Linked by Andrew Youll on Sat 1st Oct 2005 13:48 UTC
Privacy, Security, Encryption Hackers at a security conference failed to break into Via Technologies' StrongBox security application during a competition. The Taiwanese microprocessor vendor offered a $5000 (EUR 4157) prize to any hacker who could break into StrongBox, a secure virtual hard drive of up to 40GB designed to protect data from computer intruders. Announced on Tuesday, the application uses a combination of hardware-based SHA-1 and 256-bit AES encryption.
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Time
by mlopes on Sat 1st Oct 2005 14:29 UTC
mlopes
Member since:
2005-07-18

It's not a question of money but rather a question of time. Give'm time and they'll break it. If a human built another one can crack it.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Time
by Anonymous on Sat 1st Oct 2005 14:46 UTC in reply to "Time"
Anonymous Member since:
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Maybe true. But if it takes 100 years to break into the data most likely would be worthless then. It doesn't have to be completely unbreakable, just take a very long to do so.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Time
by Varg Vikernes on Sat 1st Oct 2005 19:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Time"
Varg Vikernes Member since:
2005-07-06

Except that to do this now might take 100 years, but in 5 years it could take 1 year or less... So you replace the encryption on your data every x years?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Time
by re_re on Sun 2nd Oct 2005 02:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Time"
re_re Member since:
2005-07-06

lol @ 100 years

chances are pretty good this technology will be almost laughable in 10-15 years.

Maybe with current technology it would take 100 years.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Time
by thebackwash on Sat 1st Oct 2005 19:10 UTC in reply to "Time"
thebackwash Member since:
2005-07-06

yeah. you hit the nail on the head (probably)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Time
by Anonymous on Sun 2nd Oct 2005 00:07 UTC in reply to "Time"
Anonymous Member since:
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Too true, the security will be tested over a long period of testing and tinkering. Contests against new technology are obviously not going to yield any results, as no one has researched the targets yet.

Reply Score: 0

Interesting
by BryanFeeney on Sat 1st Oct 2005 14:38 UTC
BryanFeeney
Member since:
2005-07-06

I could see how this would be a good way of securing sensitive data. AES is the leader at the moment in symmetric encryption, so cracking it would be pretty hard; assuming a good key was picked. Picking a secure password these days is getting increasingly hard as computers can run through tests rapidly.

The choice of SHA-1 is a bit unnerving though, given that a flaw, rumoured in August of last year, was confirmed earlier this year. It's "good enough" at the moment, but most people are moving up to SHA-256 and even SHA-512.

What's really encouraging about this though is that a company opened their product to the public (albeit on a limited basis) and made no attempt to hide the flaws discovered. That's the best way to move forward, now that data increasingly has significant monetary value.

Reply Score: 2

v OMFG
by Anonymous on Sat 1st Oct 2005 14:50 UTC
I wander
by janedoe on Sat 1st Oct 2005 15:06 UTC
janedoe
Member since:
2005-07-12

I wander how VIA's stongbox would hold up if they gave a few out to the crypto/security community for, lets say, 6 months.
Usually when a company offers a cash reward for breaking the security in one of their products it's a publicity stunt.

Reply Score: 4

quantum cryptology
by 2501 on Sat 1st Oct 2005 15:50 UTC
2501
Member since:
2005-07-14

do you think this is useless compare to quantum cryptology???? are we already using quantum cyptography???
-2501

Reply Score: 1

the really good hackers
by morganth on Sat 1st Oct 2005 16:21 UTC
morganth
Member since:
2005-07-13

The really good hackers will pass on the $5,000 prize. They'll wait till they find one that's loaded with credit card numbers.

Reply Score: 5

RE: the really good hackers
by Celerate on Sun 2nd Oct 2005 21:14 UTC in reply to "the really good hackers"
Celerate Member since:
2005-06-29

Actually a lot of "hackers" have some sort of code of ethics, many of them find security holes and file bug reports before going public about the security holes a week or month later depending on what they think is fair warning time.

