Linked by Adam S on Sat 28th Jan 2006 13:25 UTC
Windows Digg users just "dugg" an item from Silicon Valley Sleuth to the top of their queue. The article asks boldly, "is Windows Vista really vapourware?" Although the article discounts some legitimate strides Microsoft is making with things like IE7, Least-Privileged User Account, and Windows Defender, there's little doubt that Windows Vista is a far cry from what we were promised a few short years ago.
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Useless
by mefisto on Sat 28th Jan 2006 13:59 UTC
mefisto
Member since:
2005-08-18

Somebody .. please .. tell me, why i need it?

Programm switching is embarrassing.
UI is heavy. Security is just an illusion.
There is no WinFS.

And how much i must pay for that ?!?! $100 ? $200?
Its cheaper to stay on Xp and buy legal WinBlind or smth like it.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Useless
by Kroc on Sat 28th Jan 2006 14:08 UTC in reply to "Useless"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

True, but 'eventually' you will have no option. MS don't expect anybody to actually upgrade to Vista besides the Microsofties. Vista will come as standard on all new Dell Boxen etc.

Manufacturers will begin to target Vista's new graphics foundation and features and within a year the first Vista-Only app will appear. Shortly, as developers move over to Vista by way of new development machines, programmers will get lazy and apps will begin to require Vista not so much because they require it, but because the developer is too lazy to boot an XP box and test. (Win2K suffers exactly the same)

The thing with a monopoly is you have no choice to avoid the upgrade treadmill unless you get off entirely.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Useless
by johndaly on Sat 28th Jan 2006 16:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Useless"
johndaly Member since:
2006-01-16

You are right, that's the way it's going to bee. I can remember when XP came out, everybody got worked up about its registration scheme and how they would never move to XP. I was one of them, what Windows am I running now? XP, I got a new computer and that's what was on it.

If you are a bit lazy (I know I am and Iím sure most other people are too) you will run Vista in 5 years latest.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Useless
by Kroc on Sat 28th Jan 2006 16:19 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Useless"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Indeed, it's the same as the jaded Windows 98 users who swore they would never upgrade to XP because they hated the Lego look. With the hindsight we have now, everybody can see that using Windows 98 is practically stoneage and insane! I believe the exact same will be of Vista. People will moan and complain becuase they like the sound of their own voice, but by the time we've all been using Vista for a year or two, we would cringe at the thought of having to use a stone-age Windows XP machine.

It's been this way ever since Win3.1 and I don't see it being any different this time with Vista, hardware requirements and all.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Useless
by dsmogor on Sat 28th Jan 2006 17:42 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Useless"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

I use it. It's much nicer for my HW, leaves a lot more for my data on HD and given the fact that most viruses now target XP is safer.

Of course it sucks as developement platform but that what we have linux for ;) .

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Useless
by chemical_scum on Sat 28th Jan 2006 21:33 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Useless"
chemical_scum Member since:
2005-11-02

everybody can see that using Windows 98 is practically stoneage and insane!

I still have a Win 98 partition on my Linux box at home while my work computer runs XP. On the rare occasions I boot into Win 98 I am quite surprised how efficient and modern its GUI interface seems, XP seems to offer no advantage here. 98 runs all the most recent versions of the apps I have on it both FOSS and proprietary and I have yet to find a program that does not install (OK the only proprietary apps I have tried are the free trial versions of chemical 2D drawing programs).

The only real advantage of XP is that unlike Win 98 it is stable and I'll be the first to admit that XP is a very stable platform. The lack of a proper multiuser accounts for 98 is an important security feature missing for its use as a network client but this is much less relevent for a home machine.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Useless
by AmigaRobbo on Sat 28th Jan 2006 22:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Useless"
AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

"everybody can see that using Windows 98 is practically stoneage and insane!"

But is that true about People using Windows 2000?

