Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 17th Jan 2006 22:10 UTC, submitted by James Dickens
Oracle and SUN Someone has found the manual to Sun's Ultra 40 - which hasn't even been announced yet. The machine clearly is the bigger brother of the Ultra 20. It apparently sports two AMD Opteron processors (single or dualcore; 2.0Ghz or faster; 1MB cache), eight PC3200 DIMM slots (2GB per DIMM), and more. It will come pre-loaded with Solaris 10 (obviously) but RedHat/SUSE Linux Enterprise/Windows are also supported, in both 32bit and 64bit.
Order by: Score:
Sun is even busier
by jamesd on Tue 17th Jan 2006 23:27 UTC
jamesd
Member since:
2006-01-17

According to the person's http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2006/01/suns-marketing-out-to-confuse-wo... , Sun also intends to release a Ultra 45 model, though it will be a SPARC machine.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Sun is even busier
by segedunum on Wed 18th Jan 2006 12:08 UTC in reply to "Sun is even busier"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

According to the person's http://uadmin.blogspot.com/, Sun also intends to release a Ultra 45 model, though it will be a SPARC machine.

Confusing or what, eh? It looks like Sun are doing what they usually do - apparently committing to something that is obviously the way forwards and then going back to SPARC, again, and confusing everyone. SPARC is a server, and a higher-end one at that, processor and has no place on a workstation in this day and age. It simply increases the support costs and plays havoc with those who are using binaries on different machines.......

Really, if they're actually going to continue to sell SPARC machines then there was no point in running any of their workstations on Opterons. It just seems as if Sun want to muddy the waters to me.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Sun is even busier
by jamesd on Wed 18th Jan 2006 12:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Sun is even busier"
jamesd Member since:
2006-01-17

SPARC has a purpose even on the desktop, it gives you a way to test and code programs for the servers, anything from a simple 1cpu 1U server to the large servers with over 140 cores, yes you can run the same code on them all so there is a reason for a SPARC desktop.

The complaint is about the naming, that causes confusion with the consumers. If a brand new, ultra 40 is an opteron most people would think that an ultra 45 is related, they should of kept to there current naming of calling SPARC workstations blade. as in the blade 2500.

And if you want to see another reason for having sparc hardware check out the new T1 chip in the T1000 and T2000 servers, 1 RU and 2RU packages, that use less watts, and are faster than intel and amd chips at specific server tasks.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Sun is even busier
by segedunum on Wed 18th Jan 2006 13:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sun is even busier"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

yes you can run the same code on them all so there is a reason for a SPARC desktop.

You don't need to muddy your desktop line to do that.

If a brand new, ultra 40 is an opteron most people would think that an ultra 45 is related, they should of kept to there current naming of calling SPARC workstations blade.

Rule 1: Always work out what you're selling and where. Sell SPARC workstations everywhere if that's what you want.

T1 chip in the T1000 and T2000 servers, 1 RU and 2RU packages, that use less watts, and are faster than intel and amd chips at specific server tasks.

So what are the running any of their stuff on Opterons for if SPARC is that good? And don't say 'to run Windows' or 'to run Red Hat' because that simply doesn't make any sense.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Sun is even busier
by Phillip.Fayers on Wed 18th Jan 2006 17:20 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sun is even busier"
Phillip.Fayers Member since:
2005-12-14

So what are the running any of their stuff on Opterons for if SPARC is that good? And don't say 'to run Windows' or 'to run Red Hat' because that simply doesn't make any sense.

Because they are giving the customers what they have been asking for?

Because if they sell Opterons as well as SPARC they sell more machines and make more money?

Because the different CPUs have different strengths and are useful in different situations?

Because you want to be able to run Windows and Redhat and Solaris all on the same box?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Sun is even busier
by segedunum on Wed 18th Jan 2006 17:57 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Sun is even busier"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Because they are giving the customers what they have been asking for?

Customers aren't asking for it. You give your customers a line of workstations (or servers) that are clear and related to each other. You don't muck about by offering what 'you think' customers want because you really want them to be using SPARC.

