Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 9th Jan 2006 11:27 UTC
Linspire Linspire has started another attempt at selling computers pre-installed with their operating system - this time by teaming up with Mirus - called the Koobox. Ars looks at the situation: "At this point it is hard to assess the potential of the Koobox systems. If it succeeds, the product could help legitimize desktop Linux and bring it further into the mainstream. Regardless of how many get sold, the availability of yet another budget Linux PC illuminates the growing popularity of the Linux platform, and contributes to the perception that Linux is applicable to desktop computing."
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v Linspire's broken idea of security
by SEJeff on Mon 9th Jan 2006 13:48 UTC
Nikato
Member since:
2005-12-17

I use linspire, and have never had to use the web as root.
I have multiple accounts set up....Duh.
Linspire defaults account setup to root in order to simplify installation, also during install they recommend twice to set up a non-root account.

Reply Score: 4

diskinetic Member since:
2005-12-09

I recently took a look at the Linspire Live disc, and yes, more than once they mention and provide tools for creating "user" accounts, so I believe the whole "they make you run as root" thing is a bit overblown. By the way, I showed the running session to two hard-core users of another OS, and they are seriously considering switching to Linux, despite my full disclosure about the learning curve and other hurdles. If a distro can generate that kind of curiosity, I can see that as beneficial. Plus, they have boxed product at Best Buy, and like it or not, that legitimizes the idea in some people's minds. I use Ubuntu and I can't really see paying 100 dollars for a linux distro and a year's subscription to software repositories, but if spending that 100 dollars somehow soothes others, who am I to argue? We've been spending far more for far less for far too long.

Reply Score: 3

Pelly Member since:
2005-07-07

That's a pretty fair statement.

After reading all of the negative comments regarding the root-user issue, I too decided to geve Linspire (then LindowsOS) a try. This was pure curiosity on my part due to comments & such.

After setting up user accounts, everything worked fine. No problems at all.

Perhaps people mistook the point that Linspire (and LindowsOS) doesn't automatically create user accounts during installation (or after first boot) to be viewed as 'forcing,' people to use the system as root. That's not a valid assessment in my opinion.

Also, I've found no security flaws within Linspire. Testing at reputable sites will show this statement to be true.

Reply Score: 1

Koobox has been around for quite awhile.
by Sabon on Mon 9th Jan 2006 15:52 UTC
Sabon
Member since:
2005-07-06

Koobox has been around for quite awhile.

Reply Score: 1

Linspire is great
by gabor on Mon 9th Jan 2006 16:55 UTC
gabor
Member since:
2006-01-09

I've been using Linspire for over a year now. To me it's worth the money. On my Dell laptop, it boots with all my hardware working on the first boot. Wireless card, volume buttons...etc. Everything just works.

I also ordered some Ubuntu CDs to give that a try since it seems to be the currently hyped distro. It doesn't even boot on my laptop. I'm sure one could get it to work, but that would take me more time to figure out than what it's worth. I paid for Linspire and it's been working perfect, and click and run makes it easy to stay current.

Of course it doesn't require you to run as root.

Reply Score: 2

Linspire's Broken Idea of Security
by djross95 on Mon 9th Jan 2006 17:05 UTC
djross95
Member since:
2006-01-09

I agree that this "Linspire running as root" argument is getting as old as hen's teeth. What really surprises me is the vitriol that a few "old Linux hands" spew whenever the name Linspire comes up. Linspire makes no bones about the fact that they target inexperienced Linux and computer users for their distro, and thus would not expect to appeal to the Slackware crowd. Michael Robertson and the Linspire crowd has arguably done more than anyone to popularize Linux with the "unwashed masses", and for that they deserve our thanks (or at least silence) rather than the FUD and anger that they sometimes generate.

Just my two cents!

Reply Score: 3

v If at first...
by linuxh8r on Mon 9th Jan 2006 17:36 UTC
RE: If at first...
by markjensen on Mon 9th Jan 2006 17:43 UTC in reply to "If at first..."
markjensen Member since:
2005-07-26

It is a bit overly-broad to make the sweeping statement that nobody wants Linux on their desktop.

I certainly do want Linux as my computing desktop. As do a few other people I know. However, I don't particularly see that there is some need to battle for some ideological "Linux Desktop Supremacy".

I use it because it suits me. Period. GNU/Linux is about freedom, and the world has the freedom to try it and use it, or to not. As long as Linux is a viable desktop for me, I don't care if it has a 1%, 10% or 100% marketshare.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: If at first...
by d0nk3y on Mon 9th Jan 2006 20:23 UTC in reply to "RE: If at first..."
d0nk3y Member since:
2005-12-15

Yes - I agree with Mark.

I most certainly want linux on my desktop. And I have it - at work and at home.

Like Mark said - I use it because it suits me. I do think it would suit more people than most people think.

I realised this morning that the whole "linux is too hard for the average user" argument really is crap. Most people I help (friends, family etc) would need no more help with linux than they currently do with Windows - they can't fix windows problems either.

The difference is, they'd find it harder to break a linux box because theres less they have access to as a normal user. and it would be easier for me to administer remotely!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: If at first...
by Jedd on Mon 9th Jan 2006 21:37 UTC in reply to "RE: If at first..."
Jedd Member since:
2005-07-06

Yeah I agree with Mark. I DEFINATELY want Linux on my desktop. That's why it's been there for over 7 years.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: If at first you are a hammer...
by glarepate on Mon 9th Jan 2006 22:10 UTC in reply to "RE: If at first..."
glarepate Member since:
2006-01-04

It is a bit overly-broad to make the sweeping statement that nobody wants Linux on their desktop.

