A detailed look from bentuser.com at Windows Vista Beta 1 build 5231, including Windows Media Player, Media Center, the updated IE7 build, Aero Glass, Games, etc.
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Member since:
2005-07-09
RE: I tried Windows once
Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:2005-06-29
Lol, Systems in my home are as follows:
Mac Mini: - MacOS X 10.4
iBook: - MacOS X 10.4
Athlon64: - PC-BSD 0.8.2
Sony Vaio: - Windows XP Pro
Fujitsu-Siemens Scaleo: - SuSE 9.1 Pro
So I wouldn't call myself Windows biased, I publish pieces based on how interesting I found them, as there is a chance that what I personally find interesting will interest others.
So what is it? what are we publishing too many posts about? MS? Ubuntu? and what are we biased towards? MS? Ubuntu? BSD? Mac OS X? because we have been accused of all of these, so really it seems we're pretty balanced or we have personality disorders that permutate every now and then bringing a whole new Bias into the equation.
Member since:2005-10-02
Perhaps I read wrong, but it seemed to me that the article was pretty critical in regard to the functionality and the look of it. For once I've read a review from a person thinking like me.
I'd turn off all the eye candy as the first thing, that's for sure. But then it's unlikely I'd upgrade to Vista. Unless it unchanges radically 
)
Member since:2005-07-06
OSNews has a job to do, and that job is to report News based on Operating Systems etc etc
Now, this might come as a shock, but OSNews does not make up the stories. It mearly provide links to news that other people put out.
Now, it could be that there is no news that week for your distro of choice and 20 for Windows Vista.
To not report news is censorship and this site does not support that.
How is this so hard for you all to see ?
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OSNews has a job to do, and that job is to report News based on Operating Systems etc etc
Didn't blame OSNews for releasing the articles did I? I don't believe so. Maybe you'd like to go read my ENTIRE post instead of just a couple lines.
Now, this might come as a shock, but OSNews does not make up the stories. It mearly provide links to news that other people put out.
You're a bright one. I'll have to give you that.
Now, it could be that there is no news that week for your distro of choice and 20 for Windows Vista.
Wasn't aware that Windows XP was referred to as a distro, but regardless, I hardly think Vista has enough impact or importance at this point to be worthy of 20 "news" articles. It is still what, a year away?
How is this so hard for you all to see?
Here, I'll make this simple so you can understand the point I was trying to make. Ready?
I don't know why other people complain about Windows articles. I'm not them. For me, however, it is because most of them are valueless, substanceless, useless, uninformative, pointless, poo, etc.
How many years have we been subjected to Longhorn/Vista "news"? How much of it has been relevant?
At least with Ubuntu, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, SuSE, and others that we've seen a lot of lately, you can buy/download them or will be able to do so in the near future (within a month). When can you get Vista? A year from now?
Yeah, that matters.
Finally, I am talking about news articles in general. Not simply those found on OSNews. If you take a look at ALL of the Windows Vista articles over the last week there have been what, one?
Member since:2005-06-29
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Are you daft? Seriously, I wish people would actually learn how to read.
I didn't say I was sick of Windows news articles, but rather sick of pointless Windows news articles. You'll also note that I didn't direct the comment at OSNews, but rather at Microsoft's marketing machine.
I don't mind Ubuntu articles (even though I don't use it) because Ubuntu is actually RELEASING STUFF.
Member since:
2005-08-29
Not sure this is more propaganda than all the linux distribution reviews we see. Everyone writes about what he likes.
Now, is this really the definitive look for Windows Vista in the screenshot? Looks really like a cheap theme from the early days of linux. The last time I tried Ubuntu it look much more polished and professional. Not to mention my good ole mac of course.
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That was not biased, it was a decent review. Now this would be biased:
http://microsoft.toddverbeek.com/index.html
http://Microsoft.com/
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I still don't understand why it took so long for the biggest software house in the world to release a product like the one we're seeing today. Fact is, either they're holding tons of stuff in their secret labs, or they lack focus. The beta we're seeing is not only unpolished and unfinished, but sometimes simply designed the wrong way. Where is the COMPLETE rewrite Microsoft and biased journalists talk about? I don't know. I'm highly disappointed.
