!?!?!?!?!
To repeat:
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/securityupdate2005002macosx1...
Reinstalling this security update, makes java work under 10.3.9 again here.
This does not fix Eclipse. It's better, the IDE comes up, but soon crashes. After 10.3.9 even the splash would not come up.
Okay, something was broken with their previous JavaScript implementation (was it KJS based?). Here is the 10.3.9 (I just did the update)
TEST 1 time: 4.599 sec.
TEST 2 time: 4.062 sec.
TEST 3 time: 3.93 sec.
TEST 4 time: 1.784 sec.
TEST 5 time: 0.633 sec.
TEST 6 time: 6.66 sec.
TEST 7 time: 0.652 sec.
total: malkia - 10.3.9, Safari, Mac OS, 900-999MHz
22.32 seconds, April 16, at 16:50:18
ranking: 329 out of 502 testers
----------------------------------
compare this with 10.3.8 (posted earlier) - 190seconds
TEST 1 time: 102.785 sec.
TEST 2 time: 5.203 sec.
TEST 3 time: 2.621 sec.
TEST 4 time: 33.06 sec.
TEST 5 time: 19.146 sec.
TEST 6 time: 7.033 sec.
TEST 7 time: 21.987 sec.
Okay, fixed it by applying 10.3.9 Combo again... Here's the sequence that worked for me.
10.3.9 Delta (from Software Update)
Broken
10.3.9 Combo (apple.com)
Still Broken
2005-002 (apple.com)
A little better
10.3.9 Combo (apple.com)
Fixed
I'm running on a PowerBook G4 @ 1.67GHz w/ 1GB ram.
Good luck to eveyone else.
Wow, you do a lot of work you don't need to do with each upgrade. I've had the same home dir since 10.1 and also have moved it from one laptop to another and I never do any of those things. I just let the OS upgrade itself. Sometimes I run a repair permissions when I think of it, but not every time. That's it. No need to try to outsmart the computer. :-)
This is the first time an update has ever caused my a problem. I usually update right away, but now I'll wait at least a few days.
I did a clean install of MacOS X off my restore disks, installed the combo of 10.3.9, and just then I checked up my update, its rather strange that now, the updater is now claiming that I should download and install the security patch from 02/05.
I did a permissions repair and then downloaded / reinstalled the 2005-002 update. All quiet on the java front
These so-called "minimal user privileges" (read: user != root) debuting in Longhorn are, well, innovative and groundbreaking."
Users below "root" have been available on NT from the start.
"Actually JCS what you are referring to is that corporations don't like to constantly update Windows. MacOSX is not the same as Windows. "
No. Mac OS X has to be updated (as in upgrade, not patch) much more often to stay supported. Apple does NOT support older releases as well or as long as Microsoft.
"Fortunately I live in the 21st century so I do not need to run proprietry legacy apps that locked in your data. "
This is a ridiculous statement.
"VIRTUALISATION is the way to support LEGACY stuff that no one can bear to ditch."
Nope. Counting on support for at least 5 years is better.
"Apple are not in the "enterprise" because Apple do not sell stationery. That's all your office PC is, just akin to a paperclip or a filing cabinet. "
My "office PC" is an engineering workstation. Apple doesn't make those either.
10.2 still gets security updates... what other support are you looking for?
Since I installed 10.3.9 Safari constantly crashed everytime I closed a tab, or tried to quit the app.
It turned out the problem came from integration of a download-manager called iGetter. Remove menu integration and safari will be as stable as a rock. Also I noticed quite a speed increase (especially now that I don't have to restart it every half-minute ).
Does anybody know when/whether these improvements to Safari will be incorporated in KHTML/KJS?
"No. Mac OS X has to be updated (as in upgrade, not patch) much more often to stay supported. Apple does NOT support older releases as well or as long as Microsoft."
Well in order to use Adobe Creative Suite2 you need 10.2.8 which is still supported by Apple, running anything below that is like asking for trouble.