You are being much too objective. Try limiting your perceptions a bit.

You may have heard the saying "To a hammer everything looks like a nail." If you don't see everything Linux as hate-able then you either are too undiscriminating in your perceptions or simply don't have your eyes crossed hard enough to bring this issue into apropriate perspective.

Or you are not LinuxH8er.

Or perhaps he was thinking of a particular nobody instead of an actual group that would be the referent of the term nobody.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: If at first...
by Dekkard on Mon 9th Jan 2006 20:36 UTC in reply to "If at first..."
Dekkard Member since:
2006-01-07

you come here, and can honestly say NO ONE wants linux on their desktop. This implies that many posters here are being held with a firearm to their head, or its a conspiracy. Its neither. And you goodsir are the queen of denial

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: If at first...
by LinspireMan on Tue 10th Jan 2006 05:30 UTC in reply to "If at first..."
LinspireMan Member since:
2006-01-10

That is really funny you say that, because I want Linux on MY desktop, especially Linspire Five-O. I was a Mac OS 7,8,9, and X/Windows XP user, but in June 2005 I had enough of the proprietary train ride and decided to switch to Linux. After trying SuSE Linux 9.3 Professional, Kubuntu, etc., I stumbled upon Linspire and have not looked back once. Linux for the desktop is here already - it's Linspire Five-O!

I love Linspire Five-O a lot, because I can do almost 100% of what I could do with Mac OS X and Windows XP without the extraordinary cost that is involved with these other two platforms. In fact, I believe so much in the future of Linspire, I decided to start my own company to help push Linux further on the desktop. My business (SeaScape LLC - http://www.seascape.us/) is now a Linspire Authorized Builder and Linspire Authorized Reseller. We will be introducing our new Linspire-only systems in a few weeks.

To say that no one wants Linux on their desktop is simply unrealistic, considering the amount of people that are so sick and tired of Microsoft's security problems with Windows XP and earlier. When I am running Windows XP Professional, I constantly have people trying to break into my system - good luck as I have three levels of security. When I am in Linspire Five-O (which is 99% of the time), I do not even get any break in attempts. Hmmm... Wonder which OS I prefer? ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: If at first...
by macisaac on Tue 10th Jan 2006 06:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: If at first..."
macisaac Member since:
2005-08-28

Nifty, just checked out your website. I've never used linspire myself, but will admit for a home/family oriented desktop computer, it does look kind of interesting.

As to the systems your building, have you decided yet on intel vs amd (/me confirmed amd fanboy)? Price range? Neat cases, vaguely remind of the Cobalt Qube (at least the blue one) Also, what is that ferret's software you mention for kids? As the father of two young boys, I'm very curious because children's software is something that I find sadly a little lacking in Linux world. Tuxpaint and such are fine programs, but there's just not much (if anything) like say the Jumpstart programs from the Mac / Windows world.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: If at first...
by LinspireMan on Tue 10th Jan 2006 06:35 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: If at first..."
LinspireMan Member since:
2006-01-10

Thanks, and I really do appreciate the comments. ;) Feedback is nice, especially when you are pouring your heart and soul into a new business. hehehe

We plan on developing a children's line of software for Linspire Five-O and beyond with Ferrets Only. This is going to take some time, but it will happen this year for sure. This is something we want to help change for Linspire. There is some really great children's software for Linux from what I have seen, but we want to add to that a complete line of children's software like the programs you see in the stores for Windows XP/Mac OS X. Personally, I want to see a lot of Math software, because children today have very poor Math skills. This limits their futures in a way that many people do not normally think of.

I wish I could give you configurations and prices on the website now, but I cannot since I am still deciding what we should go with. We will release a press release with the information very soon - within one month. ;) Let's just say that our Linux (Linspire Five-O) computers are not going to be slow at all. I want to push the envelope with our SeaScape computers. Since I demand quality with my own personal computer and the parts inside of it, this is what we will pursue for our new computers. The cases are absolutely sweet! Personally, I hate ugly cases. LOL It took me a long time to decide on this crucial part of the systems we are going to offer.

Keep watching the website! ;) Also, I am in the Linspire forums a lot, so you could come over there and pay us a visit. We don't bite, and we are very friendly to new Linspire users. That is the one thing that sets Linspire above all other Linux distributions. The people there are awesome IMHO. My user name is LinspireMan.

Edited 2006-01-10 06:50

Reply Score: 1

No one is perfect
by SEJeff on Mon 9th Jan 2006 17:42 UTC
SEJeff
Member since:
2005-11-05

Ok, I was wrong about the run as root thing... I haven't used Linspire since it was first released and was named Lindows.

What about Click'n'run? Sure it's nice to be able to point, click, and install software, but you have to pay for it. Ubuntu offers pretty much the exact same thing via synaptic or even gnome-app-install yet you don't pay a dime for it. I really don't see the benefits of Linspire over Ubuntu and am curious to see what other Linspire users have to say.

Reply Score: 1

RE: No one is perfect
by raver31 on Mon 9th Jan 2006 20:49 UTC in reply to "No one is perfect"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

The advantages are that packages in the click and run repositories are fully tested and will not destroy your system.

As Linspire is Debian based, you can still use apt-get + synaptic with it, although this would be using standard Debain repositories, you ould be introducing errors onto the system.

