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One thing you can do is increase you taskbar size to at least 38 pixels, that will cause the taskbar to double stack the window buttons giving you a lot more space.

or reduce it to look like default windows bar. which gives more screen space, i do that

Be adventurous, move the panel to the top of the screen, set it to auto-hide, remove the taskbar from the panel, and configure a separate, external taskba at the bottom of the screen.

That way, the panel becomes nothing more than a clock/systray holder and quick launch bar for program icons.

And the taskbar at the bottom of the screen can hold a lot more buttons, even when the size is listed as small.

Makes life so much simpler. IMO/IME, of course.

Something like this might also work (it is what you suggest, but with bottom and top reversed)...

ftp://hatvani.unideb.hu/pub/personal/screenshots/mykde343/kdedeskt...

If the only thing you can complain about KDE is that some programs start with a 'k', then I think KDE, as a project, succeeded.

Let me add that the 'k' is not a bad letter, nor it is that inflated in everyday life (think 'x'!). The pun with 'key' is nice, too.
And sometimes apps just _end_ with a 'k', look amarok!
I think that by seeing a 'k' app you can recognize a KDE app, that's not bad is it? This may trick you sometimes, but it usually helps.

Anyway, as much as this 'k-habit' may disturb you, ii's still much better than most of the Super Nintendo games, which started with a Super: _that_ was annoying.

The question is, not what prefix or name to use, the question is, should ordinary users need to know the names of the applications. A more task oriented interface would probably be easier to learn for new users.

I'd certainly leave this to Gnome, they're quite good at this. Please don't give me a "music player" link.

You mean like "SuperKaramba"?

Yes, how stupid of them. Everybody knows that programs have to be prefixed by "MS" to be successful:-)

I don't mind the "K" when it's used as a preffix to an actual word like "KOffice", "KWord" etc.

When they integrate it into the word itself, like in "Kivio" or "Konqueror", that IMHO is ugly.

"I don't mind the "K" when it's used as a preffix to an actual word like "KOffice", "KWord" etc.

When they integrate it into the word itself, like in "Kivio" or "Konqueror", that IMHO is ugly."

I'll second that.

I agree
go on

No. YAST is terrible, please don't suggest this.

I am curious, how is YAST "terrible"? Please elaborate.

Can you name something easier to use than Yast?

You know as well as I do that if YAST were integrated it would be refined and would feel much more natural.(which is part of why I'd like to see it integrated)

If you can think of something else, post it.

I simply like the fact it eliminates the need to do things manually, and it's a centrally managed place to do things. Convenient.

Please clarify what you mean by integrating YAST in KDE? Novell when compiling KDE releases for SUSE Linux already allow the "one-click-install" of binary packages with the extension ".rpm". There is also "YAST2 Modules" listed in the KDE Control Center which still require an administrator/root password for security to access YAST.

Edited 2005-11-29 17:18

--------Please clarify what you mean by integrating YAST in KDE?----------

It's very simple. YAST is mainly(if only) a part of SuSE linux. If it were integrated into KDE, YAST would be in every single distribution that uses KDE.

(and if it were integrated, it would no longer be called YAST, but rather more than likely a part of the control center, or perhaps a part of a new "root panel")

"major" means new features (3.4 -> 3.5)
"minor" means only bugfixes (3.4.2 -> 3.4.3)
"radical" means a lot of juicy things (3.5 -> 4.0)

Another thing to remember is that KDE versions are tied to the version of QT. The first number reflects the version of QT (i.e. KDE 3.4.2 uses QT3). The second and third digits reflect the version of KDE using that version of QT. Until today, the current version was 3.4.3. Had this been a minor release, it would have been 3.4.4. Since it was a major update, but still based on QT3, it was called 3.5.0.

The version based on QT4 will be 4.0.0. Even if it had no new features (it will) other than being ported to QT4, it would still be called 4.0.0 due to the change in QT version.

HTH,

John

PS. On a conference call while typing this, and didn't realise others posted this information before me.