And yes you are right Apple does not support older releases as long as Microsoft but you are dealing with a different crowd. A lot of PC users are either averse to change and this is true with the number of 95/98 and NT installs that are still out there. They do not perceive the benefits of 2000 and XP and for many it would actually slow their computer down. Constrast this with most Mac users, even the ones still running G3s in which the OS gets FASTER with each update and upgrade, exactly the opposite of what the PC user is accustomed to. Thats why you still have many IT people that prefer 2000 over XP.
Also take into consideration the differences. In the same span MS took to put XP out the door Apple has gone from 10.0 to 10.3. Each OS was quite a bit different than the other. 2000 and XP there isn't that much of a difference really compelling people not to upgrade.
The benefits of an upgrade are very clear on the Mac side but with Windows you really don't get that same feeling. Its not like XP is more secure than 2000 or anything like that.
""My "office PC" is an engineering workstation. Apple doesn't make those either. ""
So why is your "office PC" not just an office PC? (ie without the quotes?)
Oh! Because it's an engineering workstation!
I see Matlab on OS X, I must be insane!
You'd be surprised how often this pornographer has a use for Matlab ...
http://www.mathworks.com/products/matlab/requirements.html
rocks! definitely faster now, gmail issue fixed...love it. firefox is cool too, however it loads a little slower than safari. not a biggie, but...
"10.2 still gets security updates... what other support are you looking for?"
10.2 isn't that old. Does it still get other updates? I don't believe it does.
"And yes you are right Apple does not support older releases as long as Microsoft but you are dealing with a different crowd."
Which is one reason they get no traction in the enterprise market.
"A lot of PC users are either averse to change and this is true with the number of 95/98 and NT installs that are still out there."
No, that's not the reason. Why replace something that works for no reason?
"Constrast this with most Mac users, even the ones still running G3s in which the OS gets FASTER with each update and upgrade, exactly the opposite of what the PC user is accustomed to."
Do you want to know WHY it seems to get faster? 10.0 was VERY slow.
"So why is your "office PC" not just an office PC? (ie without the quotes?)
Oh! Because it's an engineering workstation!
I see Matlab on OS X, I must be insane!"
Why do you think your Mac is anything other than an "office PC"? There's nothing at all special about Apple's hardware. Much of it is fairly low-end "PC" hardware, just sold at a premium with really good marketing.
(1) there's no support for workstation OpenGL hardware on the Mac - this one's pretty important.
(2) There are no industry-standard CAD/CAE applications available for the Mac. No Pro/Engineer, AutoCAD, Solid Edge, CATIA, SolidWorks, Nastran, and the like.
"You'd be surprised how often this pornographer has a use for Matlab ...
http://www.mathworks.com/products/matlab/requirements.html "
You seem really proud of your disreputable job.
it gets security updates.. that is all MS offers after a new windows release is out.
10.0 was very slow, but so what? 10.3 was very nice in ui response. resizing windows is really the only problem with it and that is not a huge issue.
10.4 has the entire GUI composed in the GPU in Quartz Extreme (OGL). the ui speed up is as much as 50% is some places and 25% is all others.
"Do you want to know WHY it seems to get faster? 10.0 was VERY slow."
10.3 is already faster than 10.0 and MacOS9 so if you think you can play it out like you know anything about MacOSX, you really don't.
So by your logic Windows gets slower on the same hardware because earlier releases were faster. Sorry I would rather have it the other way around.
10.2 still gets security updates. So it still is being updated and you can still use it. Now if you install MacOS 9.1 on a system you CAN STILL DOWNLOAD UPDATES via Software Update.
BTW who do you know that sells a SFF-PC smaller than the Mac Mini or sells a a system about 1U in height with an LCD display.
JCS, you know nothing about Macs or MacOSX so why comment on stuff you know nothing and try to play it out like you have some knowledge of Macs when you have zero.
"it gets security updates.. that is all MS offers after a new windows release is out."
Were DX9, WMP10, the new firewall, IE updates, 64-bit support (XP Professional for X86-64 is free for XP 32 owners with 64-bit hardware), .NET, Avalon (which will be available for XP, just security updates?
