Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 7th Jul 2005 13:21 UTC, submitted by Hugo
Games One of the things lacking on Linux is breadth of native commercial games. That's where emulating (or re-implementing) the host enviroment that the game was created for with Cedega (or WINE) comes in.
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Not an emulator.
by Milo_Hoffman on Thu 7th Jul 2005 14:19 UTC
Milo_Hoffman
Member since:
2005-07-06

Once again.. Wine is NOT an emulator. It's a set of libraries that are compatible with Windows and allow applications on Linux to use the same API calls as those on Windows. It does not "emulate" anything, windows applications are running NATIVELY on Linux with WINE.


It's the same idea as OpenGL. OpenGL libraries provide the same API calls for programs running on Windows as on Linux, MacOS, or other OS's.

/preaching over

Reply Score: 5

RE: Not an emulator.
by Anonymous on Thu 7th Jul 2005 18:58 UTC in reply to "Not an emulator."
Anonymous Member since:
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Which is why it states "That's where emulating (or re-implementing)".

WINE is a re-implementation of the Windows API's.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Not an emulator.
by Anonymous on Fri 8th Jul 2005 12:30 UTC in reply to "RE: Not an emulator."
Anonymous Member since:
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That's like saying Apache emulates the first HTTP server, or that Firefox emulates MSIE which emulates NCSA Mosaic (or whatever the first browser is).

Reply Score: 0

Mixed Success
by Anthony on Thu 7th Jul 2005 14:44 UTC
Anthony
Member since:
2005-07-07

I have had mixed success with Wine. I have managed to get Knights of the Old Republic II working flawlesly. I have had issues with a couple of other games though. I am using Gentoo 64-bit. That could have something to do with it. I seem to have better luck on my other system that has 32 bit gentoo. I haven't tried Wine on that system.

Reply Score: 2

What's the point?
by polaris20 on Thu 7th Jul 2005 15:37 UTC
polaris20
Member since:
2005-07-06

Would you rather mess with getting stuff to work in an environment that's not meant to run this stuff, or would you rather run a dualboot XP/Linux box with a slipstreamed XP install, no media player, no OE, no IE, NIC disabled?

I just think that either companies should support Linux and do a port for it without WINE (the obviously preferable solution) or just keep WinXP around for gaming.

Reply Score: 1

RE: What's the point?
by ma_d on Thu 7th Jul 2005 17:51 UTC in reply to "What's the point?"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

When companies start just supporting Linux that will be fine; until then some nice hackers have found ways to get around this inadequacy.

It has nothing to do with how well the system is designed for games. Windows is horribly designed for games. Seriously:
It maps keys we all hate. How many gamers have ripped that Windows key off their keyboards?
It "needs" anti-virus which slows down your games load times.
There's no way to just run the game, you have to have explorer running too: So you need a tiny bit of extra power for that: Yea, tiny.

It was never designed for games in the first place. The only reason games are written for it is because device drivers are written for it. And device drivers are written for it because everyone is using it; which is another reason games are written for it!
The only thing non-hostile to games in Windows is DirectX....

And what does slip-streamed install discs have to do with anything?

Reply Score: 1

RE: What's the point?
by Anonymous on Thu 7th Jul 2005 16:10 UTC
Anonymous
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well some of us don't like having to shut down our computers everytime we want to play a game (there by preventing any work from happening in the background like downloading or low priority number crunching)

Reply Score: 0

RE: What's the point?
by Anonymous on Thu 7th Jul 2005 16:39 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Some of us don't want to pay for Windows just to be able to play the games we want. And we don't want to pirate it either.

CaptainN

Reply Score: 1

dual boot
by Anonymous on Thu 7th Jul 2005 16:39 UTC
Anonymous
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While dual booting may be a solution, its certainly not the preferable one. I do have an XP system around for gaming, but it sure would be nice to be able to do everyting under one OS. Sooner or later, game developers will realize that they need to make Linux versions of their games as the OS becomes more popular. At least id has the right idea. You can get a Linux version of Doom 3 and all of the Quake games IIRC.

Reply Score: 0

Cedega
by Andrew Youll on Thu 7th Jul 2005 16:51 UTC
Andrew Youll
Member since:
2005-06-29

I am a subscriber to Transgaming, i use Cedega, with Point2Play, and i find it useful, but like others i have mixed success.

With some distributions it doesn't work correctly due to an insufficient pthread stack size (namely VidaLinux 1.1).

Some games seem to install Okay but refuse to play.

