Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 7th Mar 2006 21:32 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless In a preview of Tuesday afternoon's demonstration, Intel Marketing Director Brad Graff showed CNET News.com several of the Ultra Mobile PC devices, including an example of the kind of hardware that will ship in the next few weeks as part of the Microsoft effort. As earlier reported, the first devices have a 7-inch touch screen, standard x86 processors, and can run full versions of desktop operating systems including the Windows XP variant being used for Origami.
Order by: Score:
Just have to comment
by audun on Tue 7th Mar 2006 21:44 UTC
audun
Member since:
2005-07-13

Now that Apple is using Intel processors, maybe they'll deliver something similar soon? Hopefully smaller and cooler..

But I think I expect too much from Apple, like we all do.. :o)

Reply Score: 1

blogged about it
by Eugenia on Tue 7th Mar 2006 22:00 UTC
Eugenia
Member since:
2005-06-28
RE: blogged about it
by ormandj on Tue 7th Mar 2006 22:33 UTC in reply to "blogged about it"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

I won't question the link to a blog post from today's date, but I'm a bit curious about your post (having read said blog.)

"So why is this new Origami project generates so much buzz while Be/QNX have both failed, I don't know. The only difference between the two systems were that the BeIA and QNX RtP OSes they were running were not full featured, but instead strip-down web-related software (just a picture viewer, a web browser, email, etc). Maybe this variant of WinXP is more complete. "

Because MS has huge amounts of money, so does Intel. They made sure everybody and their mom has heard about this new "project." Supposedly secret, but *somehow* it seems like every media outlet on earth got ahold of information about it. Be and QNX never generated said buzz, they didn't have the money (read: power) to do so. It's never about technical superiority, or even innovation. It's about convincing consumers you offer something they want, and getting them to pay for it. There are lots of *technically* superior products in all kinds of catagories floating around that flop compared to inferior products, with better marketing. That's life in the free-market!

Hope that clears up some things. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: blogged about it
by Peragrin on Tue 7th Mar 2006 22:55 UTC in reply to "RE: blogged about it"
Peragrin Member since:
2006-01-05

The problem has never been software features or else we would still have the Newton. It's been a combination of processing power to deal with media, battery life and weight.

It's the only thing holding back Tablet PC's. 3 hours of battery life doesn't cut it in an 8-10 hour day.

Also Tablet's where highly publicized in 2002 and 2003 . Companies are still making new ones, and Tablet edition of XP has been updated but you don't hear advertising about them much.

I want three things in a tablet. handwriting recognition that works for me(okay that's hard I admit it), A battery that can last all day between charges with Wi-FI enabled. And Under 3 pounds in overall weight. why can't anything come close? The Nokia 770 is tempting but I have to find out if i can add software to it. Like a Bash shell, and SSh client, and an IRC client.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: blogged about it
by ormandj on Tue 7th Mar 2006 23:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: blogged about it"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

You seem to be pretty much on the mark to me. I think the biggest issue is battery technology, as you mentioned. If I could buy a tablet that would run a full day, I'd spend thousands for it. I wouldn't spend a dime on a tablet that runs 3. ;)

Well, another issue with Tablets, they really aren't any more/better than a laptop. It's quicker to type for *most* people who use a computer fairly often than it is to hand-write things. It's basically a solution to a problem that really doesn't exist. That's why all incarnations of it have failed. Not to mention some people like myself (and it seems you) have terrible handwriting. We might as well forget having any kind of character recognition for our writing. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: blogged about it
by hobgoblin on Wed 8th Mar 2006 01:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: blogged about it"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

about newton:
last time i read anything about that device, it still have a community around it. what killed it was not batterylife, apple killed it (or maybe steve jobs). basicly they just pulled the production of it, on something that was making them money from what i have read.

not a apple fan. but i may be going of fan-written material so please, fact check my statements ;)

about the 770:

bash shell, check
ssh client, check
irc client, check (xchat. alltho i guess a terminal based on should work fine ones you get bash going)

its a fully working linux enviroment, in you hand.

http://maemo.org/ is the homepage of the platform/interface the 770 uses. go have a look around.

Edited 2006-03-08 01:35

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: blogged about it
by Eugenia on Tue 7th Mar 2006 23:02 UTC in reply to "RE: blogged about it"
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

Isn't this what I said on my blog too? You didn't quote the next paragraph on my blog, which is exactly what I say about the issue too. So, I don't get this reply of yours. You are just duplicating what I said about money and power.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: blogged about it
by ormandj on Tue 7th Mar 2006 23:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: blogged about it"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

You specifically said: "So why is this new Origami project generates so much buzz while Be/QNX have both failed, I don't know."

Then: "But nevertheless, the Origami project is not a new idea, but it does get all the hype in the world, because it is backed by MS and Intel. This is a good example how lots of money can create lots of interest. You need money in order to make more money. Having a cool idea is *not* enough."

