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Thanks to the outstanding Ubuntu's LiveCD layout doing such Mono-goodie was a lot easier. Anyway, congratulations for the authors, I hope I can spread it around my .NET programming friends.

Mono to become key component of GNOME 3 read here:

http://galaxy.osnews.com/email.php?blog_id=979

In no way. The post suggest he wants that. End.

Seeing as it is known how to get Mono running on Ubuntu, why don't they include it on the standard Ubuntu live cd? It is free and Free software after all.

This is a really nice way to present both Mono and eventually Linux to the .Net crowd.

Great jorb. Let's see how it runs, as soon as I finish downloading it...

Because we didn't want to wait 6 months for all the newest apps to get on the live cd.

Also, the web apps that we included would likely never get on the ubuntu cd.

The CD highlights Mono applications in action. For example, we include pictures in F-spot on the cd, some public-domain music already in the muine play list. Tomboy notes have some helpful hints on getting things working. It is much more than the stock ubuntu cd.

> In no way. The post suggest he wants that.

He also has the powers in achieving this goal. Novell is stronger and has more power than Red Hat or Sun and Novell are the legal owner of GNOME.

Because mono is currently in universe. Only applications in main/restricted would be included on the LiveCD. I suppose in time mono may be promoted to main if there's enough drive for it.

Ubuntu is very heavy on Python, so this may not come very quickly. However, the beauty of it is that Python can run under Mono! So even if Ubuntu develops a lot of stuff in Python, and others in C#, it'll all be able to be used together anyway in the future. Great stuff.

Breezy has/will have it in main.

the beauty of it is that Python can run under Mono

How?

BTW, is Boo included in this LiveCD?

Iron python does that (though it is still beta)

Boo is not included, we wanted to get this out the door and didn't want to wait for boo to be done.

However, we do have boo rpms for all rpm based distros.

Good answers

Are IKVM and some of the alternate languages like IronPython or Nemerle included? These shouldn't take much space, and would be a good demo of what Mono can do for developers.

Not yet. They were not yet packaged by ubuntu, so we didn't have time to include them in the cd.

However I hope they get added soon.

I am also hoping to get snorp's ipod# and jlj's sharpmusique on there. We had a bit of a mess over the weekend when ipod# corruped my ipod when I was trying it out this weekend, so we decided to wait a bit before subjecting others to it :-).

Python HARDLY runs under Mono.

As in a "Don't use it for anything serious" type of HARDLY.

What's up with the hidden text:
This CD also contains the files necessary to install Mono on Windows computers. This allows you to expore the framework without installing a Linux desktop, and begin developing cross-platform applications with Mono and Gtk# today.

Python runs great on Mono.

Now I can test out my .NET apps on this live CD w/o having to worry about partitoning for a Linux Distro...God Bless!

Does it come with the ASP.NET server? and the MonoDevelop app?

ASP.net -- Yes! we even have some apps running out of the box, using the database (monodoc web server, blogx, ngallery, asp.net forums).

Monodevelop -- Yes, version 0.7

Chris, thanks for catching that. Messed up my style...It's fixed now.

Anyone know of a good live CD for Wxpython work?

I would like to see a live CD showing gcj 4 and eclipse in Ubuntu.

Wheee...look at the memory comsumption of those Mono apps. Now imagine a full Mono desktop...running for a few users.

There is a distro of python that runs from one executable, and it comes with wxpython, spe and the full python libraries, http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/movpy/

Now, what would do really good to oss would be parrot and mono guys get together and build one virtual machine to rule then all. (with python, c#, ruby, perl and maybe even js, or even better, java).

If you are looking at memory on the ram disk, it is a bit unfair. things have to be uncompressed, meaning more than is usually read from disk gets put into memory.

I'd also remind you that large applications *written in C* are as bad or worse than the Mono apps: nautilus, evolution, etc.

<<He also has the powers in achieving this goal.>>

Miguel does NOT have that kind of power.

<< Novell is stronger and has more power than Red Hat or Sun>.

Are you joking? Red Hat is seeing double digit growth and Sun has more than $7 Billion sitting in the bank. Novell has been losing money for years and is continuing to.

