"Despite its recent announcement of servers based on AMD64 CPUs, Sun Microsystems is still gung-ho about its 64-bit UltraSPARC computers. The newest addition to Sun's workstation array is the portable Ultra 3 Mobile Workstation. At first glance you might think it's a fancy-looking notebook system, but on closer inspection you'll discover that it's got all the power of a Sun Blade workstation in a fraction of the size."
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Member since:
2005-07-06
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2005-07-06
Member since:2005-08-02
sound like a joke ...
And the sad thing is, Sun doesn't get it.
Chances are, if somebody *needs* 64bit heavylifting in the field they've got an AMD laptop running a 64bit flavor of Linux or Win XP64. At a fraction of the cost.
Or, given the kinds of project you'd need that level of computing for, they've also sprung for the generators so that you can have the full size server out there in the field with you.
Don't get me wrong. Sun builds some amazing hardware. There's about $75k of Sun hardware in the server room the building I'm in right now, and the main box (a sun quad proc the size of a small fridge) has yet to get bogged down.
But when I look at those laptops -- and that's what they are -- in bang for buck terms, this (http://linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lc2464.html) is going to do almost everything the entry level Sun can do, for half the price, and it takes up to 2 gigs of ram.
Finally, $3,400 and they can't give built in wireless G? Talk about looking like moneygrubbers!
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Member since:
2005-07-21
I'd love to buy a SPARC, and I'd definitely be willing to pay a price premium... but not _THAT_ much. If the 17" was under $5k then I could start considering it. I'm guessing low demand makes unit costs higher... astromically so. I think Sun will drop the SPARC in a few years (it'll be a shame) and then I'll force myself to splurge on on of the greatest units they ever make.
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These notebooks are made for companies that NEED portable SPARC solutions and are willing to pay any price to get have it.
They're not designed, marketed, engineered, or intended for normal people. Most of us can get by just fine using the x86 version of Solaris on a normal laptop.
Member since:
2005-07-06
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The 17" model is indeed a heavy laptop that is power hungry. This is why I would recommend the smaller configs, because they use the USIIe chips that are more power/heat friendly. I use to have a Naturetech 737 laptop for work not too long ago and can attest that it's a very capable laptop that won't burn your lap and has a good battery life (2-4 hours). It was extremely light compaired to a Compaq laptop or an Apple powerbook.
As for his comments on Solaris 10, there is an image editor (GIMP), a compiler (GCC), and lots of other software included in Solaris 10. You just have to figure it out in the menus or the command line, make sure that /usr/sfw/bin is in your path:) From a work standpoint, I would say that S10 has all the apps I need to get my job done:
gnome-terminal
StarOffice 7
Evolution
Gaim
Freeware utils in /usr/sfw/
It doesn't have quake or doom bundled, but that's not what an enterprise OS is for at work right?
RE: Got a few details wrong on this one..
Member since:
2005-07-08
I guess you haven't priced Tadpole's products, including a dual processor laptop (http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/html/products/mobile/bullfrog-dual/). Although Tadpole prefers to give pricing information to serious potential buyers, they are not cheap.
The prices are competitive for what Sun is offering, remember this is not off-the-shelf PC hardware and it is definitely not built or priced like it.
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Sun Microsystems is not trying to compete with Tadpole (now owned by General Dynamics) or Naturetech. It seems to be the case that the Ultra 3 line of notebook computers are based on Tadpole and Naturetech products. The 15 inch models come from Tadpole, while the 17 inch widescreen is a Naturetech product. Sun is just a reseller of these notebooks.
Now I shall discuss the pricing. Compared to other notebook computers these are expensive. But compared to the first laptops and other expenses (cars, house, investments), they are not so expensive and I would not mind paying for one. For example, a typical car costs in the range of $30,000 to $60,000+, while a decent house in the bay area is about $850,000 to $1.3 million. Now $6,000 to $10,000 for a quality notebook computer does not seem like much. It has decent battery life, performance, screen resolution (bigger is not always better for notebooks), ECC memory, a reliable operating system, and more. It would be able to run all the applications I want (StarOffice, a desktop environment, Flash player, web browser, email client, image manipulation program, Java programs, Acrobat Reader 7, etc). I know that this is targeted at organizations that need to work with Solaris/Sparc applications, but my point is that it can make a decent notebook for many individuals too.
I can live with the 802.11b and the 2D video card, because I would still be able to get the job done reliably on a computer integrated by a single vendor.
If I were to get one of these, it would be the one based on the Tadpole Viper, as in my opinion it offers the best combination of mobility and capability.
However, these computers are not for everybody.
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Member since:
2005-08-02
It's not just for people that need 64-bit. It's for people that need SPARC.
Other than having some proprietary software that's SPARC only and needing to run it out in the field ...? And I'm not saying that that's not a legit situation or it won't happen.
But Sun's pricing these as if a Business isn't going to say, "My AMD laptop plays nicely with the Sun down in the server room. And I can play City of Heroes on it at night in my hotel room."
