Linked by Eugenia Loli on Sun 16th Oct 2005 03:25 UTC, submitted by Roland Wolters
SuSE, openSUSE This blog-entry is a short tutorial how to set up Fedora Core's yum on a SUSE Linux 10.0 system, which is officially supported from 10.0 on. The article shows a short comparison of yum and yast as well as the problems yum still has because some servers still do not have yum support.
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v What I Want To Know Is
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 03:45 UTC
v RE: What I Want To Know Is
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 03:55 UTC in reply to "What I Want To Know Is"
Yum...
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 03:56 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Isnt YUM a little screwed up on Fedora...or was that Up2Date...

In either case...I prefer YaST

Reply Score: 0

RE: Yum...
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 08:46 UTC in reply to "Yum..."
Anonymous Member since:
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Up2date is crap but yum works fine on fedora.

I prefer to use apt on suse btw.

Reply Score: 0

And there is apt as well
by Anonymous Penguin on Sun 16th Oct 2005 03:58 UTC
Anonymous Penguin
Member since:
2005-07-06

Apt is also available from the media, for the first time.
However it has been unofficially available for years, and it has done an excellent job of giving you what was unsupported by SUSE, upgrades, downloading the latest KDE...
And now they say that apt will be gradually phased out because it is unmantained. I was surprised to read that, because I have seen it improving all the time.

Reply Score: 1

In my experience with Suse
by JonO on Sun 16th Oct 2005 04:06 UTC
JonO
Member since:
2005-09-23

Apt is the way to go.

Reply Score: 2

RE: In my experience with Suse
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 21:31 UTC in reply to "In my experience with Suse"
Anonymous Member since:
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> Apt is the way to go.

The problem with apt is that it's unmaintained - especially the port to rpm. Conectiva did the port, but stopped maintaining it some time ago - no distro is using it now, and nobody actively maintains it.

> urpmi is not a SUSE tool, therefore it is
> out of the question, as simple as that.

Why? yum wasn't a SuSE tool either, now it is. It wasn't even a Fedora tool, it became a Fedora tool later, and now it's also a SuSE tool. Things change.

BTW: Something will definitely change in the future. It's not yet decided, but it's clear that YaST in it's current state won't be the primary package manager in the future.

One thought is to change YaST's backend to yum with a new, friendlier frontend, and another idea is to choose a backend that supports multiple types of repositories. The only thing that's quite clear right now is that package management will be redesigned. Check out the openSuSE mailing lists.

Reply Score: 0

YUM stands for RedHat Program Updater?
by saterdaies on Sun 16th Oct 2005 05:59 UTC
saterdaies
Member since:
2005-07-07

No, wait! YUM stands for Yellow Dog Updater, Modified. So, it's not so much Fedora Core's YUM as it is Yellow Dog's YUM that Fedora started using.

Reply Score: 1

Rahul Member since:
2005-07-06

Yellow Dog Modified .

Reply Score: 1

yumex
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 06:48 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Yum is great. With yumex it is excellent.
YaST is great for many chores. I'm not sure package management is one of them.

Reply Score: 1

RE: yumex
by captain_knobjockey on Sun 16th Oct 2005 08:10 UTC in reply to "yumex"
captain_knobjockey Member since:
2005-08-23

YUM is not great, it dies when a repository is down. Urpmi from mandrake is far better in this concern. It is almost as good as APT.

Yast is too slow, and tries to be too many things at once. Have you noticed how much is going on in the background when you are just installing one RPM ?

Mandriva always get critisised for the drake tools, however, I think they are excellent. If an APT based distro, like Ubuntu, for example adopted the drake tools for configuring the system, and kept APT, then it would be a killer distro.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: yumex
by raver31 on Sun 16th Oct 2005 08:13 UTC in reply to "RE: yumex"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

exactly,
I, (being a mandriva user), think the drake tools are excellent, but, I also keep a Ubuntu machine and think it would be simply amazing to combine these with APT.
There have been a lot of people saying since YAST has been GPL'ed, there will be a lot more distros using it... no thanks.
Yast is nice to use, don't get me wrong, and it is good having just one place to go to do things... but I just don't like it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: yumex
by Rahul on Sun 16th Oct 2005 08:23 UTC in reply to "RE: yumex"
Rahul Member since:
2005-07-06

"YUM is not great, it dies when a repository is down."