<<Novell are the legal owner of GNOME.>>

What the....? How did you come to that conclusion?

i've done a beagle interface written completly in python
witch uses PyLucene to search inside beagle indexers.
time elapsed 2 hours....
no mono no gtk-sharp no trash
http://img185.echo.cx/img185/4640/pybeagle22ow.png
http://img185.echo.cx/img185/2800/pybeagl30bo.png

Awesome! Is it available for download?

Oh wow, a text box and a list view.

*thumbs up*

wow this is i good idea.
are you using beagled daemon to index contents ?

Are there plans for a ppc live cd or amd64? i would also like to see a cd for gcj and eclipse, it would be cool if there was 1 cd for mono and gcj ;-)

well, x86-64 handles the x86 cd just fine (in fact, the computer I did testing on was such a box).

jhill said he was going to post his scripts, so if somebody is interested...

I'm afraid to mention this, but Mono hands down has much higher quality mindshare and PR working for it than Java. Why the hell haven't Free Java people done something like this? I've heard that there are tons of Java apps on sourceforge (I don't go there much, so I don't know), why couldn't something like this be done for Java? This boggles my mind. Novell seems to have a leg up when it comes to mindshare. Maybe it is related to traditional Microsoft developers being more enthusiastic about technology similar to what they are used to, only on a GNU/Linux platform? I don't know, seems weird to me.

I don't want to start a Java vs. Mono flamewar, but I felt compelled to get a discussion about mindshare and PR.

Well, I'm afraid to say this too....but Mono is not *free*.

There are two or three basic questions that the Mono team has never answered and never look like they will.

(1) Do they have a patent grant from MSFT?

(2) Why are they continuing to push for Win.Forms when they know MSFT views this as a MS-only technology?

(3) What happened to bonobo (ie COM+/DCOM)?

Please read the FAQ before trolling on OSNews about patents.

http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing#Patents

Your question is easily answered.

Yes, Mono has a lot more mindshare than Java Gnome. There just isn't that much interest in Java among developers for unknown reasons...no matter how much RedHat tries to push it.

And of course Mono is free. You would have to be brain damaged to say it's not.

Then we should all be brain damaged. MS _does_ have patents tied to .Net (not the language standards, but the architecture) which could quite possibly come back and bite us. Saying that it's free just because no-one's tried to enforce the patents yet is like saying that a particular murder was legal because no-one's tried to prosecute you.

Saying that it's free just because no-one's tried to enforce the patents yet is like saying...

So every program, larger than a few lines, is not free, because you always probably infringe patents if you write programs.

I've heard that there are tons of Java apps on sourceforge (I don't go there much, so I don't know)

But how much of them work in a free environment?
Sadly, only few java programmers care about the environment on which there program run and code on proprietary environments like sun java.

Is it that the mono package itself uses substancial memory or is there a memory leak some where?

no matter how much RedHat tries to push it.

I don't know where you got the idea RedHat is pushing Java/Java-Gnome that much. Do you know how many RedHat developers are being paid to work on those projects? It's not as many as you think, you bet. RedHat has been trying to not start a "Java/Mono war", because they think that would be a loss for the whole community.

But how much of them work in a free environment?
Sadly, only few java programmers care about the environment on which there program run and code on proprietary environments like sun java.

That's true, but that also shows how much public/potential Java has.

The reason is, most Java developers do not care about OS. Linux, Solaris, Mac, windows whatever. Os can be proprietary or free. People works in Linux too, but they would not care if it is Solaris either. After all it work in all of them without "but..."'s

The desktop applications (like Beagle) can easily be done in Java too (remember that core of that application is Lucene, a Java based library) and there are applications available already.
like ( http://www.groxis.com/ and http://aduna.biz/products/autofocus/personal/index.html )

Problem is the "linux" developer community if you ask. neither Java nor Mono cannot enter many of the short-sighted minds of those developers just because they are not "free enough"..

