Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 19th Jul 2005 19:27 UTC, submitted by anonymous
Window Managers Elive, the Debian based Enlightenment (16.7 and 17) liveCD project has released version 0.1 for download. See the package and features list for more information. A screenshot tour is also available.
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v Much better
by Jackson Brown on Tue 19th Jul 2005 19:52 UTC
RE: Much better
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 20:51 UTC in reply to "Much better"
Anonymous Member since:
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Actually that is the previous enlightenment to the best of my knowledge , the screenshots that is of dr16. dr17 is the new Enlightenment , with that gold theme you mention, but it can be changed. http://www.get-e.org/Themes/E17/index.html

If anyone knows how to fully exit dr16 before entering dr17 please let me know

Reply Score: 0

v Stop copying OS X
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 20:01 UTC
RE: Stop copying OS X
by Roguelazer on Tue 19th Jul 2005 20:37 UTC in reply to "Stop copying OS X"
Roguelazer Member since:
2005-06-29

Have you ever actually used enlightenment 0.17? Aside from this nice features like transparency and shadows, it's BLINDINGLY FAST. The animations are still live and beautiful even with a compilation, F@H, and an OpenGL game using 100% CPU. It's at least as responsive as fluxbox, but nicer looking. There's a lot more to it than "OS X with transparency"...

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Stop copying OS X
by ma_d on Tue 19th Jul 2005 21:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Stop copying OS X"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

I find it funny that you say that. I've always ended up leaving fluxbox because I found it incredibly efficient but unresponsive. It was like when you uniconify a window it did the draw then showed it, as opposed to showing what it's got then filling it in. This gives a nice look I'm sure, and probably a net speedup on old hardware; but I always found it strangely annoying.
Not a real criticism, I'd just never describe flux as responsive.

I tried e17 like 6 months ago, and at the time the packages I used were a bit old; but it seemed to lack any way of configuring it (aside from hand editing a big file that wasn't obvious to find). It was cool though, and pretty fast then. But after the initial reaction wore off I thought: Some of these animations are useful, telling me that my mouse is over the window, showing blatantly where it is on engage, etc; but some would just get annoying.
But hey, I get light-headed if I change themes too many times in a day.

Anyway, jump on the torrent people!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Stop copying OS X
by Brian on Wed 20th Jul 2005 07:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Stop copying OS X"
Brian Member since:
2005-06-29

Yeah, there was benchmarks in a story on this site not long back, showing E17 was very respectable in terms of the speed of certain window operations. Poor old Fluxbox was a dog in comparison, or at least the version he was using was. ;)

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10796

(The link in the article doesn't show it on the main page anymore, you have to click on 'News' at the site.)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Stop copying OS X
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 21:31 UTC in reply to "Stop copying OS X"
Anonymous Member since:
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i was unaware that OSX invented transparencys

Reply Score: 3

RE: Stop copying OS X
by Knuckles on Tue 19th Jul 2005 22:14 UTC in reply to "Stop copying OS X"
Knuckles Member since:
2005-06-29

> Seriously, E had some innovations in the beginning. Now they have OS X with transparency. Who cares.

But maybe, just maybe one day, you and most zealots will understand that not everyone wants to buy a mac (or has the money to) just to use mac os X. And you will understand that we want some things LIKE mac os x, but others are just fine as they are. And that we don't want to throw away our current computers, they work just fine thank you, and that judging by the state of things, it will be you who will be throwing mac's away by next year or two.

Thanks for your time...

Reply Score: 4

Nice
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 20:08 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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I always wanted to give E17 a try, but was always too lazy to install it. The cd worked great, but the E17 it had on it was disappointingly sparse. In anycase, its about time someone started a liveCD that was devoted to eyecandy, and this is a good start.

Reply Score: 0

Whats up with the File Manager?
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 20:25 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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why do you still have to build evidence from source? why is it using Rox as the file manager? I use it on my suse box with the e packages from apt and it works pretty well. Can I ask to many questions?

Reply Score: 0

Anonymous Member since:
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Where did you find Suse packages for e17? I've been looking and couldn't find any...

Thanks.