No. It doesnt. It automatically switches mirrors and only fails if all the repositories are unreachable but no tool can succeed in that case

Reply Score: 1

worked through the article
by alcibiades on Sun 16th Oct 2005 07:32 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

And its a powerful argument for Debian or Debian based distros.

If you are trying to do installations you can walk away from, and only take the occasional call on, this is not a contender. I'm not sure that YaST is either, when it comes to installing and updating. Whereas if you install Synaptic, you only have to explain it once, have an icon somewhere to invoke it, and your user can manage fine. I really like Suse for end users from a usability point of view, hardware detection and so on, but if you put it in, you really have to be prepared to do all the new software installs and updates yourself.

Reply Score: 1

v RE: worked through the article
by AdamW on Sun 16th Oct 2005 08:35 UTC in reply to "worked through the article"
Yum vs Yast
by Knuckles on Sun 16th Oct 2005 08:46 UTC
Knuckles
Member since:
2005-06-29

Well, to the people criticising yast, do you realize that yast manages all things related to the system, not only packages? I agree, yast's package management is not very good, but why toss the whole yast "suite" just for one module?

As for apt vs yum vs yast, I think it's interesting that you can get the three of them right from suse 10 dvd.

I've used apt on my debian and suse systems, and used yum on my fedora core 4, and I have to say, I think yum works better, and it has some interesting features, like yesterday I wanted to remove kopete, and I used 'yum remove kopete' and instead of saying "there is no kopete package" or something, like apt would say, it searched and asked me if I wanted do remove kdenetwork-instantmessaging, the kde package that contained kopete. I've never seen apt do that, and it's pretty darn nice.

Also, if you got the 3 of them on the dvd, why argue? Those who like yast, use yast, those who like apt, use apt, and those who like yum, use yum. It's nice if you come from fedora or from debian to find the tool you're already used to. I, myself, keep the 3 of them =)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Yum vs Yast
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 13:58 UTC in reply to "Yum vs Yast"
Anonymous Member since:
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Well, to the people criticising yast, do you realize that yast manages all things related to the system, not only packages? I agree, yast's package management is not very good, but why toss the whole yast "suite" just for one module?

Agreed, but Yast probably isn't the way ahead. It is monolithic and can be clunky. Folks have to know where to find something. And it represents another "layer" to learn on top of the desktop DE. Changing settings from within the DE is probably the way to go, and of course Gnome and KDE are already some way down this road. If SUSE rewrote Yast as a series of discrete gtk modules, they'd probably be doing the Linux world an enormous favour (no flames for KDE, please).

Also, if you got the 3 of them on the dvd, why argue? Those who like yast, use yast, those who like apt, use apt, and those who like yum, use yum. It's nice if you come from fedora or from debian to find the tool you're already used to. I, myself, keep the 3 of them =)

Fair enough, but what this tells me is that SUSE don't currently know what they want to do. Not a good message for this company to give out. I'd much prefer one outstanding package manager to three so-so ones with varying degrees of support. If I had to choose it would be apt/synatpic which "Just Works" (TM) and hides a great deal of complexity from the user. Debian's system of feeding in suggested and recommended packages is also a very nice touch.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Yum vs Yast
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 16:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Yum vs Yast"
Anonymous Member since:
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You obviously never played with YaST on SUSE. First of all, it IS modular based. Second, all YaST modules can be found in KDE control center. So there's no need for 'gtk modules' because they already exist.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Yum vs Yast
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 18:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Yum vs Yast"
Anonymous Member since:
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[i]You obviously never played with YaST on SUSE. First of all, it IS modular based. Second, all YaST modules can be found in KDE control center. So there's no need for 'gtk modules' because they already exist.<i/>

I've "played" with SUSE for over four years now, thanks. And no, Yast is not modular in the way that one of the Gnomne configuration panels is modular. Say, Desktop -> Preferences -> Network Proxy. You don't have to fire up Yast in order to get to it. That's what I meant. The existence of Yast at all is, arguably, a distraction these days and more learning required though SUSE fans may not see it that way. (I would say the same of the KDE control center, too, regarding being monolithic. But then I try not to use KDE.)

