Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 14th Dec 2005 14:06 UTC
KDE "As the release of KDE 3.5 draws near [Ed.: article probably written before the release], work is already underway at the Appeal project to integrate 3.5's major changes into the 4.0 series. Subprojects beneath Appeal's umbrella target simplified usability and progressive adjustments to the graphical user interface: The Tenor and Plasma projects will add functionality, while Oxygen and Coolness will enhance visual freshness."
Order by: Score:
v Tenor vs Beagle
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 14:44 UTC
KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 14:55 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

A very good thing about KDE 3.5 is that windows now properly maximise, in "the Windows way" so to say, without any border, really filling the whole screen: not a major feature, but interesting (not many have talked about it) and showing more attention to detail.

KDE 4 will be great, if things continue improving this way.

It would also be good if KDE became, at the same time, more OS X- and GNOME-like: reciprocally taking the best features from each environment is a good thing, IMHO, and could maybe also lead to some more unification in the future (so ending the KDE vs. GNOME flamewars).

BTW, the name "Oxygen" reminds me of the musician Jean Michel Jarre's great success "Oxygene", of some decades ago: again, a very good sign... :-)

Reply Score: 3

RE: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 15:21 UTC in reply to "KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

"A very good thing about KDE 3.5 is that windows now properly maximise, in "the Windows way" so to say, without any border, really filling the whole screen: not a major feature, but interesting (not many have talked about it) and showing more attention to detail."

Kcontrol->window behaviour-> Movement tab:
uncheck allow moving and reshaping maximized windows

(this is like i suppose it says in english version)

My wish:

i'd like to see a button in kcontrol that says "store whole configuration", because many times i have messed the config of the desktop and it's boring to start reconfiguring everything again (i know i can back up ~/.kde but i only want to save configuration setting and not kmail storage or other things)

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows
by CrimsonScythe on Wed 14th Dec 2005 15:34 UTC in reply to "RE: KDE 3.5 windows"
CrimsonScythe Member since:
2005-07-10

i'd like to see a button in kcontrol that says "store whole configuration", because many times i have messed the config of the desktop and it's boring to start reconfiguring everything again (i know i can back up ~/.kde but i only want to save configuration setting and not kmail storage or other things)

This sounds a lot like some sort of migration utility. It would indeed be nice to have easy access to such a feature, so that we could not only back up the settings, but also distribute or migrate to other computers. It doesn't sound like it should be that hard to implement, since the KDE settings are all in ~/.kde, but then again, I could be displaying my ignorance on this matter.

Or maybe it should be the job of a backup utility of some sort? (Configured via a KControl page with easy to select options like "Settings", "Bookmarks", "Documents", "Mail", "Select Folder", etc.)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 16:18 UTC in reply to "RE: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

"Kcontrol->window behaviour-> Movement tab:
uncheck allow moving and reshaping maximized windows"

Ah, thanks: good to know. BTW, I tried this "full maximising" feature (which I find excellent) on some distributions: sadly, SUSE 10's new window decoration (one of the most beautiful) becomes a little too "distorted" in this mode, mainly with poorly aligned window menu icon, chameleon icon and title bar text. Maybe they'll change this behaviour with some patch, later on, who knows...

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows
by cr8dle2grave on Wed 14th Dec 2005 17:19 UTC in reply to "RE: KDE 3.5 windows"
cr8dle2grave Member since:
2005-07-11

Try kiosktool, which is the administrative interface for the KDE's kiosk framework. Basically it allows you to create and distribute configuration profiles (everything which can be accessed from kcontrol plus a few more things) and assign them based on user and group policies.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows
by anda_skoa on Wed 14th Dec 2005 17:37 UTC in reply to "RE: KDE 3.5 windows"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

i know i can back up ~/.kde but i only want to save configuration setting and not kmail storage or other things