The idea of Linspire is to get ex-windows users to move to Linux and to do this with the least amount of learning. Linspire, (and Xanros too, let me add), does an excellent job at this.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: No one is perfect
by SEJeff on Tue 10th Jan 2006 01:04 UTC in reply to "RE: No one is perfect"
SEJeff Member since:
2005-11-05

ummm the same can be said for the 19,000+ packages in the Ubuntu repositories. The main difference is that they are free in Ubuntu and not in Linspire. So back to the original question... how is Click'n'run better?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: No one is perfect
by raver31 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 20:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: No one is perfect"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

did you read my post before you replied ?

I said; "The advantages are that packages in the click and run repositories are fully tested and will not destroy your system.
"

The emphasis on FULLY TESTED. This is what you are paying for.. A Guarantee that the software in the C'n'R repositories will not bork your system.

Ubuntu, has not, and will not have this guarantee. Ever.

Reply Score: 1

RE: No one is perfect
by glarepate on Mon 9th Jan 2006 22:22 UTC in reply to "No one is perfect"
glarepate Member since:
2006-01-04

What about Click'n'run? Sure it's nice to be able to point, click, and install software, but you have to pay for it.

I believe this is a common practice among software users. People actually go out into the world and buy software. One difference here is that you don't have to go get in the car and fetch the software home to install it.

Another difference it's a heckuva lot cheaper than most software. You could easily spend $100 or more on one package (that may or may not be exactly what you want or need if you haven't already tried it out on your target system yet). Compared to spending the same amount to have an online catalog of selections that you may try, test and select from that seems like a *really* good deal.

Reply Score: 1

RE: No one is perfect
by abdavidson on Tue 10th Jan 2006 02:41 UTC in reply to "No one is perfect"
abdavidson Member since:
2005-07-06

Never understood how someone can say

"I haven't used Linspire since it was first released and was named Lindows."

And then follow up with

"I really don't see the benefits of Linspire over Ubuntu"

Reply Score: 2

CNR / Ubuntu
by djross95 on Mon 9th Jan 2006 17:59 UTC
djross95
Member since:
2006-01-09

What you're paying for in the Linspire distro is not the programs themselves (though your annual $50 buys you some significant discounts off of commercial programs such as Cedega and CrossOver Office) but the one-click install with all menus in their correct place, etc. It also buys you the best out of the box multimedia setup around, so you don't have to (as you do with Ubuntu) manually change the repositories and go searching for the correct plugins using apt-get.

Granted this is no big deal for someone experienced with Linux, but remember the Linspire target market--most of those folks (and many of us without a lot of time on our hands!) don't want to do that sort of stuff.

Reply Score: 3

@LinuxH8r
by r_a_trip on Mon 9th Jan 2006 18:00 UTC
r_a_trip
Member since:
2005-07-06

If at first... you don't succeed, try, try again.

The community tries to get people interested in GNU/Linux on the desktop to try it out on the desktop, so the numbers are naturally low. There just aren't that many tech savvy and computing responsible persons on the world.

Let's face it folks, nobody wants Linux on their desktop.

Well, there are many persons running it on the desktop and calling them nobodies isn't really nice. That Joe Blow doesn't want to think about it really doesn't tickle our interest one bit.

The linux community has lost the battle.

Was there a battle going on? Oh yeah, true. All those people who thought GNU/Linux was a simple and free of charge Windows clone got disappointed that it wasn't so. Now they make a stink about GNU/Linux alledgedly being worthless.

Even MacOSX has a better chance of take on the desktop and they only have a single digit percentage share of the dekstop.

Good for Apple and good for GNU/Linux, it keeps the hopelessly computing inept out of the GNU/Linux circles and saves us many support headaches.

Reply Score: 1

Amd 64-bit for 499?
by CuriosityKills on Mon 9th Jan 2006 18:37 UTC
CuriosityKills
Member since:
2005-07-10

Wow does that sound cheap? Hell no, i got my AMD 64 compaq presario for 405$ only after mail-in-rebate and it has superior configuration that KooBox. It was also preloaded with XP.

Can someone enlighten why anyone should buy koobox?

Reply Score: 1

This is great!
by Windows Sucks on Mon 9th Jan 2006 18:41 UTC
Windows Sucks
Member since:
2005-11-10

I think this is great! If it's gonna fail then let it fail, in the mean time I am happy that Linspire keeps stepping up!

The cool part is you KNOW for sure that any version of Linux will work on this machine. So if you get one out the box Ubuntu or Slackware or Suse should work just as well so you go with one of those.

As for Linspire I have some problems with them but that is for another post.

Reply Score: 1

Re: Amd 64-bit for 499?
by microshag on Mon 9th Jan 2006 18:55 UTC
microshag
Member since:
2005-11-30

"Can someone enlighten why anyone should buy koobox?"

Agreed. It's not really that great a deal. Neither are the Linux pcs that Walmart sells online. What Linux really needs is somebody like eMachines to offer a Linux model. These generic companies aren't giving you enough for the money.

Reply Score: 1

CNR / Ubuntu
by Michael_Valentine on Mon 9th Jan 2006 18:57 UTC
Michael_Valentine
Member since:
2005-07-22

Basic CNR is $20 per year and $50 for the Gold Edition. CNR is meant for the new users coming from Windows to Linux and those that wish to just use their PC's and not figure out all the in's and out's to the OS. There's no real advantage over apt-get when installing software if you don't care about one click installs or know how to add your own sources or compile your own programs, but it sure is worth it if you fall into the above two categories. The other thing to remember is that CNR also pushes updates and many other services besides installing software.

