Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 11:26 UTC, submitted by Eugenia
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless The wraps have been taken off of new Palm PDAs. The most notable one is the new Treo 700w: a 1.0 megapixel camera, EV-DO, Bluetooth, 64MB of memory, and, most notably, Windows Mobile 5.0. A new Zire (Z22) and Tungsten (TX) have also been revealed.
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Witness the fall of the great Palm...
by Roguelazer on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 12:28 UTC
Roguelazer
Member since:
2005-06-29

Let me be the first to bemoan the death of working handheld interfaces and the true rise of the useless, crufty, un-intuitave Windows Mobile. When hp made Windows Mobile devices, when Dell did, that was all expected. But when Palm puts Windows Mobile on one of their flagship devices, it's really the beginning of the end. Yes, I know that the Z22 and TX both run Palm OS, but it strikes me that with Palm OS in the hands of a relatively unknown foreign company and with the Treo using Windows Mobile, Palm OS's days are numbered. *Sigh*

And where is Jeff Hawkins while this travesty occurs at what was originally his company? He's in Menlo Park (not that far from Cupertino...), working at his new company, Neumenta. They're designing computer memory that works like human memory. *sigh*

Reply Score: 4

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

There are rumors that a Treo 700p (p for PalmOS, contrary to 700w, Windows) is also in the making.

Reply Score: 5

WrongSizeGlass Member since:
2005-07-06

Is it just me, or does the phone on the right look like it has an "Apple Menu" underneath the "Sprint" logo?
http://img.engadget.com/common/images/3060000000046185.JPG?0.055509...

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Is it just me, or does the phone on the right look like it has an "Apple Menu" underneath the "Sprint" logo?

Meh, you're right! "Apple Buys Palm"? ;)

Do you think that they will see more sells of the Windows Mobile version over the Palm OS version if the rumours are true?

Thry'll sell more of the Windows version, no doubt about that.

Reply Score: 5

Guppetto Member since:
2005-07-06

Someone just skined Windows Mobile to use the apple look and feel. There are tons of mods available and the apple aqua interface is a well know favorite.

Reply Score: 1

Anonymous Member since:
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Although I haven't used Windows Mobile much myself, I agree with your post. This bring a couple of questions to my mind:

What is the problem with this company and innovation and evolution of the Palm OS? How did they lose this market to Microsoft? Where is the Linux version? If I was a shareholder, I would be really upset.

Thom: Do you think that they will see more sells of the Windows Mobile version over the Palm OS version if the rumours are true?

On the other hand, this could be a good experiment since Palm is a hardware company. Selling devices with your choice of operating system.

I think Apple should jump in this space and produce some PDA/Video/Music device based on OS X.

Thoughts anyone?

Reply Score: 1

Roguelazer Member since:
2005-06-29

Only if it's called a Newton. iNewton would also be acceptable. ;)

Reply Score: 1

wazoox Member since:
2005-07-14

As the happy owner of a Visor+VisorPhone, a Treo 270 and soon a Treo 650, I'll cry with you my friend. I won't run no stinkin' windows mobile on my phone, never (or any other windows flavor on any PDA/phone/computer for that matter).

Reply Score: 1

where is my wifi?
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 13:43 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Yup, still no wifi on the device: the phone companies want people to use their highspeed wireless service.

Reply Score: 0

v WTF
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 13:52 UTC
RE: WTF
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 14:49 UTC in reply to "WTF"
Anonymous Member since:
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that is NOT a palm. a palm does NOT run windows mobile

Well, let me ask you this: are Macs identified by the hardware or the OS it runs? Some would say hardware, but then again since Apple is switching to Intel CPUs... know what I mean?

Why the hell couldn't palmsource put more effort into a modern OS

Effort costs money, they had money problems. Blame it on poor management, then they got sold to someone else and now Palm can't even buy them back.

Reply Score: 1

RE: WTF
by rm6990 on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 14:51 UTC in reply to "WTF"
rm6990 Member since:
2005-07-04

WHAT IN THE HELL!?

that is NOT a palm. a palm does NOT run windows mobile. That is a POS.

STUPID company. Why the hell couldn't palmsource put more effort into a modern OS. Now look what happened.


Calm down there chief, Palm and PalmSource are two seperate companies. Palm is merely a hardware company and doesn't give two shits what OS ships on their hardware. If a lot of their customers want a Windows device, they'll ship it. What does it matter to them? Ship with Windows, licensing money goes to Microsoft. Ship with PalmOS, licensing money goes to whomever bought PalmSource. Doesn't go to them either way. If Windows costs more...then the Windows device will just cost more than the PalmOS version.

