Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 18th Jul 2005 12:21 UTC
Gnome GNOME 2.11.5 has been released. As with the Linux kernel, odd-numbered versions indicate development releases. Download: platform, desktop, and bindings.
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v Hmm
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 12:29 UTC
cool, how about a review?
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 12:35 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

I know this is a development build, but I'd love to see a review of this build on OSNews.... and the most recent snapshot of KDE, for that matter.

I think bleeding-edge Desktop Environment reviews give some readers here what they're looking for: a glimpse into the future of OSS world. Linux Distro reviews tend to be a lot of the same thing...

Reply Score: 5

RE: cool, how about a review?
by dukeinlondon on Mon 18th Jul 2005 12:52 UTC in reply to "cool, how about a review?"
dukeinlondon Member since:
2005-07-06

Yeah, distros are a lot of the same thing anyway

Reply Score: 1

New features
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 12:53 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

You can see there some new features:

http://live.gnome.org/ReleasesNotes2p12Items

Most interesting things reading the list fo me:

- share of bookmark using zeroconf (epiphany).
- mozilla plugin for totem
- include evince (document viewer, to replace the really bugy gnome ps/pdf viewer)

Reply Score: 4

gDesklets
by pailhead on Mon 18th Jul 2005 13:21 UTC
pailhead
Member since:
2005-07-06

Isn't gDesklets getting integrated into GNOME in the future? I thought I read somewhere that it was now being included. What release are they being included if they in face are?

Reply Score: 1

RE: gDesklets
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 14:29 UTC in reply to "gDesklets"
Anonymous Member since:
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I really hope this doesn't happen for a while. The last time I tried to install gDesklets the install failed. I ended up building it from source. Then all the desklets I downloaded failed. The whole thing was a bust. It has to get *way* more stable first IMHO.

-mark

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: gDesklets
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 14:42 UTC in reply to "RE: gDesklets"
Anonymous Member since:
---

Yes, I'd like to see Gdesklets a litle more stable before gets included in GNOME, I don't see any hurry, after all Gdesklets is only for eyecandy.

Reply Score: 1

RE: gDesklets
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 18:54 UTC in reply to "gDesklets"
Anonymous Member since:
---

We (the gD developers) want to stay independent from GNOME. We're working on gDesklets to make it a common desktop applet system for the Linux desktop. In the past we have been talking with the adesklets team to work on a common ADL (= Applet Description Language).
Since gDesklets is not very easy to compile for some unexperienced people it's usually not really wise to ship gDesklets with GNOME. I also want to add, that our API is changing quite often. It'll still take some time until the API will become stable.

Cheers,
Christian

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: gDesklets
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 03:29 UTC in reply to "RE: gDesklets"
Anonymous Member since:
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So, like everyone said, gdesklets are unstable and immature. My experience, most people's experience.

Reply Score: 0

v RE: New features
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 13:23 UTC
RE[2]: New features
by Rehdon on Mon 18th Jul 2005 13:31 UTC in reply to "RE: New features"
Rehdon Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't think that's a complete list of all new features that we will see in Gnome 2.12 ("just a list that will be used to make the actual release notes"). It's not intended to impress anyone, either.

rehdon

Reply Score: 1

v gnome have more bugs opened
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 13:38 UTC
pfffffff
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 13:48 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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> - share of bookmark using zeroconf (epiphany).

I don't see anything else in GNOME that shares bookmarks with anything. Neither with Epiphany, Galeon, Nautilus, GThumb, <add custom GNOME app with own bookmark format here>. And why ZeroConf and not normal XBEL format, so you could have been able to share bookmarks with Konqueror or even Safari ?

Reply Score: 0

...
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 14:12 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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DVD menus and subtitle support

My favorite.

Reply Score: 3

RE: ...
by Best on Tue 19th Jul 2005 22:28 UTC in reply to "..."
Best Member since:
2005-07-09

realize that thats for the gstreamer backend of totem, the totem backend has been able to handle this since totem came out.

Reply Score: 1

128mb
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 14:42 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

AFAIR, 2.12 should contain a ``small foot-print".

In pratice some efforts should have been done to let gnome run better with 128mb of ram.

Hope it was not 2.14 ... ;-)

Reply Score: 0

New features: gtk 2.8 and cairo
by GhePeU on Mon 18th Jul 2005 14:43 UTC
GhePeU
Member since:
2005-07-06

Probably (it's not sure, yet) Gnome 2.12 will include gtk+ 2.8, the first cairo-based release of the toolkit.