None of that requires $129 a year from the user.
"10.0 was very slow, but so what? 10.3 was very nice in ui response. resizing windows is really the only problem with it and that is not a huge issue.
10.4 has the entire GUI composed in the GPU in Quartz Extreme (OGL). the ui speed up is as much as 50% is some places and 25% is all others. "
It matters quite a bit when you say it "gets faster". From what and referred to what? It was VERY slow. The speed increases aren't magic.
"10.3 is already faster than 10.0 and MacOS9 so if you think you can play it out like you know anything about MacOSX, you really don't. "
I do think you missed my point.
"So by your logic Windows gets slower on the same hardware because earlier releases were faster. Sorry I would rather have it the other way around"
XP wasn't a dog when it was released. It was ALREADY fast.
BTW, it was faster at some things than 2000.
"BTW who do you know that sells a SFF-PC smaller than the Mac Mini or sells a a system about 1U in height with an LCD display. "
The first I really don't care about. All the Mac Mini is is a repackaged laptop with none of the advantages of same. The second (I assume you refer to the current iMac?) is also a repackaged laptop attached to a desktop screen. You are easily impressed.
"JCS, you know nothing about Macs or MacOSX so why comment on stuff you know nothing and try to play it out like you have some knowledge of Macs when you have zero."
Hardly. I have a far wider experience level than you on far more platforms.
Were DX9, WMP10,
QT 6 is a free download for 10.2 users
the new firewall,
MS making up for their bad design is not an update it is a security patch.
IE updates
those too are security releases, safari still gets webcore updates on 10.2
64-bit support (XP Professional for X86-64 is free for XP 32 owners with 64-bit hardware)
MS trying to get people to use an OS that is no more featureful than the one they sold before.
.NET
and? they want people to use their developer environment
Avalon (which will be available for XP
and it is not an XP end user item, it is simply there for developers to play with.
just security updates
sorry... your right.... Security releases AND market penetration of their new technologies.
not a big deal.. Apple releases all their new technologies to their developers as well.
"QT 6 is a free download for 10.2 users"
Same for Windows. What about system API support. Is THAT backported?
"MS making up for their bad design is not an update it is a security patch."
A feature is a "security patch"? Come on.
"IE updates
those too are security releases, safari still gets webcore updates on 10.2"
The update from 5 to 6 wasn't a "security patch".
"MS trying to get people to use an OS that is no more featureful than the one they sold before."
Oh, come on. Support for large memory is certainly important to me. When is OS X going to catch up here? They did claim (falsely) to have the first 64-bit desktop, didn't they? It wasn't and really isn't still.
".NET
and? they want people to use their developer environment"
Apple must not, then.
"and it is not an XP end user item, it is simply there for developers to play with."
Absolutely false. It's for developers to USE for applications ON and FOR XP.
"Security releases AND market penetration of their new technologies."
It's called "support".
"not a big deal.. Apple releases all their new technologies to their developers as well."
Apple does NOT release "all their new technologies" for previous releases - especially not ones dating back to 2001.
" The first I really don't care about. All the Mac Mini is is a repackaged laptop with none of the advantages of same."
Like the ability to update the display?
" The second (I assume you refer to the current iMac?) is also a repackaged laptop attached to a desktop screen. You are easily impressed."
Actually it has a lot in common with the XServe if you've opened either one of them up you would know this. What laptop has a G5?
"Like the ability to update the display? "
Can I update the internal cards? No.
"Actually it has a lot in common with the XServe if you've opened either one of them up you would know this."
Actually, it doesn't. Xserve uses a different chipset/power supply.
"BTW, What laptop has a G5?"
What Mini has a G5? What part of "uses laptop components" only refers to the chip?
Same for Windows. What about system API support. Is THAT backported?
Quicktime is a platform, not just the player, so yes, it is.
A feature is a "security patch"? Come on.
Umm... XP had a firewall when it was released in 2001... MS changed it in SP2 to be on by default. that is a security patch.
The update from 5 to 6 wasn't a "security patch".
