Linked by Eugenia Loli on Mon 7th Nov 2005 08:36 UTC
Zeta YellowTAB posted a news item outlining the general direction and features to come in the future in their Zeta operating system: Bluetooth and better ACPI support, move to GCC 4.x, SATA support, changes to the Media Kit and media player, multi-user support and more.
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Interesting
by kaiwai on Mon 7th Nov 2005 08:49 UTC
kaiwai
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2005-07-06

Looks really interesting given the new features they're looking at adding; hopefully the opensource and commercial versions can sit side by side.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Interesting
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 09:10 UTC in reply to "Interesting"
Anonymous Member since:
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Open source version of what?

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Interesting
by kaiwai on Mon 7th Nov 2005 15:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Interesting"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Hey brightspark, use some of that gray matter for a change; http://www.haiku-os.org + http://www.yellowtab.com

Reply Score: 1

one question
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 08:59 UTC
Anonymous
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when ?

Reply Score: 0

MultiUser
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 09:01 UTC
Anonymous
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Wow, finally a multiuser BeOS/Zeta. Excellent Smithers!

Reply Score: 0

RE: MultiUser
by Ronald Vos on Mon 7th Nov 2005 13:17 UTC in reply to "MultiUser"
Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

BTW, is there really demand for multi-user? Since BeOS/Zeta isn't used on public computers, and most home situations hardly warrant multi-user, is there really?

Reply Score: 1

v RE[2]: MultiUser
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 13:30 UTC in reply to "RE: MultiUser"
RE[3]: MultiUser
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 14:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: MultiUser"
Anonymous Member since:
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:-D

Reply Score: 0

impressive
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 7th Nov 2005 09:22 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
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2005-06-29

Really impressive feature list; makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about my favourite little BeOS ;) .

Few things I'd like to see:

- they need to cut on the default set of installed applications. For me, a more experienced and longtime BeOS user, it's easy to uncheck the apps I don't need, but for newcomers to this wonderful platform, it must be bewildering;
- Improve on Firefox. They already did a lot of good work on it, but Firefox on BeOS still sucks ass big time (scrolling is jerky, websites tearing, the app overall is slow). If they have the time to implement all the above listed-- why not make a native frontend to the gecko browsing engine? Is that really that difficult?
- There are still quite a few visual remnants in Zeta. Makes it look crappy;
- In Zeta 1.0/1.1 you cannot use USB keyboards and mice via en external hub; you need to connect them directly which sucks ass;
- And maybe the most important one: GET SOME DECENT INSTANT MESSAGING APPS ON BEOS. BeAim, BeMSN, they all SUCK. I'd say, bet your money on the im_kit. It would be great if yT could invest in im_kit.

Reply Score: 5

USB Hubs and Mice
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 12:45 UTC in reply to "impressive"
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- In Zeta 1.0/1.1 you cannot use USB keyboards and mice via en external hub; you need to connect them directly which sucks ass;

Strange... I use Zeta 1.1 all the time with my mouse connected to my keyboard that has an integrated hub. Maybe only the keyboard has to be plugged in directly?

Reply Score: 0

RE: USB Hubs and Mice
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 7th Nov 2005 12:59 UTC in reply to "USB Hubs and Mice"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Strange... I use Zeta 1.1 all the time with my mouse connected to my keyboard that has an integrated hub. Maybe only the keyboard has to be plugged in directly?

I've just been doing some more checks; it goes for more than just keyboards and mice! I cannot connect my printer or camera via my external hubs either. I guess I'll file a bug report (they have a bugzilla, I believe) or else I'll just IM Bernd about it. It's an annoying bug.

Reply Score: 5

gcc
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 09:25 UTC
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gcc 4.x is a major milestone, and will eventually lead to nice improvements in performance. as for the rest, it seems to be a nice enough roadmap.

Reply Score: 0

RE: gcc
by Ronald Vos on Mon 7th Nov 2005 13:16 UTC in reply to "gcc"
Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

If they're willing to port GCC 4 and donate it to the Haiku source tree, this would be a TREMENDOUS benefit for Haiku! GCC 4.0 isn't finished yet, and so it's advantages are still limited, but with the new touted modular design improvements should be forthcoming. And an updated version is kinda what Zeta/Haiku needed. A PPC port will have an extremely limited audience, but you got to consider low power devices coming up ;)
(now here's to hoping developpers are willing to compile for multiple platforms too...I'm thinking of P.A. Semi's chips)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: gcc
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 17:22 UTC in reply to "RE: gcc"
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haiku didn't care about gcc3.x and probably doesn't care about 4.x ;)
Unfortunetly they want to keep 2.x for r1 no matter what (ie. no matter that there is not much closed source apps worth keeping compatibility for).