So, unless it's absolutely gotta be a SPARC in the box ...
And that's the problem with Sun (and SGI) as a whole. Their prices still reflect the time when they the kings of 64 bit superwide datapath computers and if you needed that, by God, they had you by the short and curlies.
Today, however, there are a bunch of off the shelf AMD and Apple products that are comperable to Sun's low and midrange computers (tell me a maxxed out Quad G5 wouldn't make an awesome server) for a fraction of the price. And Sun (and SGI) haven't yet wrapped their brains around that fact.
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Member since:
2005-07-06
« It's not just for people that need 64-bit. It's for people that need SPARC. »
Well then, get yourself a nice Intel/AMD laptop and use remote desktop!!! More so if you know that their's a wired/wireless net access where you're going to work.
We have many SUN where I work, running Oracle DB. But paying 9700$ for a SPARC laptop is stupid.
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Member since:2005-07-06
«Think Government and Military.»
Hey, I work there... And we don't need them THAT much. And as I said, Remote Desktop is your friend. When they deploy troups, they allways have a commgroup following, giving them connectivity. (at least here, in Canada).
They are not left outside alone. They are connected.
We use Terminal Server, Citrix, Oracle 10gAS (Web applications), remote desktop. It's light and fast even for the heavy applications.
Member since:
2005-07-06
Because of the dominance of SPARC in the Sun deployed base, but as AMD machine get more popular AND ISV's get more stuff ported to Solaris x86 on AMD, the need for the SPARC laptop will become diminished.
As Sun improves the AMD line and they get more popular, porting between the SPARC and AMD versions of Solaris will be more dominant, requiring little more than a simple compile if you follow their x-platform guidelines (much like NeXT when they supported 4 different processors).
Currently, of course, there's more SPARC based bits that can make x86 ports more than a simple recompile, but that will simply fade with time.
Like others have said, if you need portable SPARC, then you need one of these or another SPARC laptop.
If you need portable 64Bit Solaris, then there are modern AMD notebooks that will do the job.
Member since:
2005-07-06
But they're way over priced; a UltraSPARC IIe running at 600Mhz, loaded with a decent ATI video card and ddr memory, priced at, for argument sake, $1500 would be great value, and the volume alone, which the laptop would attract would definately make up for any decrease in margins that would occur.
What SUN is volume to push their revenue and profits up - and I'm sorry, when cuts are made, the first things to get cut are bits of hardware and software from companies who demand premiums for the mystic factor. They finally got it, to some degree with their servers, when will they wake up and finally reduce the price of the SPARC workstations to truely represent the price/performance when compared to similar offerings out there - case in point, the Quad PowerMacs on offer by Apple.
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To get a better perspective on the price, compare it to this quote I recieved from Partners Data Systems (a Tadpole reseller).
Tadpole BullFrog 2400S Notebook
- (2) 1.28 GHz UltraSPARCIIIi Processor
- 17" SXGA+ Active Matrix Display (1280x1024)
- 24-bit 2-D Graphics
- Dual Integrated RJ-45 Gigabit Ethernet Ports
- 16GB RAM (8x2GB)
- Type II PCCard/PCMCIA Slot
- Li-Ion Battery Pack
- (2) USB Type-1 Interfaces
- (2) PS/2 Ports
- External Video (DB15 VGA) Port
- 56K Modem
- Stereo Speakers
- Kensington Lock attachment
- Solaris 8 and Star Office 7 Suite
- 80GB, 5400RPM IDE Disk Drive
- Internal DVD/RW Drive
- Spare Battery Pack
- External USB Floppy
- 802.11b Wireless
- Warranty: 3 Years
List Price $46,933
Discount ($3,248)
Discounted Price $43,685
Member since:---
To get a better perspective on the price, compare it to this quote I recieved from Partners Data Systems (a Tadpole reseller).
Tadpole BullFrog 2400S Notebook
- (2) 1.28 GHz UltraSPARCIIIi Processor
- 17" SXGA+ Active Matrix Display (1280x1024)
- 24-bit 2-D Graphics
- Dual Integrated RJ-45 Gigabit Ethernet Ports
- 16GB RAM (8x2GB)
- Type II PCCard/PCMCIA Slot
- Li-Ion Battery Pack
- (2) USB Type-1 Interfaces
- (2) PS/2 Ports
- External Video (DB15 VGA) Port
- 56K Modem
- Stereo Speakers
- Kensington Lock attachment
- Solaris 8 and Star Office 7 Suite
- 80GB, 5400RPM IDE Disk Drive
- Internal DVD/RW Drive
- Spare Battery Pack
- External USB Floppy
- 802.11b Wireless
- Warranty: 3 Years
List Price $46,933
Discount ($3,248)
Discounted Price $43,685
I bet you could shave off a few thousand dollars if you drop the external USB floppy drive.
(Now don't get me wrong, I would love to have one of those. I just wish my job was important enough that my boss would buy one for me.)