Oops. :-)

Edited 2005-11-29 15:50

because the X number in X.Y is in sync with the QT release (the GUI toolkit used), you in..
so .Y releases are as major, in terms of KDE features. You lill troll.

"Haven't used Linux in over three years, after a trial, and haven't seen anything to pull me back."

Honestly if you haven't tried Linux for over 3 years you aren't terribly qualified to give advice, because Linux in the last 3 or 4 years has changed *absolutely* beyond recognition.

It could be 2007, but I imagine they're going to try and get it out the door faster than that. However a lot of distros that place emphasis on stability (such as Debian, or the Enterprise variants of RedHat and SuSE) won't switch to 4.0 immediately after it comes out. Therefore 3.5 may have to do while those distros wait for their upgrade cycle to come around.

maybe the default suggested here is cancel and not ok ? ;p

How could this be a usability issue ? Are you able to assure that having buttons with different size is one ? I just think that buttons should have a coherent margin with the text they are labelled with, and "OK" takes less space than "Cancel". Where is the problem then ?

You aren't disapointed, you are simply trolling.

Take one screenshot, act as if one botton being smaller in width (not in hight, you can't even look right)than an other button is a usability nightmare (though of course it isn't) and then proceed to troll this thread.

Nice...

The sreenshot is in the Visual Guide, I didn't take it, you go take a look it is the default.

And since when expressing something you are not agree with is is trolling? how old are you? 12?.

Order button? who is talking about GNOME? cut the paranoia.

"The sreenshot is in the Visual Guide, I didn't take it, you go take a look it is the default."
Huh, I didn't even comment on this issue, so what's your point?

"And since when expressing something you are not agree with is is trolling? how old are you? 12?."
Nope, I didn't say that expressing something with which I don't agree is trolling, I said that you are trolling and I even wrote why I am of this oppinion.

"Order button? who is talking about GNOME? cut the paranoia."
Huh?

I think his point is you're attacking an entire Desktop Environment based upon one screenshot of one dialogue.

If you were to claim (and attempt to back up) how the 'ok' being smaller than the 'configure' and 'cancel' buttons is a usability issue, then you are welcome to.

I would, however, caution you to take a LOOK at the OS first. It's clear you haven't used KDE 3.4, for all you know this 'issue' has been fixed in 3.5.

TRY using it. Burn a Klax (the kde livecd) or similar livecd, and just TRY IT. Bring up some dialogues, and see if it actually presents any sort of issue for you.

If this is a consistent issue, get some other POV's. Open Source is about community. If you want to build some awareness of this 'issue' then perhaps you should use KDE 3.5 for a week or two as best you can, write an article clearly and honestly detailing the pros and cons of your experience, and send it to Thom?

But you probably won't. Because you don't actually care.Use another DE/WM if it strikes your fancy. You just don't like KDE, or something that small honestly bothers you that much? That's why we call you a troll. Because you just sit under the bridge being ugly (not meant as a literal attack) attacking things as you see fit without backing yourself up (a single dialogue screenshot is NOT gonna work).

Am I wrong? Prove it.

Can you tell me why is this dialog different? ain't supposed to be inhered from a class already made instead of put it by the developer him self? aid that a failure in guidelines´or a misstake of the developer? where is the quality control? a simple button can make the project look really bad, and take a look to the rest of the buttons the OK is still smaller in width.

Im not atacking but you abviously feel angry because I making note that embarassing "bug".

Numerous people have different opinions and responses. I never claimed to know. Heck, I never even noticed.

Perhaps it is a bug.

If so, then report it. I'm not angry that you're pointing out what you deem to be a bug. I'm angry that you're making such a huge deal of it AND judging an entire desktop environment on something like that.

It's the proverbial judging a book by it's cover. Yes, you have a right to not use KDE because of that, or to even hate it with every ounce of your being (not that I think you do). I don't think that gives you license however to judge it. KDE is much more than the ok button being too small, and I was angry that it seemed you couldn't see that.