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: gcc
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 17:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: gcc"
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Keeping gcc for R1 is also important for being able to test the kits under R5 not just for apps. So switching before R1 will slow down development. Who knows what they will do for R1.1 though...

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: gcc
by StephenBeDoper on Tue 8th Nov 2005 00:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: gcc"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Breaking compatiblity is what Glass Elevator is for.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: gcc
by shadow303 on Tue 8th Nov 2005 16:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: gcc"
shadow303 Member since:
2005-06-29

You can pretty much count on there being an unofficial version of R1 built against a newer gcc. I plan on doing it unless somebody else beats me to it.

Reply Score: 1

Very good
by Emerson on Mon 7th Nov 2005 09:25 UTC
Emerson
Member since:
2005-09-19

I'm glad to hear the news about a true multiuser mode. In fact, it looks like they're addressing a number of issues that have kept me from using Zeta. There's two things I'd really like to see still. First, an editor which supports the opendocument format. Secondly, a working port of gcj and classpath.

Still, even if things aren't to the point where I'd consider switching, it's great to see progress that might be enough for others to head over in that direction.

Reply Score: 1

hm
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 09:33 UTC
Anonymous
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maybe they should try to be "out of the crowd" and have for example ultra high security, by porting some free access control system (eg: www.rsbac.info)
(selinux has a patent and permission is restricted to use in linux. anyway rsbac looks more powerfull)

Reply Score: 0

have they ported Qt?
by CaptainPinko on Mon 7th Nov 2005 09:41 UTC
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Member since:
2005-07-21

that would provide both a powerful widget-set and a whole variety of applications

Reply Score: 1

v Dubious company
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 10:10 UTC
Wow
by michaelveale on Mon 7th Nov 2005 10:12 UTC
michaelveale
Member since:
2005-07-29

Sounds good ^^ (especially multiuser) but it'd be nice to know a date or if it'll be called Zeta R2 or Zeta 2.0?

Reply Score: 1

A better list than before
by w-ber on Mon 7th Nov 2005 10:40 UTC
w-ber
Member since:
2005-08-21

This looks like a more promising list than the one they had in 2003 (or so). Back then, they promised BeOS users all the stars from the sky, namely hardware OpenGL, native Java, big and huge things like that. This list has more realistic goals, which means some of the things listed will actually have a high chance of getting implemented. Very nice.

Reply Score: 4

Firefox
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 11:54 UTC
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Firefox IS NOT developed by YT. They build and package versions from CVS, but the development is done by the BeZilla-team (which aims to support BeOS/Zeta/Haiku). While YT has contributed with versions of Zeta, almost all development is done by BeZilla developers in their spare time.

BeOS and Zeta has a very different design (and also lots of unfixed bugs) compared to Mozilla which tends to be designed for UNIX and Windows, that makes some things harder to do.

Currently the internal event-handling for BeOS is very poor and needs a total rewrite to work for embedding. Note that this is not a problem with BeOS threaded design, but because Mozilla want to use low level signaling while we have high level BLooper's built in already.

We are working as hard as we can to improve all Mozilla-based products for all BeOS-derived OS'es and we do have quite good contact with YT these days.

Feel free to follow our progress here:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/bezilla/

/TQH

Reply Score: 3

yes
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 11:57 UTC
Anonymous
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Yes Firefox is done by the Bezilla team and no one claim to say any different here. It is also written in the ZETA AboutBox that it is a Bezilla project. Where exactly is the problem now?

Reply Score: 0

Re: yes
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 12:05 UTC
Anonymous
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Clarifying for Thom, who said ' Improve on Firefox. They already did a lot of good work on it...'.

So that people know who develops Firefox. Why do you think there is a problem?

Reply Score: 0

RE: Re: yes
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 7th Nov 2005 12:18 UTC in reply to "Re: yes"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Clarifying for Thom, who said ' Improve on Firefox. They already did a lot of good work on it...'.

So that people know who develops Firefox. Why do you think there is a problem?


Of course I know yT isn't doing most of the work on FF for Zeta/BeOS-- it's the BeZilla team doing that (and they're doing a great job).

However, for normal customers, it means fcuk all who made it, they'll blame any deficiencies on the company that made Zeta-- exactly: yT. Yt is responsible for the software supplied with Zeta, and therefor they *can* be held accountable.

Sorry for any misunderstandings.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: yes
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 12:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Re: yes"
Anonymous Member since:
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That's a good point.

Just making sure we are visible, so we can attract people and developers. For the reqular user this might not be so obvious.

/TQH

Reply Score: 0

:D
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 12:14 UTC
Anonymous
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Somewhere in future:))) 2010 ? 2060 ;) ?