Maybe just backing up ~/.kde/share/config?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Kroc on Wed 14th Dec 2005 23:45 UTC in reply to "RE: KDE 3.5 windows"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Kcontrol->window behaviour-> Movement tab:
uncheck allow moving and reshaping maximized windows


Why must there be an option for everything. This is the problem with KDE. O____<

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 23:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

Because there's people like me who really want that option. Bad enough that KDE can't scroll more than 12 lines at a time by mouse wheel; If it also couldn't make maximized windows borderless, it'd be dead to me.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Kroc on Thu 15th Dec 2005 00:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

If the defaults are not good enough for 90% of users, the defaults are flawed.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Wrawrat on Thu 15th Dec 2005 00:56 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Wrawrat Member since:
2005-06-30

True enough, but I believe that not having the possibility of changing something is also a flaw since everybody is difference and got its own preferences.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Mediocre Sarcasm Man on Thu 15th Dec 2005 01:12 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Mediocre Sarcasm Man Member since:
2005-07-06

Do you think 90% of the users of any program/WM/DM/OS are using the same preferences?

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Rowan Lewis on Thu 15th Dec 2005 01:19 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Rowan Lewis Member since:
2005-10-13

They would be using many of the same settings, perhaps 50% of the settings are never changed by those 90%.

But still, if one could prove that 90% of users hated the default settings, then perhaps they should change. As I'm sure everyone knows, its hard to poll every user.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Thu 15th Dec 2005 01:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

"Why must there be an option for everything. This is the problem with KDE. O____<"

just pretend that you never knew about it.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Thu 15th Dec 2005 08:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

Please explain, how does that in anyway hinder your usage of KDE?

I can´t see the problem.
A user wants something he can change it, if a another user is happy the way it is, he don´t have to change it.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Thu 15th Dec 2005 22:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

Kcontrol->window behaviour-> Movement tab:
uncheck allow moving and reshaping maximized windows

Why must there be an option for everything. This is the problem with KDE.


Because the GP thinks that feature is great and necessary while I think it's the most annoying POS ever developed. It makes working with Gimp or similar tools a PITA because instead of maximising and then making minor adjustments to a window you first have to move it in a corner and then drag it larger.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 17:21 UTC in reply to "KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

While we are on the subject of window maximization states, I'm worried that the big window managers (kwin, Metacity, etc) are all going in the wrong direction when if comes to window management. At the moment, they are great if you are runing a standard 4:3 monitor or dual heads, but these days more and more monitors are coming out with widescreen aspect ratios. As most information is displayed vertically, rather than horizontally, maximizing a window to a 16:9 ratio wont be useful and users will have to manually adjust windows so that many different windows aren't overlapping each other. I don't see any window managers other than OS X dealing with this and I'm worried no one in open source will until MS Windows comes up with something nice to copy.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows
by anda_skoa on Wed 14th Dec 2005 17:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

You could just maximize vertically. By default middle mouse button on maximize button, but you can change that to left mouse button if you need it more often than full maximize.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: KDE 3.5 windows
by CrimsonScythe on Thu 15th Dec 2005 05:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows"
CrimsonScythe Member since:
2005-07-10

Excellent, thanks! I wasn't aware of this. One more point for you ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 19:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

I'm on a widescreen, and I still prefer maximizing most apps ;) This is probably because I don't multitask much, and I like giving an app my full attention.

On a tangent, my preference unfortunately makes the Gimp a pain to use in Windows, because maximizing the document window blocks out the toolbox (damn thing is never where you need it...). I wish they'd give the toolbox(es) a sidebar mode or something, either on the desktop or in the document window.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 19:43 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

"On a tangent, my preference unfortunately makes the Gimp a pain to use in Windows, because maximizing the document window blocks out the toolbox (damn thing is never where you need it...). I wish they'd give the toolbox(es) a sidebar mode or something, either on the desktop or in the document window."

I don't know if I understood you right, but at least in Linux you can make the GIMP toolbars to be always on top of other windows (Preferences - Window behavior, or something like that).