Heck I thought that about 98 after using NT4, and strangly enough even MORE so about ME.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Useless
by kolmyo on Sun 29th Jan 2006 12:05 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Useless"
kolmyo Member since:
2005-07-11

I know a lot of people who use Windows 2000 (when they use Windows), including me. The reason for that is that 2k just is the best Windows atm. XP only added some bugs, ugly UI and some irrelevant features which can be added to Win2k by installing some 3rd party apps.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Useless
by sappyvcv on Sun 29th Jan 2006 17:38 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Useless"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Have you tried Windows Server 2003?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Useless
by Get a Life on Sat 28th Jan 2006 19:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Useless"
Get a Life Member since:
2006-01-01

The people complaining about XP registration probably went on to pirate...er use XP Pro with corporate keys. Had Microsoft not provided for them an out, they'd still be complaining.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Useless
by bornagainenguin on Sun 29th Jan 2006 08:15 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Useless"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

The people complaining about XP registration probably went on to pirate...er use XP Pro with corporate keys. Had Microsoft not provided for them an out, they'd still be complaining. -- Get a Life

I know I did. I'm currently using my legal XP Home but that's only because nI now have an internet connection and no longer have to stand outside in the cold trying to use a payphone to activate the next time I give the latest Linux a spin...

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 1

by Lazarus on Sat 28th Jan 2006 14:11 UTC
Lazarus
Member since:
2005-08-10

The article is nothing but a troll. Don't waste your time reading it. Bad Digg, bad!

"Next came sidebar, the idea that Microsoft stole from Apple's Dashboard, which stole it from Konfabulator."

Need I say more? The first time I saw the sidebar was before I ever saw Tiger. Ancient versions of the Mac OS had little applications like widgets, just not as flashy as Konfabulator or Dashboard. Things evolve, ideas get adopted, and some people (the blog owner in this case) still post ignorant tripe.

EDIT #2: And damnit to hell, ideas cannot be stolen.

Edited 2006-01-28 14:22

Reply Score: 5

RE:
by Kroc on Sat 28th Jan 2006 14:19 UTC in reply to " "
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Yes, but it's not a "widget/gadget/etc" unless it's written in XML ;)

Apple's original Mac could only run one app at a time, but you could call up very small "desk accessories" like the calculator whilst using any app. Just because it's not XML that doesn't make it any more the same as Dashboard/Konfrab etc. The same Desk accessories were present in GEOS too.

But if we want to get *realllly* anal, IBM Mainframes and Mini Computers had a calculator you could pull up with some weird ass key command on the SysRq; and it could be used at any time regardless of screen or app. Users of SYSTEM/360 and AS/400 will probably know of this.

People are very fickle and dense believing that a fresh design and a small amount of AJAX (that's been around since 1999) constitutes Web 2.0; which is just plain crap.

Since the very first machines that could multithread, there have been Widgets/Gadgets/Desk Accessories in some form or another, so nobody stole it off of anybody!

Reply Score: 2

RE:
by BluenoseJake on Sat 28th Jan 2006 17:13 UTC in reply to " "
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

MS never stole the sidebar from dashboard, dashboard didn't even come out until tiger, and the sidebar has been in and out of longhorn since development began.

Reply Score: 1

superkaramba
by _bq_ on Sat 28th Jan 2006 17:22 UTC in reply to " "
_bq_ Member since:
2006-01-24

And it reminds me of superkaramba (Linux, KDE). Skinnable confugurable like anything ... but the Vista design is nice. As usual.

I don't really see why the authors of the original article complain, what can you demonstrate to a common public if not the GUI enhancements?

Sure there is a LOT of under the hood features that were skipped and maybe more annoying might bi this: how stable and secure will Vista really be? Since it was delayed several times and then it was downfeatured, I smell that the coding troubles were quite heavy.

OK MS has to sell a new GUI, but dear customers; do you get enough innovation for your money? I don't think so.

Ben

Reply Score: 1

Dictionnary for words
by Moulinneuf on Sat 28th Jan 2006 14:19 UTC
Moulinneuf
Member since:
2005-07-06

I really like how words are messed up with by the native speaker who cant bother looking them up in dictionnary.

Vaporware is a software that dont exist and that no one as seen outside of a company. Until someone actually use it in daily use its vaporware , as no one outside the company can really say if its a product or some screenshot scam to swindle investors money.