Reply Score: 0

Grrrr
by ma_d on Tue 19th Jul 2005 20:51 UTC
ma_d
Member since:
2005-06-29

Post the torrent in your story. When this story gets slashdotted.....

Reply Score: 1

RE: Stop copying OS X
by doug on Tue 19th Jul 2005 20:59 UTC
doug
Member since:
2005-07-07

It looks nice and I would like to try it, but the bottom toolbar is definitely a rip-off of Mac OS X. The first thing I did after installing Mac OS 10.0 years ago was disable that annoying animation effect where the icons grow huge when your mouse hovers over them, and here it is again in Linux. Hope there's no brushed metal interfaces, too.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Stop copying OS X
by ma_d on Tue 19th Jul 2005 21:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Stop copying OS X"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

Default e17 doesn't do the panoramic, or it didn't 6 months ago. It did this cool thing where like side bars would highlight it (it looked cool, but my memory isn't the best for visual things).
Lots of things have tried to copy the OS X Dock:
kxdocker
ksmoothdock
engage #that enlightenment one you saw
superkaramba widgets
gdesklets widgets to a lesser extent
Dockbar (windows)


Anyway, some things just make sense to copy cause they make sense. I believe Mac gets its applications aren't bound to windows from Next doesn't it?
The more important question is have they improved on it!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Stop copying OS X
by Roguelazer on Tue 19th Jul 2005 21:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Stop copying OS X"
Roguelazer Member since:
2005-06-29

Except that's not enlightenment. That's either engage or gdesklets, neither of which are part of enlightenment.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Stop copying OS X
by ma_d on Wed 20th Jul 2005 01:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Stop copying OS X"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29
RE[4]: Stop copying OS X
by d a v i d on Wed 20th Jul 2005 02:30 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Stop copying OS X"
d a v i d Member since:
2005-07-06

Engage isn't the default - Enlightenment 17 has it's own "ibar".
Engage just uses the EFL, and now development is focussed on an E17 add-on module version.

Seems like Elive is using Engage by default though.

Reply Score: 1

Sweet
by Ronald Vos on Tue 19th Jul 2005 21:19 UTC
Ronald Vos
Member since:
2005-07-06

You can say what you want, but it definitely looks sweet.

Now can you do anything useful with it? ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Transparancy
by Ronald Vos on Tue 19th Jul 2005 21:36 UTC
Ronald Vos
Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't think any other OS had transparancy in regular windows before Mac OSX. Noone was mad enough to implement it anyway ;)

Reply Score: 1

MacOS what?
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 22:24 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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As much as lots of you want to give Apple credit for the E look it is undeserved. That look developed out of something Amigaish and consistent with what older E users will be used to.

You canít say that the loss of the bar at the top of the screen and the dark themes constitutes an imitation of MacOSX if the rest of the look has been consistent with what was E long before the first OSX betas?

Reply Score: 1

Hmmm
by Anonymous on Tue 19th Jul 2005 23:01 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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I wonder what you are smoking, guys.

Where did you see MacOS X style in E? Did you cactually use it?

I installed E17 for FC4 from rpm. I didn't beleive my eyes: it's really both blazing fast and eye candy at the same time. It'sa pleasure to use, though featurewise it's not complete. It even loads gnome settings daemon automatically for me. After a day of using E17 I see not many reasons to go back to GNOME 2.10 (HAL and automounting usb storage devices only).

Reply Score: 2

Elive
by zizban on Tue 19th Jul 2005 23:10 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

I used this for a while today. It's very fast, even on my modest pentium 3/500. You can't install it to a HD yet, that will be in the next version, 1-2 weeks away.

Reply Score: 1

Get over it!
by Morty on Tue 19th Jul 2005 23:31 UTC
Morty
Member since:
2005-07-06

E17 has some amazing eyecandy, but it's basically only a windowmanger with some extra tools. Like pager and launchdock. It's true it has some nice libs, but they are not used for anything except the E tools and it's unlikely they will see any wider adoption. Fact is, the windowmanager are a rather uninteresting piece of the desktop. The constant harping on about how "amazingly" fast the alternative windowmangers are, are just plain nonsens as you still have to use real applications to do anything. And that's the same applications you use without the "amazing" windowmanager. So the only thing you get expect the eyecandy are another set of libries loaded in memory, to what gain exactly. What do you speed demons do with that 1/2-1% of processor power you perhaps get extra each time you move or open a window anyways?