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 20:05 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

Yeah... no such luck in Windows T_T Linux's WMs give you some more possibilities (ex. snap to edges makes unmaximized window moving/resizing more convenient).

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 20:40 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

Even Always on Top isn't really good enough, since that makes them overlap part of the image. The ideal, IMHO, would be to make everything that's always visible sidebars, and maximise the window. (A tab bar or something for the open documents could be nice.)

Reply Score: 0

RE[7]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 22:09 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Anonymous Member since:
---

No point making suggestions. They don't listen, they never have. It's their way or the highway.

I've been hearing criticism against the millions of windows and the general layout of Gimp for years now. Did they ever even consider adding an option to make these people happy?

Reply Score: 0

RE[7]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Daniel Borgmann on Wed 14th Dec 2005 22:42 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Daniel Borgmann Member since:
2005-07-08

One possible solution for this problem could be a docking function for utility windows in the window manager. Utility windows already can't be maximized, so instead of maximize they could have a dock button. Docking works similar to maximizing after all, only that it doesn't cover the entire screen and those windows would have to act as contraints to other windows.

The most tricky part of the implementation would probably be to get the placing right and to allow the user to move and undock the docked windows properly.

Reply Score: 1

RE[8]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Kroc on Thu 15th Dec 2005 00:19 UTC in reply to "RE[7]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

You mean like the perfect docking in PSPX with auto hide like VS.NET? Even photoshop is horribly behind with it's MDI. You have to try PSPX with the palletes docked on auto-hide and tabbed interface on. Now that's a proper UI for working with.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows
by subterrific on Wed 14th Dec 2005 23:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE 3.5 windows"
subterrific Member since:
2005-07-10

http://modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~tuomov/ion/

ion, hands down the most inovative window manager. It solves the overlapping windows problem and makes many other window management tasks very easy. It is a pretty radical departure from KWin or Metacity, but it only took me about a week to get used to it. I use GNOME, and I was able to replace Metacity with ion3.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Rowan Lewis on Thu 15th Dec 2005 01:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows"
Rowan Lewis Member since:
2005-10-13

Ion is an interesting idea, but even on my 17" screen I still prefer to have windows stacked and just ALT-TAB over them, especially when coding or working on website designs, you need all the room you can get.

However, I think KWin and Metacity should offer some method of arranging a few selected windows like Ion does.

Reply Score: 1

Appealing
by Mystilleef on Wed 14th Dec 2005 15:20 UTC
Mystilleef
Member since:
2005-06-29

>(so ending the KDE vs. GNOME flamewars).

In your wildest dreams. These trolls are jobless and have no life.

Appeal is a great project. I look forward to its maturity and success. In my opinion, it defines what a desktop experience should be and what desktop application development should be about. Fark the framework wars, languages wars, toolkit wars and trolls. Appeal and projects like Appeal is really what matters to end users.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Appealing
by setuid_w00t on Wed 14th Dec 2005 15:53 UTC in reply to "Appealing"
setuid_w00t Member since:
2005-10-22

>> (so ending the KDE vs. GNOME flamewars).
> In your wildest dreams. These trolls are jobless and have no life.

Trolls have jobs and lives. They just happen to see the humor in people getting all bent out of shape over Internet discussions.

Thanks to your obvious displeasure the trolls are a little bit less hungry. Of course feeding the trolls does nothing but attract more trolls.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Appealing
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 16:03 UTC in reply to "Appealing"
Anonymous Member since:
---

End the flamewars? Yeah, I know it's a difficult thing to happen. Anyway, I said that also because, while being mainly a KDE user, I like some of GNOME's implementations of things (for example, the Applications, etc. menus on the left). There are some good ideas everywhere, so let's hope they will be well integrated in all main future environments and that one project can learn from the other...

Reply Score: 0

v Google has already bought Opera!!
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 15:30 UTC
nimble Member since:
2005-07-06

Google has already bought Opera!!

Have they? Source?