Again, I suggest people just TRY it before they make a judgement. Maybe there's a purpose, maybe not. I'll check when I get to my PCLOS box. Until then, I can only say that it doesn't matter if it's a bug or design decision, because that's such a tiny part of the entire structure that makes KDE.

I have to say if that dialogue, or dialogues in general, are the biggest issue...then KDE is doing damn well.

Actually, it IS smaller in height. But that sounds like a bug or a mistake rather than a useability issue. I mean, what would be the solution? Should every button be as big as the maximum amount of content it could possibly ever contain then? Anyway, I am not a UI designer, but would like to know what the issue/rule behind this is...

Surely usability guidelines would state that the expected most often used response should be the most prominent and the easiest to click on.

The problem is that the OK button is the default one, the one you generally want to press. Making it the smallest button in the dialog is inane.

Im very dissapointed wit KDE usuability, why can't they just get it? take a look to this picture:

Ok that looks like a bug to me.
But seriously, does a button that is a tiny bit smaller than the other really affect useability?

I have far more probelms when I try and use it on a 800 x 600 resolution (I got an old laptop that doesn't go higher). A lot of the config stuff doesnt fit on the screen then.

Otherwise I find it pretty good.....

Well, the way he said it was not very nice, but he has a valid point. The OK Button has a smaller _height_ than the others. - Go look at it with a magnifier.
It does not look very nice indeed, but i would not call this a real usability issue. I'm sure there are other things which should be fixed earlier. If this is the only usability problem KDE has, then they are on a very good way! :-)

It doesn't have a smaller height, it has a (in this case nearly invisible) frame around it because it is selected.

I would post a screenshot with the default color theme (the 3.4 default, don't know if they changed it for 3.5) but unfortunatly I currently can access KDE only via NX and that ruins screenshots.

Whats worse is the wording in the window:

A new medium has been detected. What do you want to do?

Then further down, above the fancy icons that your eyes naturally fall on next, you eventually see the words:

Medium Type: Audio CD

Why??!! The words are useless. Why not just have the dialog with no extensive wording. You already have an icon of an audio CD, why not just have the words "Audio CD" to the right of the icon, then the list of actions, then the "always do this" option, then the buttons (all the same size...)

There are numerous areas like this where KDE could be better thought out. Its getting much better though

it couldn't get much worse than it was in 3.4 . the kde devs seem to think that the way forward is to add yet more features and bloat, adding further to kde's innumerable problems

You seem like you are just trolling. There weren't many features added in 3.4 and they had already been discussing how they could improve the DE to remove the clutter.

The whole arguement about the qt licence is lame. Its been mentioned lots of times that its dual licenced so whats wrong with that. If you want to develop free software you can use it for free, if you want to sell your software, pay a licence for it.

Carry on trolling whilst the KDE devs continue doing a good job with the support of the community behind them.

"There weren't many features added in 3.4 and they had already been discussing how they could improve the DE to remove the clutter."

even you admit it.

<A new medium has been detected. What do you want to do? >

Oh, just talk to grandma as usual....

I think KDE is doing fine in the usability department if you had to dig that up ))

I don't think the vast majority of the users would care if those buttons were the same size or not. Besides, "configure" is longer than "ok", how is that sound for an explanation?

My point: Its a freaking button, with OK in the middle and a green checkmark! Relative to the seriousness of the "issue", your remarks (I'm disappointed in KDE usability, when are you going to learn?) seems to be a bit histerical. Cool it.

"Im very dissapointed wit KDE usuability, why can't they just get it? take a look to this picture:

http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=devicepopup7ye.png

When are you going to learn?"

Let GNOME/GTK+ show how it's properly done

http://suseux.commscentral.net:8000/insert-disk.png

:-)

Edited 2005-11-29 17:38

>> Let GNOME/GTK+ show how it's properly done

Time for a KDE feature request: Settings for the dialog button size: a) constant width b) width matching individual button text

I have moved from KDE to Gnome because same as this reason. Ugly User interface in KDE. Still not improved. I like eye candy well organized look and feel. See the MacOSX and WindowsXP interfaces GUI. I don’t care much functionality and stability inserted in to an ugly bin!