Because if they sell Opterons as well as SPARC they sell more machines and make more money?

In what way? What makes Opterons outsell SPARC? And if it's outselling SPARC then sell Opterons exclusively. It's obviously a selling point. All you've told me there is that Opterons outsell SPARC.

Because the different CPUs have different strengths and are useful in different situations?

Not on workstations, as I've pointed out. SPARC is a high-end processor, and that's its only domain now. If Sun want to sell it as a workstation and convince customers then they need to make it clear to customers what they are selling. If customers are scratching their heads about what you sell, and you are confusing them with talk about 'choice' and the non-existent 'different strengths', then they simply go elsewhere.

Because you want to be able to run Windows and Redhat and Solaris all on the same box?

That's a selling point for selling Opterons (and a weak one at that considering Sun want you to use Solaris), so what's the point of SPARC?

Look, we all know that Sun don't really want to sell anything that doesn't have SPARC in it, so they've got one of two options. Commit totally to what is actually selling (Opterons), or make SPARC an actual viable option on workstations, or many servers, and stick with it. The market has spoken on that front, and that is 'what customers want'.

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: Sun is even busier
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 18th Jan 2006 18:09 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Sun is even busier"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Customers aren't asking for it. You give your customers a line of workstations (or servers) that are clear and related to each other. You don't muck about by offering what 'you think' customers want because you really want them to be using SPARC.

Don't talk nonsense. Just skim the threads here when the Ultra 20 got released-- many people were asking for a SPARC-based workstation from Sun, simply because many, including myself, have a SPARC workstation that badly needs replacing (my aging Ultra 5). Now, for what do I use an UltraSPARC? Reliability. I want UltraSPARC workstations from Sun because they do not die. They do not break. They are as solid as a rock.

Of course Sun wants to sell SPARC machines. But do you really think they would go through ALL the trouble of setting up, designing (they even hired a world-famous server designer to design Opteron servers), multiple Opteron product lines, JUST, to, after months and months, release one SPARC line of workstations?

Go fool yourself, Segedendum. The rest of us ain't buying it.

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: Sun is even busier
by rhavyn on Wed 18th Jan 2006 22:03 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Sun is even busier"
rhavyn Member since:
2005-07-06

Don't talk nonsense. Just skim the threads here when the Ultra 20 got released-- many people were asking for a SPARC-based workstation from Sun, simply because many, including myself, have a SPARC workstation that badly needs replacing (my aging Ultra 5). Now, for what do I use an UltraSPARC? Reliability. I want UltraSPARC workstations from Sun because they do not die. They do not break. They are as solid as a rock.

So are you saying that Sun's Opteron systems aren't solid as a rock? Because if it's not that then it sounds like your just like the poor MIPS guys who wish they could go back to the good old days when people cared about MIPS and SGI. And if it is that they aren't solid as a rock, why is anyone encouraging people to buy shoddy Opteron hardware from Sun?

Of course Sun wants to sell SPARC machines. But do you really think they would go through ALL the trouble of setting up, designing (they even hired a world-famous server designer to design Opteron servers), multiple Opteron product lines, JUST, to, after months and months, release one SPARC line of workstations?

You make it sound like Sun isn't completely schizo. After watching them for the past 5 years, however, I could completely believe that they'd do backflips to sell Opterons today and then stop selling them and go all Sparc tomorrow. And then three months later recant and sell Opterons again but have their executives bad mouth Opterons every time they speak. That's entirely consistent with their Solaris x86 strategy, their Linux strategy and their support for open source. Why not make it their hardware strategy too?

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Sun is even busier
by segedunum on Wed 18th Jan 2006 22:41 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Sun is even busier"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

SPARC-based workstation from Sun, simply because many, including myself, have a SPARC workstation that badly needs replacing (my aging Ultra 5). Now, for what do I use an UltraSPARC?

And how many of you are there?

