Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 28th Dec 2005 13:17 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Jeff Waugh is an employee of Canonical Limited, the firm behind Ubuntu Linux. In his spare time he works on the GNOME window manager program. Jeff formerly was the release manager for GNOME. On November 7, 2005, Jeff Waugh was far away from his native and current home in Australia. He was at the University of Toronto in Ontario, Canada, as part of his BadgerBadgerBadger tour. Jeff offered his insights into GNOME and Ubuntu in a talk titled 'Running with Scissors'.
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Window manager program?
by ziggamon on Wed 28th Dec 2005 14:01 UTC
ziggamon
Member since:
2005-07-06

come on!

Both you and I know it's more than a window manager...
And that it is a whole bunch of programs and libraries...


Do some editing! Seriously!

Reply Score: 0

Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Dec 2005 14:06 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Althought Ubuntu is a good product, I find the Gnome remaster of PCLinuxOS ahead of Ubuntu on every turn.

http://genieos.toluenterprises.com/otherstuff.html

I don't understand how Texstar can outperform Ubuntu which has some serious resources behind it and loads of developers especially when a majority of the packages come from the Debian pools.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Dec 2005 23:05 UTC in reply to "Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS"
Anonymous Member since:
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Cuz Texstar just adds eye candy to MDV and a couple of apps.

Its not advanced physics

Ubuntu basically rebuilds debian so its a little more tolerable, but not enough for me to use.

Reply Score: 0

Jeff!
by netdur on Wed 28th Dec 2005 14:06 UTC
netdur
Member since:
2005-07-07

you're our hero, we love you!

Reply Score: 2

Huh?
by CharAznable on Wed 28th Dec 2005 15:07 UTC
CharAznable
Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple Searchlight? What's that?
The GNOME "window manager program"?
Does he mean Metacity or is he calling GNOME a window manager?

At times, it seems like the author of the article has no familiarity with the subject matter.

Reply Score: 2

v He's a fucking idiot
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Dec 2005 15:27 UTC
RE: He's a fucking idiot
by chekr on Wed 28th Dec 2005 23:37 UTC in reply to "He's a fucking idiot"
chekr Member since:
2005-11-05

Ali Akcaagac there is no need to post anon.

Going by the way you are behaving here I can see why you didn't get along, I mean you've made some pretty wild accusations with nothing to back it up. Not to mention your inability to articulate your thoughts in a civilised manner.

Please keep your personal attacks exactly that, personal, and don't air your dirty laundry in a public forum.

Reply Score: 1

New Year's Resolution
by moleskine on Wed 28th Dec 2005 15:32 UTC
moleskine
Member since:
2005-11-05

No more puffing of minor Ubuntu stuff on OSNews, please! New releases and big stuff, OK. It's surely time we all moved on.

Reply Score: 0

BadgerBadgerBadger
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Dec 2005 15:34 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Wow! I hadn't seen that Breezy Badger release dance animation before. It's kinda spooky and hypnotic. Most impressive. :-D

Reply Score: 1

Ubuntu Laptop Strategy in article
by Moulinneuf on Wed 28th Dec 2005 17:30 UTC
Moulinneuf
Member since:
2005-07-06

The Ubuntu Laptop strategy explained in this article and the development method used seem wrong to me. Dont blow my comment out of proportion , the information provided in the article could be innacurate , so dont take all that I write as accurate either , I have never seen them at work , its a real nice effort , it also produced good result in some category that they have made so far , but I think that there working method is wrong.

First of all they relly on the good will of the Hardware OEM vendor to provide them with the equipment they need. Which if you look at it closely they seem to be providing only some series of Laptop ( older models or poor selling models ). Which they never seem to completely get fully functionnal.

Second , they dont seem to completely make a Laptop fully functionnal , they try to but they never seem to have the aim to make a complete fully flagued finished Ubuntu Laptop. They seem to be targetting driver making instead of fully working solution.

Third , They dont target all OEM brand name the same , the favorite seem to be HP and Dell the rest seem to be provided by the community.

Fourth the process seem to be somewhat closed , it dont seem to involve a lot of community participation at all.

etc ...

example :

The type :

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/entnb_...

There result :

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellInspiron6000-2

VS

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2376

http://www.antoniocheca.com/wp/content-text/ubuntu-inspiron6000.htm...

http://www.fam-lindeman.nl/content/category/2/16/34/

http://james.jamesandkristin.net/?p=19

http://eulex.0nyx.com/inspiron6000.html

Ubuntu is not alone , but GNU/Linux need a bit more professionalism. Ubuntu as no excuse either they got the hardware and budget.

Reply Score: 2

v hey!
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Dec 2005 18:07 UTC
Ubuntu Laptop Strategy in article
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Dec 2005 19:50 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
---

That is an odd statement about Laptop Testing. For full disclosure, I received one of the laptops from Canonical. Here is the skinny:

Canonical purchased a number of laptops and provided them to community members, including myself. AFAIK, there have been no hardware donations to the program. Basically we document what works out of the box, no custom tweaking. Then the gurus get to work and make all laptops of that type work out of the box.