Why does GNOME even try to have VFS, when it effectively does not work for a damn? I mean seriously, SFTP browsing and, in general, networked browsing in Nautilus or the GTK+ file selector is problem-ridden and buggy. It is funny that GNOME has had this VFS, including the SFTP, for over two years but that throughout that time I have yet to see it work well. Only one in ten attempts to use it are actually successful.

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132474
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132476
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136014

Why should I really care about some small UI inconsistencies and other problems in KDE when complementing features in GNOME are effectively useless?

I think you missed the fundamental issue here. Before making the statement as some earlier poster did about GNOME's apparent ui-usability wonders, consider that these supposedly polished interfaces found in GNOME often mask a fundamentally rotten corpus of code underneath. In other words, does it really matter how nice GNOME looks if the code powering it is a pile of junk? Basically this is a question of how well the two pieces of software can be compared. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd certainly prefer to use KDE which has a solid core over something superficially beautiful but moldy underneath.

why don't you take your bullshit somewhere else? You might make some progress within the brotherhood of mutual admiration known as GNOME, but here you are laughable.

I don't think that's how KDE's integration is working....
Windows integration of IE is the same as Gnome's integration of gtkhtml, kde's of khtml, Mac's probably of khtml, and etc.

That sort of integration really isn't integration at all...

The integration in KDE is things like making D&D work. Things like dragging a link from konq to konq (local) just copies the file there (actually it asks if you want to copy, move, or link; don't ask me how you can move it). If you drag it to konsole, it downloads the file and dumps it to stdin!
Or things like location handlers in konq/kde. I can open things via sftp in konq, open them into any kde app, edit, and when I click save it saves it to the remote store.
If you use a non-kde app this way, it seems to save it properly when you close the program and just edits the local tmp file until then.

This is the sort of integration KDE is doing.
And it's really great... It's a nice level of polish.

KDE was terrible for a while (3.2, 3.3), but 3.4 has been really stable and useful.

Have you ever actually used KDE? It is a lot more stable than your accusations claim.

Have you ever seen what happens in GNOME when gnome-settings-daemon or gconf dies? They die quietly, and everything--yes, literally every GNOME-based thing--stops working correctly, leaving you the user completely clueless unless you have dealt with similar problems before.

here we go again. its strange how gnome applications are considerably more stable.

Come again?

one wonders why the average user appears to find the desktop so much more usable than kde, and why complaints of kde applications crashing(or is it krashing?) are so commonplace.

Right.......

"I think you missed the fundamental issue here. Before making the statement as some earlier poster did about GNOME's apparent ui-usability wonders, consider that these supposedly polished interfaces found in GNOME often mask a fundamentally rotten corpus of code underneath. In other words, does it really matter how nice GNOME looks if the code powering it is a pile of junk? Basically this is a question of how well the two pieces of software can be compared. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd certainly prefer to use KDE which has a solid core over something superficially beautiful but moldy underneath."


Strangely enough, I feel the complete opposite. I am not a developer, so my persepctive is different. In the long-term, KDE will probably prove better as it has the foundations right but in the meantime, I need something with a useable, logical and coherent interface. Therefore, I will stick with GNOME until KDE develops a much better end-user experience.

Most people in position to decide what desktop environmnent to use in their offices have no technical training. They will judge the system from what they can see, not from the technical benefits of qt or kde APIs. Apperance is important.

As long as it works and looks nice they are satisfied, and today Gnome works, even though not as good as KDE. (If you want an example just look at kio-slaves vs gnome-vfs.)

Huh? Why do you link to resolved bugs?

The GNOME developers may have officially closed these bugs in bugzilla, but similar issues stemming from these same problems still exist, particularly relating to the authentication dialogs that disappear and reappear without warning.

Far more important is that the buttons are called OK and Cancel, so the average user has no idea what will happen when they click them.