Reply Score: 3

RE: New features: gtk 2.8 and cairo
by orestes on Mon 18th Jul 2005 16:08 UTC in reply to "New features: gtk 2.8 and cairo"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

I'll be extremely curious to see the performance implications of that decision.

Reply Score: 2

Anonymous Member since:
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rpm -qa | egrep '(gtk2|cairo|gnome-desktop)'
gtk2-engines-2.6.3-3
cairo-0.5.1-5
gtk2-devel-2.7.2-1
gnome-desktop-2.11.4-1
gnome-desktop-devel-2.11.4-1
cairo-devel-0.5.1-5
gtk2-2.7.2-1


Currently rawhide doesn't have gtk 2.8 "yet" but from user perception, seems to be good.

Reply Score: 0

orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

Nice. Maybe I'll upgrade my FC4 box to rawhide when I get home.

Reply Score: 1

GhePeU Member since:
2005-07-06

I used for a while gtk+ 2.7.2 and pango 1.9.0 and there weren't visible regressions: my impression is that performance are at least equals to gtk+ 2.6, but I have to admit that I didn't try specific benchmarks (à la gtkperf).
I reverted because pango doesn't support dpi settings and I use 84 dpi instead of 96 dpi, but this will be fixed soon.

Reply Score: 1

how to update ubuntu
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 15:03 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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I am using ubuntu (warth dog something)a nd how do I update to latest gnome. I tried dist update but none were available. Even firefox is at 1.0.2. I reloaded package list but it doesnt show any updates.

Reply Score: 0

RE: how to update ubuntu
by Stunami on Mon 18th Jul 2005 15:40 UTC in reply to "how to update ubuntu"
Stunami Member since:
2005-07-06

The ubuntu documentation is pretty good
You want to follow
https://wiki.ubuntu.com//HoaryUpgradeNotes

HTH

Reply Score: 1

v another useless gnome spot
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 15:56 UTC
RE: another useless gnome spot
by GhePeU on Mon 18th Jul 2005 15:59 UTC in reply to "another useless gnome spot"
GhePeU Member since:
2005-07-06

when osnews will provide a decent coverage for
kde owned by 70% of linux users ?


http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=11228&threshold=-5&limit=...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: another useless gnome spot
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 22:26 UTC in reply to "RE: another useless gnome spot"
Anonymous Member since:
---

I think 70% might be a little, shall we say, "optimistic". If you'd like some coverage, why not write an article and send it in?

Reply Score: 0

Custom errors
by youknowmewell on Mon 18th Jul 2005 16:25 UTC
youknowmewell
Member since:
2005-07-08

The custom error pages look pretty impressive. Even better than the feature is the example they use ;) Still, linking to the internet archive or google cache is a custom error is pretty cool.

Reply Score: 1

v pfffffff
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 17:11 UTC
RE: pfffffff
by unoengborg on Mon 18th Jul 2005 23:44 UTC in reply to "pfffffff"
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06


And why ZeroConf and not normal XBEL format, so you could have been able to share bookmarks with Konqueror or even Safari ?


This new zeroconf sharing feature and XBEL stuff addresses different problems. XBEL is the commonn file format, the zeroconf sturff is for sharing.

Reply Score: 1

v KDE ahead even on OpenSolaris
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 17:13 UTC
RE[3]: gDesklets
by pailhead on Mon 18th Jul 2005 17:14 UTC
pailhead
Member since:
2005-07-06

I've been running it here on my ubuntu desktop and it's been pretty stable. The only issue is translucency issue which isn't gDesklets but the gdm.

Reply Score: 1

v RE: The market
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 17:17 UTC
v Anonymous Coward
by Mystilleef on Mon 18th Jul 2005 17:21 UTC
LiveCD
by Mystilleef on Mon 18th Jul 2005 17:23 UTC
Mystilleef
Member since:
2005-06-29

I'd like to see a LiveCD for this release.

Reply Score: 1

v pfffffff
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 17:32 UTC
RE: pfffffff
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 18:50 UTC in reply to "pfffffff"
Anonymous Member since:
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This will let people on the LAN optionally share each other's bookmarks with each other.

Reply Score: 0

v KDE ahead even on OpenSolaris
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 17:33 UTC
RE: KDE ahead even on OpenSolaris
by orestes on Mon 18th Jul 2005 17:42 UTC in reply to "KDE ahead even on OpenSolaris"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

Remind me again how comments on the percieved number of people who use KDE on OpenSolaris has any relevance to a discussion of a development release of GNOME.

Reply Score: 1

Anonymous Member since:
---

> Remind me again how comments on the percieved number of
> people who use KDE on OpenSolaris has any relevance to
> a discussion of a development release of GNOME.