Its the same with the word trolls , people who cant say "I disagree with your position" and cant defend there own view will lable you a troll. A troll is someone anonymous who will come in a discussion and uterly discuss something else totally unrelated and that is so
disruptive to a discussion that it stop other people from discussing the original subject , its really rare to see troll.

Microsoft as NEVER delivered on its false promise , but they hide under the "but its marketing excuses ,
"nobody really believe marketing".

Some of the stuff Windows vista will have are thing that where supposed to be in windows 3.1 , if you read there emtpy promises and false advertising.

Also people tend to believe the hype and listen in on development phase , the problem is that a lot of stuff that are in development are not ready yet to be shipped or are just crazy idea that cant be made to work today or made a reality on a realistic budget.

Vista will be a great OS , with many new feature , but it will fail to deliver anything extraordinary new or innovative and it will cost you legally a lot to acquire a complete solution that probably whont be totally what whas vista promised in the first place to be and really fulfilling your need or making you be able to achieve a lot more then what your already do on XP.

Most people did not go out and buy XP and they whont go out buying Windows Vista , they buy computers and thats whats offered on them as default , also thats what there new software and game need for them to be able to use them.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Dictionnary for words
by Ronald Vos on Sat 28th Jan 2006 15:59 UTC in reply to "Dictionnary for words "
Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

I really like how words are messed up with by the native speaker who cant bother looking them up in dictionnary.

There is irony in your words ;)
(feel free to mod this down)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Dictionnary for words
by Moulinneuf on Sat 28th Jan 2006 16:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Dictionnary for words "
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

English aint my first and native language

Reply Score: 0

I smell another flamewar :-)
by Emil on Sat 28th Jan 2006 14:31 UTC
Emil
Member since:
2005-06-29

When author is posting such text "Next came sidebar, the idea that Microsoft stole from Apple's Dashboard, which stole it from Konfabulator." he sould be ready to be flamed. :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE: I smell another flamewar :-)
by biteydog on Sat 28th Jan 2006 15:00 UTC in reply to "I smell another flamewar :-)"
biteydog Member since:
2005-10-06

So ignore him.

Reply Score: 2

RE: I smell another flamewar :-)
by CPUGuy on Sat 28th Jan 2006 15:14 UTC in reply to "I smell another flamewar :-)"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

Especially since the Windows sidebar was in testing before OSX ver.1 even came out. And you could even get your hands on it from the MSR page.

Reply Score: 1

Agent Smith!
by SlackerJack on Sat 28th Jan 2006 15:23 UTC
SlackerJack
Member since:
2005-11-12

It's inevitable Mr Anderson. How am i supposed to make a choice if you already know?

Sounds familiar?

Reply Score: 0

Third parties ...
by WorknMan on Sat 28th Jan 2006 15:29 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

In the end, Vista won't do anything that Windows XP can't do already with a little help from third party vendors.

I wonder which of the third party applications out there can rewrite the audio stack and put it into user space, so that individual applications can take control over their own audio settings.

But in general, he's right, though that happens to be one of Windows's strengths, IMHO. There are so many third party apps out there that do so much, you'd be hard pressed to find much that can't be done already.

It's true that a lot of the new features in Vista that are touted the most tend to point out all the 'shiny' new things about the GUI, but I blame that more on Generation iPod, who seem to value style over substance. Even if MS put a bad-ass Directory Opus-like file manager into the OS, it probably wouldn't fair as well as a new WMP because a) It's too much power for the average user and b) It doesn't sparkle and look 'stylish' enough.

It's just too bad that most people tend to ignore all the changes under the hood, such as a new protected admin user type.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Third parties ...
by Kroc on Sat 28th Jan 2006 15:37 UTC in reply to "Third parties ..."
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

You over-generalise the iPod generation. A six year old can Sync an iPod fully, no clicks required. A child can use an iPod without any difficulty. Even now, and before the iPod no such hardware + software stack existed that was powerful and simple.

Vista is also about trying to simplify Windows as a whole, I've not had a chance to use the Beta yet so do not know how successful that has been.