Reply Score: 1

v MAC HEADS!
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 00:16 UTC
E17 cool, slick, fast
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 00:19 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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E17 is very slick, very fast, very cool-looking. For me, it has the right combination of speed and looks.

In its present state (from CVS), it takes some time to get into. But once you've learned a couple of basic things, which are reasonably well documented, you can easily have a stunning -- and stunningly responsive -- setup.

It loads as fast as Fluxbox, but is much easier on the eyes.

Reply Score: 1

Tried it out today
by smoke on Wed 20th Jul 2005 01:15 UTC
smoke
Member since:
2005-07-08

I used to be the biggest fan of Enlightenment but I have since switched to the Mac. Anyway, I tried the Elive cd today on my old PC and it simply didn't boot properly unless I had it load the newer kernel. The other problem I had is that I don't have a good keyboard that works with Elive. My old keyboards are hardly working and it won't accept a USB keyboard. So I wasn't able to get it to load E17.

I did muck around a bit in E16 and I find that it doesn't feel as solid as my OS X 10.4.2 desktop. The dock doesn't have anywhere near as many features as the OS X dock either.

Anyway I'm hoping the next version of Elive will support USB Keyboards.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Tried it out today
by smoke on Wed 20th Jul 2005 01:17 UTC in reply to "Tried it out today"
smoke Member since:
2005-07-08

I also would like it if they would boot into E17 by default. What they have booting by default is E16 and it doesn't have anything that it didn't have for 7+ years except for the dock.

Reply Score: 1

EFL vs. GTK (Gnomelib?) and QT
by John Nilsson on Wed 20th Jul 2005 04:40 UTC
John Nilsson
Member since:
2005-07-06

Could anyone comment on how EFL is compared to GTK and QT?

Not performance, but productivity, flexibility and maintainability.

Reply Score: 1

RE: EFL vs. GTK (Gnomelib?) and QT
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 14:13 UTC in reply to "EFL vs. GTK (Gnomelib?) and QT"
Anonymous Member since:
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Iím not using it and I probably wonít. Not because itís no good, from all Iíve heard itís rather nice. Somebody is working on Ruby bindings (to implement a XMMS2 frontend in) there is work on a C++ bindings and C# (thatís supposed to bee compatible with GTK#) and other bindings are popping up. If you go to the enlightenment webpage and rasermans homepage you can find some example source code to find out if it is for you.

Reply Score: 0

Why not wait?
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 05:48 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Isn't kinda soon to be pushing a pre-beta wm? Shouldn't you wait until it's actually finished so that you can get maximum productivity out of it?

Reply Score: 0

RE: Why not wait?
by dagw on Wed 20th Jul 2005 10:40 UTC in reply to "Why not wait?"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

For the same reasons movie studios release trailers and teasers before the movie hits the cinema. To make people aware of this really cool thing that will be coming soon. To get people talking and interested. So that when it is ready a lot more people will know exactly what it is and be ready and waiting to use it.

Also this being an open source project the more people that get to play with this the greater chance they have of getting developers, testers, comments and bug reports which will speed up and improve development.

Reply Score: 1

v Crap
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 07:46 UTC
yawn
by subterrific on Wed 20th Jul 2005 08:43 UTC
subterrific
Member since:
2005-07-10

I've tried e17 a few times in its development. The animated desktop background was cool for a few minutes and the drop shadows were neat (until I realized they're "fake" and always drawn on the desktop layer instead of on whatever is under the window, like another window). However, I couldn't find any reason to use e17. After being a mac user for over 17 years, the eye-candy thing is a bit tired. I'm much more interested in window managers like ion, which actually innovates in a way that makes a computer more efficient and easy to use by truely managing windows instead of just throwing them on the screen for me to drag around and resize endlessly.