Reply Score: 0

control centres
by nimble on Mon 17th Oct 2005 11:21 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Yum vs Yast"
nimble Member since:
2005-07-06

I've "played" with SUSE for over four years now, thanks. And no, Yast is not modular in the way that one of the Gnomne configuration panels is modular. Say, Desktop -> Preferences -> Network Proxy. You don't have to fire up Yast in order to get to it. That's what I meant. The existence of Yast at all is, arguably, a distraction these days and more learning required though SUSE fans may not see it that way. (I would say the same of the KDE control center, too, regarding being monolithic. But then I try not to use KDE.)

Neither the KDE nor the Yast control centre are monolithic. The modules of either are loaded on-demand when selected, and they can also be started outside the control centres.

It's due to that very modularity that Suse can integrate the Yast modules into the KDE control centre.

Reply Score: 1

The future is smart
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 08:47 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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I think the longterm plan for SUSE is to move to the smart package manager.

Reply Score: 0

Why not urpmi ?
by lezard on Sun 16th Oct 2005 09:28 UTC
lezard
Member since:
2005-10-11

Anyone knows why they prefer yum over urpmi ?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Why not urpmi ?
by Anonymous Penguin on Sun 16th Oct 2005 10:03 UTC in reply to "Why not urpmi ?"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

urpmi is not a SUSE tool, therefore it is out of the question, as simple as that.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Why not urpmi ?
by lezard on Sun 16th Oct 2005 16:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Why not urpmi ?"
lezard Member since:
2005-10-11

yum neither is a SUSE tool (as far as I know).

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Why not urpmi ?
by Anonymous Penguin on Sun 16th Oct 2005 16:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Why not urpmi ?"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

"yum neither is a SUSE tool (as far as I know)."

Indeed, but whilst urpmi is seen very much as a Mandriva tool (and even Mandriva might drop it eventually in favor of Smart), Yum by now is seen as distro agnostic.

Personally I prefer Apt.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Why not urpmi ?
by lezard on Sun 16th Oct 2005 21:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Why not urpmi ?"
lezard Member since:
2005-10-11

I do prefer apt, but my second choice is urpmi.
In fact, my order of preferences :
1) apt
2) urpmi
3) smart
4) yum
5) yast
Why ? Because my first need is to have a quick package manager. Take a look at apt-cache and its speed, it's brillant !

Reply Score: 1

jbauer
Member since:
2005-07-06

Yast, apt, yum... please... give us just one tool that does its job, and does it out of the box without having to hunt repositores through all the Internet. I really like Suse as a desktop distribution, but when installing and updating programs is still far easier in a distribution meant for geeks such as Gentoo, something is very wrong.

Reply Score: 1

Why yum?
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 14:14 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Apt/Synaptic is usable in SuSE since ages, and it's also ages better than yum- so who would bother?
I agree thaough that Smart4SuSE would be very nice...

Reply Score: 0

apt/yum/yast
by superstoned on Sun 16th Oct 2005 16:48 UTC
superstoned
Member since:
2005-07-07

i agree suse should adopt either apt or yum (please choose based on quallity arguments)... yast is excellent, but its package manager sucks. deeply.

Reply Score: 1

New yast package manager UI
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 17:12 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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For SUSE 10.1 YaST2's package manager module and Yast Online Update (YOU) will get quite some redevelopment.

Reply Score: 0

RE: New yast package manager UI
by lemmy on Mon 17th Oct 2005 00:01 UTC in reply to "New yast package manager UI"
lemmy Member since:
2005-07-10

says who? anonymous.

and if there's one thing that i've learned over the years, then it's not to believe anonymous.

Reply Score: 1

v Will the developers listen?
by Anonymous on Sun 16th Oct 2005 23:19 UTC
and this to update your system
by polarizer on Mon 17th Oct 2005 10:21 UTC
polarizer
Member since:
2005-10-13

Every SUSE user should now fous4[1], when (security) package updates are to do.

[1] http://fou4s.gaugusch.at

polarizers 2cent
http://www.codixx.de/polarizer.html

Reply Score: 1

v emerge
by Anonymous on Mon 17th Oct 2005 13:05 UTC
Apt is not an option...
by Anonymous on Mon 17th Oct 2005 13:28 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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At least for 64bit machines: apt4rpm does not support multi-architecture setups.

Yum does.

Reply Score: 0

Yast
by Anonymous on Mon 17th Oct 2005 19:43 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Yast is fine and very sophisticated.What perhaps might be handy is more online Yast.directory repository servers.Not that i would feel the urge to need more than what's allready packaged with SuSE 10 retail.

Reply Score: 0