You see that the log below has GNOME.org as domain name ? Isn't it enough for a connection ?

http://blogs.gnome.org/view/calum/2005/07/18/0

Reply Score: 0

orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

Frankly, no. Unless we happen to be playing six degrees of GNOME and nobody bothered to mention it to me.

Reply Score: 0

v RE: The market
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 18:20 UTC
RE[2]: The market
by carbon-12 on Mon 18th Jul 2005 18:43 UTC in reply to "RE: The market"
carbon-12 Member since:
2005-07-06

LOL Ali your C&Ping from a post 3 days ago. Can't come up with new FUD so you just have to recycle old posts?

http://osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=11239&threshold=-5&limit=no#5...

MODs why are your letting Ali get away with this.

Reply Score: 1

@Anonymous (IP: 84.129.217.---)
by carbon-12 on Mon 18th Jul 2005 18:39 UTC
carbon-12
Member since:
2005-07-06

Ali get a life! If your constant trolling wasn't enough, your now double posting to avoid being modded down.

You are such an incredible loser. If your so overcome with disgust with Gnome then don't even read the thread. Are you too stupid to even do that?!?! I hate KDE but you don't see me spewing garbage on KDE threads.

+1 permanent ban on Ali

Reply Score: 1

chakie Member since:
2005-07-06

Ali get a life! If your constant trolling wasn't enough, your now double posting to avoid being modded down.

You are such an incredible loser. If your so overcome with disgust with Gnome then don't even read the thread. Are you too stupid to even do that?!?! I hate KDE but you don't see me spewing garbage on KDE threads.


Yeah, I'm a KDE guy myself, but it's always interesting to read what happens in the GNOME camp. Trolls like the above are just plain stupid, they don't make anything better. I wish there was some kind of banning or filtering feature on OSNews that would automatically get rid of these.

Unfortunately there are similar trolls in most KDE related articles too, but that's another story.

Reply Score: 1

g2devi Member since:
2005-07-09

I'd have to agree. I'm firmly in the GNOME camp -- it just works the way I work and KDE doesn't.

This isn't a slight on KDE. People who choose KDE have similar reasons for choosing KDE over GNOME. Ditto for XFCE users, Windowmaker users, and EvilWM users.

That being said, I also take a peak over at the KDE camp. I choose GNOME because it works better for me, but if KDE started to become better for me, I'd switch. If a KDE app is better for me than a GNOME app, I'd use the KDE app.

If GNOME is better than KDE (or vice versa) for most people, it'll get more market share. This is free software. A choice isn't imposed on you, even if your distro chooses GNOME or KDE over the other. Trolling and trying to force people to force people into believing "the one true desktop" religion, is fundamentally against what free software stands for -- choice.

In the end, all trolls end up doing is releaving their own stress by passing it on to others in flame wars.

Reply Score: 3

v RE: The market
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 18:54 UTC
cm__ Member since:
2005-07-07

> the KDE class libraries and examples are a brilliant testimony to reusable objects done right.
[...]

Yes, there's excellent technology in KDE but that's no reason for spamming a thread about GNOME with copy'n'pasted stuff. That's obnoxious. Everyone already knows what you think of GNOME.

Why don't you head over to http://bugs.kde.org/ and find a bug or two to fix?

Reply Score: 1

This is how it works
by youknowmewell on Mon 18th Jul 2005 20:06 UTC
youknowmewell
Member since:
2005-07-08

You see, Ali knows that mods have a limited number of points. After they mod down his first volley of trolling and flamebait, he knows that he can send a second volley (identical to the first) with impunity, knowing that nobody has points to mod him down with.

Really, I see this as a way for Ali to continue to pollute his own reputation further. You just know that one day he'll claim that he was such a nice guy, and all he got was flames from the GNOME users and developers. Poor Ali! What did he do to deserve such harsh treatment?

Those that continue to bookmark topics that he continues to poison with his never-ending trolling and completely off-topic posts (all in an attempt to bash GNOME and worship KDE in all its greatness) will have plenty of ammo for that day.

Ali is quite prolific, but he just continues to solidify his reputation as a troll.

Reply Score: 1

v sorry about this...
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 20:19 UTC
v Re: This is how it works
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 20:21 UTC
RE: Re: This is how it works
by youknowmewell on Mon 18th Jul 2005 20:29 UTC in reply to "Re: This is how it works"
youknowmewell Member since:
2005-07-08

How do we know it's him? Because of his ip address, and because of past posts by him. His command of English, although good for a someone using it as a second language, is noticably different from a native speaker's. He has a funny way of saying things, idioms especially.

Funny thing, he talks kind of like you.