Vista seems a much more consumer orientated release, and thus an Opus-like file manager baked in is paramount to suicide. Don't underate basic, simple features considering 90% of the market don't even know what a file-manager is, and they have the most combined money to spend.

edit: changed 'it' to unconfuse context

Edited 2006-01-28 15:49

Reply Score: 1

RE: Third parties ...
by thecwin on Sat 28th Jan 2006 15:41 UTC in reply to "Third parties ..."
thecwin Member since:
2006-01-04

"I wonder which of the third party applications out there can rewrite the audio stack and put it into user space, so that individual applications can take control over their own audio settings."

Off topic, but, this is one of the features I can't wait for on Windows Vista. It should hopefully increase stability, and almost certainly make doing audio work as a non-admin usable.

ALSA on Linux is not directly in userspace but it supports changing nearly all the config in userspace and the kernel space is the minimal part... unfortunately Linux's audio software currently doesn't compete with Windows audio software...

Back on topic: This article is a bit of a flame, but it does bring up good points. WinFS, that new console stuff, etc. was what I was looking forward to most, but they've been yanked...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Third parties ...
by sappyvcv on Sat 28th Jan 2006 17:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Third parties ..."
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

There's no "etc". WinFS and Monad were the only things "pulled" from being released WITH Vista. That's it. The end. I'm not sure why people don't understand this.

Vista is not what they "promised" many years ago, but you're kind of an idiot if you believed it would be. Does it suck? yeah. Should you get all up in arms over it? No. Just take what Microsoft promises with a grain of salt and reserve judgement until they release the product and you try it.

Also, a good place to find out information on new MS products with a bit less of the marketing crap is channel9. It's still MS employees, which are usually very enthusiastic about what they are working on. But still, they are not profressional marketers, and give a much better and realistic view of the products than marketing.

Edited 2006-01-28 17:56

Reply Score: 1

prantikk
Member since:
2006-01-21

MS is not a thinktank, but it [still] has some talented people. Good software comes out occasionally (Office family, VS isnt that bad), but only when it isnt connected to OS. So, MS isn't entirely stupid. That must mean other factors outweight what we consider as IT/CS common sense.

MS OSess are crap b/c a ton of energy goes into making things backwards compatible, at the driver and software level. Also, for the sake of current program and driver compatibility, MS OSes are completely loose on program installers and driver quality. I.E. if your touchpad software interfaces with explorer shell, explorer shell can lock up if the touchpad software locks up (laptop users know what i mean). This is exactly why virii can wreak _so_ much havok on Win32 boxen, and also why stock Dell Windows installs suck so much ass.

Vista's going to be an improvement over XP, but unless MS decides to BITE THE BULLET and block out old crap in favor of RIGOROUS COMPATIBILITY GUIDELINES, we're going to see more of the same SOON ENOUGH.
Linux is usable as a desktop OS mainly b/c everything is so distro specific that unless it was compiled from source or made for your distro, its probably going to be a pain in the ass or impossible to use. Linux gets these rigorous compatibility guidelines by accident, but nonetheless it has them.

Reply Score: 1

Well, yeah.
by Sphinx on Sat 28th Jan 2006 16:54 UTC
Sphinx
Member since:
2005-07-09

It's all vapourware at some point, part of the process. At some point however in the life of every great project ever dreamed and if you're focused just right you'll even feel it like the sudden pause at the eye of a hurricane, it's that moment of such perfect calm, clarity and silence when reality rears it's ugly head and true heroes are born. What happens next can be speculated endlessly, only blamestorming, the final product and marketing can determine it's fate.

Reply Score: 1

Microsoft Math
by Tyr. on Sat 28th Jan 2006 17:01 UTC
Tyr.
Member since:
2005-07-06

This is known as Microsoft Math ( http://redmondmag.com/features/article.asp?EditorialsID=465 )

"The first time Microsoft talks about a product, it is wildly, overly enthusiastic. So the best thing to do is just not believe anything the company says; give a 100 percent discount. Then Microsoft will be embarrassed and go into the mode of trying not to say anything. But then the second date it gives you, that's the one it will probably miss by six to 12 months. And when it misses by six to 12 months, it will try not to give another date, but the third date the company gives is the one where you start to think about it actually happening. So the third date is the charm but the software typically won't work."