http://iki.fi/tuomov/ion/

Reply Score: 1

Those strange menues
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 09:09 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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The Gnome menues was improved alot when they renamed all cryptic menu entris (like gedit) to something meaningfull (like Text Editor). I think the people E needs to do the same. Just check out this screenshot:

http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/385_or/36.png

Reply Score: 0

Elive 0.2
by azerty on Wed 20th Jul 2005 12:07 UTC
azerty
Member since:
2005-07-20

1- Evidence, and a lot of efl appz are already packed !!!
2- In Elive 0.1 E17 doesn't work fine, but in Elive 0.2 that's different
3- Join #elive at freenode for more info
4- There is a Elive 0.2-dev downloadable, it's a dev version ( for build drivers, ... ) not good for final user, but beatiful !
5 -Elive 0.2 will be better, more powerful !!

Reply Score: 1

wait a minute
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 16:22 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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All those screenshots are of Enlightenment DR16, not DR17. I see no gadgets and the menus are obviously from DR16.

Reply Score: 0

my two cents
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 16:35 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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For that one person complaining about E copying OSX, Enlightenment was leading the way of eyecandy and WM features long before Apple started the Aqua/Cocoa thing.

I'm using E17 for my main WM and it's amazing. Right amount of subtle eyecandy and very fast. I'm in the process of switching from fluxbox to E mainly because fluxbox lacks the community and momentum that Enlightenment has.

Forinstance, fluxbox lacks a working pager (fbpager loses windows all the time) and it seems there's not much creativity or drive left in their development team (as compared to back in 2000-2001 when Fluxbox picked up steam). Enlightenment has a working pager, nice iconbar, some-what stable FM (I maybe a console man, but sometimes I like a FM), image viewer, background chooser, menu editor, amazing set of libraries and a great community of users/developers/themers.

Those are just my points on Enlightenment, I hope they might give those who are confused some incite into what all the rage is about.

Reply Score: 0

This is great....
by Mr Contraire on Wed 20th Jul 2005 22:21 UTC
Mr Contraire
Member since:
2005-07-06

Nice work Enlightenment team! I've been switching from Gnome to Xfce4 and KDE (and back again!) recently, can't decide which I like best lol...I'd imagine much like a lot of my fellow OSNews'ers - so a switch to Enlightment? Why not?

Gnome and KDE have improved a LOT over the past 6 months or so, in both speed, reduced bloat and usability.

As speed and bloat were never an issue for e16, I'm thinking e17 might just provide a nice clean environment from which to launch GTK and QT apps ;)

The exciting thing about Linux is that you can always run stuff no matter which desktop you're running, within reason. ...and btw I also have two OSX machines and to be honest I'm bored with Aqua, I never really liked it THAT much as a theme.

These are much more my style http://www.get-e.org/Themes/E17/index.html

The liveCD is a great idea, I'll try out the 0.2 version when it's out ;)

Reply Score: 1

Developmnet Version of 0.2
by victorhooi on Thu 21st Jul 2005 01:23 UTC
victorhooi
Member since:
2005-06-30

heya,

Just thought I'd mention, the development version of 0.2 that a previous poster mentioned is actually availabe here:

http://livecd.debianitas.net/beta-testers.html

Direct link is:

http://livecd.debianitas.net/downloads/Elive_0.2_developers.iso

(ISO, 388MB)

Just like to say, E totally rocks, and Raster blows =). And yes, I am planning to make E17 my desktop as soon as I get Slack reinstalled.

There's an *excellent*, very in-depth guide to installing E and configuring it here:

http://get-e.org/User_Guide/English/_pages/print.html

and it's updated to keep track of the moving CVS target fairly regularly (every few days).

cya,
Victor

Reply Score: 2

Won't boot...
by gonzalo on Thu 21st Jul 2005 06:04 UTC
gonzalo
Member since:
2005-07-06

I downloaded it, burned it, tried to boot... Tsk.

I've only got some HP and some Dell machines around here. On the HPs ISOLINUX just won't boot. On the Dells it boots but stops halfway through the process.

I'll try it somewhere else...

Reply Score: 1