Reply Score: 1

RE: CNR / Ubuntu
by Windows Sucks on Mon 9th Jan 2006 19:12 UTC in reply to "CNR / Ubuntu"
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

The sucky part about CNR (And I have a subscription to it myself because my brother and mother use Linspire) is they take FOREVER to put software in CNR.

They STILL don't have the new version of Firefox, took them forever to get the new version of Open Office.

And if you want to get the newest versions of software when they come out you have to join the insider club. ($99)

I understand they have a business model etc, but to make CNR worth while for me they need to work out the intall issues for new apps and get them in there quick.

And I know, I know there are 50 other ways to install things without using CNR, but I am paying for CNR and would love to get my moneys worth!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: CNR / Ubuntu
by ma_d on Mon 9th Jan 2006 21:55 UTC in reply to "RE: CNR / Ubuntu"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

I disagree with charging more for this "insider club." But I can see why they slow the updates: Many free programs have a release cycle of about 3 weeks. That's a lot more updates than many users want. So, waiting, testing, and picking the best ones could be a great service.

If they were smart they'd do the insider service for $50, minus however many bug reports you file. Say, $5 a bug report. Or, even, give it out free to anyone, as long as they keep their bug reports coming.
That way those people could help them figure out which versions of software to let into the main stream.

But the guy who runs Linspire doesn't, IMO, understand free software very well.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: CNR / Ubuntu
by Windows Sucks on Mon 9th Jan 2006 22:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: CNR / Ubuntu"
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

I don't exspect them to have every dot release of software (Like 1.1.1 then 1.1.112 then 1.1.1111 etc) but when a major release like the version 2 of Open office comes out it would be nice not to have to wait 2 and a half months to get it in CNR when it was out in the Ubuntu repository and installed on my machine the next day after release.

Like with the new release of Firefox, this is a pretty major release that adds new features and most of all fixes some old problems, year CNR does not have it yet and that came out months ago.

Those are just 2 major examples but there are many others.

Their excuse is that they want to test it out and work out the kinks etc. But I really think it has more to do with it working right with Linspire and CNR that is the problem.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: CNR / Ubuntu
by ma_d on Tue 10th Jan 2006 04:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: CNR / Ubuntu"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

Often with these it's best to release the first fix release. Firefox is an exception though, as it has automatic update anyway.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: CNR / Ubuntu
by Windows Sucks on Tue 10th Jan 2006 04:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: CNR / Ubuntu"
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

Very true on both points.

Reply Score: 1

Linspire vs Ubuntu
by Hamman on Mon 9th Jan 2006 19:03 UTC
Hamman
Member since:
2006-01-02

I really don't see how the comparison of Linspire and Ubuntu is valid, as they have very different goals.
Ubuntu doesn't really want to make money, will only ship free software and doesn't really write desktop apps themselves. They're quite lacking in graphical configuration tools, too(to install the ati-drivers a user has to manually edit xorg.conf)
Linspire wants to make money, ships proprietairy apps and codecs, writes several of their apps themselves(such as lsongs), and there's a lot of configuration tools.
Linspire also have their own KDE-theme and iconset(called crystal clear) while ubuntu uses the stock Gnome icons and clearlooks(or whatever theme) with a brown colour scheme.
You also get support etc with linspire.
I might sound like a Linspire-fanboy, but I'm not. I do not even use it. However, claiming that there's no need for Linspire because of Ubuntu's existance is stupid.

Reply Score: 2

Michael_Valentine
Member since:
2005-07-22

It's all about stability. If you want the latest and greatest then Linspire is not for you. Neither is Debian Stable, just check and see how far it's behind Linspire! Linspire does a good job keeping apps up to date but they are not the latest and greatest out there.

Reply Score: 1

Michael_Valentine
Member since:
2005-07-22

It's all about stability. If you want the latest and greatest then Linspire is not for you. Neither is Debian Stable, just check and see how far it's behind Linspire! Linspire does a good job keeping apps up to date but they are not the latest and greatest out there.

Reply Score: 1

Linspire to aspire to be like Windows
by SlackerJack on Mon 9th Jan 2006 19:27 UTC
SlackerJack
Member since:
2005-11-12

It's no secret that Linspire/Lindows is pretty much a copy of Windows, pay for your software that people provide for free, pay for Linspire. Running as root issue is a big issue, and the people here who claim it's not simply don't understand why, yes Windows runs the equivalent as default.

Linux teaches users to learn about there OS rather then let it control them, unlike Windows Linux don't have parents looking over your shoulder to see if you delete files in root by accident. If people want to come to Linux, they come to learn it, even monkeys can learn, so I guess most Windows users are monkeys.

It's seems the only way for Linux to get desktop share on OEM computers is to be like Windows, rather than be itself to educate a user about there computer.

Reply Score: 0

Windows is apparently free.
by Googlesaurus on Mon 9th Jan 2006 19:58 UTC
Googlesaurus
Member since:
2005-10-19

Considering I can buy the same hardware with Windows XP pre-installed for less money. We should now consider the Windows-tax to be a broken theory.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Windows is apparently free.
by raver31 on Mon 9th Jan 2006 20:53 UTC in reply to "Windows is apparently free."
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

Nope, it is still a valid theory. You might indeed be able to get Windows XP pre-installed on a PC for less money, but to pay above the odds for something out of the ordinary is what manufacturers have been doing to us for years.

You don't want a radio/cassette in the ar ? You want a CD player instead ? No problem, it will be 300 extra.

Same thing, different product !

Reply Score: 1

Googlesaurus Member since:
2005-10-19

"Nope, it is still a valid theory. You might indeed be able to get Windows XP pre-installed on a PC for less money, but to pay above the odds for something out of the ordinary is what manufacturers have been doing to us for years."

