Linked by Xavier Calbet on Thu 10th Nov 2005 19:15 UTC
Linux At the end of October I attended the Alantejo Linux congress and LAN party, which was held in the city of Évora. Évora is a marvelous UNESCO World Heritage city which has from Roman ruins to 18th century buildings, not to mention the superb food. It is well worth the visit if you happen to travel to Portugal. At this meeting a conference was given by José Antonio León Moreno from the "Center of New Initiatives" in Extremadura (Spain) about the Linex project where he stated mildly that the Spanish region of Extremadura is using Linux on the desktop in the PCs used by the public administration civil servants of the region of Extremadura.
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It's based on Debian
by syme on Thu 10th Nov 2005 19:51 UTC
syme
Member since:
2005-07-18

An important/interesting info is missing in the article: Linex seems to be based on Debian, at least Distrowatch says so.

Edited 2005-11-10 20:03

Reply Score: 1

RE: It's based on Debian
by hobgoblin on Thu 10th Nov 2005 20:05 UTC in reply to "It's based on Debian"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

who cares what its based on? (besides distro zealots that is ;) )

the important thing is that they moved what seems to be that they moved from windows to linux over the weekend ;)

now, i have not checked the links provided so my question(s) may have been answerd there but:

was there any systems running special software made specificaly for some task or other running on windows before the switch?

and if so, how are this now handled? a back end windows machine running vnc or similar where the user can access said software over the network?

did the software get replaced beforhand? if so the total change time should include the time used to write said replacements.

to me it sounds like the rollout was basicly this:

a file server where set up on the network. the "techs" where issued boot cds with a basic linux system on them. they would then go around booting the diffrent desktops from this cd and input some basic info. the install would then happen from the server and the cd could be ejected and moved to the next box while the install was running on the others.

it just shows that with good planing one can do fast rollouts. only diff is that to do a similar thing with windows you would most likely have to buy expensive extra software to handle the task, plus the licence costs for each windows desktop.

in comparison, every linux distro out there have a basic system for this kind of install buildt into them.

hell, some of the more popular (like th debian that the parent comment talks about) allwos you to download a very small image and then do a install over the internet, no questions asked.

linux truely is a child of the internet, and the devs and users continualy come up with new ways of using it ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: It's based on Debian
by syme on Thu 10th Nov 2005 20:51 UTC in reply to "RE: It's based on Debian"
syme Member since:
2005-07-18

who cares what its based on? (besides distro zealots that is ;) )

Well, the article is quite interesting but a bit "light" on the technical side...like you said, it's hard to imagine how to update thousands of PCs over the weekend even if it's just a copied image over the network...and I'm sure there was a long testing period before the update.

If it's based on Debian, some other Distro or even 100% self-made is certainly interesting and I would expect this information in such an article...maybe theres a followup on the technical aspects.

it just shows that with good planing one can do fast rollouts. only diff is that to do a similar thing with windows you would most likely have to buy expensive extra software to handle the task, plus the licence costs for each windows desktop.

I'm sure you would get really good conditions on the licences...if you don't have most of the needed know-how inhouse there won't be big differences in costs between Linux and Win. But yeah, planning is everything.

I wonder how many of these big migrations get done without big press coverage...

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: It's based on Debian
by hobgoblin on Thu 10th Nov 2005 21:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: It's based on Debian"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

sure you would get nice conditions on those licences. but can you realy beat free in both cost and conditions (outside of those "redistribute the changes" that you find in the gpl that is)?

as for big migrations that happen without big press? most likely quite a number. mostly in the area of public schools and similar.

in norway there have been a distro made (linux based for those interested) called skolelinux (translated school-linux) thats basicly a 1 image thin client, server and workstation installer. funny thing is that the goverment more or less demand windows as a standard. but more and more schools, feeling the tightening budgets and increased requirements for computers in the classrooms opt for going linux.

thing is that this distro is a nice framework for all kinds of office systems. thin clients in most offices and similar, a couple of servers in the rack, and workstations on the laptops and so on.