Far more important is that the buttons are called OK and Cancel, so the average user has no idea what will happen when they click them.

That's a joke, right? I know we can't overestimate the "average user", but people aren't THAT stupid.

Probably the first rule of usability is to accept that users need things to be easier, instead of just telling them that they're stupid.

If you've never seen a user pausing doubtfully when confronted with OK and Cancel buttons then you've never really observed users.

How is KDE4 becoming an urban legend; the last time there was talk about KDE4, the KDE developers seemed to be seeing it as the perfect opportunity to introduce some radical redesigns coupled with liberal amounts of slash and burn in reference to culling off parts of KDE.

I'm sure KDE4 is still in their minds, but they want to make sure if it is going to be radical and break a few things along the way, that they do as many changes as possible as to make the breakages worth while in the end.

//Rant
It's never a very good idea to just run off attacking something with no good reason, with absolutely no respect for anybody or anything besides yourself. After reading your comment, all I can say is you are the reason anonymous posting was disabled for so long, and posts like yours will likely bring that about again.
//Rant

To give your post the response it doesn't deserve (you don't sound very smart if you can't spell and/or use punctuation properly) let me just say that KDE wouldn't be nearly as popular if it's (userbility?) usability was nearly as atrocious as you claim. What's your excuse for that? People being "locKed" in? A conspiracy against your *insert dm/wm/os here* of choice, which is truly the best and ONLY right way of doing things.

If you can't talk to the adults, go back to the sandbox

Edit:
I'm sorry, that was childish as well. I just got caught up in my anger, since Osnews is a place I visit several times a day, and I see it being overwhelmed by trolls and zealots that can't just discuss something basic. So, I apologize.

Edited 2005-11-29 16:47

"you don't sound very smart if you can't spell and/or use punctuation properly"

i made 1 mistake and thats whats known as a typo. it says NOTHING about a persons ability to spell correctly or use punctuation. does your above inane statement say it all about the level of your insight, comprehension, and intellect?

I never said you weren't smart, only that your use of language makes it SOUND like you aren't very smart.I have no idea how smart you are. I don't care. Plenty of smart people have no common sense.

In other words, your intellect (as well as your post) will be judged based upon spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

The main point of my response was your content - hello? What are you trying to say? "KDE SUCKS cuz I sed so i is a l33t k|d!!!"

If you spout off nonsense with nothing to back it up based upon pure emotion and a lack of open-mindedness attempting just to throw your agenda around without any evidence, examples of value, or study then you are A TROLL.

Nobody will take you seriously. I apologized for what I said whn I attacked you personally.

BTW, inane means without signifigance, meaning or point. I certainly had a point: your post has no value if you just spout nonsense because you don't like something.

Was it signifigant? Depends. I think you needed a response. Someone needs to let you know 90% of how you're recieved is not what you're saying - it's how you're saying it.

Was it meaningful? Well, attacking you wasn't. I think it's important for lots of trolls to sit down and think about WHY they're being labeled as such.

Your entire first post is the definition of inane.

"i made 1 mistake and thats whats known as a typo. it says NOTHING about a persons ability to spell correctly or use punctuation. does your above inane statement say it all about the level of your insight, comprehension, and intellect?"

Sometimes you just have to laugh at such people. Surely you were taught to use capitals after full stops, my friend? There is also the need to use apostraphes in examples such as "thats whats" and "persons ability" as well.

Not unless you're trying to show ownership. It's 'apostrophes'

Do you want me to attempt a diagram of your first sentence? Because I don't know if you could pay me enough to try.

If somebody has issues with the language, that's one thing and I can deal with that. But for you, Anonymous, of all people to accuse someone of using incorrect punctuation and gramma is truly sad.

This is just as inane as your first post where you fired off a meaningless rant about how much Kde SuX0rz.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Find a bridge, Troll.

Edited 2005-11-30 01:02

The real problem is that the most commonly used button (OK) is the smallest button in the dialog. The expectation is that more commonly used buttons are the most accessible, which is not the case in the dialog. Also, the fact that the OK button is in the middle does make it a bit harder to find/target.