So take your best shot at explaining why this system is overpriced for what they are selling....... Makes no sense to me.

Reply Score: 1

raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

best shot at explaining ?
no need.
people always pay more for a product if they think it is a "special edition", "limited edition", "rare", "hand-built"
basically, people, will pay for something that makes them different than the rest

Reply Score: 1

Sabon
Member since:
2005-07-06

Car sales didn't mushroom until the automatic transmission. As long as Windows users think that Linux users have to hand crank their configurations of Linux they will stay away from it.

The key value, what you pay for, with LinSpire is the "automatic transmission". You tell it what you want by clicking and it does it. That is worth $20 or more for people that use Windows.

If you don't need it, then go get a "car" with an engine you have hand crank. More power to you. Most people don't want that though. Notice the lack of cars that you have to hand crank the engine. Also noticed that cars with automatics (at least in the U.S.) out number those sold with manual gear boxes.

It isn't that they are lazy. It is that they have something BETTER to do with their time. They want to surf the web, white e-mails, and write documents. They DON'T want to spend their time configuring things so that they just work.

Reply Score: 1

"Immune to Spyware"
by Tobbe on Mon 9th Jan 2006 20:24 UTC
Tobbe
Member since:
2005-07-06

From Koobox "Linux? What is Linux?" section:

Linux is a computer operating system (OS) like Microsoft Windows or Apple OS X – only it's better. Better because it is...
- Free from viruses
- Immune to spyware
- Extremely stable
- Very affordable


"Immune to spyware" sounds like a claim I wouldn't want to make. The chances of getting nasty software installed that doesn't do what you thought it would do is significantly lesser in a Linux environment than in a Windows one, but "immune"? People can still rename nasty binaries to BritneyNudeRunMeNow, can't they?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Windows is apparently free.
by microshag on Mon 9th Jan 2006 21:30 UTC
microshag
Member since:
2005-11-30

If the Windows tax doesn't exist than I should be able to get an OEM machine with Windows stripped from it for a lower price, yes?

Reply Score: 2

Googlesaurus Member since:
2005-10-19

"If the Windows tax doesn't exist than I should be able to get an OEM machine with Windows stripped from it for a lower price, yes?"

A better question might be:
How does a system with a FREE OS come with a higher price tag than an identical system with XP installed?

Reply Score: 1

ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

It's Free, not free. It comes with a one year Linspire subscription, $40.
Now, I'm sure that costs them more like $10, or nothing; but then again do you think Dell pays Microsoft $83 for Windows XP Home? If so, I have a bridge I think you might be interested in ;) .

Also, I doubt Mirus sells a quarter the volume Dell does. Never doubt the value in selling higher quantities for cutting costs!

Reply Score: 1

Googlesaurus Member since:
2005-10-19

"It's Free, not free. It comes with a one year Linspire subscription, $40."

If that was an attempt to justify the cost of this system.... It ain't working for me. (and many others)

Reply Score: 1

CNR / Ubuntu
by djross95 on Mon 9th Jan 2006 22:29 UTC
djross95
Member since:
2006-01-09

FYI, the $99 Insider fee is completely optional, it provides access to internal betas and a lot of "Insider" discussion with the senior management of Linspire (something I give them credit for and you won't find too many other places). All "stable" releases are immediately available to everyone at no additional charge who pays the $50 per year CNR fee.

I agree that some apps take a while to appear in CNR (OO being one example), but I think that has as much to do with the crazy and ever-changing state of the Debian repositories than anything else.

Let me put it this way: I hosed my MEPIS system once installing an app from Debian stable; that has never happened with Linspire and CNR. And, lest you think I'm a Linspire fan-boy, I'm actually running PCLOS at the moment---a distro that should be getting this level of discussion on OSNews....... :-) DR

Reply Score: 1

CNR / Ubuntu
by Windows Sucks on Mon 9th Jan 2006 23:20 UTC
Windows Sucks
Member since:
2005-11-10

I have never had the problem of hosing a machine running Ubuntu when installing from the Ubuntu repositories because they (Like Linspire) have their own repositories and get software up pretty darn quick And they are not even making money. LOL!

Linspire only uses the Debian repositories as a place to draw from and then they modify the software for Linspire etc. The same thing that Ubuntu does (If they don't just compile it for themselves) Yet I am stillll waiting on Firefox 1.5 to be in CNR. LOL!

The problem with PCLOS (Which I am impressed with) needs to get rid of the word Preview in the title etc. It makes the OS no matter how good look like a toy. They need to come out with a 1.0 release as soon as they can if they want to really get the attention they deserve! :-)

Reply Score: 1

CNR / Ubuntu
by djross95 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 00:15 UTC
djross95
Member since:
2006-01-09

Windows Sucks, agree completely with your last comment on PCLOS. It's far more stable than Windows and many other Linux distros.....calling it Preview v. 0.92 doesn't do it justice.

Reply Score: 1

replies
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 00:39 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

But most "stable" releases are just bug fixes and the like, so you will rarely get the new version for that $50 for ONE year. Now if you keep paying and keep paying then you do but still that is $50 a year. How long was it from 4.0 to 4.5? 4.5 to 5.0?

You trashed mepis installing a package from debian. Well of course you did - so what? If you mix distro packages you will beak most any distro.

The reason you get discounted CNB products with CNR is because you already paid for CNR and on top of that are buying the product. It is like paying for a SAMs membership and then saving a dollar - you didn't save much. Plus like with StarOffice you are buying the LINSPIRE only version so of course it would be discounted wouldnt it. And if you do not keep CNR running then you are unable to register that software and use it.