I want UltraSPARC workstations from Sun because they do not die. They do not break. They are as solid as a rock.

Good for you. The vast majority of Sun's new customers do not now buy SPARC though.

But do you really think they would go through ALL the trouble of setting up, designing

Done it before.

Go fool yourself, Segedendum. The rest of us ain't buying it.

It's alright. I know you don't understand this, and neither do Sun.

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: Sun is even busier
by Phillip.Fayers on Wed 18th Jan 2006 18:09 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Sun is even busier"
Phillip.Fayers Member since:
2005-12-14

Look, we all know that Sun don't really want to sell anything that doesn't have SPARC in it,

They bought a company that designed Opteron servers then proceeded to sell them at a market competitive price. They negotiated with AMD to get a special Sun version of the AMD CPUs manufactured. Sounds like a company who wants to sell something which isn't SPARC.

so they've got one of two options. Commit totally to what is actually selling (Opterons), or make SPARC an actual viable option on workstations, or many servers, and stick with it.

Or option 3. Sell Opteron and SPARC systems, with both being viable options.

The market has spoken on that front, and that is 'what customers want'.

I think the market is speaking by buying both SPARC and Opteron systems from Sun.

Sun may be looking to dump SPARC altogether, but I doubt it. Even if they were they wouldn't do it until Opteron (or some other chip) could replace their high end servers which won't happen for some time.

I lament the almost lack of decent, cheap SPARC workstations from Sun, I think it harms their business becuase people grow up with Linux on x86 instead. Sun have, finally, decided that they ought to be making some money from the huge x86 market. I'm glad they did.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Sun is even busier
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 18th Jan 2006 18:11 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Sun is even busier"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Sun may be looking to dump SPARC altogether, but I doubt it. Even if they were they wouldn't do it until Opteron (or some other chip) could replace their high end servers which won't happen for some time.

They won't for at least another ten years. They just released the Niagara 8-core SPARC chips, and Niagara II is in the pipeline and due early 2007.

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: Sun is even busier
by segedunum on Wed 18th Jan 2006 22:44 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Sun is even busier"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

They negotiated with AMD to get a special Sun version of the AMD CPUs manufactured. Sounds like a company who wants to sell something which isn't SPARC.

It's happened before.

Or option 3. Sell Opteron and SPARC systems, with both being viable options.

There is no option 3. Customers want to know what you're selling.

I think the market is speaking by buying both SPARC and Opteron systems from Sun.

They are not buying both SPARC and Opteron. Just about all of Sun's new customers, where the new business is to be found, buy Opteron.

I lament the almost lack of decent, cheap SPARC workstations from Sun

That's exactly what they should have done.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Sun is even busier
by bullethead on Thu 19th Jan 2006 01:39 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sun is even busier"
bullethead Member since:
2005-07-10

"So what are the running any of their stuff on Opterons for if SPARC is that good? And don't say 'to run Windows' or 'to run Red Hat' because that simply doesn't make any sense."

Sorry to tell you, but that makes absolutely real sense.

Windows and RHEL WS work perfectly, and on hardware that is designed between AMD and the Sun engineers. I am getting an Ultra 20 (Dual Core) next year when Vista comes out. And I will have both Red Hat and Microsoft operating systems on it.

SPARC is good for Solaris, no doubt.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Sun is even busier
by JonAnderson on Wed 18th Jan 2006 17:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Sun is even busier"
JonAnderson Member since:
2005-07-06

It's not confusing at all. Sun sell workstations which
are SPARC or Opteron based. You buy whay you need. Your
statments are nothing more than negative spin. I mean,
most people by computers to run something called
software. This tends to have a bearing on the type of
hardware that you want to run.

Reply Score: 1

Mathmagical Sun
by s_groening on Tue 17th Jan 2006 23:49 UTC
s_groening
Member since:
2005-12-13

....How can 8 RAM slots capable of holding up to 2 GB DIMMs each suddently hold 32 GB, as Sun and our blogger claims??

