"I first demoed Versora Progression Desktop at LinuxWorld Boston in February of 2005, and was impressed by what it could do. Basically it takes all of your essential data and program settings (and even some decidedly nonessential settings) and transfers them to GNU/Linux. I hadn't heard much from the company since then - until Linspire announced a partnership with them recently. The deal is, Progression Desktop will move you from Windows to Linspire without any hassle."
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2005-07-06
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Somehow the wrong link got into the intro. Here is a copy of the same article on a more robust server:
http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/218/1/
I'm trying to switch hosting for softwareinreview.com, so this hopefully won't be an issue in the future.
-Jem
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2005-11-10
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2005-11-30
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2005-07-06
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tried Chandler ?
http://chandler.osafoundation.org/
Member since:2005-07-22
Member since:2005-07-06
Grrr ...
We've already established that I have no intentions of doing any more switches, because I've already done one! I'm perfectly happy with Mail as a mail client. I don't need workgroup/calendaring software.
Thanks for the suggestions, but I'm already using Mail, and I like it. :-P
Member since:2005-07-06
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Well, I keep my mail on an IMAP server and can switch the mail client any moment I wish to...
I keep my mail in unix mbox format and I can switch client anytime I want to because every client will import it because it's been around since he stone age. Also Thunderbird runs on a lot of platforms so I don't actually have to switch.
No need to pay extra for an IMAP service and my email archive can swell to a size of gigabytes.
Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:2005-10-12
I've heard this before, and found it very odd indeed. To move your mail from Outlook to Linux, you just export from Outlook in unix mailbox format, then you import it into evolution or kmail.
I've moved one person from Eudora on OS9, to Outlook on OS9, to iscribe on W2K, to Kmail on Linux and now to Evolution. Took a few minutes each time. Calendar and contacts moving from Claris Organiser via Palm Organiser was a bit more laborious, but not terribly hard.
Maybe there is something very difficult about imports in Mail 2.0? I haven't tried that. If so, whatever it is must be peculiar to Mail 2.0, and not generally found in Linux/Unix mail packages.
Member since:2005-12-02
"I've heard this before, and found it very odd indeed. To move your mail from Outlook to Linux, you just export from Outlook in unix mailbox format, then you import it into evolution or kmail."
Maybe I am missing something here, but there is no export option in Outlook to move it to a mbox format. Could be I am missing it somewhere, but it most definitely is not in the File/Import or Export menu. Not with Outlook 2003 anyway.
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After having to support the bloody thing for a while, I'd say that's pretty much par for the course when using Outlook. Just moving data between different installations of Outlook itself can often be an exercise in futility.
Of course, Outlook 2003 isn't all bad - without it, I'd never have had the opportunity to be paid for clicking on a plus sign (tech support call for someone who thought they had lost all their mail from that day, but had actually just collapsed the "Today" view by accident).
And next to the number of hoops I've had to jump through in order to get data out of MSSQL .MDB/.LDB files, Outlook's data is almost plaintext by comparison.
Member since:2005-11-10
? You are trying to move from Outlook 2003 (A full email client) To OSX mail 2.0 (Which is like moving from Outlook to Outlook exspress)
Using Versora you can migrate from Outlook 2003 to Evolution and even connect to Exchange in one swoop (If you have the exchange plug installed)
You have to remember that MS uses propriatary formats, they make it on purpose hard for you to move from MS products to anything else. That is why the EU sued them, to open things up (Not like that will happen though)
Member since:2006-01-09
? You are trying to move from Outlook 2003 (A full email client) To OSX mail 2.0 (Which is like moving from Outlook to Outlook exspress)
Actually, Outlook is more of a groupware client than an e-mail client with all that calendaring and scheduling stuff. Outlook Express and Mail are more akin to e-mail clients than Outlook. In fact, IMHO both are much better at handling e-mails than Outlook - which is a bit cluttered for someone that only uses it for e-mails - and I prefer them.
Evolution is fine if an Outlook-like app is what floats your boat, but last I heard, Evolution was having a few stability problems that could compromise data eventually while KMail (the mailing part on Kontact) handles several GB of e-mails without a hiccup. Kontact is a better contender on that front, again IMHO.
Member since:2005-11-14
Member since:2005-07-06
Yes, I moved from Outlook 2003 to Mail 2.0. Take a wild guess as to why.