Reply Score: 3

Windows Vista...
by theTSF on Sat 28th Jan 2006 17:07 UTC
theTSF
Member since:
2005-09-27

Windows Vista one step closer to offering us what they promised for Windows 95.

Reply Score: 4

Marketing Hype
by plepak on Sat 28th Jan 2006 17:58 UTC
plepak
Member since:
2006-01-28

In defense of Microsoft, it should be noted that ALL companies over-hype their products. Take Apple's release of OS X 10.4, for example. Steve Jobs billed it as a new operating system that would revolutionize the way people used computers. In reality, the 10.4 update was exactly that: an update. It was NOT a new oeprating system, but rather a few trivial features that could have and should have been delivered for free. If Apple can charge $130 for a few ho-hum updates, a $200 fee for Vista is in no way unfair. While Vista is indeed shipping with fewer major features (WinFS) than were promised initially, it will still be leaps and bounds ahead of XP. Just yank those Microsoft-hater glasses off your eyes for a moment and see Vista for what it really is: an awesome new version of Windows that will improve the XP experience in every possible way.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Marketing Hype
by elsewhere on Sat 28th Jan 2006 20:10 UTC in reply to "Marketing Hype"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

In defense of Microsoft, it should be noted that ALL companies over-hype their products.

Of course, that's simple marketing. But for years Microsoft has leveraged their position combined with outrageous promises, sometimes appearing to be made up on the fly, to spread FUD about and undermine their competitors actual on-the-shelf-today products. They admitted as much in the anti-trust trials, and while being crucified on the ethics front, it was found to be a perfectly legitimate sales tactic.

At this point, I think people are a little more cynical and MS has tarnished their track record at being able to deliver what they commit to. But at the end of the day, everyone knows it really doesn't matter. Every new version of both Windows and Office has always been promised to be a revolutionary change in the way people use their computers; and every new version of both has been little more than an evolutionary step over the previous.

The problem with that is that people are no longer clambering to upgrade to the latest versions, the new products build momentum slowly over time and mostly as new systems are purchased or new licenses are added within enterprises. Other than the early adopters, an extremely miniscule portion of the overall market, nobody really cares, particularly the businesses.

Microsoft's response to market apathy is to simply dial up the rhetoric level and advance the product hype one step closer to the realm of science-fiction, which results in an even more jaded customer base and perpetuates the whole cycle.

If people cut through the hype and realize Vista is not going to become an epoc-shattering new paradigm in desktop computing, they'll probably find it's a reasonable transition from XP. I haven't used Vista myself, but from what I've read, if Microsoft can deliver properly on the proposed changes to the security model, that alone would probably make it worth looking into.

But Microsoft being Microsoft, some things will never change. It's true that a leopard can't change it's spots.

Reply Score: 1

The major changes.
by dsmogor on Sat 28th Jan 2006 18:47 UTC
dsmogor
Member since:
2005-09-01

I gues the major changes are under the hood.
The userspace A/V driver stacks (why not printers!!??) and push for Admin elimination are new concepts in Windows world. Also the new GUI api prommises emergemce of Flash/Web like application experience on the desktop.

Also I think it's the first platform for Redmont that will push the managed api in pursuing to relegate crappy win32 as legacy stuff. 1st sign - apps that use GDI will be second rate on the platform.
Taking this into acconunt and the fact that MS is really in businees of selling platforms and compatibility (and OS is only a tool to cach on this it's apparent that Vista is a major step. But of course that's not the message that end customers are expected to comprehend.

Reply Score: 1

RE: The major changes.
by n4cer on Sun 29th Jan 2006 00:42 UTC in reply to "The major changes."
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

I gues the major changes are under the hood.
The userspace A/V driver stacks (why not printers!!??)


Printer drivers have been in user-mode since Windows 2000. There have been changes in printing on Vista though. Vista has an all new print path based on WPF and XPS instead of GDI. It also takes advantage of the new Windows Color System for a much larger color space and higher quality output.

