"The Debian Weekly News for October 25th, 2005 discusses the upcoming graphical frontend to the debian-installer as part of the most recent minutes of the monthly Debian Installer team meeting. It appears that after all of these years the text based Debian installation is finally getting the boot." Screenshots here.
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2005-10-18
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This isn't meant to replace the current text-based interface, but it will be there as an alternative.
The main advantage that the graphical interface has is the improved ability to show various non-latin scripts. Other than that, it isn't much different. E.g. the partitioning could use some improvements: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=486&slide=1...
Anyway, this is a WIP and has made huge improvements recently: https://debian.polito.it/downloads/d-i_gtk_snapshots/
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In fact I've never believed that the problem with Debian installation was the curses based installer, in fact it's not even a big issue IMO, but rather that it's too long, and the steps not always clear for a first-timer. If they're only putting a GTK frontend on top of the same old installer, it won't change much the impression that Debian is difficult to install. Apart from this, yes it looks good, and if it doesn't make the process any easier, makes it more pleasant at least.
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2005-06-29
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Lilo is available in expert mode. Or if you hit escape and enter the main menu, i beleive. I agree that the disk partitioning is confusing, but it has several autopartitioning schemes if you don't want to deal with it. It can resize NTFS and FAT, but that's not quite obvious. It can do LVM. It can use XFS, JFS, reiser3, ext2, ext3 and create new FAT partitions. So it is very complete underneath the confusing interface.
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2005-10-11
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2005-10-11
How about all linux distro's standardise on a front-end as an option? They can still include there own, but this way the user will be prompted with "Would you like to use the Standard Linux Installer?"
I propose redhats installer anaconda as a frontend. You know the same thing a user see everytime they try a new or other distro. How cool would that be.
Note: I am not saying distro's should get rid of there other installer.
Edited 2005-11-01 10:42
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open source is about Choose. Forgods sake most distros have patched kernels and there own version of this or that. yet the one application that should be used once per machine I hear so much complainig about. why are you installing a different distro all the time? what kind of work do you do on a machine that it needs to have a new distro on it all the time ? Why would the distros/developers spend time to work with all the other distro/developers to make a standard installed that will work with all installs? If Linux is your Hobby cool its mine to but to complain about no standard installer is the job of a pointy haied boss. If you realy feel this way then start coding(and let me know I'll try to help) but if not have fun learning all quarks and oddities that make each distro DIFFERENT
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http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=486&slide=2...
A checkbox title including a question mark - this is weird. Either give people a question, or just a checkbox for a choice...
And... there is no second choice here
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I started to type the same thing you did then I looked at the link the parent comment was pointing to. Now I agree with them, for the question the installer gives there it doesn't make sense.
The way the question is worded it looks like the options are 1. check it and let it get installed where specified 2. uncheck it and let it not get installed anywhere.
While we all know unchecking puts it somewhere else it should specify that. Everyone who's installed linux before would understand what is meant,however someone who hasn't might not.
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2005-07-06
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GUI installer cannot be just a graphical frontend to the old question - answer semantics. The reason GUI installer is an asked feature has nothing to do with eye candy. People want a more advanced system to express installation choices. Artificial serialization off the decision process into questions is unnatural and tedious. This is especially visible if you try to do advanced partitioning in expert mode. New grafical partitioner could do a huge difference.
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2005-09-26
On the subject of partitioners, I must say I like the Mandrake Partitioner the best. But the last Mandrake I've tried was 9.0. (It was extremely buggy, so I settled with solid as a rock woody + backports at the time). I was dissapointed in the Anaconda installer when I tried it for Fedora Core 4. I don't remember what happened exactly , but it was buggy and I didn't succeed in resizing my existing ext3 partitions. I don't enjoy being a beta tester for a enterprise edition I will never use. I'd rather test debian unstable in a chroot. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-tips.en.html#s-chroo...
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2005-07-08
I guess there's a contest somewhere for the ugliest installer ever and they really want to win it. C'mon, if you're going to replace the old _quite good_ text based installer with this one, just don't. It's just plain ugly. People shouldn't be allowed to create such monters.
Don't get me wrong but Debian is one big project with alot of developers. I'm sure some of them could have been able to write one great looking and really functionnal installer in a matter of days.
Anyway, maybe they forgot to enter in the digital age but '80 looking GUI arent really appealing now. Stick with a text based one if you can't make something _a bit_ decent.
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Ugly is subjective, you may not like the plain look of the buttons and other widgets, but someone else may be put off by flashy graphics.
As this is just the installer, why shouldn't they be allowed to make it as simple and non-obstructive as possible, leaving you to use whatever themes/desktop environments you like once you get it up and running.
Time would be some much better invested in improving the functionality and accessibility of the installer.
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Ugly is subjective, you may not like the plain look of the buttons and other widgets, but someone else may be put off by flashy graphics.
Yes, it's relative but there are generally accepted practices and generally things to avoid. It's like saying there is no clear&concise C code because "clear and concise" are relatove. Hell, I'm a relativist and consider the "but it's relative man" thing a copout. Relativity talks about no absolutes not that there is no meaning to anything... thats cyncicism.
Having a large stack of buttons ungrouped is definitely bad. Also buttons require breathing room around them. Also there should be more "flow" to it. While it is a good idea the the steps are more-or-less in order... each step should probably have it's screen with a sidebar (prolly on your left hand side for ltr languages) enumerating the steps and bolding the current one. If you need to redo something there should be forward and back keys.