Reply Score: 1

RE: It's based on Debian
by gonzalo on Thu 10th Nov 2005 21:33 UTC in reply to "It's based on Debian"
gonzalo Member since:
2005-07-06

It is indeed based on Debian, though there was some announcement a while back that, IIRC, meant future releases would be more of a localization of Ubuntu. As far as I know that's not the case (yet).

Reply Score: 1

renaming programs
by diegocg on Thu 10th Nov 2005 19:59 UTC
diegocg
Member since:
2005-07-08

While many people critized the idea of renaming names, it's a fantastic idea, from a usability POV.

I mean, calling a music player "lennon" would be much easier to remember for users than "amarok"

Reply Score: 1

RE: renaming programs
by renox on Thu 10th Nov 2005 21:01 UTC in reply to "renaming programs"
renox Member since:
2005-07-06

I would vote for 'yellow submarine' myself ;-)
But in both cases, there is a risk of being sued..

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: renaming programs
by ma_d on Fri 11th Nov 2005 00:21 UTC in reply to "RE: renaming programs"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

Not really. But there is a risk of angering developers.

Reply Score: 1

The title is aggravating to me
by Ronald Vos on Thu 10th Nov 2005 20:47 UTC
Ronald Vos
Member since:
2005-07-06

Forget Munich? Why? Because it's a much larger city with a much more complex civil administration's conversion doesn't matter in the face of a small community's overnight conversion?

And how well was it done anyway? Spain isn't renown for it's incredibly efficient government, so I'm wondering how many people discovered they lost valuable work after the weekend of conversion.

Reply Score: 1

RE: The title is aggravating to me
by gonzalo on Thu 10th Nov 2005 21:30 UTC in reply to "The title is aggravating to me"
gonzalo Member since:
2005-07-06

While I agree that "forget Munich" is not a terribly nice title, your doubts aren't too nicely expressed either. Tit for tat, I guess.

Reply Score: 1

RE: The title is aggravating to me
by Sodki on Thu 10th Nov 2005 21:42 UTC in reply to "The title is aggravating to me"
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

Forget Munich? Why? Because it's a much larger city with a much more complex civil administration's conversion doesn't matter in the face of a small community's overnight conversion?

Small community? Extremadura is one of Spain's largest regions.

And how well was it done anyway? Spain isn't renown for it's incredibly efficient government, so I'm wondering how many people discovered they lost valuable work after the weekend of conversion.

I've talked personally to one of the persons responsable for the migration. There was no fuss about the migration, people didn't lose their work and all was good. It was amazing.

By the way, the entire migration, including creating Linex, costed about 30 000 euros; the price Microsoft asked, just for the licences, was 50 000 000 euros. That's a big difference. :-)

Reply Score: 2

hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

"By the way, the entire migration, including creating Linex, costed about 30 000 euros; the price Microsoft asked, just for the licences, was 50 000 000 euros. That's a big difference. :-)"

ok, thats a clear jaw on floor moment!

Reply Score: 2

joelito_pr Member since:
2005-07-07

"By the way, the entire migration, including creating Linex, costed about 30 000 euros; the price Microsoft asked, just for the licences, was 50 000 000 euros. That's a big difference. :-)"

Yeah, take that TCO troll..!

Reply Score: 1

somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

[intentional_sarcarsm] Why haven't they just deployed 20 Apple computers, it would be so much easier? [/intentional_sarcarsm]

Reply Score: 1

Budd Member since:
2005-07-08

Don't be surprised.Dutch always thought Spain is nothing more than a holiday resort where Spaniards are a rara avis. They believe 80% of Extremadura is Dutch and English,so why bother?

Reply Score: 1

RE: The title is aggravating to me
by Poloso on Thu 10th Nov 2005 21:49 UTC in reply to "The title is aggravating to me"
Poloso Member since:
2005-07-06

*Italics*Spain isn't renown for it's incredibly efficient government*Italics*

LOL

Does the concept "Stability and Growth Pact" mean something to you? *

i guess it does not...

The spanish government _has proven to be_ more efficient than others. Period.

BTW, I dont find the title to be offensive, but I agree with you in this: there is no reason to compare Munich with Extremadura.