...Just wondering ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Mathmagical Sun
by jamesd on Tue 17th Jan 2006 23:55 UTC in reply to "Mathmagical Sun"
jamesd Member since:
2006-01-17

probably because at the moment, 4GB dimms have not be released yet, so Sun use the lower number of 16GB, but still hint that the motherboard and chipset can support more.

Reply Score: 4

ball park prices
by JPDrawneek on Wed 18th Jan 2006 00:26 UTC
JPDrawneek
Member since:
2006-01-18

Found this:

http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/government/florida/Gov/82.h...

and got this:
A71-NPB2-AD-4GB-DR $5,395 E Ultra 40 - 254, 4GB, FX1400 New

A71-NWB1-AJ-1GB-DR $2,295 E Ultra 40 - 246, 1GB, NVS285 New

A71-PFB2-AK-8GB-DS $7,795 E Ultra 40 - 280, 8GB, FX3450 New

Time to harse some VAR!!!

Reply Score: 2

RE: ball park prices
by Sphinx on Wed 18th Jan 2006 00:48 UTC in reply to "ball park prices"
Sphinx Member since:
2005-07-09

overlooked this entry:

A71 $0 E Sun Ultra 40 XATO Model New

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: ball park prices
by JPDrawneek on Wed 18th Jan 2006 23:31 UTC in reply to "RE: ball park prices"
JPDrawneek Member since:
2006-01-18

Not really I just posted the prices closest to being true

Reply Score: 1

RE: ball park prices
by Phillip.Fayers on Wed 18th Jan 2006 00:51 UTC in reply to "ball park prices"
Phillip.Fayers Member since:
2005-12-14

Look a few lines above the Ultra 40 prices and you'll see the Ultra 45 prices as well.

A little digging around using Ultra 45 as a start also turned up Sun Fire V215 and Sun Fire V445 as new machine names.

--
Phillip Fayers http://phillipfayers.blogspot.com/

Reply Score: 1

Pull the other one
by Sphinx on Wed 18th Jan 2006 00:45 UTC
Sphinx
Member since:
2005-07-09

OR it's a complete fake. The sections on the diagnostic partition are just laugh out loud funny stuff.

Reply Score: 0

v Big brother
by TaterSalad on Tue 17th Jan 2006 20:45 UTC
Food for thought:
by lemmy on Wed 18th Jan 2006 06:57 UTC
lemmy
Member since:
2005-07-10

So this is a pc clone, albeit with rather nice specs.

Now, why should I buy a dual opteron box for $(huge) from sun, when i can basically build a quad opteron box for less?

Because the sun box runs hardware that solaris/x86 is certified for? Ok, if i really need solaris/x86.

Why do I need Solaris? Because i have some legacy apps in my company that run on solaris and have been awfully expensive... But wait, they all run on solaris/sparc...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Food for thought:
by Matzon on Wed 18th Jan 2006 07:21 UTC in reply to "Food for thought:"
Matzon Member since:
2005-07-06

Why do we buy computers from Dell, when we can build a cheaper one ourselves? Because time is of value and we want better quality than you (typically) get from building a box yourself.

Please dont think that a sun box featuring opterons means that the whole box is somehow made up of mediocre components. This isn't the case.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Food for thought:
by kaiwai on Wed 18th Jan 2006 16:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Food for thought:"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

You can make a cheaper computer than Dell? I"d love to see that - because everytime I've looked at both sides of the equation, the home built kit aways ends up turning out to be atleast a few hundred dollars more than the equally spec'ed out Dell.

Btw, I do think the default is a dual core - but the option is give I guess as not all need or what the power that a quad core could bring, and the licencing mess that follows it as well.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Food for thought:
by jamesd on Wed 18th Jan 2006 07:39 UTC in reply to "Food for thought:"
jamesd Member since:
2006-01-17

perhaps, you are running a business, and perfer to have someone there to maintain your systems, how cheap are those white boxes when you have to put a fleet a techs just to argue with the OEMs that they should replace the component and begging for RMA's. With Sun when you have problem, call sun they say send us the broken parts, your replacements are in the mail. And of course the parts are high quality. You can also upgrade to platnium support, and sun will be knocking on your door in less than 4 hours, there goal is 2 hours, asking to see the machine and repair it.