But Overall i think its a decent worth while product but id check the compatibility DB vigorously before subscribing

Reply Score: 5

polaris20
Member since:
2005-07-06

but neither is WINE. Developers need to follow id's direction, and port for Linux.

Reply Score: 2

Cedega is crap...
by Anonymous on Thu 7th Jul 2005 21:13 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Cedega is a waste of money. Let's see the number of games that I was NOT able to get working:

Diablo
Diablo 2
Half Life
Morrowind
Quake III

Thankfully StarCraft and Broodwars work well (but hey, they work well under Wine, so...)

I don't play many games, but I have oldies and favourites from years gone by, that are still perfectly playable.

I've managed to get Diablo working, but it's what I'd consider a very ugly hack.

And yes, I'm using a pirate version of Cedega, I wouldn't pay US $5/month for crap like this.

I'd rather see games developers get off their asses and port the games to run natively in Linux. ID Software, has the right idea. Good on you, ID Software!

Dave

Reply Score: 0

@ma_d
by polaris20 on Thu 7th Jul 2005 22:58 UTC
polaris20
Member since:
2005-07-06

"And what does slip-streamed install discs have to do with anything?"

Dualbooting Linux for general purpose stuff (everything but games) and using WinXP for games would work quite well.

Slipstreaming the XP install allows the removal of services you don't want running in Windows, and you don't have to install a NIC driver, and thus don't need to install AV software. Afterall, you're not connected to a network, not checking e-mail, not surfing the net from the XP partition.

This works well for my purposes, in which I use it for a pro audio box, with nothing but audio apps. Nothing to slow things down, and no spyware or virus headaches.

Updates to software on the XP partition can be done by downloading in Linux and copying over to the FAT32 partition of XP, or if you use NTFS, get an NTFS mounter and do that.

No, it's not super convenient, but it's better than F'ing around trying to get WINE (or Cedega) working well. I can handle the miniscule amount of time it take my Athlon to reboot.

Reply Score: 1

They got the right idea..
by Mr. Tan on Fri 8th Jul 2005 00:41 UTC
Mr. Tan
Member since:
2005-07-08

but there are still some bugs to fixed.. especially flickering problems and installshield problems. The only game that I have managed to get working was Warcraft III Frozen Throne and Diablo II, and that was in Mandrake
9.1, haven't tried it yet with other distributions.
Although its a good idea to keep a xp partition, its just too much hassle, but it all boils down to what your accustomed.

Reply Score: 1

Games I was able to get working
by Anonymous on Fri 8th Jul 2005 01:13 UTC
Anonymous
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>Cedega is a waste of money. Let's see the number of games that I was NOT able to get working:


Odd, I got all those games working, except for Quake II which I didn't need, since I have the Linux version. Played Diablo II all the way through including LOD.

>And yes, I'm using a pirate version of Cedega

Then you have no standing to complain about anything at all.

Reply Score: 0

@ Anonymous (IP: 216.96.72.---)
by Anonymous on Fri 8th Jul 2005 03:13 UTC
Anonymous
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Quote: "Then you have no standing to complain about anything at all."

Au Contrare, why would I pay for something that doesn't work? That is my point, which you have obviously failed to understand.

Would I fork out $5 US /month for something that doesn't deliver? I think not.

As an aside, does Transgaming give back to the WINE project? I don't believe that they do. They've taken the base WINE code, and built on it, and if they haven't given anything back, that's not very good.

Furthermore, payment methods. They are not indicated on the website (not without having to actually enter data in first), but I do not have a credit card, and Australia doesn't have paypal access. So, how do I pay? I suspect that Transgaming would say tough luck to a customer like me - you either have credit card or use paypal.

Furthermore, I honestly believe that projects like Cedega endanger the very software vendors from porting their games and applications to run natively in Linux, which is a much better way of doing things.

BTW I've used a pirate version of Cedega to test how well it actually works. Point2Play doesn't function, so it's pretty much the same as what i'd grab from CVS.

Dave

Reply Score: 1

@ Anonymous (IP: 61.8.17.---)
by Andrew Youll on Fri 8th Jul 2005 06:25 UTC
Andrew Youll
Member since:
2005-06-29

does Transgaming give back to the WINE project? I don't believe that they do

Cedega is based on WINE from the BSD License days, so it doesnt have to contribute back, in an ideal world it would do.

Furthermore, I honestly believe that projects like Cedega endanger the very software vendors from porting their games and applications to run natively in Linux, which is a much better way of doing things.

how did you figure that one out? if anything wouldn't "your" experiences make vendors more likely to port? as you say Cedega is crap and doesnt work.