Member since:2005-07-06
First of all, it's well known (if you read OSnews) that Microsoft reset work on
Vista last year in July. Started with a fresh slate using the Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 code.
Also, I don't think I've seen anyone with a clue say Vista would be a "COMPLETE rewrite" anytime in the past 2 years.
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Does anybody know any linux distribution I can download with hardware accelerated graphics and 3D effects as standard (like OSX, Vista)?
No, because you need an Nvidia card to get those kind of effects in Linux and then its still very unstable. If you want to try, here is a guide I made:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=75527
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Yeah, except the user can't always be trusted. People have a way of clicking through things that don't concern them, which means this is just as useless as automatically downloading/running them without access restrictions. It's completely possible to automatically run or download programs without giving them complete access and allowing them to destroy the computer, it's just that microsoft, apple, etc. obviously don't feel like expending the effort to do so (I have yet to see an OS that has actually at least tried to implement this).
-bytecoder
Member since:2005-07-06
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2005-07-06
I'll never get Vista. Really. And I'm no [other OS] zealot.
Eye candy is something, but heavily f*cking up the usability of the windows is another very different thing. Window titles have been rendered unusable with that oh, so cool transparency. Window controls (min, max, close) wider but shorter in height? Why, if I may ask?
And in general, it seems that someone at MS has forgotten completely about contrast. Light grey over white, dark grey over black. Sure, that will be welcome after I spend 14+ hours in front of my monitor.
Member since:2005-06-29
It's a CTP. The usability party-poopers haven't got their hands on it yet . Trust me, the release is not going to look anything like the CTP given all these new graphic abilities.
Calm down people. Sheesh. By the time it releases all the animations will probably be small and ultra quick, and you won't be able to do anything but have them on or off. Well, unless you pay $20 to someone like stardock or wincustomize for software to do it for you...
Member since:2005-07-06
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2005-07-07
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I have to admit, that although I am working as a sysadmin in a Microsoft dominated environment, I am a having more than a little difficulty finding a sound business case for upgrading.
I appreciate that MS has awoken IE from its coma, and sure, some of the GUI changes looks nice (and some donīt). But what are the really compelling reasons as a business user for upgrading (who couldnīt care less about a new media player)? Where are the productivity gains, that justify upgrading the hardware, and starting a huge expensive rollout project.
I have the same feeling that I had with Win ME. ME was simply the wrong OS at the wrong time, because it lacked the the things that made Win2000 a sure winner, while it kept the things that made Win98 a completely outdated OS.
I no longer see the desktop as being value-added. The desktop has become a part of basic infrastructure, and is losing the strategic importance that it had, just a few years ago.
Windows Vista will be the fattest client ever - delivered at a time when we are looking more and more into thin clients, web apps, virtualization etc, in order to decrease deployment costs. Finding a business sponsor for a Vista migration project will not be easy.
I am really starting to think, that Vista is the wrong OS at the wrong time. I feel the exact same lack of enthusiasm for Vista, as I once did for ME.
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http://www.bentuser.com/image.aspx?ID=c655ca0d-740f-4a1f-9880-64174...
Vistaglassophobia, noun: A severe fear of, or aversion to, Windows Vista's new user interface. See also: Masochism.
Seriously folks, I've been a diehard Windows user since 3.1, however I came across this screenshot in a review for the latest CTP release, and this is just crazy cluttered... let me clue you in on a AIM conversation I had with a good friend (and Mac user) on this very issue.
[05:12] Knight of NI: heya
[05:12] BooberryWoofles: hey how ya doin
[05:12] Knight of NI: eh, I'm gettin by I supose
[05:12] BooberryWoofles: ditto
[05:13] BooberryWoofles: digestive system is in an uproar, cant sleep
[05:13] Knight of NI: same here heh
[05:14] BooberryWoofles: reading about windows vista, i'm fascinated by the new feature enhancements, however I am NOT happy with the new start menu, too cluttered and it's an eyesore
[05:16] Knight of NI: I certainly won't be impressed whatever they come up with hehe
[05:17] BooberryWoofles: well i think OS X has its user interface problems as well, just in different areas hehe
[05:19] Knight of NI: it's not just the ui I've just never enjoyed using windows, but thats just me
[05:21] BooberryWoofles: understandable
[05:22] Knight of NI: but then again I was already a mac user at the time so I just saw a knockoff os anyway hehe, but as long as they make actual improvements on it I guess
[05:22] BooberryWoofles: ya, windows 3.1 was my first GUI
[05:25] BooberryWoofles: what's ironic about vista is, with all the trouble they're putting into features to help you organize and find you files and such, the start menu is beginning to look like that junk drawer everyone has that holds everything from old drained out batteries to screwdrivers, to old warranties on electronics you sold on ebay years ago...