IE 5 ->6 is simply updating MSHTML (which is what webcore updates are on OS X). besides that, seen any further development in the last 4 years beyond security updates? IE 7 will be longhorn only, so your argument falls apart.
Oh, come on. Support for large memory is certainly important to me. When is OS X going to catch up here? They did claim (falsely) to have the first 64-bit desktop, didn't they? It wasn't and really isn't still.
umm... windows is playing catchup .http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/
the GUI does not need to be 64 bit to use 64bit memory space or 64 bit integer registers.
Apple must not, then.
Developers already use Cocoa and carbon. MS has to fight with win32 inertia.
Absolutely false. It's for developers to USE for applications ON and FOR XP.
well actually your right.. it will be released for XP in SP3 I am sure right at the release date for longhorn so that again.. win32 inertia will be overcome in the developer community. that is the only reason MS is doing it.
It's called "support".
yeah, and apple does it too, but because they do not have to market a new development paradigm to their developers, they do not need to release all this stuff for the old world OS (which is what XP is compared to longhorn)
Apple does NOT release "all their new technologies" for previous releases - especially not ones dating back to 2001.
well.. when a companies OS that dates back to 2001 is the FLAGSHIP OS, MS has almost no choice but to support it.
keep trolling along, I am having fun.
wow.. you really have no clue what is inside an iMac.
tell you what.. go play in the PC fanboy playground while the grown ups who actually learn about other hardware architectures and platforms before talking about them have a discussion.
go on now.. tie your shoe!
Software Update wouldn't work for me 
.
Quite embarrassing. Usually works like a charm, I'm not used to it not working [I should buy a Linux box to keep the skills sharp].
I'll have to download directly from the website, but I shouldn't actually have to, should I?
Apple's software update is a very smooth operation. It's YOUR choice whether you want to upgrade or not, you're informed about what the upgrade is actually doing. Security issues are addressed as well as patches to the software.
Apple is doing a fine job of it. Microsoft is also addressing many issues, but a lot of them are - by their own admission, I really needn't make it worse than it is - frequently of the 'critical' variety.
On the upgrade from IE 5 to 6: it cannot have been a coincidence that the development of IE stopped as soon as Microsoft had killed off Netscape. There hasn't been a new version of IE in what, 4 years now? And it's still a huge security risk. "IE is an integral part of the operating system" is a great party line and works like a charm to kill the competition, but they haven't done their users many favors by building so much vulnerability into it.
OS X will let you run whatever browser you want, it's not going to break your app because it's not an Apple app. I've had four browsers at one time, but I'm actually very pleased with Safari. If it was bad, I wouldn't use it just because it's an Apple app.
They're doing a great job of developing the platform and I can't wait for the Tiger. It has always been great to drive a Mac, but since Steve came back [and I don't mean to rev up the flame thrower by mentioning him] we've been really spoiled.
Core Audio and Core Image are going to be very strong features.
And I won't mind the $129 that it's going to set me back. Longhorn, whenever this century it's going to be released, is also not going to be cheap because a lot of people have worked an awful long time in developing it. True fans of course know someone who has a cracked version 
[my standard reply to a Windows faithful of my acquaintance who adores Microsoft software, he just doesn't want to pay for it - it's great to hear him say how expensive Apple is *wicked grin*].
"Can I update the internal cards? No. "
Can I update the internals of most PC laptops? NO. Does the majority of PC laptops come with FireWire? NO
Don't even start on the video for laptops because for the majority of PC laptops you can't. But you mentioned that a laptop was more upgradeable than a Mini so I thought I would bring up the display, you should have mentioned upgradeable mobility video cards on some PC laptops.
"Actually, it doesn't. Xserve uses a different chipset/power supply. "
Heatsink and cooling systems are shared, the iMac G5 is cooled by a convection system primarily and the XServe uses fans with a higher duty cycle. The iMac G5 is essentially a 1U with an LCD attached to it. Your comment is stating the obvious for the whole Mac line, of course the Mini and a PowerMac G5 have different chipsets and power supplies but what we were discussing was the iMac and XServe similarities which you said were none. By the way that is not the only thing they share.