Reply Score: 0

RE: :D
by StephenBeDoper on Mon 7th Nov 2005 13:38 UTC in reply to ":D"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

I miss the forward-looking statements disclaimer.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: :D
by mouth on Mon 7th Nov 2005 15:25 UTC in reply to "RE: :D"
mouth Member since:
2005-07-06

From www.beincorporated.com

Safe Harbor Statement

This web page contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or outcomes to differ materially from those contemplated by the forward-looking statements. Factors that could cause or contribute to such differences include, but are not limited to, risks relating to unknown or contingent liabilities, and the statutory process of dissolution. These forward-looking statements are made only as of the date hereof, and Be undertakes no obligation to update or revise the forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise. All forward-looking statements are expressly qualified in their entirety by the "Risk Factors" and other cautionary statements included in the Company's annual, quarterly, and special reports, proxy statements and other public filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.


A little nostalgia for you old BeOS users!

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: :D
by StephenBeDoper on Tue 8th Nov 2005 02:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: :D"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm also partial to sideways-looking statements.

Reply Score: 1

spelling
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 13:11 UTC
Anonymous
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I don't know why Yellowtab can't publish their articles without having them checked for spelling. I've told them many times before.

"we can't guarantee that everything on our to do list will make it into the final realize"

and a PCC port?

Reply Score: 0

RE: spelling
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 21:59 UTC in reply to "spelling"
Anonymous Member since:
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It appears either they corrected the two mistakes you claim existed, or you copied over something invalid yourself.

They now have "release" where it should be, and "PPC" as well.

If you wish to whine about the other use of "realize" consider this meaning (one of many from www.dictionary.com ):
To bring into reality; make real: He finally realized his lifelong ambition to learn how to play the violin.

Reply Score: 0

This is great!
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 13:33 UTC
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I bought Zeta in the summer and the thing holding me back from using it as my main OS is its old compilers.

Reply Score: 0

RE: This is great!
by Mage66 on Mon 7th Nov 2005 15:03 UTC in reply to "This is great!"
Mage66 Member since:
2005-07-11

The main thing holding ME back from using it, is the WAY TOO HIGH price.

I paid less than half of what Zeta wants for BeOS 5.0.

And it still works fine on my Faux BeBox.

I'd invest $50 in Zeta to play with it.

But, over $110.00 is just too much.

I paid $89 for Windows XP Home, and $69.00 for MacOS X Tiger..

Why would I want to pay more for an unfinished OS?

YT can get more cash from QUANTITY sold, instead of trying to wring the last drop of blood from every user.

Reply Score: 1

v RE[2]: This is great!
by smashIt on Mon 7th Nov 2005 20:14 UTC in reply to "RE: This is great!"
RE[2]: This is great!
by rabyte on Tue 8th Nov 2005 15:20 UTC in reply to "RE: This is great!"
rabyte Member since:
2005-06-29

Considering the initial(!) price of WinXP, 99/110$ is a bargain.

Reply Score: 1

c'mon Thom...
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 15:03 UTC
Anonymous
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Your a site administrator. Stop cursing all over the place. You are as bad as us Anonymous posters. Pathetic.

Reply Score: 5

RE: c'mon Thom...
by Anonymous on Tue 8th Nov 2005 00:27 UTC in reply to "c'mon Thom..."
Anonymous Member since:
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I would have to agree. Everybody else can seem to form cogent thoughts without resorting to cursing. I could understand some 14-year-old cursing in an online board because he is asserting a sort of rebelious independence from the power structures in his life that condemn crude language, but it is certainly less than I would expect from the editor of a fairly well-regarded news site. It mostly comes down to this:

1) Run a news site, but then at least make some effort to come off as a journalist.

2) Run a blog where you can curse to your heart's content, but don't pretend to be a journalist.

I don't think it's too much to ask (Unless you are, in fact, 14 years old. I don't know anything about you other than your name.)

Reply Score: 1

give them a break
by 2501 on Mon 7th Nov 2005 15:10 UTC
2501
Member since:
2005-07-14

At leat they are trying to bring it back. Just give them a break. Amiga OS is back, BeOS is back ... It will take some time but they will catch up. I am pretty sure you can save $20 per month until you have enough money to buy it.

Amiga and BeOS are excellent OSs. I love Amiga and now I am considering to get one because I used to run Amiga
years ago. When Beos came out, I bought a copy and it made me so mad when they went out of business. But now I am glad they are back.

If you don't like them, just run XP,Mac or Linux. There are plenty of choices.