The point is valid. Just don't sit around and moan about it on OSNews. File a bugreport at the KDE project. KDE devs have more things to do than trawl tech sites to gather the occasional valid complaints.

The point is valid. Just don't sit around and moan about it on OSNews. File a bugreport at the KDE project. KDE devs have more things to do than trawl tech sites to gather the occasional valid complaints.

Yu can be sure than 90% of KDE developers will read it here.

They do say it passes the Acid 2 test, and it does, sort of. If you scroll up or down after running the test, the smily face breaks a tiny bit. An example is here: http://www.ianchristie.info

The first picture is after scrolling, the second is what you get when you run the test, but don't scroll.

I have to say, so far I haven't seen much different with 3.5 over 3.4, or at least nothing that jumped out at me. One big thing though is 3.5 seems to be running better than 3.4 on Ubuntu Breezy.

> They do say it passes the Acid 2 test, and it does,
> sort of. If you scroll up or down after running the
> test, the smily face breaks a tiny bit.

It *has* to break if you scroll!

See http://www.webstandards.org/act/acid2/guide.html :
"If the Acid2 page is scrolled, the scalp will stay fixed in place, becoming unstuck from the rest of the face, which will scroll"

If it breaks the "right" way I cannot say, though. :-)

Cool, I wasn't aware of that. Even if that was a problem and not how it was supposed to work, I'd stick with KDE. So far 3.5 is faster and smoother even with the Eyecandy cranked up. 3.4 used to be jerky with transparent panels and translucent menus, 3.5 is smooth on the same machine.

Right, it seems KDE (or maybe QT?) shrinks the button that's in focus, perhaps to indicate it's almost being pushed, as though your finger's already on the button.

Then why is not hapennig with other dialogs?

>> Then why is not hapennig with other dialogs?

It does. As an example, open up Kate with a new file, type anything you like, then go to close Kate. The "Save Selected", "Do Not Save", and"Abort Closing" buttons shrink in height as they become active.

By the way, there is more to usability than button widths that don't appeal to your sensibility. Where are the alternative's to KDE's network transparency (fish, etc)?

Edited 2005-11-29 17:50

The this usuability issue is general and not independent of the dialog, shame on you KDE.

>> shame on you KDE.

Time for you to get your coding gloves on before you make such a judgement. Sorry to other OSNews forumers for having entertained this troll.

Edited 2005-11-29 17:56

They're trying to make 2 points clear to you:

1. If that is the biggest problem with KDE (it isn't) then KDE is miles better than any competitor out there today.

2. You consider making the OK button small a problem, presumably because it draws less attention. However, highlighting that button is meant to do that instead, so many people don't see any problem at all. This point is debateable - unless you can point me to some research that shows button size is more important than button highlighting, I'm going to continue thinking of this as a matter of opinion and nothing more.

I'd agree that having the configure button where it is isn't good, but that's still a relatively minor complaint. Certainly nothing to cause me to hate all of KDE.

>> First some Troll tells me I don't judge for a simple
>> dialog then other tells me that is general and is how
>> is done, so Im not the problem here, the problemm is
>> the bunch of 12 years old KDE users who can't stand
>> KDE gets critics and with probes.

I took your attack on a single dialog to suggest it was an irregularity. It isn't. It would be a problem if it was either an irregularity or counter-intuitive to how a GUI should work. It isn't an irregularity, and since the shrinking represents a button about to be pressed then there isn't an issue here. All that's left is the width of the buttons. That's largely a matter of personal prefererence whether button widths should be equal or not.

Now, let's say that KDE button formatting IS incorrect (and by no means do I think it is), then is that enough to judge a desktop? Saying that 'if this is the case then it doesn't bode well', to paraphrase you, isn't a case in its own.

>> Can' stand my point of view? don't read it.

I can stand it. I'm just countering it with my point of view. Is that okay with you?

