Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 28th Sep 2005 12:24 UTC
Windows Vista Beta 1 and Longhorn Server Beta 1 include a new implementation of the TCP/IP protocol suite known as the Next Generation TCP/IP stack. The Next Generation TCP/IP stack in Windows Vista and Windows Server Longhorn is a complete redesign of TCP/IP functionality for both IPv4 and IPv6 that meets the connectivity and performance needs of today's varied networking environments and technologies. Elsewhere, will Office 12 be named... Office Mondo?
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v WTF....
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 12:32 UTC
RE: WTF....
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 13:14 UTC in reply to "WTF...."
Anonymous Member since:
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Well, it seems Microsoft likes Italian words! ;)
Mondo= World
Vista= Sight

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: WTF....
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Sep 2005 01:04 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF...."
Anonymous Member since:
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> Well, it seems Microsoft likes Italian words! ;)
> Mondo= World
> Vista= Sight

Well, Vista exists in other languages, including English.

Mondo (world) is incorrect. It should be Mondo minus Massachusetts. :-) It's almost Mondo but not quite.

Maybe it's better Quasimondo.

d-b

Reply Score: 0

v New MS protocols?
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 12:43 UTC
Re: WTF....
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 12:48 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Maybe they were hitting the peace pipe with the Ubuntu guys?

Reply Score: 0

Is this really news?
by Phil on Wed 28th Sep 2005 12:51 UTC
Phil
Member since:
2005-07-06

The new tcp/ip stack doesn't sound particularly groundbreaking, they haven't moved it out of the kernel or anything interesting, it's just "new," hardly newsworthy.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Is this really news?
by Adam S on Wed 28th Sep 2005 12:56 UTC in reply to "Is this really news?"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

How is it "hardly newsworthy?" The biggest and most pervasive commercial software company on the planet has swapped out their notorious BSD-based TCP/IP implementation in favor of a newer one that offers Windows users a much better experience, like the ability ot change protocol settings without a reboot. That seems like pretty big news to me.

While it doesn't implement new features, it's seemingly a huge plus for Windows users.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Is this really news?
by somebody on Wed 28th Sep 2005 14:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Is this really news?"
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

How is it "hardly newsworthy?" The biggest and most pervasive commercial software company on the planet has swapped out their notorious BSD-based TCP/IP implementation in favor of a newer one that offers Windows users a much better experience, like the ability ot change protocol settings without a reboot. That seems like pretty big news to me.

So BSD code demands reboot. You risk getting chewed and spitted out by BSD users

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Is this really news?
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 15:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Is this really news?"
Anonymous Member since:
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swapped out their notorious BSD-based TCP/IP implementation

Windows TCP/IP hasn't been BSD-based for years. In fact, it was only at the beginning, for a very short time.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Is this really news?
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 16:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Is this really news?"
Anonymous Member since:
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>The biggest and most pervasive commercial software company
>on the planet has swapped out their notorious BSD-based
>TCP/IP implementation

Windows NT, 200*, XP don't use BSD stack! It was in windows 9x !

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Is this really news?
by Deviate_X on Wed 28th Sep 2005 18:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Is this really news?"
Deviate_X Member since:
2005-07-11

"Windows NT, 200*, XP don't use BSD stack! It was in windows 9x !"

You might like to read this article ( http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/6/19/05641/7357 ) its written by one of the original programmers on the Windows NT project.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Is this really news?
by evert on Wed 28th Sep 2005 16:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Is this really news?"
evert Member since:
2005-07-06

Some of use appreciate this kind of news. I'm very interested in OSS, and I use Linux / GNU / Mozilla a lot and promote it everywhere, but I don't like the narrow-minded behaviour os some people who think that OSS defines the borders of the world. Windows is an important OS, no matter how much you like it.

This new TCP/IP stack shows some interesting features - multiprocessor, multiuser (each user it's own routing container), very good support for IP6 - it's going to make things better.

Unbelievable how some people wonder if the new TCP/IP stack will communicate with OSS TCP/IP. Totally unrealistic. Image the news papers: Windows Vista not able to browse 95% of the WWW. Because if MS would do that, IE would not communicatie with Apache WWW servers AND not with current Windows servers who still use the older TCP/IP. You have to be a fool to suggest something like this, I'm sorry to say. MS cares about backward compatability, and I'm sure this new stack will play nice with other stacks.

The impact on IP6 will be huge. IP6 enabled by default, that means the mainstream OS vendor will force IP6 upon the market - which is a good think, the world needs IP6.

Reply Score: 5

Stack
by Buck on Wed 28th Sep 2005 12:56 UTC
Buck
Member since:
2005-06-29

For what it's worth something NEW in such a core thing as TCP/IP stack will probably mean untested software full of as-of-yet undiscovered holes. That always happens when something's redesigned. Unless it WAS redesigned in the first place and it's not just PR hype.