If CNR is such a great idea why not just put it on a cd or two and sell it that way so people can always have their software? What happens if linspire goes out of business tommorrow, what do you have?

Running as root is bad! Not understanding how to setup other accounts is even worse. But a lot of stuff is broken when running as a user?

CNR might be a good idea if it worked well, but lots of problems with it. Old software, broken software, conflicting software... Linspire has shot itself in the foot by modifying and tweaking and mixing stuff so that adding any package is a chore to get dependencies worked out...

Linspire isn't bleeding edge but they arent stable either. Between the wireless problems, JACK problems, removing OCAML problems, GRUB problems, as well as SLOW as molasses.... When Linspire boots hit the esc key and look how many modules fail, how many things dont exist, how many files could not be found. THIS is considered stable. I dont know how a company releases something that obviously has some scripts out of place and missing stuff....

I could go on but I am running linspire and my browser keeps crashing.....

Reply Score: 1

more of me
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 01:01 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

There's no real advantage over apt-get when installing software if you don't care about one click installs or know how to add your own sources...

Boy I DO agree with that! And considering synaptic offers me two click installs it is just as easy. Setting up sources is as easy as running the apt-setup tool and telling it what to pull from. Of course you would know that if you had used it much. Also, how difficult is it to modify a text file? And I get to choose from stable, testing, or unstable pool what does linspire offer? And the stable is twice as stable as linspires and the unstable is twice as new...

Other linux(s) arent difficult either. Some are but most are easy cheesy! Do people still have problems with them, yes AND they have problems with Linspire as well...and windows... Everything is a problem because they refuse to learn or are unable. While Linspire can lessen this so can most linux(s) and still it will not be easy enough for most...

The PROBLEM is that Linspire claims to make this easy enough for anyone. Which leads to...
People believe them and they sit there and keep trying to get Linspire working correctly because this is suppose to be the EASY linux and they cannot even get this linux to run right if at all - so they give up and go back to windows.
Or they have sunk in a load of cash and figure if this is the GOOD paid version how bad and hard are those free versions.

Who the heck is MIRUS? The recommend XP on their home page. Their home page is ONE page, nothing else works or exists. This is a MAJOR OEM? What is their stock price? I can still buy a dell cheaper...

CNR repositiories ARE NOT fully tested, give me a break. At one time or another they may receive some testing but not ongoing...

Wanna see problems, head over to their forums. Just everday usage seems to cause enough problems and breakage.

Reply Score: 0

security updates
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 01:05 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

Lisnpire claims EVERYONE get security updates and they do just not from Lisnpire. If you are paid for the OS and did not pay for CNR and there is a flaw in package XYZ then you do not get a fix from linspire you are told you have to get the update in a non-supported way. So the OS you paid for last week, now has a isntall security fix in a non-supported way and if you contact support about some other problem they will just tell you that you broke your install by using a non-supported software install...

Reply Score: 1

uh
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 01:11 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

sounds like the same announcement for that other MAJOR OEM wintergreen ;) Sheesh they dont even manage to install modems that work of course considering a modem that worked in 4.0 did not in 4.5 and did in 5.0.59 and does not in the latest 5.0.347 is it any surprise...

Can any major OEM keep a Linspire box supported? Wireless cards that work, dont work, work again but cannot use the wireless GUI utility... sheesh...

Reply Score: 0

gpl
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 01:14 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

yes of course I HAD to bring up the gpl
Look on the CNR EXTRAS CD, do you see the GPL license on it? I dont either, yes there are GPL packages on that cd so I should of got the source code or the written offer. I didn't, did you?

Reply Score: 0

RE: gpl
by Morty on Tue 10th Jan 2006 02:08 UTC
Morty
Member since:
2005-07-06

Of course you HAD to lie and try to spread FUD.
You could have looked at the user agreement for that CD, or in the common-license directory or perhaps on the page describing the packages in CNR.

Another logical option could have been www.linspire.com/licensing
Or perhaps this nice presentation may explain it, most other people will actually 'get it' at some point during that. http://media.linspire.com/flash/GPL_Compliance.swf

Edited 2006-01-10 02:09

Reply Score: 1

uh
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 03:20 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

no lie...

There are GPL packages on the CNR extras CD, look for yourself! The GPL requires one of two things, the source code OR the written offer for the source code.

There is NOTHING to explain, NOTHING to questions, no excuses to offer....

Reply Score: 0

uh2
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 03:27 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

easy to say... i dont see the benefits of linspire over ubuntu. Linux for the most part is linux, most of them are fairly easy... Most of them provide CDs of software so even if they go out of business you still have something. Most of them dont expect you to pay and pay and pay. I mean 4.0 is not lobger supportted by CNR so you paid for the OS you paid for a few years of CNR to install stuff and use it and now either you keep paying or you have nothing. Or you have to use a different linux, which you could of just done in the first place.

See, i dont see the benefits of Linspire when you weigh the pros and the cons....

Reply Score: 1

Re: uh2
by Michael_Valentine on Tue 10th Jan 2006 03:38 UTC
Michael_Valentine
Member since:
2005-07-22

(quote)See, i dont see the benefits of Linspire when you weigh the pros and the cons....(end of quote)

Then don't use it! Use what work for you or makes you happy! Someone has an Ax to grind it appears. There are many great Linux Distros available, some free some not...but who cares as long as it's not Windows. I just don't get it with guys like you.