I answered your question, nothing more. You ask why Origami gets buzz, and Be/QNX failed in this market.

You toss out a (thought? I'm not familiar with blogging terminology) that suggests Origami is an old idea rehashed with lots of marketing funds, and state having a cool idea is not enough.

Yes, my response is very much parallel to your (thought?) However, you said you do not know what the answer to your question was. So I answered it.

Honestly, I didn't even remember reading that in your blog. I must have had a brain-fart and completely skipped your last paragraph (odd... but I won't rule it out). My apologies. If I had read it, I simply would have replied "read your fourth paragraph for the answer to your question in the 3rd paragraph."

It seems my problem is my non-understanding of how a blog works. I suppose you can postulate questions, as if speaking to the sky, and answer them in the next paragraph instead of simply correcting your question into a statement? Pah, I knew I hated blogs for a reason. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: blogged about it
by Eugenia on Tue 7th Mar 2006 23:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: blogged about it"
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

That was a RHETORIC question, not a real one! I obviously answered that very question on the next paragraph, that you have now quoted. ;)

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: blogged about it
by ormandj on Tue 7th Mar 2006 23:25 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: blogged about it"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

Hehe. ;) Well, either way, no offense was intended nor did I want to belittle your own writing. Just an honest mistake/misunderstanding of blogs and apparently a mis-reading. ;)

As a side note, I thought more about it, I really can't ever see carrying a tablet. Too easy to break, I can't stick it in my pocket (and if I could the screen would be too small.) I'd rather just have a laptop in a bag - oh wait, I already do. ;)

I think the only time these things will be viable is when you can stick a little box in your pocket, plug a wire into some glasses and have a 60" display (or one appearing so) at a decent resolution, and some method of input that doesn't rely on typing/speaking. I don't want to be in public shouting at my computer to reboot on a BSOD, nor do I want to type on air like an idiot. Thought-computing, thank you very much!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: blogged about it
by hobgoblin on Wed 8th Mar 2006 01:22 UTC in reply to "blogged about it"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

two things:

first of all, this baby runs full version windows. this means people can take their exiting software (including games) and run them on it. this allows for a much quicker uptake.

second, you image link (to a google search) includes images of the nokia 770. from what i read, this device have not flopped. hell, even nokia was surprised about the interest.

why?

its running a full linux system. it even allows more or less rapid porting of gnome apps. iirc, even gaim is allready available on it. and with a bluetooth keyboard (complete with drivers, supplyed by the community) you have a very potent tool in your pocket.

and from the looks of it, its even smaller then the "origami" device presented by intel and microsoft.

so its not so much about money as it is using existing marketshare to get a new device out (hell, antitrust?).

so you dont need money directly, but you need to get noticed. and you need software. a platform without software is dead in the water.

the origami have the enormous windows "empire" behind it. the 770 have the linux comunity backing it all the way. what did the BE and QNX devices have?

so in the end its not so much about money as it is about "community"...

btw, why not "blog" here on osnews ;) why do it on slashdot? and if your going to do it on slashdot, allow people to comment on it there ;)

Edited 2006-03-08 01:38

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: blogged about it
by Brendan on Wed 8th Mar 2006 04:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: blogged about it"
Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

Hi,

first of all, this baby runs full version windows. this means people can take their exiting software (including games) and run them on it. this allows for a much quicker uptake.

Are you sure about that? For example, any software that does "Press any key to continue" is going to be a problem, and writing a word document by cutting and pasting words from a dictionary might be a bit hard (assuming there's a fast alternative to "control+C" and "control+V").

I don't know - maybe there'll be a virtual keyboard on the screen where you can touch the virtual keys, but then the virtual keyboard will probably take up most of the screen making it fairly hard see what you're doing.

What it really needs is software designed to work without a keyboard, but I can't think of much here - a few games and a web browser (as long as you don't go want to reply on forums, etc).

Perhaps speech recognition might be a viable alternative - otherwise handwriting a letter might be easier than sending an email...

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: blogged about it
by hobgoblin on Wed 8th Mar 2006 22:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: blogged about it"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

ok, so there are some issues like that. but still, those a relative minor as they can have the 5-way thumb button (or whatever) on the side register as the four arrow keys and the enter key on a normal keyboard, problem solved.

cut, copy & paste? programable hotkeys maybe? i dont know but it looks like there are some buttons on that thing.

allso, most software that have that allso have them as toolbar buttons, or menu options...

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: blogged about it
by Soulbender on Wed 8th Mar 2006 12:20 UTC in reply to "blogged about it"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

How exactly has QNX failed? Having one of the biggest router manufacturers in the world use your RTOS isnt exactly a failure. Maybe you ment mobile devices that happened to use QNX' RTOS? That's not a failure for QNX itself though.