And what's it got to do with KDE?

And I hope they will buy Trolltech as soon as possible to give QT a more liberal license.

Not that old flamewar again please.

Reply Score: 1

Anonymous Member since:
---

The link is that KDE is written with QT, as Opera is. And maybe Google will go a step further, as they won't do the same error than MySQL did with innobase (if they are smarter, of course)
Here, in french:
http://www.generation-nt.com/actualites/10770/google-opera

Reply Score: 0

Anonymous Member since:
---

My frensh is not very good, but I do know what "veut consolider" means ;)

Reply Score: 0

Anonymous. Member since:
2005-12-04

"Mesdames et messieurs, il faudra prendre cette information avec précaution et attendre une confirmation..."

Reply Score: 2

setuid_w00t Member since:
2005-10-22

I hope google buys milk and makes it more delicious and nutricious.

FANBOY!!!!!

KDE seems to be making excellent progress. I a a new KDE convert. I tried it a few years ago and it was butt ugly. Now the widgets look almost as good as GTK. This is just personal opinion, but I think KDE feels more integrated and less cobbled together than Gnome.

Reply Score: 1

Oxygen looks really slick
by re_re on Wed 14th Dec 2005 15:38 UTC
re_re
Member since:
2005-07-06

Appeal looks very impressive and definitly has huge potential. One thing that stuck out to me was the beginnings of Oxygen, this is from what I have seen, the most polished, beautiful, and professional icon/widget theme I have ever seen.

I can't wait to see some of this work backported to the 3.5 series

Great work KDE devs.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Oxygen looks really slick
by Anonymous on Thu 15th Dec 2005 01:35 UTC in reply to "Oxygen looks really slick"
Anonymous Member since:
---

I agree, it looks slick. The idea that different types of icons should look different is excellent. The problem is that they intend to do it mostly by use of colors. This is a bit too subtle.

It would have been better if they had worked more with shapes. E.g. like old MacOS where evereything executable was rombic. Colors are nice but people experience them differently even if they are not officially color blind.

Shapes also works better in black and white, using shapes instead of colors would also have made it easier to apply color themes the desktop. Something that would be quite simple when using SVG icons.

Reply Score: 0

kde great work!
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 17:09 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

kde is really starting to kick some major ass now, can't wait for kde4, really like how they are working with artists and are organising them selves.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Google has already bought Opera!!
by superstoned on Wed 14th Dec 2005 17:18 UTC
superstoned
Member since:
2005-07-07

Qt already has the most liberal license the free software foundation has to offer: the GPL. what could google do? only make it less free (Lesser GPL or LGPL, like Gnome/gtk); or garantuee no more it stays free: BSD-like. nah, i think it should stay this way: GPL. and for those that really insist on creating proprietary software, let them pay for a proprietary license...

Reply Score: 3

Anonymous Member since:
---

Qt already has the most liberal license the free software foundation has to offer: the GPL.

I don't think liberal would be the correct term to use. I think you need to check the definition of liberal. Generally, it means without limits (as well as other meanings). The GPL limits what kind of freedoms you have with the software (i.e. I am limited to only writing open software), but ensures that the software remains free. Confusing, but true.

what could google do? only make it less free (Lesser GPL or LGPL, like Gnome/gtk); or garantuee no more it stays free: BSD-like.

Again, check you definition of free (i.e. without restriction - again, along with other meanings). LGPL places fewer limitations. I can now link proprietary code with LGPL'd software. That's great for business! And hey, if along the process of writing my proprietary code I find a bug in the LGPL software I can graciously send a patch. A win-win situation.

As far as BSD goes, it's even more liberal. I can do anything I want with the software. I can choose to let it remain open, or can close it up. The point is, I have the freedom to choose.

The guys that write BSD software like Santa Claus, they give without demanding anything back. Sure, they'd like you to spread good will and cheer (i.e. promote BSD software or write BSD software) but they don't force you to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that GPL is bad. Like all licenses, it has it's place. Licences are like tools, you use the right one for the job.