Reply Score: 1

dont get it
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 03:51 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

What dont you get. If there was a story about walmart and people pointed out the good stuff would you also be upset that someone pointed out that walmarts contracted cleaning company has illegal immigrants working for them?

Must we only post our positive experiences. Should we not hear both sides of the issue?

Reply Score: 0

RE: uh
by Morty on Tue 10th Jan 2006 04:00 UTC
Morty
Member since:
2005-07-06

no lie...

There is NOTHING to explain, NOTHING to questions, no excuses to offer....


And how did you mange to obtain that CD without clicking through the the user agreement? Where said GPL are explained.

Edited 2006-01-10 04:00

Reply Score: 1

well
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 04:09 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

Uh, i hold the cd in my hand. It came with my boxed edition. I decided not to use linspire. I decide to look at the cd. I see GPL packages. I do NOT see the GPL license, I do NOT see the source code, I do NOT see the written offer for the source code. Second, how do you think explaining the GPL somehow gets them out of the requirement of either including source code OR including a written offer for source code? I do NOT see 'explain the gpl' as one of the options in there do you?

Cool, So does teh user agreement include a copy of the GPL, does it also qualify as the written offer? As in, does the user agreement tell you where and how you can obtain the source by mail? Would love to know...

Reply Score: 1

what? can't use my iTunes? dood!
by Robocoastie on Tue 10th Jan 2006 04:31 UTC
Robocoastie
Member since:
2005-09-15

Once people realize they can't use iTunes on it they'll feel cheated. Like it or not (and for the record I don't like it) DRM is here to stay and its only a matter of time before the hard cd's in stores are just computer data cd's with a licence code to enter which makes them DRM - death of the normal cd iow just like the cassette tape, 8-trac, vinyl etc...

If Linspire hopes to keep pushing as a viable alternative (aside from getting it to install proper kernels for ones hardware which it doesn't currently do) they need to cut a deal with Apple and MSFT for their DRM they have got to get Apple to make a version of iTunes for *nix.

Reply Score: 1

LinspireMan Member since:
2006-01-10

Who cares about iTunes! The quality of the files is substandard IMO. I get much better results if I go buy an audio CD online and make my own OGG files at 500 Kbps. Sounds just as good as the CDs too! ;)

Reply Score: 1

ok
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 05:48 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

"I had enough of the proprietary train ride"
so you switched to linspire? You got the hook dug deeper now than with windows. Linspire controls both the OS and all the applications... how much more proprietary can you get?

Reply Score: 1

RE: ok
by LinspireMan on Tue 10th Jan 2006 06:01 UTC in reply to "ok"
LinspireMan Member since:
2006-01-10

Yes, CNR (click and run) is a Linspire-proprietary application. What is your point? I GOT TIRED OF PAYING HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS EVERY TIME MAC OS X IS UPDATED, OR WHEN A NEW VERSION OF A WINDOWS PROGRAM COMES OUT. I am sure many other people that switched to Linspire Five-O, feel exactly the same as I do.

Almost all of the 2400+ applications in CNR are FREE. The fee you pay is for Linspire to package the files properly and take care of the dependencies for you. For the CNR Basic service, $19.95 per year is nothing. You make it sound like no one can afford to spend $20. ;) This is optional: If you want free OS upgrades, then you can opt for the CNR Gold Service at $49.95 per year. The Linspire Insider Program is a one-time charge of $99, and you get access to beta versions of Linspire, and other software before it hits the main CNR Warehouse. Hence, the word "optional."

CNR is beautiful IMHO... One click to install, and then run. Too bloody easy! Even my technologically-challenged mother finds Linspire easy to use. CNR is an awesome application, and many other Linux distributions are just so insanely jealous that they don't have it.

I don't have time in my life to waste hours, days, weeks to get Linux to run nicely. It already does with Linspire Five-O.

With Cedega PointPlay, all of my Valve software, especially Day of Defeat and Day of Defeat: Source run better on Linspire Five-O than Windows XP. Handle: Sgt. Rhodes (LinspireMan) on Frenchy's Pit. ;)

Edited 2006-01-10 06:08

Reply Score: 1

uh
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 08:07 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

"CNR is an awesome application, and many other Linux distributions are just so insanely jealous that they don't have it. "

Oh yea..... yea.... you have made my day! All you people who have created synaptic, gnome, kde, those who manage openoffice.org, dia, beagle, and othr great stuff - bow down to the almight CNR.

Dude if we wanted a open source CNR then we would have one. No one WANTS it! No one is jealous! We have synaptic and other clicky software installers AND we actually get to have our software instead of a subscription....

Keep paying, paying, paying cause I think you will find nobody else will keep doing it. I will have to commend MR since his hatred for MS gave him enough motivation to outdo bill. I mean I can still install win98 and all the apps I have for it. Can you do the same for 4.0? Nope...

Reply Score: 1

RE: uh
by LinspireMan on Tue 10th Jan 2006 08:36 UTC in reply to "uh"
LinspireMan Member since:
2006-01-10

You are missing the point of CNR (click and run) completely.