Reply Score: 1

Sabon
Member since:
2005-07-06

"new Treo 700w: a 1.0 megapixel camera, EV-DO, Bluetooth, 64MB of memory, and, most notably, Windows Mobile 5.0. "

That's just Palm is telling me they don't want my business anymore and to buy a Blackberry. Any MS OS for me? Not on Bill Gate's life.

Reply Score: 1

rm6990 Member since:
2005-07-04

That's just Palm is telling me they don't want my business anymore and to buy a Blackberry. Any MS OS for me? Not on Bill Gate's life.

So you would switch to BlackBerry simply because PalmSource is offering Windows? Even though they still offer PalmOS...and they should be bringing out a PalmOS version of this device? Talk about taking zealotry to a whole new level. I suppose you never buy HP, Dell, IBM desktops either?

You are aware than companies exist to make money right? If Palm's Customers want Windows, they'll get Windows. Some of Palm's customers still want PalmOS, so they still offer that too.

But to get upset because a company isn't catering only to your market is silly.

Reply Score: 1

rm6990 Member since:
2005-07-04

Sorry, meant to say because Palm is offering Windows, not PalmSource. I even previewed my comment and missed that error till after posting :-s

Reply Score: 1

Anonymous Member since:
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You are correct. I haven't bought from HP, Dell, or IBM. I don't buy Windows machines. Anything but M$ loaded devices.

Reply Score: 0

Sabon Member since:
2005-07-06

Accidentally posted an anonymous. Here I am as myself.

"I suppose you never buy HP, Dell, IBM desktops either? "

True. Very true. I've never bought computers from any of them. I've home built quite a few computers. I've run quite a few OSs on them but never any MS OSs.

Note that am I am a Systems Analyst and have supported Windows computers including servers since the DOS days. Buy I don't "eat it" at home. Once I get home I like to -know- that I don't have to worry about my OS biting the dust.

By the way. I find this very amusing, "Graphics drivers developed for Vista, Microsoft's next generation operating system, will be far more stable than their Windows XP-based counterparts, and not crash the operating system anymore, an executive of graphics chip developer ATI said."

Uhm. Are they very stable now? LOL

Reply Score: 1

What options do we have for Mobile OS?
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 15:05 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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This is becoming a concern. I don't own a PDA, the nearest thing to one that I have is a SonyEricsson T610 phone

It seems that nowadays the only choices are Windows and Palm - and Palm's new OS isn't even shipped on most Palm-esque devices if I remember rightly. Psion is long-gone, and Windows is everywhere.

I don't want a Windows PDA which will force me to use Outlook to sync my mail, I'd like something which plays well with my Mac as well as my XP desktop. Unless the rare linux PDAs can do this, it looks like I'm stuffed

Also, whats with only 64mb of RAM? my Thunderbird email message folders in MBX format total over 200mb, I'd want to carry them and selected documents around with me.

Reply Score: 1

Palm Is Dead. Long Live Palm.
by CharAznable on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 15:14 UTC
CharAznable
Member since:
2005-07-06

*sigh*

Expect Palm's market share to continue dwindling as it now will have very little do differenciate itself from other smartphone makers.

Where can I go next? I sure as hell don't want Windows in my pocket.

Reply Score: 1

PalmOS vs Everyone else
by Dark_Knight on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 15:15 UTC
Dark_Knight
Member since:
2005-07-10

While there are a lot of Treo users upset over this move to offering Windows Mobile 5.0 I believe it's a wise move for Palm. The reason for this is the ergonomic design, not the OS is what has attracted consumers to the Treo. Most PDA Smartphones are bulky and less user friendly than the Treo. Though the OS used on them offers more such as being able to run Flash media and other applications not available to PalmOS users. While I was hoping for Palm to work more towards offering a Linux OS on their devices due to this would offer more options for consumers at lower cost it's still good to see them dump the outdated PalmOS.

Reply Score: 1

Hmmm
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 15:30 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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First they migrated from the Dragonball to the ARM, then from ARM to xScale ... Then they skip PalmOS and jump into the laps of Linux and Windows Mobile (The Treo line) .... on top of that I've just been told that palmSource just has been bought by the Japanese company
Access.

Well I'm glad Palm is capable of laying a simple strategy..

It sounds like my next PDA/Phone is to be a SymbianOS based one.

Reply Score: 0

sad
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 15:36 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Welcome to the dawn of a new microsoft operating system monopoly.