[05:26] Knight of NI: hehe
[05:26] BooberryWoofles: i mean seriously lemme get a pic for ya
[05:27] Knight of NI: but old batteries and empty cigarette lighters stuck to the drawer by candy goo is fun
[05:28] BooberryWoofles: lololol
[05:28] BooberryWoofles: i think MS calls that a UI
[05:29] Knight of NI: maybe they'll have a hand sanitizer for when you stick your hands deep in the drawer and your fingers are stuck together when you pull em out
[05:29] Knight of NI: hehe
[05:29] BooberryWoofles: look at this start menu on the bottom left, it's insane...
[05:30] BooberryWoofles: lol mind if i borrow those comments for my blog? thats good stuff
[05:30] Knight of NI: nah go right ahead
[05:30] BooberryWoofles: *snicker*
Seriously folks, I dont know what to click on first, let alone how to attempt keyboard shortcut navigation for the disabled, and from what I'm reading, MS is removing a lot of the customization options so if you're not happy with the interface then tough. Please someone tell me this isn't true...
Hey Mr. Gates, you guys have got a lot of time until release, don't squander it, get on this issue pronto, k?
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At the risk of feeding a troll, people in the USA are too busy using the software to care about its origin, be it open or closed source. Most people really don't give a damn; if it works, that's enough. If it costs money, well, as long as it's reasonable, they'll pay.
Welcome to the free market.
Member since:2005-06-29
And the feedback on this site is an excellent illustration of just how they do in fact care. Not over politics, but over the practical result fo closed software: Users get less choice in its direction because they politically have no power whatsoever.
Sure, Microsoft has always made concessions for certain groups. But I think the nature of the current Microsoft does not lend itself to that: They seem to be more into doing things how they want to rather than compatibility (like the old guys were into).
But Microsoft isn't going to listen to "DiscoJoe" on #microsofties (on irc.microsoft.com) for their featurelist. All he can do is threaten to move to someone elses software, and they know he won't do it anyway .
With FOSS software, if you don't like the new version: Apply bugfix patches to the old version. If you can't get the bugfix patches (often the case, especially with smaller projects), fix the bugs you want fixed yourself and use the old one: Or even contract someone to fix the bugs if you've got money. But forks remain rare: Because developers in the FOSS community care about user feedback because they love good user feedback.
It's no fun developing with no user feedback, trust me, I know.
Member since:2005-07-06
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or do their widgets look like something Sony's R&D GUI lab crapped out. All this plastic/blue/shiny effect all over every button, mixed with the gray slate look, mixted with the transparent frames. So far I see nothing really new, besides the 3d Chess game, which looks oddly similar to Apple's Chess game. Their WMP also looks like an iTunes rip off. While the features are knew compared to previous Windows versions, this just looks more and more like an over-the-top Apple/Linux knock off.
Member since:
2005-10-10
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Yes, you can turn off the "glass" UI, if you want to - and quite a few people will want to, I should imagine. Several of the devs in my shop turn off the Windows XP theme, and switch back to "classic", for example.
As to the UI being built on the Windows Presentation Foundation - this isn't quite true. WPF is part of the managed WinFX API, and the key assemblies for that don't even ship "in the box" with current CTPs of Vista. Both WPF and the Vista shell are built on top of DirectX-based rendering shells, and, for all I know, share some implementation under the covers, but they are not the same thing.
As to changes in the way the interface is used - there were substantial changes between 3.1/NT3.51, Win95/NT4, Win2k and Windows XP. Those changes cause some people some pain, but often they are a change for the better, when new muscle memories are learned. Just because something is familiar it will be easier in the short term (where you tweak your mouse to get to the tabs, for instance), but in the long term, it might prove more productive. I've found that with several features of the new Explorer - when I go back to WinXP after a day with Vista, it takes frustratingly more clicks or drags to perform a simple operation.