Also by grouping the steps together you'll reduce the odds that some one will install grub and lilo which would clobber eachother.
By the way... does anyone consider Anaconda flashy? Not that I'm saying it's the ideal... but I'd say it's a good start.
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The ncurses interface to Debian Installer gives you Aptitude if you want to choose individual packages. I wonder if this gtk interface will give you Synaptic? Also the new slick package installer/uninstaller frontend from Ubuntu breezy could be nice if combined with Debian Installer. Anyway, this GUI interface opens many new possibilities for the future development of Debian Installer. :-)
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It's a great start, but who has faith that Debian will ever produce a genuinely user-friendly solution to anything? Chances must be that the real work of this interface will end up being done by another crew - Ubuntu, Knoppix, etc. Unless Ubuntu or whoever decides that reinventing the wheel like this is not worth the hassle and plumps for an adapted anaconda or similar.
In any case, Debian isn't that hard to install unless you choose the "expert" option, for example, when you are far from being an expert. The real fun starts post-install when you find that you'll need to learn the "Debian way" of system configuration but the howtos for this either don't exist or are very cunningly hidden.
Just to test your steel, Debian still maintains that real men use the frightening and ugly Aptitude instead of something easy and friendly like Synaptic which, curiously, works extremely well on plenty of other distros.
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Using the stable branch, synaptic is fine, but only aptitude will guide you through tricky dependency situations using testing/unstable or a lot of third party repositories.
For documentation /usr/share/doc/<package>. Install debian-reference and dhelp.
Edited 2005-11-01 13:17
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i have never had any problems with the current debian installers partitioning methods. i always thought it was easy and reliable. graphical is cool i guess. i know for sure id rather use debians partitioning rather than fdisk. i recently used gparted great tool its early for it but it suited my needs when i got my sata drive and plugged it in and needed to partition it, would probably be of too early release for use in debians installer tho. but i think they should use something that was going to be part of the desktop as a tool that you could use anytime, well that doesnt go for just partitioning either i guess. anytype of configuration you do in the installer should be available to the desktop system after installed, whether it be partitioning, network or X.... etc anyway i like the graphical installers look. its debian.
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"The AMD64 architecture will be added to the official archive after Sarge is released. Thus, the next official stable Debian release - codename Etch - will have full native amd64 support.
The unofficial Sarge distribution is hosted on amd64.debian.net. The porters team promises to support the unofficial Sarge for the same time period as Debian supports the official Sarge.
The Debian Security Team supports updates to the unofficial Sarge release, which are made available on security.debian.org."
http://www.debian.org/ports/amd64/
The next stable version of Debian, codenamed "Etch", is currently scheduled for release on 4 December 2006.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/10/msg00004.html
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Please read the actual bulletin before commenting. The synopsis is wrong when it states that this is an official replacement to the official installer. Please compare this to other experiments going on such as porting the installer to Anaconda and implementing Yast.
A few developers are experimenting with a straight port of the installer to GTK and are obviously still in the beginning stages. I would assume that they have spent more time on the technological aspect than the shine and sparkle at this point.
Instead of examining the widgets and layout, we should probably examine how GTK and DirectFB have been used.
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The very term "newbie" is elitist and patronizing, and the idea that Debian should be closed to all but a select few with "the knowledge" is deeply conceited and arrogant.
Debian is not "about" anything in particular, another conceited and rather ignorant idea. Debian is about whatever you want it to be about, like most other things in life. I'm typing this on Sid. For me Debian is about an ideal - a universal operating system. This is fine for me, but if the next guy has other ideas then that is fine too.
Perhaps you're a Debian developer? I hope not, though there do seem to be more than a few cranks among their number.
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> text installers are imtimadating.
They are not, if you know how to use them.
I can use a text based installer. I use Redhat's and it was more user friendly than debians.
It is as I said before, Debian people are unwilling to make things simple.
I apologise that is very anti-Debian, what I should be saying is they simply don't understand the end user, and what is simple to them.
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Newbies who are not willing to learn are neither needed nor wanted on Debian. [snip...] Everybody wanting to try debian should have a minimal knowledge required to run it.
Good Lord, there are still people like this out there?? Ick.
A simple installer you use no more than 30 minutes is not "the product". Its a installer of the product.
True, but if the user boots the installer and can't use it - or is afraid to try - the product will never be seen, let alone used.
This is not what Debian is about.
Says who? There's nothing on the about page (http://www.debian.org/intro/about/) to suggest this.
This is what Lycoris and Xandros are about.
Lycoris no longer exists.
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Bah - make that http://www.debian.org/intro/about
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Basically, if you want Debian with the Anaconda installer, use the Progeny or Compenentized linux. It is Debian Sarge, but with the Anaconda installer slapped on top of it.
Personally, I think Debian's new installer that was released with Sarge is fantastic, especially since you can get a 100mb net install disk to install the base system and go from there. Though one major complaint with Sarge's current installer is that the tasksel has the option for Desktop Environment and it installs both KDE and Gnome. It'd be nice for a newer user if it would show something like KDE; Highly configureable desktop or Gnome; Simplistic style desktop. Or something to that affect. As it is, if I want to do a net install of Sarge on a system, then it apt-gets both KDE and Gnome. Though I think they fixed this in a newer version of Tasksel.
Other than that, the installer is incredibly simple as is. (haven't tried the new graphical frontend yet)
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