Where do you get the idea that anybody is making 'dozens of fake accounts'? You act like there is some grand conspiracy to censor all posts by you... I mean, Ali. People moderate obvious flamebait and offtopic mudslinging appropriately. Why can't Ali praise KDE in a KDE thread instead of bringing KDE up in a GNOME thread without any reason other than to degrade GNOME? What is the motive?

Reply Score: 2

v RE: Re: This is how it works
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 16:17 UTC in reply to "Re: This is how it works"
v Re: RE: Re: This is how it works
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 20:36 UTC
v @youknowmewell
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 21:04 UTC
RE: @youknowmewell
by Best on Tue 19th Jul 2005 22:37 UTC in reply to "@youknowmewell"
Best Member since:
2005-07-09

Thats changing in 2.12, the patch to make nautilus use the same bookmarks as gtk was integrated a while back in the 2.11 branch.

And the last I knew, you really didn't want your web bookmarks and your system bookmarks integrated (just like you don't really want to have your file manager as a web browser.

Reply Score: 2

I see
by youknowmewell on Mon 18th Jul 2005 21:13 UTC
youknowmewell
Member since:
2005-07-08

So you don't think there is anything wrong with praising KDE and slamming GNOME in a GNOME thread?

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=11228&offset=15&rows=21&t...

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=11058&limit=no&threshold=...

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=11183&threshold=-5

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=10712&limit=no&threshold=...

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=10807&limit=no&threshold=...

You know what those topics have in common? They all are bashing GNOME in one way or another. The KDE vs GNOME flamewar is started by Ali in the last thread, and it sparks quite a blaze.

You know what else they have in common? No GNOME people praising GNOME and bashing KDE for no reason at all. Sure, you have your trolls, but they aren't nearly as tenacious as Ali is with his trolling. They are also modded down accordingly.

There is a lot of unrighteousness going on inside KDE. It's one of their main marketing thing to put KDE in the bright light by using unfair methods to pull GNOME in the dirt and to shut down renegades by trying to defamate them in the public.

Reply Score: 1

v Re: I see
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 21:18 UTC
@youknowmewell
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 21:31 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

Could you be more specific and point exactly to those comments you believe are posted falsely ? What sounds like a Troll in your ears might sound like true facts in the ears of others. You've been posting a bunch of links above and I wasn't able to find any particular wrong comments inside them. So please be as specific as possible and don't post general whole threads with 30 and more replies inside it.

Please post exact comments, add some line of comments that describe what's wrong inside it based on your opinion, make sure that you know for sure. That is 100% that these comments are written by the person that you keep accusing.

And know, the stuff that you feel is written falsely needs to be set correctly by you as well. So in case anything is wrong, please also correct them.

Reply Score: 0

RE: @youknowmewell
by youknowmewell on Mon 18th Jul 2005 21:50 UTC in reply to "@youknowmewell"
youknowmewell Member since:
2005-07-08

You misunderstand the meaning of the word troll.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=troll

Trolling doesn't have to do with something being fact or fiction, it has to do with baiting. You're purposely posting off-topic insults at GNOME to bait a conversation in which you can then valiantly defend KDE against the evil GNOMEs. It has become easy for me to predict when you will show up in a thread: When GNOME is mentioned. And I know what the conversation will be. It all degenerates down to you belittling GNOME, GNOME users and GNOME developers (of course, in your profound wisdom and experience with GNOME, you have every right to do so).

Reply Score: 1

Ali
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 21:57 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

There will always be 12 year olds who stir up trouble. This is why we have a moderation system. Just mod him down and move on to the next post.

Reply Score: 0

v Re: Re: @youknowmewell
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 21:59 UTC
RE: Re: Re: @youknowmewell
by youknowmewell on Mon 18th Jul 2005 22:22 UTC in reply to "Re: Re: @youknowmewell"
youknowmewell Member since:
2005-07-08

First thing, just wanted to point out that both Anonymous (IP: 82.96.100.---) and Anonymous (IP: 84.129.221.---) both talk the same, and even have the curious habit of putting a space before and after a question mark, instead of just after.

Personally, I moded your post about bookmarks down because I could see a flamewar coming from a mile away. History tells me your comment wasn't meant to be a genuine question; you have an axe to grind and it permeates your every comment.

I'm not going to address the technical issues since they are not relevent to this conversation.

No, I said that the KDE threads all had people bashing GNOME, not that a flamewar ensued. A flamewar happens when two sides flame each other, but in the case of those links all but one had only one side flaming, the KDE folk.