Reply Score: 2

superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

i think this is a matter of opinion. maybe at first, BSD licenses are more free. but one can take the code, and 'close' it, and use it to take others freedom to do with the code what they want. so in my opinion, it does NOT promote freedom - it allows restrictions, it allows someone to take someone elses freedom. it is NOT a real free license, in the sense of what te purpose is of free software: to garantuee the freedom of its users.

the same goes for the LGPL - it does NOT promote freedom, it not just allows for non-free software, it promotes it! so imho this is a bad license (and the FSF agrees - and it tells you NOT to use the LGPL for your software! check the site yourself...)

you might say i'm an extremist, a purist. well, that might be true. but in any case, this is the reason i prefer trolltech's licensing: altough it also allows for non-free software, they force writers of proprietary software to pay and contribute to FREE software.

Reply Score: 2

Is it just me
by jdrake on Wed 14th Dec 2005 17:24 UTC
jdrake
Member since:
2005-07-07

Is it just me or does KDE seem to be doing a lot more than GNOME? I personally use GNOME over KDE for varies reasons, but this stuff sounds cool.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Is it just me
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 17:36 UTC in reply to "Is it just me"
Anonymous Member since:
---

KDE seems to be doing more bravado and hype. The Oxygen icons look super. But the Tenor repositories are looking a bit old and unenthusiastic.

Compared to the effort Novell has put into Beagle which is actually tangible right now.

QT4 is a decent and solid piece of technology, but KDE4 seems to still exist as a grab-bag of flash demos.

I'm sure with 3.5 out the way, Appeal will pick up, but its got nothing on Gnome. Cairo is making very visible progress and 2.14 is looking efficient.

What's KDE shown off lately to make you think otherwise?

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Is it just me
by segedunum on Wed 14th Dec 2005 18:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Is it just me"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

KDE seems to be doing more bravado and hype.

That's funny. KDE has never done bravado and hype, and people have often criticised them for not hyping stuff enough.

But the Tenor repositories are looking a bit old and unenthusiastic.

Tenor needs an underlying framework, and that is Kat, which is still seing a lot of heavy work. Until that becomes more solid there's not going to be much Tenor progress.

Compared to the effort Novell has put into Beagle which is actually tangible right now.

Tenor is not the simple search application that Beagle is. Beagle also brings your machine to its knees. I wouldn't really call it tangible.

QT4 is a decent and solid piece of technology

Which is exactly what you need.

but KDE4 seems to still exist as a grab-bag of flash demos.

Since KDE 4 hasn't been released yet, what did you expect?

I'm sure with 3.5 out the way, Appeal will pick up, but its got nothing on Gnome.

What's Gnome doing that's like Appeal, or like anything that's in Appeal?

Cairo is making very visible progress and 2.14 is looking efficient.

Cairo is a long, long, long, long way from being able to give you the kinds of desktop effects that only exist currently in videos of developer's desktops. Some things are available now, but they're far from efficient. Firstly, you need nice programming tools and the right framework above the core library for it to be truly useful. Achieving the required quality is also a lot of work. Just ask Apple or Microsoft.

A problem that both KDE and Gnome have in producing a lot of these pie-in-the-sky desktop effects is the state of hardware acceleration on Linux. It's simply not of a high enough quality yet, and any next generation desktop will have to use the hardware when it's available but scale right back when needed. You can't just start depending on this stuff.

What's KDE shown off lately to make you think otherwise?

The stuff in that artice? Heaven knows, I've seen nothing from anyone else recently.

Edited 2005-12-14 18:16

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Is it just me
by molnarcs on Wed 14th Dec 2005 18:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Is it just me"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

What's KDE shown off lately to make you think otherwise?

Well, they have written their own office suite from scratch. Kword 1.4.2 already supports odt, krita is beginning to become a viable gimp replacement, karbon a very nice vector drawing program, and I won't mention the rest of Koffice. GNOME hasn't produced anything like that - just integrated 3 apps in the so called gnome office, ant that's all.