I switched to a Mac. I don't exactly have the choice of running Outlook 2003 on the Mac, and something like Evolution on OS X? Pfft. Why don't I just delete my OS X partition and install Linux on my Mac Mini/iBook if I'm going to do something as stupid as that?
However, you did answer my question (more or less) in your second paragraph, so that's good.
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2005-07-18
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2005-06-29
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No one actually wants stable API's. They just don't like deprecation, or more importantly, the eventual removal of deprecated methods/symbols. Added API calls are wonderful, and I don't think I've ever met a developer who didn't like finding new features added to toolkits when he/she needed them. Users loathe them when developers love them too much and all require the latest version 
.
And I believe you mean there's no stable ABI in the Linux kernel, there are many stable ABI's throughout *nix libraries; gtk is a great example.
There are no stable c++ based ABI's in gcc based platforms, that's very true.
Anyway. Just thought I'd respond to your pulpit that you often get on.
Member since:2005-06-29
You pretty much clarified what I was saying.
I forgot to add that autopackage with installation dependency resolution in a possibly distributed manner would be huge and better than windows setup.exe. Being stuck in a repository universe is no good and compiling source code is a non-starter for obvious reasons.
Member since:2005-06-29
I'd like to see something like autopackage that's source based actually.
Obviously the packager would be more complex as it'd have to fetch gcc if necessary. But it'd be very nice, and it'd be a much better solution than binary packages. Sure it takes a few minutes to install that way (sometimes even a half hour), but for most little add-ons we're talking about 10 minutes and a better shot at working right.
Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:2005-07-08
Mozilla guy talked about this a while back. I forgot his name, but he thought it was a big showstopper for some people moving to linux.
His name is Asa Dotzler. He wrote a blog post titled "Linux not ready for the desktop" July 11, 2005, and said "The issues fall into four basic categories, migration, stability, simplicity, and comfort."
You can read this classic piece here: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008499.html
Member since:
2005-07-07
Jem writes
The only hassle I ran into was the default location for depositing documents saved from Windows. Progression Desktop saves them to your current user's home directory, but Linspire doesn't give direct access to that location...
It may just be an configuration issue or the application could try to detect which desktop environment it is customizing and take that DE's document path
Member since:
2006-01-10
This is one of those things most people can do themselves or they can pay to have it done for them. If this works PREFECTLY then it may be worth a few bucks to some people but the moment it doesnt work perfectly is the moment you have thrown good money away for something you can easily do yourself...
WHOA! 29.99? What happened to $9.99 just a few weeks ago? At $9.99 it would make sense, for $29.99 I will just do it myself thanks!
Another question - are most savvy enough to get this setup and the transfer made?
I wonder how many companies they tried to partner with before Linspire hopped on it?
Once again, do I really want my linux to look and sound just like my windows? I thought I was leaving windows behind and not recreating it?
Dont forget, with Linspire you have to upgrade to the latest version or get left with no way to safely install software. pay pay pay cause with linspire it is the only way...:)
Member since:2005-06-29
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2005-07-10
Migrating mail is in the today world not a issue any more. The big problem is calendaring and scheduling.
As long as the big player (IBM, MS, Novell, etc) are using their own way of implementing C&S, I dont see how this issue can be solved.
Mail ist mostly covered by standards like POP/IMAP/SMTP, but C&S is another story.
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2005-07-06
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2006-01-10
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2005-07-06
Being stuck in a repository universe is no good and compiling source code is a non-starter for obvious reasons.
Repositories are good for some things. I bet Microsoft wishes their OS was easier to update. However, using repositories and distro specific packages are not going to give users the flexibility to install the wide range of software they need on a desktop Linux system. Linspire's Click'N'Run is a paying solution to a problem that shouldn't exist.
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2006-01-03
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2006-01-10
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Right! There is no reason to build your software
Of course there is. The fact that some people think they don't need it does not mean that there is no reason.
But there is no reason to pay for CNR when others make it easy to install software
And I think saying that is wrong too. Unsupported packages are the reason some trolls keep saying package management does not work.
Member since:
2005-07-06
...all the spyware/trojans and viruses (viri?) come with too!. Just kidding. Seriously, this product isn't for people who know how to export email to mbox format and import into kmail. This is for the average joe that has been running windows for a while and wants to try this cool Linux things. It's the same reason Linspire exists.