I didn't mean to imply that. My point was that any full blown implementation of another company's tech is not a completely safe foundation for a truly Free project.I'm talking about large stuff like Mono, Samba, etc, not patents on printf() and mouse clicks.

Bart:wow this is i good idea.
are you using beagled daemon to index contents ?

yes
i've done a small searcher which uses the indexers shipped
with beagle.
at that time this stuff is only a small demo,im planning to
release all the code very early i tough.
btw im focusing to usability right now that is an example
with the last modifications.
http://img185.echo.cx/img185/2971/pybeagle47ya.png
bye

Show me that Python app that has been written in Mono

damm that screenshot is awesome dude
why don't you release the code ?

Then we should all be brain damaged. MS _does_ have patents tied to .Net (not the language standards, but the architecture) which could quite possibly come back and bite us. Saying that it's free just because no-one's tried to enforce the patents yet is like saying that a particular murder was legal because no-one's tried to prosecute you.
Show me these patents. Until you do this, I will continue to use Mono.

I didn't mean to imply that. My point was that any full blown implementation of another company's tech is not a completely safe foundation for a truly Free project.I'm talking about large stuff like Mono, Samba,etc

or large stuff like the whole GNU/Linux System, a " full blown implementation of another company's tech" namely Unix.

If you do a search on "microsoft .net patents" you will find the applications. That is a key point - at the moment, they are still just applications. MS hasn't issued a formal statement on their position simply because they don't yet have a granted patent in their hands. Until MS is granted these patents, we'll all be left hanging.

Assuming MS is granted the patents (and given the USPTO, there's no reason to believe they won't), MS needs to put an official legal notice on their site like Nokia just did. Otherwise, you run the risk of sometime down the road being sued for patent infringement.

Patents aren't like trademarks - you don't lose them if you don't enforce them. You can say you won't do anything, let people infringe all you want for years, then sue them all. It's perfectly legal and you'll probably lose if you try to fight it.

Knowing there are patents on what you are doing (and who doesn't know MS is patenting C#/.NET by now) and still doing it anyway is WILLFUL INFRINGEMENT and an automatic triple damages. It's in MS's interests to spread knowledge of their patent applications and make it seem like they won't enforce them. As long as they don't make a legal declaration, you're completely screwed years down the road.

As for MS's statements, MS hasn't made one as a company. All you have is the word of an MS employee on his own blog. That wouldn't hold in any court. So until the Mono team has a signed statement from an official MS lawyer in their hands, anything goes!

It PROBABLY won't be an issue, but I usually do my gambling in computer poker/blackjack games, not my programming.

We see people winging about Software Patents.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

When are you going to realise that the LAW is there to serve society and not the other way around. Get out there and use the tools YOU want to work with minus encumberance. If the masses use Mono and MS comes out firing then the masses can mobilise the Legal systems globally to put them back in their place. We can all agree that software patents are a racket placed on us by a dodgy Beaurocratic practice being supported by the money of Corporations. Once tested in courts of Law on a very large scale they will be dismissed or there will be a choice for programmers to F-Off and see computing stagnate beyond belief. Copyright for software in place economically justified, YES. Software Patents on vague concepts and code not even written, NO.

Just get out there in the mean time and code if that is your thing. Until that time, who gives a shit? Critical Mass and Action are what counts not Winging.

Cya on the other side and have fun.

Mentioning valid concerns some number of times is ok. But if each and everytime mono is mentioned we get a chorus of people pretending to have found some profound 'Truth' of mono as regards Microsofts potential plans regarding as yet unassigned patents -which in and of itself is totally absurd-it makes it impossible to actually discuss the technology at hand.

Could those of you who insist on participating in the EVIL $MS WILL SUE YOUR UNBORN CHILDREN FOR PATENT INFRINGEMENT please go elsewhere and quit wasting my time with your verbal masturbation.

Thanks in advance...

Um, anyway, back to the actual topic. Why do we have mono-live, monoppix, and gnome livecds?

And why not include boo and nemerle? They are "done", and there are MonoDevelop addins available for both.

And heck if IronPython actually does work on Mono, it wouldn't harm anything to include it as well. Microsoft could use a little more publicity.