You asked me to point out any false [technically based] arguments you made in those past threads, but that is irrelevant. Whether you are correct on a technical basis is none of my concern. I pointed out that 'trolling' has nothing to do with the fact or fiction of anything, which was your understanding until I showed you the definition of the word 'troll'.

You and your ego are why you have your reputation. Unfortunately, because you are so vastly superior in intellect and personal experience, you don't realize how wrong you are, and you find it obsurd that anybody would suggest that your arguments are incorrect or that your methods of promoting KDE are incorrect.

Reply Score: 1

@youknowmewell
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 22:32 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

Look, I spent some time reading the Troll definition page which link you provided to me.

And by the definition of it you are a Troll as well. Ok let's assume that I am a Troll then be it that way. At least I am a technical skilled one ;)

Thanks for the flowers and your demonstration about how wrong the GNOME community is by giving an perfect example of your own !

I am going to watch van Helsing on TV now. Flame with you in the upcoming GNOME and KDE Threads as usual !

Reply Score: 0

...
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 22:44 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

PLease, just ignore the KDE trolls, there are no life losers who hang on a irc channel and talk about how to ruin GNOME threats in osnews.com, they use a channel in irc and make a plan of what to say and what to answer, of course they are pathetic litle losers who just want more atention, so please ignore them, its the best way to succed.

It is a shame that a KDE developer it is ammong them.

Reply Score: 0

RE: ...
by segedunum on Tue 19th Jul 2005 11:28 UTC in reply to "..."
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

PLease, just ignore the KDE trolls, there are no life losers who hang on a irc channel and talk about how to ruin GNOME threats in osnews.com, they use a channel in irc and make a plan of what to say and what to answer...............

Sorry, I thought that was the Gnome people because you get more than enough. First it's KDE's license (whatever that is), then it's the bloat, then it's the clutter. Given that the same things come up every single time, that sounds like forward planning to me ;-).

Besides, I think there's more enough of it to go around on all sides. And where is this kde-troll channel? I'm rather interested.

It is a shame that a KDE developer it is ammong them.

Who? If you're talking about who I think you're talking about then I think he did a pretty good job on setting the record straight on all of the trolling ;-).

The Gnome developers didn't help themselves either at GUADEC by claiming everything under the sun defaults to Gnome. The biggest steamer is the NLD. It defaults to nothing. You select a radio button for KDE or Gnome and that's what you get. Even in Gnome you get the kde-su stuff popping up, and in KDE the front-ends of iFolder are GTK. The NLD is totally desktop neutral (each desktop just provides you with a mode of operation really), despite the attempts of certain people to portray it otherwise. Hmmm. What does OES default to?

Back to the topic of this article:

I don't see anything else in GNOME that shares bookmarks with anything. Neither with Epiphany, Galeon, Nautilus, GThumb, <add custom GNOME app with own bookmark format here>. And why ZeroConf and not normal XBEL format, so you could have been able to share bookmarks with Konqueror or even Safari ?

I think that's a pretty legitimate thing in the context of the subject of this article to be asking to be honest. You can't go labelling everything you don't like as a troll.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: ...
by youknowmewell on Tue 19th Jul 2005 12:42 UTC in reply to "RE: ..."
youknowmewell Member since:
2005-07-08

I think that's a pretty legitimate thing in the context of the subject of this article to be asking to be honest. You can't go labelling everything you don't like as a troll.

It would have been legitimate had any other person asked the question. Given Ali's track record, I knew that he was not asking the question in a genuine attempt to understand. He was more interested in starting a debate on GNOME's 'flawed architecture' and KDE's 'superior consistency'. You just have to read past posts from him for different articles to see why it was modded down so quickly.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: ...
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 14:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
Anonymous Member since:
---

It would have been legitimate had any other person asked the question.

Sorry, but this is just plain dumb. You want to make Ali appear as a troll, but you get the opposite effect. It seems to me you are the only troll here.

Reply Score: 1

why choose gnome ?
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 22:51 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---
RE:...
by Mystilleef on Mon 18th Jul 2005 22:52 UTC
Mystilleef
Member since:
2005-06-29

Ali isn't a KDE developer. No KDE developer will demean their reputation to the point Ali has.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]:...
by Anonymous on Mon 18th Jul 2005 22:56 UTC in reply to "RE:..."
Anonymous Member since:
---

I never said he was Ali or another of those no life losers.

Reply Score: 0

v epiphany
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 03:55 UTC
RE: RE[2]: ...
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 13:40 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

"It would have been legitimate had any other person asked the question."

You are just a stupid Troll. That's all you are! You keep on namecalling people even if they do not participate to your bullshit anymore. Get a life loser!

Reply Score: 0