However, I agree about the new Media Center API - it is just horrible!
M
Member since:
2005-06-29
His bonus rant seems to forget the first 12 years of Windows.
Excluding 3.11 and under, as they were easier to upgrade (theoretically):
Win95
Win95b
Win95...
Win98
Win98SE
WinME
Win2K
WinXP
WinXP SP2 (seems to have caused almost as much trouble as a full upgrade for people dependant on a lot of badly written network software: A lot of companies).
Companies don't care how fast the release cycle is, they care how long the support cycle is. Since WPF support is being backported, at least to XP, I don't see this as a problem at all.
He obviously didn't think that rant through before he published it.
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I'm secretly hoping that the slick design of Haiku and its open source nature will screw both Windows and Linux. Why? I loved BeOS, and Haiku is such a cool name. Call me shallow. If I can get both sides hating me, I'm pretty sure I'm doing something right.
I'd like to see Haiku develop a bit of organisation and spine, by enforcing standards through an OpenGL style ARB, and ramp up its marketing for developers and users. I've got no interest in stroking the egos of ranting zealots who can't design or code for shit.
I know this is a prety blunt view, but the Windows monopoly and OSS religeon is about as wearing as it gets, and Haiku looks like the best option going to cut through all that shit. Personally? I'd like to see IBM et al dump Linux and switch to BeOS.
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#I'm secretly hoping that the slick design of Haiku and its open source nature will screw both Windows and Linux. Why? I loved BeOS, and Haiku is such a cool name. Call me shallow. If I can get both sides hating me, I'm pretty sure I'm doing something right.
I'd like to see Haiku develop a bit of organisation and spine, by enforcing standards through an OpenGL style ARB, and ramp up its marketing for developers and users. I've got no interest in stroking the egos of ranting zealots who can't design or code for shit.#
Join the club. I can't code but I know a decent OS when I use one and still nothing has entered the market from a desktop point of view that was as elegant as BeOS. All I call for is get rid of the POSIX crap and simplify the file system layout.
Haiku, you are our only hope...
Get to work developers (whip crack heard loudly in the background)
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Look at all the moronic Microsoft haters coming out of the woodwork to spew their hatred. Somewhere there's a predictable moron saying how Windows is finally starting to catch up to Linux, while another predictable moron says how Windows is finally starting to catch up to Mac OS X. And of course there's your even more deluded bunch who insist Windows will never catch up to Linux or OS X. Meanwhile, the world remains overwhelmingly entrenched in Windows, and happily goes about its business, ignoring these zealots and their impotent, useless fury.
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i will never use windows due to philosophical requirements regarding free software, but for those who do choose it, there is a need for a better platform than they have today, holes in windows have become a societal issue, we need them plugged even if we are rooting against ms.
Member since:
2005-08-27
What I don't like about the F/OSS community is that linux advocates have hijacked the community.
I still love open source and free software, but it doesn't have to be a political statement, it doesn't have to be anti-microsoft and pro-linux. There can be F/OSS software on Windows itself.
Windows is not open source, but it is an open platform as opposed to a closed platform like a video game console.
I do not care about Linux. I think it has made Windows better with security and stability and I like that part, but I think it's way overhyped and it's used way too much as a political statement and people like this have hijacked the original excitement about F/OSS.
I wish there was a L/F/OSS movement so not everyone would lump linux into the F/OSS movement as F/OSS does not belong exclusivly to linux but for Windows also.
There is a place for F/OSS and there is a place for closed source software for a fee as well, there is a place for both.
However you can have free and open source software on windows and there is a lot of it on windows, but some how it mainly is a linux movement now and I think that is sad.
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Doesn't anyone care about what the new OS can do? It seemed like the article focused far too much on how it looks, what themes, and backgrounds were used. Unless that's all that changed in Vista from XP, lets have the rest of the important stuff. How about performance? How about reliability? Did they change anything architecturally (this is a new OS, after all)? C'mon, lets have a real review of these things.
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hey guys anyone knows the beta 2 release date?
WinVistaSecrets.com is saying it's gonna be on 16Dec05
The thread is here:
http://www.winvistasecrets.com/forum/index.php/topic,857.0.html
anyone can confirm?