Member since:
2006-01-25
I'm one of the developers on Progression Desktop, and I'd like to add a little more info to these comments. While many people use Progression Desktop to migrate their Email, it also handles Contacts, Calendars, and Tasks from Outlook, Outlook Express, Mozilla, or Thunderbird, and can migrate to Evolution, KMail/Kontact, Mozilla, and Thunderbird. Oh, and it moves the accounts, along with stored passwords too. There's also support for browser settings such Bookmarks, Cookies, home page, and more from IE, Mozilla and Firefox to Firefox, Konqueror and Mozilla. Also, AIM and GAIM accounts are migrated to GAIM or Kopete. And this is just in version 1.2; version 2.0 will add far more packages to migrate system and application settings.
As for this being "written in a hurry," trust me, it's not. Several of my coworkers and I came from a company which performs Windows to Windows migrations, so we've got a lot of migration experience. All settings and application data are neutralized, allowing us to quickly add support for new sources and destinations. For instance, when we added support for Mozilla and Thunderbird mail and contacts in version 1.2, they automatically worked as destinations from Outlook or Outlook Express, and as sources when migrating to themselves or to Evolution or KMail.
Finally, for those of you with larger migrations to perform, the whole thing is easily command-line scriptable with simple XML templates (yes, XML can be simple).
Anyway, I'd love to hear more feedback about the product, and if you want more info check out our website at http://versora.com.
Nick Lassonde
Versora
Member since:
2005-07-07
Making a Linux Desktop appear & sound like someone's Windows Desktop isn't as bad as some make it out to be.
Consider the target market for Linspire: Windows users who are curious about Linux.
If someone used Progression Desktop to port all of their settings from Windows to Linux, you'd probably take at least 75% of the 'fear' out of peoples' minds about considering the switch from Windows to Linux. If you make Linux look & feel like the Windows Desktop that people are accustomed to, most new users would have very little trouble navigating around KDE.
I think a product like this is a great idea. According to the Versora Web Site, http://www.versora.com this product isn't exclusively for Linspire. It'll work with many Linux flavours.
Member since:
2005-12-02
For what it does it is an excellent product. There is no other like it, and it sure beats the manual transfer process. When I saw it first posted on OSNEws, I went and bought a copy as I was doing a migration at the time.
At first I did not think it was going to work, as it did not seem to move my emails and such over. Come to find out it was my Outlook setup, as I use multiple profiles to keep accounts seperate. I would probably say the average user does not do that from people I have worked with over the years, so not a problem for the majority. The program did move my bookmarks, cookies, desktop settings, wallpaper, documents, etc without a hiccup. I was provided with a work around for the mail issue that worked flawlessly by the Versora folks. That is the best part, so let me explain it.
I made a comment on OSnews in the article about it not seeming to work for email, and was contacted by Mike Sheffey, the CEO. This was extremely proactive as I had not yet sent them a request for assistance. He put me in contact with Matthew Warne, the guy in charge of QA, and the workaround was given very quickly.
Sorry for the long post, but this is an excellent company, with an excellent product, and the support is the best I have ever personally seen. I wanted to get that out there, specialy the support end, as they have done a tremendous job.
Member since:
2005-11-05
You might also take a look at OpenMoveOver by Resolvo (another windows ---> Linux migration company)
http://openmoveover.sourceforge.net/
The released the linux portion of their flagship product under the GPL.
Member since:
2006-01-10
Member since:2005-07-22
They are a for Profit Company! Nothing wrong with that. From their FAQ:
Progression Desktop is licensed per desktop. A license is required for every Windows desktop that is replaced with a Linux desktop. If 100 Windows machines are migrated to Linux, 100 licenses of Progression Desktop are required.
Member since:
2006-01-08
I've had difficulty transferring stuff from one windows app to another. I use Outlook for email/calendar (only because it syncs with my phone and pda)and on the occasions I've tried thunderbird it copies my mail no problem, but doesn't copy my mail server settings (got 5 email accounts). [note: obviously it doesn't copy calendar data]
so if this could do what thunderbird and host of other apps (in windows) can't. then it's a great help.
Member since:
2006-01-10
Member since:
2005-07-06
Have you ever notice that most people don't drive Ford Model T cars anymore. You know, the kind where you had to hand crank the engine after setting the magneto. In fact, most people drive cars with automatic transmissions or at least manual transmissions that you don't have to double clutch when shifting. They also have windows that roll up and down and door locks and ... other modern things expected in all cars.