So in an article on upgrading 10.3.9 why bother telling everybody how great and update abundant Windows is? What is your point other than to Troll? Have you updated to 10.3.9 ?
"Quicktime is a platform, not just the player, so yes, it is."
Most of the other APIs aren't backported. As a customer of Apple, you shouldn't be defending that.
"Umm... XP had a firewall when it was released in 2001... MS changed it in SP2 to be on by default. that is a security patch."
That wasn't the only change to the firewall.
"yeah, and apple does it too"
Not for anywhere near as long as MS.
"well.. when a companies OS that dates back to 2001 is the FLAGSHIP OS, MS has almost no choice but to support it."
Because a version number is oh so important. XP from 2001 is not XP from now.
"that is the only reason MS is doing it."
You can mindread?
"keep trolling along, I am having fun. "
Learn the definition of "trolling".
"the GUI does not need to be 64 bit to use 64bit memory space or 64 bit integer registers. "
MS isn't playing "catch-up" here. Windows has been 64-bit for several years now. Having to split a GUI and the backend like that is a real pain.
"IE 7 will be longhorn only, so your argument falls apart."
You don't know that. MS hasn't said.
"wow.. you really have no clue what is inside an iMac. "
So, the iMac is an SMP system that supports ECC RAM, right. Not.
"tell you what.. go play in the PC fanboy playground while the grown ups who actually learn about other hardware architectures and platforms before talking about them have a discussion. "
I've used Macs enough and can read.
"go on now.. tie your shoe!"
Considering what you're so proud of doing for a living, you shouldn't throw stones.
"Can I update the internals of most PC laptops? NO."
The Mac Mini isn't a laptop. What I SAID (over your head, apparently) is that the Mini has all the disadvantages of a laptop with none of the benefits.
"Does the majority of PC laptops come with FireWire? NO "
Actually, yes. Mine certainly does. Although, USB2 is becoming more popular. What does Fireware have to do with this?
"Don't even start on the video for laptops because for the majority of PC laptops you can't."
I said no such thing, but then you don't "read the articles".
" iMac and XServe similarities which you said were none."
An iMac is NOT an Xserve in a different case.
"So in an article on upgrading 10.3.9 why bother telling everybody how great and update abundant Windows is?"
I was merely countering the suggestion that Apple's upgrade treadmill was superior. I didn't bring up MS first.
"What is your point other than to Troll?"
Learn the definition of "troll".
"Have you updated to 10.3.9 ?"
Nope. I have updated to IRIX 6.5.23.
Trolls, please get off this thread. It is for Mac users to determine if doing the update has any issues. Thank you.
I am done with you... you continue to miss the point and argue in circles.
go play by ourself in the corner please and leave everyone alone.
So much Anger from PC users. Anger leads to HATE, HATE LEADS TO FEAR, FEAR LEADS TO XP.
"I am done with you... you continue to miss the point and argue in circles."
You really DID miss my point.
(1) Corporations do not buy OS upgrades.
(2) They want to stay supported.
(3) Apple doesn't support OS X releases as long as MS does for Windows. This is a fact.
Case in point: your big "but they support 10.2"! 10.2 is less than 3 years old and (based on past performance) will be dropped when 10.4 is released. MS still supports the age-equivalent of Mac OS X 10.0 -> Windows 2000. Paid support is still available for NT4!
If Apple still supported 10.0, you'd have a point. They don't and you don't. That Apple doesn't provide this support is one reason (not the only one) they have nearly zero penetration in the enterprise segment and such abysmal market share. What I find amusing is that you, an Apple customer, vocally support this gravy train for Apple at your own expense....
"go play by ourself in the corner please and leave everyone alone."
Are you 4? Seriously?
"Trolls, please get off this thread. It is for Mac users to determine if doing the update has any issues. Thank you."
Do you post the same statement agains Mac users who pop up in every article involving Windows updates? I'm betting not.
Regardless, learn the definition of "troll". Thank you.