Reply Score: 1

RE: blogged about it
by memson on Wed 8th Mar 2006 13:25 UTC in reply to "blogged about it"
memson Member since:
2006-01-01

Eugenia is right. These devices look enough like the old Dt300 I used to own running BeIA. Cool little device, had the WiFi been something other than some proprietry proxim one, I would still own/use it.

Also have to point out... BeIA was a fairly full OS under Wagner. If you quit Wagner, you booted into Tracker...

The problem with BeIA was that it was unfinished (at least the engineering samples I used.) Wagner was fairly stable, but booting to Tracker proved that there were bits missing. Mostly this was the filesystem used (CFS rather than BFS) and the fact that all the Exe's were in "crushed" into CELF format (compressed ELF.) BeIA was fully expandable if you didn't compress the apps (and compressing the apps was not mandatory, though it halved the install base) - indeed a lot of R4.5 and a number od R5 apps and drivers will work with BeIA so long as the OS was not crushed.

Reply Score: 1

Seems bulky
by diginux on Tue 7th Mar 2006 22:11 UTC
diginux
Member since:
2005-07-06

Is it just me, or does it look like it came from the 90s?

Reply Score: 1

ugly
by 2501 on Tue 7th Mar 2006 22:15 UTC
2501
Member since:
2005-07-14

it looks like a brick.

i think cellphones is te way to go. i do not want another device running windows. can they nake something simple?????

-2501

Reply Score: 1

Could be useful...
by tmock on Tue 7th Mar 2006 22:34 UTC
tmock
Member since:
2006-03-07

...for schools who are in the process of deploying new wireless laptop labs. Schools might want to start thinking about how Origami will unfold.

Reply Score: 1

What about power
by Umbra on Tue 7th Mar 2006 22:35 UTC
Umbra
Member since:
2006-03-06

What about powering the device ?

I can't see the accompanying nuclear power station for the 7 inch Orgasmi anywhere . . . sorry spelling error ~ gulp ~ . . Origami ? (was that the right spelling?)
..

Edited 2006-03-07 22:37

Reply Score: 1

RE: What about power
by ormandj on Tue 7th Mar 2006 22:38 UTC in reply to "What about power"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

It's just a laptop. It'll probably have a fairly close/slightly smaller to full laptop sized battery. It's smaller physically because it lacks the big screen, keyboard, etc. It's got all the rest of the parts from laptops, which run 3 hours no problem. It's got a smaller screen so it'll draw less power too. ;) A smaller watt-hour battery will be fine.

Reply Score: 1

Palm ?
by Umbra on Tue 7th Mar 2006 22:54 UTC
Umbra
Member since:
2006-03-06

So this is maybe just a king size Palm running Windows?

Is this the first Microsoft Computer ? (MS HW+OS in one package)

Reply Score: 1

If it's too big to hang from your belt...
by BBlalock on Tue 7th Mar 2006 23:13 UTC
BBlalock
Member since:
2006-01-15

It's too big to be ultra-portable.

A form factor slightly larger than a "normal" PDA would be great if it could run standard OS's and still be affordable.

Until then my ultra-portable PC will be a Palm.


Oh, BTW, will it run OSX86?

Reply Score: 1

JrezIN
Member since:
2005-06-29

What I see is just the transition between PDA/PocketPCs to full-featured like PCs in a more portable form...
The device has probably good processing power to handle booth the system of a standard PC on a standard x86 hardware, which basically already means a lot of software and also power to handle today's media formats. Not forgetting network/internet access (a must these days).

PDAs/PocketPCs won't live up too much, they are converging in cellphones.
So, PCs can now be portable and still have similar power to their desktop counterparts. The key here is to design a device for some target-customers, and also attach together all this different designs for different people and different usages. That's where Microsoft can make a difference, like they did with Direct3D, making the whole marketing talk similar languages and take similar paths instead of let the costumer worry about product X that will only work with product Y... May sound silly, but that's very important for brand recognition, and that's what Origami probably is... a design reference and a software package.

The actual devices? They may have a lot of differences from each other, or may even don't look so good right now, but they'll certainly evolve soon as hardware evolves too.

Reply Score: 1

origami for sale
by AdamW on Tue 7th Mar 2006 23:41 UTC
AdamW
Member since:
2005-07-06

http://dynamism.com/u50/main.shtml

someone at Microsoft needs to check Sony's product range once in a while...

Reply Score: 2

Already done..
by Milo_Hoffman on Tue 7th Mar 2006 23:50 UTC
Milo_Hoffman
Member since:
2005-07-06

There are ALREADY many people with mini-pcs like this.


Sharp has their excelllent stuff, and other companies already make little systems like this that run full blown Windows xp.