Here's a video:
http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=137532

Reply Score: 1

Distinction
by Get a Life on Sat 28th Jan 2006 19:51 UTC
Get a Life
Member since:
2006-01-01

As Vista has been scaled back in functionality with time, parts of it were 'vaporware' whereas Vista exists and thus is not. There's probably a number of you legitimately and illegitimately running the beta.

Reply Score: 1

Vapor? Right...
by DigitalAxis on Sat 28th Jan 2006 23:17 UTC
DigitalAxis
Member since:
2005-08-28

If "not living up to expectations" and "Not reinventing the wheel a completely new way" are what constitutes vaporware, then haven't all versions of Windows, GNU/Linux, UNIX and Mac OS been vaporware?

While I'm not sure Vista is really going to turn out to be that much better than XP in either looks or the retooled backends, saying it's vaporware because Microsoft has pushed their normal delays and cutbacks to amazing levels is... well, silly. Yeah, it's not released but they do have something to show for it.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Vapor? Right...
by Windows Sucks on Mon 30th Jan 2006 13:12 UTC in reply to "Vapor? Right..."
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

Please, everything Apple promised in their OS they have delivered and then some.

When 10 came out they let us know "Hey this is just a foundation for people who want to see what the new OS is all about, it's not complete and we have a LONG way to go" Now in 10.4 you have a robust OS with tons of cool features (That people actually use)

MS on the other had brags, and boasts that they will have this, that and the other in their products, but all they have ever brought to the table is bells and whistles! No meat!

The UI sucks compared to Mac OS? What's up with that? And to even get close to the Mac OS UI in Vista you will have to buy a video card as powerful as some peoples whole PC. LOL!

MS has and always will be a marketing machine, they will never, ever out innovate any other software company! They will just continue to out sell people by using great marketing tactics!

When you have to take features of your new product and back port them to your old product there is a BIG problem. (And I am not talking about IE 7)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Vapor? Right...
by sappyvcv on Mon 30th Jan 2006 13:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Vapor? Right..."
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

"When 10 came out they let us know "Hey this is just a foundation for people who want to see what the new OS is all about, it's not complete and we have a LONG way to go" Now in 10.4 you have a robust OS with tons of cool features (That people actually use)"

Oh yeah, I'm sure thats what Steve Jobs was saying when introducing it...

"MS on the other had brags, and boasts that they will have this, that and the other in their products, but all they have ever brought to the table is bells and whistles! No meat!"

"No Meat", and thus you have gone ahead and done the work for me of proving you as either a troll or a zealot.

"The UI sucks compared to Mac OS? What's up with that? And to even get close to the Mac OS UI in Vista you will have to buy a video card as powerful as some peoples whole PC. LOL!"

LOL! You can buy a videocard to fully use Vista for $50 or even less.

Mac OSX sucks LOL!

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Vapor? Right...
by Windows Sucks on Mon 30th Jan 2006 14:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Vapor? Right..."
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

Please, HOW do you know that you can buy a video card that fully supports Vista when they havn't even finished the UI! LOL!

And no Steve Jobs didn't say those exact words about 10.0, but admited the fact that is was incomplete and gave a free upgrade to 10.1 to fix those issues (Has MS ever done that??? NOOOOOO. MS doesn't even admit it's problems, blames holes in it's OS on hackers and not bad coding)

You can say Mac OS sucks, but I am sure you don't really want to compare it to Windows? With 3 major security holes in the first week of 2006! Please! LOL!

More holely then swiss cheese! LOL! More Holy then the Bible. LOL! More holes then a donut factory. LOL!

When a FREE OS has better security then an os made by a 50 Billion dollar company there is a serious problem! Maybe they need to get off making XBoxes and work on fixing bugs and holes!

One last thing! When is the last time MS put out an OS? 5 years ago almost and people are still finding holes, none of which came from the upddates they put out. CRAZY!