-2501

Reply Score: 2

RE: give them a break
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 16:22 UTC in reply to "give them a break"
Anonymous Member since:
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Zeta != BeoS ;) Just ask any devoted BeOS user. yT has pulled some stupid stunts in the past that has given people a very bad taste about the company.

Reply Score: 0

RE: give them a break
by Mage66 on Tue 8th Nov 2005 15:39 UTC in reply to "give them a break"
Mage66 Member since:
2005-07-11

I don't think you get it...

$110.00 for a beta OS isn't worth it.

I paid $40 for BeOS 5.0 Pro, why would I pay three times that for a Beta Version of the same OS that offers no features compelling for me?

My "BeBox" works fine. And I don't need to pay more than I paid for Windows XP Home (which IS a finished OS) or MacOS X (ditto), for an unfinished OS?

Especially just to play with...

I'd rather pay $40 up front, and $10 every 6 months for an update...

I'd go for that...

But $110.00 for an unfinished OS, with no guarantees it will ever be finished, or that YT will still be here in a year, given the track record of similar things in the past....

That's too much money.

Again... Quantity! Not squeezing the last drop of blood out of every customer...

Go for large numbers sold, and go for incremental income over time.

That's Microsoft's success strategy... Any first year business student can see that.

Microsoft sells very few copies of Windows at retail and full price...

Compared to the number of copies they deliver via OEM sales.

Reply Score: 1

re: impressive
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 20:34 UTC
Anonymous
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"- In Zeta 1.0/1.1 you cannot use USB keyboards and mice via en external hub; you need to connect them directly which sucks ass"

uh, what's so terrible about having to plug the devices in the computer directly???

Reply Score: 0

Re[2]: Impressive
by Anonymous on Mon 7th Nov 2005 21:59 UTC
Anonymous
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It's terrible if you run out of ports...

-- tic

Reply Score: 0

re:spelling
by Anonymous on Tue 8th Nov 2005 00:52 UTC
Anonymous
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I copied I only what I read on the site, and it was corrected yes. Yellowtab is well known for making English spelling mistakes. I didn't know I had to prove my 'claim', but next time I will make a screenshot or print a PDF for you.

I am not whining about anything. I am pointing out the fact that they should have had release where realize was, and PPC where PCC was.

And I know quite well what realize means thank you. What is the point of that? Realize just didn't fit into this sentence at all:

"we can't guarantee that everything on our to do list will make it into the final realize"

Reply Score: 0

RE: re:spelling
by StephenBeDoper on Tue 8th Nov 2005 02:31 UTC in reply to "re:spelling"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

That's one thing that has always made me hesitant about YT. I used to work at a small web hosting/design/content company, the largest site we had got about 5k/1mil hits/month. I wrote a fair number of articles for that site and each one went through an editor before being posted - I wouldn't be allowed to post an article where two consecutive sentences started with the same word, much less the sort of mistakes I've come across in postings on yellowtab.com. We have cleaner copy at BeDoper, for Fudd's sake.

Reply Score: 1

RE: c'mon Thom...
by Anonymous on Tue 8th Nov 2005 19:13 UTC
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"Everybody else can seem to form cogent thoughts without resorting to cursing."

Grow up, people. People on the internet occasionally use cusswords. People at Slashdot do it as well most other forums where it's not specifically prohibited. Unless this is your first time on the internet or you spend all your time on Christian bulletin boards, you should be used to it by now.

Reply Score: 0

RE: c'mon Thom...
by Anonymous on Tue 8th Nov 2005 19:23 UTC
Anonymous
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It's not just the words, it's the tone and general behaviour. This has got nothing to do with any squeeky clean religious fanatics. It's a matter of pragmatic psychology, content signal loss, and leadership. Until this gets fixed, OS News is and will always remain a standing joke, and its staff an even bigger joke.

I don't care if OS News sinks without trace, but to see people pull matter of fact stunts with behaviour that they don't understand is a bit irritating, as is what I suspect to be the majority motive, that a few keyboard warriors like to hang loose and look tough, and moaning about other people liking an orderly ship is just their way of clinging onto an abstract power.

Reply Score: 0

Anonymous
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I don't really understand why every say YellowTab is so bad, but Be Inc was so great. I understand Yellowtab has its issues and I am not going to defend them. However, my question is why all this Yellowtab hate and love for Be Inc? Be Inc, through its mis-management KILLED BeOS (I understand all the evil things MS did and how hard it is to go against them in the OS Market), but Be Inc devoted all most all of its resourses to BeIA. Which did NOTHING, it ran on a Compaq Internet App. that never sold, it ran as an interface to a refrigerator that never sold. While BeOS users just waited and waited for an updates OS. Again, YellowTab has its problems, but atleast they are trying to create an OS.

Reply Score: 0