BTW I've used a pirate version of Cedega to test how well it actually works. Point2Play doesn't function, so it's pretty much the same as what i'd grab from CVS.

the old i use pirate version of [app x] to test it before i buy. Point2Play does work, i've had it working on 24 different distributions, have you made sure you have GTK+, pyGTK+, and the other dependancies installed?

only time Cedega will really refuse to work is if your distro of chose has a pthread stack that isnt sufficent.

Reply Score: 5

@ Andrew Youll
by morgoth on Fri 8th Jul 2005 08:56 UTC
morgoth
Member since:
2005-07-08

Quote: "Cedega is based on WINE from the BSD License days, so it doesnt have to contribute back, in an ideal world it would do."

Yes, I realise this. That's why I made my comment. This is why a BSD license is unnacceptable for Open Source software in my honest opinion. They take, they steal, they use, they abuse, and they don't give back. If Transgaming had started Cedega from scratch, they wouldn't be nowhere near where they are now. This is ultimately, why the GPL is a better license than the BSD license. It *makes* those who take give back to the community that gave to them. Share unto others.

Quote: "how did you figure that one out? if anything wouldn't "your" experiences make vendors more likely to port? as you say Cedega is crap and doesnt work."

Possibly, but not likely. Most people play the "latest and greatest". This is the stuff that Transgaming will work on. People who play older games generally will get screwed by such a system. At one time Diablo played perfectly I believe. Over time, Cedega has morphed, has been adjusted and modified to support newer games, at the expense of many older games. So, as a *potential* customer, I'm being treated with disdain for my choice in games being from older stock. This is not good.

Quote: "Point2Play does work"

Sure, it does. It loads fine. I can't do jack with it unless I email them to get a registration code to run it. Or something like that. I fired it up, had a quick look at it, spent a minute or so, no more and gave up on it and got rid of it. It's not a dependency issue etc. I'm smart enough to figure that out if I have to. But thanks for the suggestions, it could have been what you'd suggested, so better to mention it than presume.

Other than that, I find Cedega hangs. If I start Diablo with it, finish up and exit and go to start the game up again a bit later, it just purely hangs. I'm running on a 2.6 kernel (2.6.11-4), but I suspect it's not any issues with the kernel. I'm running a Libranet 3 GNU/Linux beta, which has been updated to Debian Sarge, with a select number of packages from testing, unstable and experimental. Interestingly, wine hasn't been working for a fair while on this system, I haven't tried tracing it yet, but I should most probably pull the finger out and strace it. Thanks for the prompt ;-)

I'm not a huge gamer, I'm very sporadic to say the least, so for myself investing money into something like Cedega it's not really worth it. I just don't play enough to justify the cost I think.

Dave

Reply Score: 1

selling point
by Anonymous on Fri 8th Jul 2005 15:48 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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I would like to know where in Europe i could buy cedega other than in a freakin online store.

Reply Score: 0

I think that......
by polaris20 on Fri 8th Jul 2005 16:04 UTC
polaris20
Member since:
2005-07-06

Every app available for Windows should be available for Linux, with no intermediate tool like WINE. I want to walk into BestBuy and get Jedi Academy for Linux, and perhaps Sony Acid for Linux.

Yeah that's it.

*Holds breath*

=)

Reply Score: 1

@ Anonymous (IP: 61.8.17.---)
by Anonymous on Sat 9th Jul 2005 09:07 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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>Au Contrare, why would I pay for something that doesn't work? That is my point, which you have obviously failed to understand.

I understood just fine. You're completely wrong about Cedega not working (everything you listed as not working does in-fact work just fine for me) and your a thief with no logical standing to complain about the quality of goods you've stolen.

>As an aside, does Transgaming give back to the WINE project? I don't believe that they do.

How conventient to base your comments on belief rather than find out the facts. And yes, you're wrong about that too.

Reply Score: 0

@ Anonymous (IP: 216.96.72.---)
by morgoth on Sun 10th Jul 2005 04:09 UTC
morgoth
Member since:
2005-07-08

Quote: "You're completely wrong about Cedega not working"

I think I'm quite capable of working out what works, and what doesn't work. I'm not going to spend endless hours troubleshooting something to *try* and get it work either. If Transgaming wants to sell a product, then they can support it. They want to make money but not support the product, then I won't use it, nor will I recommend it.

Quote: "and your a thief with no logical standing to complain about the quality of goods you've stolen. "

Fuck off. Transgaming is a bloody well thief for taking Wine's hard work and not contributing back. I'm doing to them, what they did to Wine. I suppose you like BSD licenses as well, you sound like a BSD user.

Dave

Reply Score: 1