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Vapor? Right...
by sappyvcv on Mon 30th Jan 2006 17:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Vapor? Right..."
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

"Please, HOW do you know that you can buy a video card that fully supports Vista when they havn't even finished the UI! LOL!"

I'm going off what the stated requirements are and what the betas support.

OSX 10.5 is going to require a 256mb video card LOL

"And no Steve Jobs didn't say those exact words about 10.0, but admited the fact that is was incomplete and gave a free upgrade to 10.1 to fix those issues (Has MS ever done that??? NOOOOOO. MS doesn't even admit it's problems, blames holes in it's OS on hackers and not bad coding)"

Did he admit that? Show me. And no, MS doesn't like to admit it's problems, and neither does Apple most of the time. As far as free upgrades, yes. Have you ever heard of SERVICE PACKS? Christ man.

"You can say Mac OS sucks, but I am sure you don't really want to compare it to Windows? With 3 major security holes in the first week of 2006! Please! LOL!"

I don't think it sucks actually, but you're a zealot and I'm mocking you.

One last thing! When is the last time MS put out an OS? 5 years ago almost and people are still finding holes, none of which came from the upddates they put out. CRAZY!

Windows Server 2003 - 2003
Windows XP Media Center - 2005
Windows Server 2003 R2 - 2005/2006?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Vapor? Right...
by Windows Sucks on Mon 30th Jan 2006 18:29 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Vapor? Right..."
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

Please, according to Microsoft's hardware specs you need: Graphics Card: A DirectX 9Ėcompatible GPU that is capable of supporting Windows Vista Display Driver Model (WVDDM) and has 64 megabytes of VRAM (That is the minimum spec, and not the final spec) Every version of Mac OS from 10 up can run with a full feature set and at pretty much the same speed that the last version run on.

"As far as free upgrades, yes. Have you ever heard of SERVICE PACKS? Christ man" Service packs are not upgrades! LOL! What you smoking. LOL! They are patch fixes. Apple does that too, like right now Mac OS just put out a "Service Pack" that took Tiger from 10.3.3 to 10.4.4 (The first number is the Major release, second number Minor release and third number is the "service pack" level of the minor release) So when apple went from 10.0 to 10.1 that was not a service pack. LOL!

You are Mocking me but speaking in circles. I am not a Zealot, I just like pointing out the obvious to see who is silly enough to defend it. LOL!

And wow, MS came out with 2 server versions, forgot about those since they have the same problems as all the older versions of Windows. And XP media center is Windows XP Home with the Media Center interface (That they just donít sell separately. It was based on Windows XP pro but they changed that in the new version so that people canít add the machines to Active Directory. LOL! Why I have NOOOOO clue!)You were reaching on that one.

Anyway, I am still waiting on WinFS to come out, and search functions to be based on SQL searches etc! Gonna be like Linspire Linux, says it's based on ReiserFS 4 when in reality the default install is ReiserFS 3 but an advanced user can use 4. LOL! Bait and switch baby!

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Vapor? Right...
by sappyvcv on Tue 31st Jan 2006 03:41 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Vapor? Right..."
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Wait.. wait.. are being serious?

Reply Score: 1

A lot more than vappourware
by werfu on Sun 29th Jan 2006 23:00 UTC
werfu
Member since:
2005-09-15

MS has changed a bit during these last year, if you can see they released some better product (thinking about Office 2003, VS2005) and they have realized they realy have a crappy reputation. So it is why I expect Vista to be much more than just a little upgrade. If it would have been, MS could just have released it in 2003, rebranding it's Windows Server 2003 in work station (what you can still do with NT Switcher, wich is not legal but ;) I still think that Vista will be a step ahead. Just look a quantity of change covering the programming part. All these new API are the signs that things have changed under the hood. MS is pushing hard on the .Net framework and Vista will be just another tool to do so. They can't afford people to be hanging with XP as long as NT4 and Win2000 people have done so.

Expect Vista to be better, bigger, simplier than Windows XP. MS can't do other way, they have competition now, namely Mac OS X and Linux. This will be a hit or a miss. Will it miss and we'll see a lot more apples and penguin running on people computer.

Just my 2Ę...

Reply Score: 1