Not every new Linux user cares about the technical end of things when it comes to installing software on various Linux distributions. This is the target market of Linspire Five-O, and Linspire accomplishes this quite well IMO. CNR makes life simple for people that have work to do today, not postpone it for hours, days, or weeks. Remember the old acronym? KISS. ;)

The beauty of the Linux world is that there are many other distributions for you to try and use. Use whatever you want, but stop saying that no one wants CNR. You do not speak for me. I do want CNR and so do many other people. I switched from Mac OS X and Windows XP because I am sick and tired of shelling out my hard earned money for nothing. Also, I tried SuSE 9.3, 10 and Kubuntu - I don't like either of them - my choice. God bless America! ;)

BTW, you can use Synaptic, etc. on Linspire too. You don't ever have to use the CNR Service if you really don't want to. You have the freedom, man! LOL

Regarding Windows 98... You still use that unstable and ugly OS? Sheesh! Talk about circa 1990-whatever (in a California valley girl voice). Get into the 21st century, my friend! You really don't think apps don't break in the Windows or Macintosh worlds? You have a lot to learn about OS upgrades. Go look at how many apps broke when Apple released Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger). Too many to count! A lot of my apps broke from 10.3 (Panther), and that was the final straw for me.

Edited 2006-01-10 08:41

Reply Score: 1

uh
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 13:10 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

btw-when you tell someone they are missing the point it is often a good idea to think twice and make usre you arent the one missing it...

I didn't speak for you. You spoke for you. I spoke for me. I spoke for a lot of othr distros that would not think about a CNR tool.

See YOU missed my point.
"Not every new Linux user cares about the technical end of things when it comes to installing software on various Linux distributions"
As I said in one of my posts, they lied! They told you THEY are the easy ones yet newbies use and figure out mandrake every single day. Xandros every single day. Heck knoppix every single day. It is NOT technical or difficult to install software on linux anymore. Understand it isn't windows and you do not just grab a package from just anywhere you grab it from your distro and most all the time it is going to work. How is that difficult or technical. Install Mandrake, use Mandrake packages.....hello...

IF CNR worked perfectly then I could at least see the point but it is nowhere near it. Why pay for something that doesnt even work as well as the non-pay for somethings? CNR does not handle dependencies that well. How many times have you seen problem posts at the forum and people still have to run apt-get --fix-missing or dpkg -f ? AS I said

"Synaptic, etc. on Linspire too"
yea and it tries to fix all the tweaking and mixed packages on a linspire system and ends up removing everything that IS linspire!

Yea 98 is ugly but at least it is a whole OS that I can use and install apps on without breaking it today, nexxt year and so forth. Same goes for debian woody, mandrake 10.1, and so forth. I actually HAVE something. The only thing someone running 4.0 has is a upgrade in their future...

Reply Score: 1

gplCop318
by Michael_Valentine on Tue 10th Jan 2006 14:23 UTC
Michael_Valentine
Member since:
2005-07-22

Your right, all Linspire users are wrong. Hope this makes you happy! Some people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply Score: 1

yep
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 14:32 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

some people....
Did I say you were wrong... All I said is both sides should be fairly presented.

Do a story about debian and see how many people post about long release times, I bet even you would say something about it. But that is a somewhat fair criticism since woody took a while and sarge was wayyy overdue. Another fair criticism is that stable contains older software that some may not be happy with. See, fair criticism.

That is all I offer about Linspire. Just you and others prefer to villify me and accuse me of lying and making things up and calling me troll. You never counter what I say only proceed to attack me and try to discredit my character and not my arguement...

PLEASE - show me the written offer of source code contained on the EXTRAS cd? PROVE me wrong instead of just calling me a troll. Waiting.... with baited troll breath...

Reply Score: 0

more
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 14:38 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

Show me a perfect CNR then I will gladly concede that it is better than any alternative, especially the free package managers.

You keep saying it is better. That is is worth the cost. That it is the service that makes Linspire special. Tell us about this last CNR upgrade and how it went... No need to tell us, we can all head over to the forums and see for ourselves. Oh yea, go ahead and tell us how it was fixed and all you had to do was remove, download, install update etc... Wait how does that make it BETTER? What because they FIXED it, that makes it better especially considering that you have to pay for this?

Reply Score: 1

RE: more
by Michael_Valentine on Tue 10th Jan 2006 17:30 UTC in reply to "more"
Michael_Valentine Member since:
2005-07-22

Nothing is perfect, neither CNR, Synaptic or whatever floats your bowl. Use what fits your bill, makes you happy or whatever other category. No one has called you a Troll, but you should not critizise someones choice of Distro because YOU don't like it! That's your choice and you made it. Again nothing is perfect...that's the key word! I'm done! Peace and out!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Reply Score: 1

Cool
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 20:04 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

EXACTLY! nothing is perfect so why pay for something not perfect when there are other not perfects that are free in both sense of the word? Ok, please dont criticise my XP when you see a article on it.... Thats right OSNEWS nothing critical is to be said about ANYTHING so only nice cheerleader posts for everything....

Reply Score: 1

cnr is not
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 21:46 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

FULLY TESTED... CNR is nowhere near FULLY tested... Who are you kidding? Go look in the CNR section of linspire forums if you think ANYTHING about CNR is fully tested. As I said, nothing is perfect and that includes CNR. If CNR was fully tested, supportted and worked as wella s they claim then I will reconsider it being worth the money.

Reply Score: 1

tested
by gplCop318 on Tue 10th Jan 2006 21:55 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10
tested and supported huh?
by gplCop318 on Wed 11th Jan 2006 02:24 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

Guess you missed this Linspire quote
"Note: Each individual Publisher decides on their support policy. Linspire.com does not provide support for products listed in the CNR Warehouse."

Reply Score: 1

here is a good SUPPORT thread
by gplCop318 on Wed 11th Jan 2006 02:25 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10
yea
by gplCop318 on Sat 14th Jan 2006 04:16 UTC
gplCop318
Member since:
2006-01-10

linspire just sucks....

Reply Score: 1