* http://europa.eu.int/comm/economy_finance/about/activities/sgp/sgp_...

Reply Score: 1

Time for a holiday!
by moleskine on Thu 10th Nov 2005 21:48 UTC
moleskine
Member since:
2005-11-05

Hmmn, Spain or Portugal and escaping a dull grey English November. I'm up for it.

Linex is based on Debian - see
http://www.linex.org/linex2/linex/ingles/linex_tecnico_ing.html

Skolelinux, mentioned by another poster, is also based on Debian.

The City of Munich's migration, if it ever happens, will be another adaptation of Debian, I believe.

Of the top seven distros on www.distrowatch.com four are based on Debian or are Debian. One of them is Ubuntu.

Debian represents an interesting alternative to the Red Hat or SuSE way of doing things. You don't have to buy into the whole bag, including armies of consultants and astronomical support costs. You can roll your own and choose your IT support companies. While this is a no-go for the enterprise, who may anyway be looking for certification to run, say, Oracle, it can be very appealing to government, educational and non-business outfits of all kinds, as well as to specialists who do have the necessary skills, like some ISPs for example.

Debian in its various flavas has a huge user-base, actual and potential, but it doesn't get nearly so many headlines as the commercial outfits.

Reply Score: 2

re: The title is aggravating to me
by javiercero1 on Thu 10th Nov 2005 21:49 UTC
javiercero1
Member since:
2005-11-10

Uninformed bigotry is aggravating to me, if the fact that a small region in Spain beat Munich to the point so be it, but please stop with the condescending tone.

Of course Spain is far from being perfect, but I still think it is important that a region in an industrialised country (and the 10th world economy at that) has managed to convert their desktops in such matter. If your pride was somehow "bothered" by it so be it. In fact Extremadura started this programme a few years ago... it is a interesting example, so please let's just leave it at that.

Reply Score: 2

Spanish guy talking
by beto on Thu 10th Nov 2005 22:32 UTC
beto
Member since:
2005-11-10

Hello, I'm spanish. First of all, I have to say that Extremadura is a big region in the west of Spain, so please, don't compare it with a single city!

On the other hand, Spain is in the top ten economies of the world, so do not say silly things about spanish efficiency.

Another thing to be considered is that Extremadura is the region with less resources in Spain, and for that reason they think about ways of saving money (such as with GPL software).


That's all I had to say.

CU

--beto--

Reply Score: 3

v "huge success" :)
by BlackTiger on Thu 10th Nov 2005 23:45 UTC
Reading...
by gonzalo on Fri 11th Nov 2005 06:22 UTC in reply to ""huge success" :)"
gonzalo Member since:
2005-07-06

You know, I can, to a certain point, understand people not reading TFA on Slashdot. After all you have to make the incredible effort of going to another site.

But as I say I can understand it to some extent.

Your comment, on the other hand, seems... well, stupid. Yeah, I can't say it any other way, sorry.

From TFA: In total they now have some 80000 desktop PCs running Linux.

Reply Score: 2

re(2): The title is aggravating to me
by Ronald Vos on Fri 11th Nov 2005 00:53 UTC
Ronald Vos
Member since:
2005-07-06

Of course Spain is far from being perfect, but I still think it is important that a region in an industrialised country (and the 10th world economy at that) has managed to convert their desktops in such matter. If your pride was somehow "bothered" by it so be it. In fact Extremadura started this programme a few years ago... it is a interesting example, so please let's just leave it at that.

Ehh, pride in what exactly?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: The title is aggravating to me
by Morty on Fri 11th Nov 2005 01:01 UTC
Morty
Member since:
2005-07-06

"By the way, the entire migration, including creating Linex, costed about 30 000 euros; the price Microsoft asked, just for the licences, was 50 000 000 euros. That's a big difference. :-)"

Yeah, take that TCO troll..!


Exactly, and I'm guessing you can get rather decent technical support for the remaining 49 970 000 euros :-)

Reply Score: 1

Évora
by Hugo on Fri 11th Nov 2005 21:12 UTC
Hugo
Member since:
2005-07-06

Wow!! my hometown on osnews.com...

Reply Score: 1