Reply Score: 1

Mondo
by steve_macd on Wed 28th Sep 2005 13:09 UTC
steve_macd
Member since:
2005-09-28
So - what is there above the stack?
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 13:23 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Any support for interoperability? Might be a good thing in a communications layer - no?

NFS?

SMB connectivity with Samba servers or clients?

Is Windows IPV6 compatible with Linux IPV6?

SSH? SFTP? SCP? Lisa? Zeroconf?

Can Windows use a CUPS printer yet?

Reply Score: 0

jessta Member since:
2005-08-17

window has been able to use CUPS printers since win98.
Window services for unix provides NFS support.

Reply Score: 2

CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

And when 2003 R2 comes out, it has support for NFS, among many other things.

Reply Score: 1

Anonymous Member since:
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>>window has been able to use CUPS printers since win98.<<

Can it? Great!

How do I get it to?

Also, how do I install & set up Windows SFU, or would I be better off with Cygwin?

Reply Score: 0

Mondo
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 13:55 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Sorry Microsoft, this word is patented by the italian language. You have to pay a royalty fee to use it.

Reply Score: 0

Grrrr......
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 14:16 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Mondo smash StarOffice

Reply Score: 0

RE: Grrrr......
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 16:50 UTC in reply to "Grrrr......"
Anonymous Member since:
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*LOL*

Let's see if that happens...

Reply Score: 0

v Non-viral software
by timosa on Wed 28th Sep 2005 14:29 UTC
RE: Non-viral software
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 16:52 UTC in reply to "Non-viral software"
Anonymous Member since:
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Actually the BSD netscack isn't "viral software", since the BSD-license isn't a "viral" license.

It's either marketing hype or a de-commoditized protocol created in an attempt to create a vendor lock-in on the internet.

Reply Score: 0

The REAL news
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 14:50 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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You should take a look at: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=116554

it implements CTCP (Compound TCP) algorithm which has performance improvements that are greater than FAST at (http://netlab.caltech.edu/). So it should mean much faster downloads even on a DSL line.

More information on the CTCP can be found at: http://research.microsoft.com/research/pubs/view.aspx?type=Technica...

This improvement will be available in Beta2 and NOT beta1

Reply Score: 1

RE: The REAL news
by Wrawrat on Wed 28th Sep 2005 22:55 UTC in reply to "The REAL news"
Wrawrat Member since:
2005-06-30

Great info. Unfortunately, I don't have time to read the papers you have linked...

I have a question, though: does that would need specific support from both parties? I mean, if you are a subscriber and want to reap the benefits from CTCP, would the host (say, a web server) needs to use CTCP too? What about the ATMs, gateways and firewalls routing your traffic? If that is the case, then I don't see any improvement for a while. Unless the implementation is open, that's it.

Reply Score: 1

v New feature?
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 15:03 UTC
A play from the ubuntu book
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 15:33 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Hey screwy naming worked for them right??

Reply Score: 0

TCP/IP
by DonQ on Wed 28th Sep 2005 15:40 UTC
DonQ
Member since:
2005-06-29

As far as their NextGen TCP/IP implementation doesn't break RFCs, I welcome new stack. Current TCP/IP is working well, but it's apparently a mess inside.

Well, look at next sentences in pointed article (my italic):

"WFP is more secure, integrated in the stack, and much easier for independent software vendors (ISVs) to build drivers, services, and applications that must filter, analyze, or modify TCP/IP traffic."
"The Next-Generation TCP/IP stack has an infrastructure to enable more modular components that can be dynamically inserted and removed."

What we get finally:

[NextGen TCP/IP stack should be] more secure, [but it's] much easier for [anybody to] modify TCP/IP traffic [and/or] insert more [unwanted] components dynamically.

:)

Reply Score: 2

RE: TCP/IP
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 19:38 UTC in reply to "TCP/IP"
Anonymous Member since:
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>"WFP is more secure, integrated in the stack, and much easier for independent software vendors (ISVs) to build drivers, services, and applications that must filter, analyze, or modify TCP/IP traffic."
"The Next-Generation TCP/IP stack has an infrastructure to enable more modular components that can be dynamically inserted and removed." <

That's funny i remember an earlier article saying how MSFT was going to remove direct TCP/IP access from end users and software.

Reply Score: 0

wooo
by Nex6 on Wed 28th Sep 2005 15:52 UTC
Nex6
Member since:
2005-07-06

they rewrite there TCP/ip stack, which in the old days they took form BSD. then they evolve it to what we have today which is a mess, so they do a rewrite to clean it up and make sure IPv6 is fully supported and stuff .

so they call this next gen TCP/IP?

-Nex6

Reply Score: 1

RE: wooo
by MobyTurbo on Thu 29th Sep 2005 02:10 UTC in reply to "wooo "
MobyTurbo Member since:
2005-07-08

It's a myth that MS took their TCP/IP stack from BSD, they only took some userland tools such as ftp and telnet from BSD. BTW, IPv6 has been supported by *BSD TCP/IP stacks for a long time... possibly it was the first to implement ipv6.

