Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 17th Jan 2006 14:23 UTC
General Development "Perl 6 is the long-awaited redesign and reimplementation of the popular and venerable Perl programming language. It's not out yet - nor is there an official release date - but the design and implementations make continual progress. Innumerable programmers, hackers, system administrators, hobbyists, and dabblers write Perl 5 quite successfully. The language doesn't have the marketing budget of large consulting companies, hardware manufacturers, or tool vendors pushing it, yet people still use it to get their jobs done. Why argue with that success? Why redesign a language that's working for so many people and in so many domains? Sure, Perl 5 has some warts, but it does a lot of things very well."
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Everybody imitates it
by Sphinx on Tue 17th Jan 2006 16:17 UTC
Sphinx
Member since:
2005-07-09

But nobody does it better with more whipitupitude, can't wait. Getting it right is far more important than getting it when.

Reply Score: 1

Actually, parrot is as important
by smitty_one_each on Tue 17th Jan 2006 16:52 UTC in reply to "Everybody imitates it"
smitty_one_each Member since:
2005-07-07

Not right away, but, eventually, the register-based VM may sink the JVM and .Net.
Go, FOSS!

Reply Score: 0

RE: Everybody imitates it
by youknowmewell on Tue 17th Jan 2006 21:18 UTC in reply to "Everybody imitates it"
youknowmewell Member since:
2005-07-08

Lisp got everything Perl 6 got right, only decades earlier. And Lisp does a better job at what it does, especially keeping the syntax out of the way. Looking at the slashdot comments about Perl 6 nearly made me faint. How do you put up with all that?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Everybody imitates it
by sappyvcv on Tue 17th Jan 2006 22:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Everybody imitates it"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Sorry, but some people can't stand seeing ( and ) all over the place.

While LISP has the features, most find it quite ugly and hard to follow (harder than Perl).

Besides, what's wrong with Perl6 doing all this stuff? LISP did some of it first. So what? Perl6 is not LISP, very clearly.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Everybody imitates it
by Sphinx on Wed 18th Jan 2006 01:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Everybody imitates it"
Sphinx Member since:
2005-07-09

I quit reading slashdot.

Reply Score: 2

we have moved on
by theGrump on Tue 17th Jan 2006 17:21 UTC
theGrump
Member since:
2005-11-11

perl6 has been about promise but little else. i have been following development of this project for some time as an observer. the absence of many longtime core perl luminaries from this project is troubling - the "new generation" who signed on to make this project happen have not been able to deliver, and appear not to care. i have watched annoying bickering on lists, name-calling, people being jerks, and in the background, almost no progress. so much of perl6 will be new that no one is going to commit to the full stack until there has been a serious bake-in period, and even a full 1.0 release is at least two years away.

in the meantime ruby is delivering on most of the promises of perl6 at the language level, even if its performance is not great. these problems would not be solved by parrot in any case - the perl6 team is being hopelessly naive about the premise that one VM can accelerate all languages.

Reply Score: 2

RE: we have moved on
by psilo on Wed 18th Jan 2006 00:39 UTC in reply to "we have moved on"
psilo Member since:
2005-09-26

Parrot VM might not be able to accelerate all languages, but being able to mix different libraries from different languages will be a more important feature.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: we have moved on
by theGrump on Wed 18th Jan 2006 05:52 UTC in reply to "RE: we have moved on"
theGrump Member since:
2005-11-11

>> being able to mix different libraries from different languages will be a more important feature.

how????? you are presume that these languages type the same way, have the same call semantics, return types etc etc etc...even if this can be abstracted in the vm, it makes no sense at the language level. this is but one pipe dream of the parrot team, and it is why eventually they will give up and just use pugs or get parrot to do all it is ever tasked with doing - run perl6.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: we have moved on
by Get a Life on Wed 18th Jan 2006 08:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: we have moved on"
Get a Life Member since:
2006-01-01

If the Perl developers introduce a Haskell compiler as a dependency for building Perl, I will be thoroughly surprised.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: we have moved on
by johndaly on Wed 18th Jan 2006 10:33 UTC in reply to "RE: we have moved on"
johndaly Member since:
2006-01-16

Lot's of useful CPython libs are written partially in C (like numeric python, pygame and so on); they rely heavily on CPython features and are absolutely not portable. There is no way you can get those libs to run on Parrot without a full rewrite, the Python community isn't going to do that and if somebody in the Perl community has to do it why not do it in Perl?

The same should hold true for other major languages like Ruby.

Reply Score: 1

RE: we have moved on
by massa on Tue 17th Jan 2006 18:16 UTC
massa
Member since:
2005-08-22

You have not used pugs, then...
Really.
Ruby is a nice language (I am using it at work right now) but perl6/pugs does deliver more, already. Now if only I had the time to put pugs on rails... :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: we have moved on
by theGrump on Tue 17th Jan 2006 19:21 UTC in reply to "RE: we have moved on"
theGrump Member since:
2005-11-11

i have been using pugs since its first release. yes it is nice but pugs != perl6. the more time they spend on this platform, the less time they are spending developing the platform they actually intend to release.

my prediction is that within a year they will see this and simply make pugs their release code, realizing that the very small group of people who still care abou perl6 will just make due with it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: we have moved on
by sappyvcv on Tue 17th Jan 2006 20:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: we have moved on"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

They won't do that, it's simply too slow.

Besides, they ARE making progress, it's just kind of slow.

Reply Score: 0

I don't understand where Perl is going.
by Treza on Wed 18th Jan 2006 11:14 UTC
Treza
Member since:
2006-01-11

* Either they should enhance Perl5 in a compatible way : Faster, better libraries...
* Either the creators of Perl realize that Perl is becoming obsolete, comparing with Python & Ruby, and a new language could be created from ground up for fun and profit. Perl 6 introduces such dramatic changes that one wonders why don't they fully abandon the Perl syntax ( and its syntaxic noise ... )

The goals behind Parrot seems equally strange. The idea that a register based VM could change significantly the performance seems naive when modern VMs use JIT compilers and adapts to the real number of the host CPU's registers. That VM is also too low level to permit advanced optimisations ( see LLVM ... ).

Reply Score: 1