Sorry. Its boring, and if there was a real market for it then one of the exsisting companies products would be at Best Buy already.

Reply Score: 1

Too much
by miscz on Wed 8th Mar 2006 00:00 UTC
miscz
Member since:
2005-07-17

Origami tries to be everything - PDA and notebook at the same time. It fails as being any of them - it's too big to be carried everywhere and it's too uncomfortable to use it as a normal PC.

BTW, did I see Halo on this device or am I going mad? Are they going to market it toward gamers? o.O

Reply Score: 1

RE: Too much
by CPUGuy on Wed 8th Mar 2006 00:03 UTC in reply to "Too much"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

They had Halo running at like 2FPS (probably just showing that it is indeed full-blown Windows).

The device itself is being marketed as something to use around the house and for the $500 mark. It's not meant to be taken around everywhere, just around the house.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Too much
by miscz on Wed 8th Mar 2006 10:30 UTC in reply to "RE: Too much"
miscz Member since:
2005-07-17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV1WGDW37c0

This seems like an official advertisement and there is a guy playing Halo. Other stuff they show can be easily accomplished using simple and much smaller PDA.

Edited 2006-03-08 10:33

Reply Score: 1

re: batteries
by CPUGuy on Wed 8th Mar 2006 00:01 UTC
CPUGuy
Member since:
2005-07-06

The next crop of laptops and tablets have fuel cells (like the ones that are coming out within the next 8 weeks or so) which run between 6-8 hours.

Reply Score: 1

RE: re: batteries
by fyysik on Wed 8th Mar 2006 03:27 UTC in reply to "re: batteries"
fyysik Member since:
2006-02-19

They will. Maybe.
Until get Vista installed.
Where will run again 1-2 hours.

Reply Score: 1

mouse pointer
by sanctus on Wed 8th Mar 2006 02:56 UTC
sanctus
Member since:
2005-08-31

is there a patch to microsoft OS that disable the mouse pointer when there's no mouse connected? Dont know why, but that always annoy me...

Concerning the market, I think there's probably one, but sharp, sony nor Nokia with there 770 knew what to do with their marketing department. Do they have one?

Reply Score: 1

Origami buzz
by gonzalo on Wed 8th Mar 2006 06:33 UTC
gonzalo
Member since:
2005-07-06

Is this really generating so much buzz? I mean we had the 'intriguing website' a couple of days before the announcement. And on that same day, that leaked video.

But then... I don't know you, but I didn't hear anything more about it until today. The announcement went pretty much unnoticed, because everyone knew already what it would be about and it was nothing new. And "all the buzz" sort of just fizzled out. At least as far as I'm concerned.
Has there really been any buzz or even talk around this that I've missed?

Reply Score: 1

Time and market is the answer
by Chreo on Wed 8th Mar 2006 13:54 UTC
Chreo
Member since:
2005-07-06

Origami like devices are nothing new per se but there is a reason why it's generating more buzz than deserved. The market is ready. Since Newton, BeIA and PDA devices the whole cellphone market has exploded from just being voice only to be media devices. At the same time laptops have been steadily increasing in sales. We've gotten used to be much more mobile.

Now, many have found that they DON'T need a full laptop do do most their mobile computing needs but need something bigger and more capable than a cellphone or a PDA. THe cellphone and PDA is simply too small (screen-wise) for useful webbrowsing and quick input. The PDA is nice but still to limited in both size and foremost lacking in capabilities that we're used to in a laptop. Enter the origami device, nothing new but completely right in todays market which is what previous attemts have not been. I can see this almost completely replacing the laptop (except for uses where you need quick keyboard typing and more powerful computing capabilities -> desktop replacements).

Sure MS marketing plays a part but the market is ready now and that is the big difference.

Edited 2006-03-08 13:56

Reply Score: 1

Ahem
by Sphinx on Wed 8th Mar 2006 15:16 UTC
Sphinx
Member since:
2005-07-09

Looks like they've been out shopping.
http://www.fullsack.com/cart/000233.jpg

<cough>rip-off</cough>
Second demo site for those was coincidentally only about 15 miles from Intel hq.

Reply Score: 1

why?
by Drawnstories_studios on Thu 9th Mar 2006 07:44 UTC
Drawnstories_studios
Member since:
2005-12-12

cant anyone just make a smaller cheeper, more powerful computer that uses tested tried and true technology to get the same job done better?

like a little pad 'n screen with only twenty buttons that could be played like a video game. you could type with different combinations. like dynasty warriors. yeah. or the two towers.

triangle triangle ex!!!!! (ork hewer I believe)

I appologize I had to. you know no one would do the sensible thing, its just to cheep and possible. it has to be bigger and better. like selling cars for the high gallons of gas used up in a mile as a mark of quality. only Microsoft........(and maybe a neo con)

Reply Score: 1