Epiphany/Galeon - a skin on Gecko, that's what it is, and they are being developed for years now. KDE: wrote a html rendering engine from scratch, that now powers Safari and Nokia's s60 browser.

They just released KDE 3.5 recently. Many kde3 parts are already ported to QT4, and there is a demo version of kexi running on Windows! The path to KDE's future is very clear - the goals are clear, and the tools are superb: QT4 has smaller memory footprint, it is faster, and easier to program for - not that qt3 didn't have an excellent reputation, but they still managed to top that. Compare that to GNOME's vision, which is still at (or at least that how it seems) what shall we use for 3 stage (will Beagle, a mono app,an integral part of GNOME for instance?).

KDE 4 - they have the energy, the resources, the clarity of vision, the tools to do it, and significant work is already done on the path to KDE4. Not only that, but (as I mentioned) they still find time somehow to develop a full featured office suite and a html engine as well.

parent's question was: "Is it just me or does KDE seem to be doing a lot more than GNOME?" Whether you use GNOME or KDE, fact is, there is a LOT more activity around KDE, and I don't think any fanboy would dispute that (just look at the hard facts: compare the code output of both projects or the application stack)

Just FYI...

Reply Score: 4

RE: Is it just me
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 18:33 UTC in reply to "Is it just me"
Anonymous Member since:
---

I'm used Gnome for years, but recently converted to KDE. Gnome never looked like a complete desktop; it always felt like bunch of apps glued loosely together; KDE on the other hand, is very integrated, very consistent; and well engineered. Gnome lacks many features existed in KDE for years; and I don't think Gnome will ever catch up with KDE.

Reply Score: 3

Sounds Like a Weather Forecast
by segedunum on Wed 14th Dec 2005 17:52 UTC
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

Cooler, fresher, more oxygen..... Goodness.

I was interested to hear about Tenor and the underlying framework (Kat) being integrated into KDE. I think that's a great idea. It will get far more testing, interest and integration with existing KDE infrastructure as a result. It's also important to point out that the contextual stuff of Tenor is far more important than just 'searching for stuff'. Your searches should actually have real meaning - 'What e-mail did I get that talked about this document I have here?'

You're almost certainly not going to get that with Beagle. While Beagle is a useful search application, that's all it is. It has no way of being able to discern the actual context of search objects and others around it. Additionally, given the fact that it is written with Mono I'd say that the chances of it being an actual part of Gnome are nil, but that's a political, not a technical thing.

When I first started using Beagle, if it didn't completely die under it's own memory and resource usage, it was a really useful thing to have when I needed it. And, technically and functionally speaking, Beagle is not all that ground breaking. I'm really rather interested to see how much further along the road Tenor will be.

Reply Score: 4

Daniel Borgmann Member since:
2005-07-08

Additionally, given the fact that it is written with Mono I'd say that the chances of it being an actual part of Gnome are nil, but that's a political, not a technical thing.

Don't be so sure about that. It is possible to integrate Beagle into the desktop without depending on it, like Nautilus does with its new search widget (which was implemented by a Red Hat employee no less). It will likely not be part of the GNOME project anytime soon, but neither are many other technologies which are integrated into the desktop (like Gecko). It doesn't really matter to the user.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Is it just me
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 18:05 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

"What's KDE shown off lately to make you think otherwise?"

what i think kde has done of late is instead of concentrating fully on major changes is that they have done a lot of small tweaks, these may be small but make a whole lot of difference to the overall quality and usabiltiy of the desktop!

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Google has already bought Opera!!
by lezard on Wed 14th Dec 2005 18:33 UTC
lezard
Member since:
2005-10-11

I know that it is off-topic. "veut consolider" means "wants to comfort" its position. Maybe more correct in English would be "want to assure" its position.