This is why average users want something like LinSpire. They have lives outside of computers. They just want things to work NOW without having to fuss with them. There are more important things in life than spending time configuring a computer to do things it should do automatically.
So, if you want to spend time configuring your computers to do every little thing, fine. But non techies have no more interest in that then having to use a hand crank to start their car, their tv, or anything else.
BTW: $50 / 12 = peanuts. If you can't afford that I really have to wonder about you. And that $50 for LinSpire covers all OS and software updates for most of the software on click-n-run. That is easily worth the $50 in time saved and hassles not gone through.
Me? I bought a Mac. But if I didn't have a Mac I'd be using LinSpire.
Member since:2005-07-22
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This is why average users want something like LinSpire. They have lives outside of computers. They just want things to work NOW without having to fuss with them
Do you realise that this is not possible with any computer ?
Do you realise this is not possible with even the newer Ford models ?
In the world I live in, you still have to learn how to use a car, and still have to learn how every bonus works, and still have to know when and what to maintain for it to last more than 1 month. Same with a computer and OS, though some OS require less maintenance than others.
Linspire software is the same as in other Linux desktops : they still need you to understand them to use them.
There are more important things in life than spending time configuring a computer to do things it should do automatically
People who think like that don't use computers. A computer is so versatile, it can't do everything out of the box. At least in FOSS land, the cost that makes this impossible in proprietary/commercial land is taken care of, but there are still other road blocks.
So, if you want to spend time configuring your computers to do every little thing, fine
But you're forced to configure your computer to do every little thing, or else it won't work.
But non techies have no more interest in that then having to use a hand crank to start their car, their tv, or anything else
That's why they can't use them properly. Ever seen HDTV with wrong format ? Or blinking hour on VC recorder ? Or people that drive without a licence ?
Member since:
2006-01-10
yea linspire has the magic all right....
Strange I thought is used the same kernel, same modules, same hardware probe tools same...EVERYTHING! How does it magically make everything work our of the box? Strange to have all those posts on the forums if everything works out of the box. Like JACK, modems, wireless cards, newer nvidias? Just because they say it is the easiest linux doesnt make it so.
There are plenty of easy distros our there and at least they offer you a way to use them in a year from now. Yea CNR and everything is fairly cheap because they know they have you on the subscription plan and as long as you want to use linspire you have no choice but to pay, pay, pay....
People try to use that "easiest linux" and find it sucks or is slow or is actually pretty difficult and then get turned off of linux because they believe that is the "easiest" linux so they have no chance at using other distros.
Member since:
2006-01-10
Member since:
2006-01-10
Member since:2006-01-25
GPLCop,
The Progression Desktop engine is not licensed under the GPL, and contains no GPL code. However, it is licensed under our own "Enterprise Source License", where we will provide source code to users who wish to make modifications to the engine for internal (non-redistributable) use.
Member since:2006-01-10
just wondering about this part of the license...
5.4 DISCLOSURE OF RELIANCE ON SOFTWARE COVERED UNDER THE GPL. By accepting this
License, Licensee acknowledges and agrees that (a) Versora has disclosed to Licensee that Versora has constructed
the following modules of the Software and is distributing the same in reliance upon the GNU General Public
License ("GPL") from the vendor thereof identified herein: (i) the graphical user interface for the Linux-based
version of the Software, which is in the Qt module and provided under the GPL from TrollTech, (b) the GPL from
each such vendor permits the use and distribution of such vendor's software on a royalty-free basis under that GPL
only for so long as the user makes all changes to and modifications in such software freely available to third parties;
and (c) in order to be entitled to use any version of any such GPL-Based Components that Licensee may modify,
Licensee shall be required either to compensate the vendor thereof or make the modified version of such GPL-Based
Component freely available to third parties.
Member since:2006-01-25
Ah, yes. That's regaring the GUI wrapper, which is licensed under the GPL. The GUI is a dynamic application builder/simple application launcher, which tries to be completely generic as to what application it wraps. (As it's not tied to the Progression Desktop engine, it's a separate work).
It will automatically install the correct RPM/Deb file based on the distribution & what packages are installed, then launch either a GTK or Qt GUI, which is based on a shared XML description.
This GUI is written as Bash & Python scripts, and such is distributed as source code.
I'm currently working on the UI, and am hoping to make it even more generic, so that this framework could be more useful to others.