It's actually dependend on the theme being used.

Took me a long time of playing around before I noticed this. This is not a KDE issue, nor a QT issue, but a theme issue.

For instance, the default theme (plastik) places a little highlight around the active button. My theme (baghira) causes the active button to glow with a nice throbbing blue colour. Other themes treat this in other ways.

If you want to hound anybody about this, than hound the Plastik theme devs, for not making it more obvious what's going on.

Or blame the one who make it the default w/o note the terrible usuability issues it has.

> terrible usuability issues

You're so funny!

Yuske! Is that you?

Why?

This isn't a competition in the usual sense.

To follow your reasoning Windows is "prevailing" in the "war" for the "desktop"

Companies can prevail against one another. Ideas can be more popular than others. That doesn't mean the minority loses or mus DIE. If so, XFCE is screwed already. Fluxbox...well, I feel bad for THOSE USERS.

If every major distro dumps KDE, so what? I'll apt-get it. Oooooh, the companies aren't using it! How can KDE live without Suse and Red Hat?! (I ignored Ubuntu given the recent Kubuntu news).

Linux was fine before these were multimillion dollar companies.

Open Source needs a community of committed and active developers. Everything else is just fluff.

>>Last one I tried was 2.0. I'm pondering trying the latest which I think is 2.6

Gnome 2.0 was released almost 3 years ago. Gnome 2.12 is the latest release. Dude I'm a KDE user and even I'm not as misinformed as you.

>>1) this was a response to a bug report (feature request) it autohides and does not take up so much space that it takes away from your browsing experience.. I didn't even notice it at first.

Your getting a pop-up telling you it blocked a pop-up and you don't think that there is something wrong with that? Its very noticable and annoying for me.

>>2) Not sure, not found a use for it yet. however it's not something I look at so it really doesn't bother me 1 bit and I can't see how it does you. How many times do you go into the properties of a file?

I check file properties alot and I also change the icons for my launchers on the kicker, so do many people. You never even addressed the fact that its broken; that dosent work with all files that show this tab.

>>3) your kidding me right?.. it's far nicer than a simple menu, provides a search functionality for easier location of applets, shows the description of the applet which the menus did not.

No, now the menu is even more cluttered, the applications are shown the old, nicer way and the applets are in the search. I have to keep scrolling to find the applet I want. It was easier in KDE 3.4.

>>4) media detection thing again was a response to a feature request and does not look worse than the windows one. it looks exactly like the windows one. My only response to this is.. who the hell cares!? disable it and quit complaining.

I care, as do many others. I see your fine just telling me to disable this, tweak that, yak yak yak. KDE is supposed to be focusing on usuability, I shouldnt have to change stupid things. Why don't you just tell people to use Mac OSX instead.

I think it looks worse than Windows XP.
http://www.winxptutor.com/images/rip1.JPG
http://www.kde.org/announcements/visual_guide_images-3.5/device-pop...

At the very least I can say, KDE devs stop copying Windows!

>>if you seriously are thinking about moving to another WM just because of these 4 points...

No, I'm just really get sick of tweaking KDE more and more with every release just to make it usable for me.

>>not a popup.. a passive notification which auto closes/hides.

How is it passive if it pops up right infront of my content? I'm trying to read a webpage and it gets in my way! The auto hide/close is irrevlant, it disturbs my work.

>>welcome to the minority then. No windows user complained when their CDs became easier to get a hold of.

I'm not complaining about the Project Utopia Stack, the Gnome people did a decent job at their intergration. Why can't the KDE people make it less stupid? The Gnome people even have a better way of configuring it, that Gnome volume manager thing that Madnrake uses in their KDE desktop.

>>Why don't I go tell people to use MacOSX ? .. because I'd rather use KDE than MacOSX...

I made that comment as a rebuttal to your commment about me tweaking KDE. Most people don't want to spend forever tweaking their desktop, they just want it to work. What about them?

I use KDE because of the great apps but I'm really getting tired of the direction KDE is heading.