BTW most of those cheap white boxes dont have 8 dimm slots or 2x pci-e 16x slots. neither do they have 4x plug in play sata hotswap drives, no screws, release a lever, pull out old drives, push in new drive.

you get what you pay for.

Reply Score: 4

Sun can drop prices for the Ultra20?
by ibantxuyn on Wed 18th Jan 2006 10:06 UTC
ibantxuyn
Member since:
2005-08-27

Yeah, I can buy a Ultra20 for lower price when Sun starts to sell this machines :-) The Ultra 20 supports dualcore too, it's a great machine to multiboot environments such as Linux/Solaris/Windows

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Food for thought:
by lemmy on Wed 18th Jan 2006 12:26 UTC
lemmy
Member since:
2005-07-10

of course... but even with that in mind, i can get a box with more or less the same specs for less, and from a big brandname vendor, with support and all...

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Food for thought:
by dagw on Wed 18th Jan 2006 18:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Food for thought:"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

I seriously doubt it, not signifigantly less at any rate. I'd love for you to prove me wrong, but I doubt it will happen. Unlike in the past Suns new AMD based line are very price competative no matter who you compare against.

Reply Score: 2

Opteron VS Athlon
by Haicube on Wed 18th Jan 2006 14:13 UTC
Haicube
Member since:
2005-08-06

Is there anyone who has any good benchmarks comparing Opteron machines with the regular AMD64 (athlons I believe)?

I know clockspeed ain't of the essence, but just for the sake of comparison, how fast is a Opteron 2ghz vs a 64bit Athlon 3800+ ???

Reply Score: 1

RE: Opteron VS Athlon
by Wes Felter on Wed 18th Jan 2006 17:21 UTC in reply to "Opteron VS Athlon"
Wes Felter Member since:
2005-11-15

Opteron and Athlon 64 are the same processor; some models have different amounts of cache.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Sun is even busier
by aliquis on Wed 18th Jan 2006 14:31 UTC
aliquis
Member since:
2005-07-23

"So what are the running any of their stuff on Opterons for if SPARC is that good? And don't say 'to run Windows' or 'to run Red Hat' because that simply doesn't make any sense."

FPU intensive tasks?

Reply Score: 1

Why buy SPARC?
by Rcoles on Wed 18th Jan 2006 22:44 UTC
Rcoles
Member since:
2006-01-18

It seems a lot of ppl here are posting with opinions that don't seem to consider the situation of others.
I work for in a large corporate we are heavy users of Sparc/Solaris and HP-Compaq/Suse Linux in our datacenters.

Although the cost of hardware is significant it deprecates over 3 years, the far bigger cost is that of SA's admin time and datacenter changes (including items such as power, networking, tape libraries e.t.c.), something we are billed at a rate of approximately 15,000 USD per year per 4U unix server.

So to develop and test software, instead of incurring this large datacenter charge we tend to use Sun SPARC deskside systems (current we have a handful of SunBlade 150s, but it is only a matter of the complexity of software outgrows the memory/CPU available and we will need to upgrade to something new )

So there is certainly going to be at least one customer continuing to want Sun SPARC workstations.

The 2nd item I've seen posted a few times is why anyone would consider buying a Sun x86 box, when you can get a DELL for a cheaper price. Well I for one I certainly considering doing so !
Not for work, but for home, I currently run Dell Precision 450 at home in a dualboot Linux/Windows configuration. But this is really because this was the only relatively well constructed x86 machines that were available at the time. When I come to update this box in a few years I expect that there will be x86 compatible hardware from both Sun + Apple on the market. And the build quality of Sun + Apple as anyone who uses one will appreciate is an order of magnitude above that of Dell.

Reply Score: 1