Reply Score: 1

more hype
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 17:02 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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This is nothing but typical Microsoft hype like about anything else surrounding Vista. I am tired of essentially reading Microsoft advertising everywhere. If they would have focused on development instead of creating hype and FUD, it would have been more beneficial for everyone and Vista would have had a chance.

Reply Score: 0

RE: more hype
by sappyvcv on Wed 28th Sep 2005 17:19 UTC in reply to "more hype"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Yeah, because they don't have a marketing department that's seperate from the developers. Yep, all the developers are the ones donig the talking and not actually developing.

This may not be news to some of you (I don't see how, it fits the exact definition of news), but it's a good thing no matter how you look at it.

Reply Score: 1

Windows Filtering Platform
by Tyr. on Wed 28th Sep 2005 17:42 UTC
Tyr.
Member since:
2005-07-06

The interfaces in the current TCP/IP stack for TCP/IP security (filtering for local host traffic), the firewall hook, the filter hook, and the storage of packet filter information has been replaced with a new framework known as the Windows Filtering Platform (WFP).

Translation : will break every network related third party software out there.

What's up with swapping out critical OS components in the beta stage of product that will suposedly ship real soon now anyway ?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Windows Filtering Platform
by sappyvcv on Wed 28th Sep 2005 18:42 UTC in reply to "Windows Filtering Platform"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Who says they are just swapping it out now?!

These are the things they have been working no since the reset, but they simply wouldn't announce it until they were far enough along that they were pretty sure these components would not be dropped.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Windows Filtering Platform
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 19:03 UTC in reply to "Windows Filtering Platform"
Anonymous Member since:
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IF they are changing the way that drivers are written, I wonder what effect this will have on the NDIS API. If there are significant API changes as part of this, this means that old drivers might not work on Vista. It may also be an attempt to break the ndis technology in FreeBSD and other systems which is used today for, eg, wireless cards that have no native driver.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Windows Filtering Platform
by kaiwai on Thu 29th Sep 2005 05:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Windows Filtering Platform"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Oh pulease, Microsoft couldn't give two hoots what is happening in the FreeBSD world, let alone the Linux world - they've already got enough on their plate with Vista - trying to convince their existing customers of Windows 9x/2000/XP that Vista is the future - whilst at the same time, trying to persuade them to upgrade to Windows XP 18 months before the release of Windows Vista.

From what it sounds like, the NDIS 5.1 will be simply a matter of changing a few things; the API is documented, it would be simply a matter of the Project Evil programmers to read up on the API changes/additions and add those changes when and where necessary.

Reply Score: 1

Italian Words..
by Tanner on Wed 28th Sep 2005 17:57 UTC
Tanner
Member since:
2005-07-06

Mondo.. World.

Office World. Megalomania rulez.
W l'Italia anyways ;)

Reply Score: 1

v re: OSS
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 18:21 UTC
Office Mongo ?
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 18:27 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Office Mongo seems more like it.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Office Mongo ?
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 18:41 UTC in reply to "Office Mongo ?"
Anonymous Member since:
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I suspect HeathCliff came to mind? ;)

Reply Score: 0

Funny readers
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 18:48 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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It's very funny. I think you don't know anything about networking in Vista and in general. But i understand you: it's easy to be a sarcastic and incompetent somebody.

Reply Score: 2

Routing compartments looks cool
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Sep 2005 23:00 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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The Routing compartments thing looks cool. I'm not sure exactly how many people would benefit from it, since I'd imagine most rdesktop users tend not to use VPN's...

That said, it looks like one of those technologies that once it's in there, people will start building nifty stuff around it.

Now - how long to implement this under Linux. ;)

Reply Score: 0

sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

See, that's the big thing. A lot of the things going into Vista aren't that amazing by themselves. But they provide the technologies for developers to make some pretty frickin' sweet stuff.

Microsoft doesn't make the really cool stuff, they provide the platforms and technologies for other people to.

Reply Score: 1

Office Condom ?
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Sep 2005 04:57 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Ehmm in EAST-Germany an popular Condom Mark was called Mondo :-)

Reply Score: 0

Windows Vista Networking
by proforma on Thu 29th Sep 2005 09:54 UTC
proforma
Member since:
2005-08-27

Why is it that when Microsoft improves their software and makes things better for everyone that tons of people act like jerks and jacka$$es?

I am not saying that everything that is made by Microsoft is so golden, but damn can't we just enjoy some news about something without morons posting crap.

Reply Score: 1

What is Mondo? The truth...
by Mystic TaCo on Thu 29th Sep 2005 18:28 UTC
Mystic TaCo
Member since:
2005-09-13

is that Mondo is a SKU name that the Office team uses internally. You've heard of Office Pro? Office Standard? Office Small Business Edition? Mondo is the SKU that includes every piece of code that is a part of any 'Office' product. It is an internal only SKU used for testing by members of the Office team. Mondo has been around for a long time. I'd say it is very unlikely that this will become the product name.

Reply Score: 1