If that's the only thing you didn't understand, well done ! Please take care of noting that even the website consider this more as a rumor than anything else.

Reply Score: 2

Wrawrat Member since:
2005-06-30

I believe you're mixing consolider and consoler. It's more like "strenghten their position".

A loose translation of the header of that article is "Google wants to strenghten their position in the browser market" and they clearly state that it should be taken with a grain of salt until there is a confirmation.

While buying Opera would make sense, buying Trolltech wouldn't. Google is providing web services, trying to be the undiscutable leader in that market. Trolltech isn't a target. eBay bought Skype, yet there are no rumours about buying TT!

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows
by ma_d on Wed 14th Dec 2005 18:56 UTC
ma_d
Member since:
2005-06-29

Right/middle click maximize modes are available on most any good window manager and have been for quite some time.
So you can maximize vertically and horizontally or just one of the two.

E16 and probably E17 support maximization to the borders of other windows (a needed function in most other window managers).

TMK Mac has always considered maximization something to ask the application about. Because Mac seems to maximize to the largest size for that window that makes since (like on a browser, the scroll bars aren't needed). This is a nifty idea, but it's against the flow of Unix/Windows window managers: Ignore what the app wants.

But yes, there are more maximization options than you probably have realized (unless you're using something like metacity; and then well sorry; you can use good wm's in Gnome, it's a bit of work).
My recomendation: Quite maximizing ;) . I used to maximize everything but my IM windows. But then one day I asked myself: Why don't Mac people seem to do this? And I tried not maximizing and quickly discovered why people buy those high res screens: More useful space.
I will occasionally use a middle or right click maximize; it can be quite handy on a PDF or my buddy list.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Is it just me
by ma_d on Wed 14th Dec 2005 18:58 UTC
ma_d
Member since:
2005-06-29

Novell has been working on Beagle for centuries... I'm actually getting tired of not seeing it installed in any distributions (has it made it into something major yet?!).
I wouldn't call Beagle a fast moving project. And I don't think it's intended to be either. I think Beagle is actually just a way to show off the power of the framework they're working on.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Google has already bought Opera!!
by ma_d on Wed 14th Dec 2005 19:00 UTC
ma_d
Member since:
2005-06-29

I don't. The last thing Trolltech needs is an American company owning them... I think Trolltech takes a great deal of pride in being ... (Swedish I think?)

Reply Score: 1

Anonymous Member since:
---

Trolltech is from Norway

Reply Score: 0

Anonymous Member since:
---

Trolltech is from Norway...

Reply Score: 0

Oxygen
by Anonymous on Wed 14th Dec 2005 19:12 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

There's something about Oxygen's action icons (particularly the "stop" icon) that I don't quite like... compared to the other Oxygen icons they look kinda sharp-cornered, with overly bright colors. Still, I think I like it better than the shiny-plastic ;)

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: KDE 3.5 windows
by Morty on Wed 14th Dec 2005 19:19 UTC
Morty
Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't see any window managers other than OS X dealing with this

I'm only on a standard 4:3 monitor, but nearly never use regular maximize. Mostly I use maximize vertically(MMB on maxbutton), and I think that would work just as good on a 16:9 screen. Most window manager supports this.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: KDE 3.5 windows
by archiesteel on Thu 15th Dec 2005 03:11 UTC
archiesteel
Member since:
2005-07-02

Thanks for the tip, I didn't know that KDE had this feature. What a great DE!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Is it just me
by teprrr on Thu 15th Dec 2005 15:35 UTC
teprrr
Member since:
2005-07-06

KDE4 seems to still exist as a grab-bag of flash demos.
Heck, what's wrong with you people? KDE4 is on a development state (currently there's porting KDE to Qt4 ongoing) and there hasn't been even release schedule set yet. It may be that KDE4 will be in the market in year or two, so what are you expecting to have but some mockups?

Oh, btw, how's Gnome 3.0 going on? For me it seems to still exist as some plans for the future...

Reply Score: 1