This is better than the previous method which was very haphazard and wasn't really aimed at getting the problem fixed at the distro level, merely providing information to end users on how to get it working.

The laptop testing team is thus NOT:
- A place to review laptops
- A place to tell people about how to get their laptop working in Linux/Ubuntu

As for it being closed, absolutely not. Canonical is not providing any more laptops, but anyone with a laptop can join the community side.

As for targeting specific brand names, I think they got the biggest selling laptops, but I honestly have no idea how they selected. But it does cover most major manufacturers.

As for getting them fully functional, my laptop now has most hardware working out of the box and working suspend and hibernate out of the box. The only piece of hardware that I know will not work in the SD card reader.

Cheers,

Corey Burger
Ubuntu Laptop Testing Team and Ubuntu Documentation Team

Reply Score: 4

JCooper Member since:
2005-07-06

As for getting them fully functional, my laptop now has most hardware working out of the box and working suspend and hibernate out of the box. The only piece of hardware that I know will not work in the SD card reader.

Sounds like my Toshiba Tecra M2 ;)

Reply Score: 1

Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

Quote from article :

"Efforts were made as well to support as many name-brand laptops off the main install disk as possible. So, Canonical approached the various laptop manufacturers asking for laptops in exchange for them making sure that Ubuntu would work on as much of their hardware as possible. Canonical got free laptops, with machines going out to selective members and to the head of hardware testing, Matthew Garrett. Apparently Matthew no longer likes getting deliveries, as he now has a table covered with laptops. "

"there have been no hardware donations to the program."

Lets say that your in the right ( the article claim otherwise ) , thats a problem in itself , but more importantly the fact that your ( Ubuntu ) not fully partnering with the OEM brand means that you have access to only a limited selection of series of Laptop distributed by the top brand name.

"Basically we document what works out of the box"

In other words instead of trying out what the Laptop can do , your looking at what the distribution can do out of the box without knowing what all the parts of the machine is.

"Then the gurus get to work and make all laptops of that type work out of the box."

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ToshibaTecraA5-S116

"There are two versions of the A5"

Toshiba support seem to disagree with your assesment :

A5-S116
A5-S118
A5-S237
A5-S416
A5-S516
A5-S6215TD

Untested and no means that its now working ?

"This is better than ... the distro level"

Would you buy a house that work and is complete at 80% ?

The laptop testing team is thus NOT:

- Capable of reviewing there laptop and compare and search for others review.
- A place of discussion for people to share how they make there own hardware work , share driver and upgrade and so that hopefully they can help further GNU/Linux - Ubuntu by having it include in there newer release and development version the hardware that they themself have made working.
- Capable of building a complete tailor made OEM master for the Laptop they are testing.

"As for it being closed, absolutely not."

You see an open to all comment button or a suggest box beside getting authorized log in ?

"I think they got the biggest selling laptops"

There ( you ) supposed to get all the Laptop.

"But it does cover most major manufacturers."

Clevo : missing
Gateway : missing
...

Go to a Best Buy or Futurshop or Stapple or any store near where you live.

"most hardware working out of the box , The only piece of hardware that I know will not work in the SD card reader."

That answer dont cut it for the Laptop buyer , they whant there entire Laptop supported by there OS and they whant it installed and sold with the OS as default in store with support.

All the untested and no in your own Testing page seem to indicate that your not accurate or that you forgot to update your own testing page.

If its already so perfect how come there is no master CD or DVD for that model ?

Reply Score: 1

Anonymous Member since:
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Moulinneuf if you have this laptop, why not test the untested parts for Breezy and Dapper? It would be a whole more helpful than the rant you just made. There are a lot of laptops with odd hardware.

The page you linked to actually shows that progress is being made. So it looks like the only point you have made is that you would rather whine than to help.

Reply Score: 0

Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

Anonymous ,

"if you have this laptop"

No , I dont , but that individual does , it whas provided to him by Canonical. But then again I whas talking about the entire Ubuntu Laptop process and not one individual , he decided to make it personnal , and you decided to do what you usualy do , harrass , categorize and insult me as a coward.

"why not test the untested parts for Breezy and Dapper?"

I am not paid to do so. I dont have the hardware , I also find it strange that he dont and as no access to any of it among other things.

"It would be a whole more helpful than the rant you just made."

I made a rant ? No , but as usual you differ in opinion with the reality of things , anonymous.

"There are a lot of laptops with odd hardware."

Thats an understatement in one way and its absolutely wrong in another. But then you yourself are never into beeing accurate.

"The page you linked to actually shows that progress is being made."

No , it showed that testing whas done with the stable and developement version.