To me it sounds like you're saying that "hackers" can't be good at what they do and have a reasonable code of ethics at the same time. Sure, there's probably some out there like that, but definately not all of them. I tend to think that the majority of "hacking" is done for practise, recreation, learning, or because of curiosity, not because of malicious intent. In my opinion people hear about cases of "hackers" being involved in vandalism and "cyber-crime" more often because that kind of stuff that makes it to the news.

BTW. I put quotation marks around hackers and hacking because that's what you called them, not what I would call them. Originally hackers used to be people who were good on computers (usually programmers), it wasn't until the news started calling "cyber-criminals" hackers that the term became used for people who circumvent security. I'm still somewhat unhappy that the term was hijacked.

Reply Score: 1

heh
by Anonymous on Sat 1st Oct 2005 16:57 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Why not just break into it with an axe?

j/k

Reply Score: 0

AES/SHA
by Alex Forster on Sat 1st Oct 2005 20:02 UTC
Alex Forster
Member since:
2005-08-12

It's a harddrive that hardware-AES-encrypts your data using a SHA1 hash as the key. They're right, it's as unhackable as it gets. Though the amount of credit they took for that bothers me.

Reply Score: 1

RE: AES/SHA
by Anonymous on Sun 2nd Oct 2005 10:45 UTC in reply to "AES/SHA"
Anonymous Member since:
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Unhackable? Heh, If I wanted to get into StrongBox, I'd install a trojan that grabs the password. I mean, why bother cracking it when it's so easy to just subvert it?

Anyway, in the real world that's how a cracker would do it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: AES/SHA
by Celerate on Sun 2nd Oct 2005 21:23 UTC in reply to "RE: AES/SHA"
Celerate Member since:
2005-06-29

I agree. At shows and events like this the machines are set up to be as secure as possible, access to them both remotely and physically is limited far more than would be the case in real world use, and they have professionals to monitor, maintain, and operate the boxes unlike what sits behind many work and home computers.

The box might have held up in a completely controlled environment, but lets see how it survives out in the wild. Besides when companies spy on one another they usually get someone on the inside to compromise the computers at the source, and this is either going to be too complicated or too expensive for the average home user (who wouldn't know how to protect/maintain it anyway).

Reply Score: 1

encryption
by ahmetaa on Sat 1st Oct 2005 20:29 UTC
ahmetaa
Member since:
2005-07-06

hackers are over credited for strong encyrption. This kind of isolated systems are near-impossible to crack for the weak tools of the casual hackers. Basic distributed brute force attacks takes hundreds of years for even this basic 256bit cryptos. The only feasible attack is to steal the hard drive, and try to obtain the key using electronic measures. But this is not possible in this case either. posibly key is also inside the encryption ic.
Maybe one idea would be trying to guess the key using known input-output patterns but AFAIK AES do not have such weakneses.

Reply Score: 1

hacker
by Anonymous on Sat 1st Oct 2005 21:14 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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whats a hacker?

Reply Score: 0

RE: hacker
by re_re on Sun 2nd Oct 2005 02:04 UTC in reply to "hacker"
re_re Member since:
2005-07-06

i believe "cracker" was the word they were looking for..... but who's watching.

Reply Score: 1

Social engineering
by Anonymous on Sat 1st Oct 2005 21:40 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Social engineering usually works in a few minutes if you ask the idiot nicely to reveal the PW, and if that option doesn't work, then I'm afraid the nasty solution would follow if the data is known to be there and is very valuable.

In away, just using such crypto advertises that something of interest is there, surely best to hide the strong stuff inside of something known to be very weak to suggest nothing much there and put another decoy system infront marked AESinside.

Reply Score: 1

Attack the weakest point
by Anonymous on Sun 2nd Oct 2005 07:40 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Of course, this is only good as long as you never hook the drive up to a computer. There is of course, a mechanism to read the data on the drive, and that is to be logged in with the proper password to access the drive in the first place.

This won't stop someone from driving a Mack truck through a hole in the operating system. Once the OS is compromised, it doesn't take long to seperate a fool from his data.

But you have to really want it bad. So for most things this will work wonderfully.

Reply Score: 0