Reply Score: 2

Stupid decision
by Luke McCarthy on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 16:00 UTC
Luke McCarthy
Member since:
2005-07-06

Palm have now volunteered themselves to be subjugated under Microsoft. What will happen is that they will be increasingly reliant on Windows Mobile to the point where they will not be able to sell a PDA without it. Just like PC manufacturers, Microsoft will strongarm them into a contract which disallows them to sell a PDA with anything but Windows. They should pull out while they still can.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Stupid decision
by collinm on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 16:28 UTC in reply to "Stupid decision"
collinm Member since:
2005-07-15

palm switch to linux..

it will sell palm to linux maybe under windows and treo under windows and surely linux in a couple of time

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Stupid decision
by rm6990 on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 18:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Stupid decision"
rm6990 Member since:
2005-07-04

palm switch to linux..

it will sell palm to linux maybe under windows and treo under windows and surely linux in a couple of time


I have no idea what you mean....your sentence makes no sense (not trying to be rude or anything)

Reply Score: 1

Don't understand
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 17:22 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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To switch to WM5.0 is to contract out the vision for a PDA. One now must "innovate" within WM5 to make a better product.

If they all must run windows, then they all have the same features, which means there will be less unique devices.

Also, I've found firsthand the stability of the x50v to be quite dismal, and also I experience screen corruption. (Same as the kind you get with bad graphics drivers)

The software for WM5.0 is so silly, while there are many free applications, I find that one must pay for alot of decent software.

I found myself wanting to replace all the software that came with WM5. I replaced Windows Media player, The file browser, will replace the sound recorder. I also find the Internet explorer to be really bad, perhaps I'll replace it with Opera?

I also find it difficult to use. The handwriting recognition smells, and text entry is a pain as well as slow. (No attached keyboard).

Perhaps it's my linux side, but I wish I had a nice bash shell.. So many times I just want to open a shell and type wget, when IE craps out.. Or I just want to type mplayer, Ooo I miss my command line tools soo much!!!

Next person to make a linux based PDA with integrated WiFi and perfect evolution syncing gets $400 CDN!! (Cost of my x50v when it was on Sale)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Don't understand
by JLF65 on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 20:06 UTC in reply to "Don't understand"
JLF65 Member since:
2005-07-06

I found myself wanting to replace all the software that came with WM5. I replaced Windows Media player, The file browser, will replace the sound recorder. I also find the Internet explorer to be really bad, perhaps I'll replace it with Opera?

I doubt you'll ever see a mobile version of Opera... of course I could be wrong on that as well. What you would be more likely to see is Minimo for it.

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=6191

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Don't understand
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 22:53 UTC in reply to "RE: Don't understand"
Anonymous Member since:
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I doubt you'll ever see a mobile version of Opera... of course I could be wrong on that as well.

Meanwhile, back in reality...
http://www.opera.com/products/mobile/

As you can see Opera has a mobile browser for a lot of platforms, including a port for the current Treo, the 650, but it's only available in certain countries.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Don't understand
by rm6990 on Sat 24th Sep 2005 01:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Don't understand"
rm6990 Member since:
2005-07-04

WTF are you talking about? Last I heard, Opera was number 1 or 2 in the mobile browser market. It is their cash-cow. Whereas Minimo is at version 0.09....or have they released a new alpha yet?

Not to insult any mozilla devs or anything...but seriously, I doubt minimo in its current state could compete with Opera Mobile.

Reply Score: 1

v eww.
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 18:33 UTC
v Linux - suxx
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 20:06 UTC
Different market
by snowflake on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 20:08 UTC
snowflake
Member since:
2005-07-20

Palm's largest market is most likely to business, not the FOSS community. Hence it would make business sense to sell a windows version. Remember, Palm is a business not a charity.

Also, to be honest, do you think palm would sell *a lot* of palms based on linux? I doubt it very much. Maybe they'd sell 10 to 20 thousand which is a tiny number.

I am a tro 650 user, and I'm a bit disappointed with it, eg I can't hook it up to my laptop to use it as an internet connection without paying for additional software (which may or may not work). Also the monthly charges are very high. Last week I had the chance to play with one of the new W5 pdas, and it did seem nicer and the monthly charges were lower.

Reply Score: 1

Just for the record
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 21:51 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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tungsten is "a heavy rock" in danish ;-) This is allways funn

Reply Score: 0

v Oh no
by Anonymous on Fri 23rd Sep 2005 23:32 UTC
Confirms my decision...
by tbutler on Sat 24th Sep 2005 05:26 UTC
tbutler
Member since:
2005-07-06

...not to switch back to a Palm. I have no interested in Windows Mobile, but I was being enticed by the elegance of Palm to perhaps abandon my present Symbian smart phone. Instead, I think I shall just buy another Symbian unit -- at least it seems to be a going concern, I fear returning to Palm OS at this moment is a decision that won't last long.

If a 700p does come out, who will buy it? If the only major provider of Palm OS PDA's isn't sure enough to stick exclusively to Palm, then Palm OS will die. It is just as if Apple started preloading certain Macs with Windows instead of Mac OS X: it would be a death knell for the OS.

Reply Score: 1