"So it looks like the only point you have made is that you would rather whine than to help."

No , but then again the point I make always elude you.

Reply Score: 1

mjg59 Member since:
2005-10-17

"Lets say that your in the right ( the article claim otherwise ) , thats a problem in itself , but more importantly the fact that your ( Ubuntu ) not fully partnering with the OEM brand means that you have access to only a limited selection of series of Laptop distributed by the top brand name."

Some hardware has been provided by OEMs. Some has been purchased. Out of the 12 laptops I have here, it's about 50/50.

"In other words instead of trying out what the Laptop can do , your looking at what the distribution can do out of the box without knowing what all the parts of the machine is."

We test what the laptop can do, and then document how much of it works out of the box. We then concentrate on improving support for stuff that doesn't work.

"share driver and upgrade and so that hopefully they can help further GNU/Linux - Ubuntu by having it include in there newer release and development version the hardware that they themself have made working."

All the support code I've written has been submitted upstream. Most of it is already in the kernel.

"Capable of building a complete tailor made OEM master for the Laptop they are testing."

There's no need. Nothing's been special cased - if it's possible to drive the hardware using Ubuntu, then it'll work with the stock distribution. Maintaining 40 different OEM versions would be insane.

"You see an open to all comment button or a suggest box beside getting authorized log in ?"

The wiki is open to all. You need to register in order to be able to do so in order to reduce spam. Also, there's a mailing list at laptop-testing-team@lists.ubuntu.com and an IRC channel (#ubuntu-laptop on irc.freenode.org). How much more open do you want it to be?

Reply Score: 2

Laptop testing, redux
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Dec 2005 22:58 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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The DCC people and Ubuntu are also talking about sharing Laptop testing data back and forth.

Corey Burger
Ubuntu Laptop Testing Team and Ubuntu Documentation Team

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: He's a fucking idiot
by apachelogger on Thu 29th Dec 2005 00:29 UTC
apachelogger
Member since:
2005-12-29

chekr, sorry, but that post isn't from Ali, we're currently ircing and I checked his IP (84.129.245.xx)

looks quite different, doesn't it?

would be really great if you'd check if it is correct what you're writing, since you probably also won't like to be charged wihout reason

and, no, I'm not a fake-ali-account
ask google if you don't belive me :-P

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: He's a fucking idiot
by chekr on Thu 29th Dec 2005 00:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: He's a fucking idiot"
chekr Member since:
2005-11-05

my apologies...time for an edit i guess ;)

Reply Score: 1

edits
by chekr on Thu 29th Dec 2005 00:43 UTC
chekr
Member since:
2005-11-05

umm any reason why I can't edit my previous posts...OSNews staff?

Reply Score: 1

Hummmm!!!
by Hakime on Thu 29th Dec 2005 07:40 UTC
Hakime
Member since:
2005-11-16

Why does he think that Beagle is better than Spotilight, in what, for which reasons? He does even know the proper name of Spotlight, (he is speaking about Searchlight), and he wants people to consider his statement seriously and think that he knows what he is talking about? I really doubt that Beagle is better than Spotlight anyway....

Why F-spot is coller than iPhoto? For which reason? Does he really know iPhoto, i doubt.....

Saying that everything is better than what Apple does just because it comes from the open community is really the sign of a guy not really aware of the reality of the computing market.

Why to say that "Apple iPod owners already have encountered an example of how software in a device can limit their options." I am sorry i dont feel so, i just feel that i have a devive that just works and works as i expect that it works.

Reply Score: 4

A few reasons.
by miguel on Thu 29th Dec 2005 16:42 UTC
miguel
Member since:
2005-07-27

A reader asks why Beagle might be better than Spotlight and F-Spot better than iPhoto.

A lot of it will have to do with your usage pattern; In particular for Linux people both are better just because they are available on Linux and they are open source which Apple's products are not.

From a purely technical standpoint though F-Spot scales much better than iPhoto. I for instance have around 40,000 pictures on my F-Spot browser at home and it handles the load of five years of pictures just fine. The same can not be said about iPhoto. F-Spot also has some other nice features like exporting to Gallery, Flickr and a few others and supports adding comments and tags to the file metadata. F-Spot's tagging is also superb.

Another cute technical advantage is that both applications are built with Mono and they are very easy to hack on.

For instance Nattagging was implemented in two days by someone who was not familiar with the codebase at all.

But again, it will depend a lot on the user.

Miguel.

Reply Score: 1

Beagle and Dashboard are Ximian apps
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Dec 2005 17:33 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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To claim they are part of Gnome is like saying Ubuntu is a part of Debian.

Reply Score: 0

Anonymous Member since:
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They're excellent appolications written with C# and Mono, built on the GNOME platform, for GNOME. Sure, they're not shipped every six months as part of an official release suite, but in what way are they not "GNOME aplications"?

Reply Score: 0