Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 9th Mar 2006 17:43 UTC, submitted by HeLfReZ
Novell and Ximian "SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop is an all-in-one solution that contains technology innovations and usability breakthroughs including integrated desktop search, accelerated graphical interfaces and numerous application improvements. SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop delivers market-leading usability plus an exceptional end user experience with an easy-to-use and easy-to-learn environment. Seamless interoperability and support for standards allows SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop to readily coexists with Windows, Mac, Unix and other operating systems." The preview page has some screenshots and a screencast. My take: And there was much rejoicing. I'm seriously looking forward to this release.
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v sorry but there are no NEW "bits"
by stephanem on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:02 UTC
thecwin Member since:
2006-01-04

Well their work on Xgl and Compiz is pretty good... and I've not seen that start menu like thing anywhere else (admittedly I don't think it's that great..)

Reply Score: 5

mike hess Member since:
2005-08-22

Actually, most of the "projects started long ago" are led by Novell employees. David Reveman (Xgl), Nat Friedman (Beagle, Hula), Miguel de Icaza (Mono), F-spot...

Many of these projects were started before Novell hired the developers, but they still deserve credit for funding the projects and keeping them GPL.

there isn't one feature I cannot get from adding the bits to CentOS or Fedora

Would you prefer Novell closed the source code? I would not.

Reply Score: 5

DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

You make great points but I'm a little confused by your saying that they're great for "Keeping them [novell's projects] GPL." What do you mean? I was under the impression that once something is GPL licensed it can never be placed under any other license again.

If you could simply "close the source" (that is change the license mid stream) on something we'd call it BSD. GPL != BSD, and that's why the GPL exists.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

Reply Score: 1

elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

You make great points but I'm a little confused by your saying that they're great for "Keeping them [novell's projects] GPL." What do you mean? I was under the impression that once something is GPL licensed it can never be placed under any other license again.

If you could simply "close the source" (that is change the license mid stream) on something we'd call it BSD. GPL != BSD, and that's why the GPL exists.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...


No, if they obtained the copyrights for the software when they acquired Ximian (for example), they can simply re-release the software with any modifications or improvements under a closed license. The GPL would prevent non-copyright holders from doing the same thing, and it would ensure that the pre-closed source remains available with a GPL license.

Generally speaking, closing source is frowned upon but it's not unprecedented.

BSD would allow anyone to take the code and change the license.

Reply Score: 5

dumbkiwi Member since:
2006-01-02

BSD would allow anyone to take the code and change the license.

No it wouldn't.

Reply Score: 3

dr_gonzo Member since:
2005-07-06

The BSD license allows people to make changes to the code and not release the changes' source code. I think that's what he meant.

Reply Score: 2

kadymae Member since:
2005-08-02

You can also layer another licence over the BSD license.

The BSD Licence is the super-sculpty of the software world.

Reply Score: 1

present_arms Member since:
2005-07-09

What would happen is if they took the program out of GPL licence is that at the point that it's no longer GPL a fork of it would appear based on the code that was still GPL'd

Reply Score: 3

gamehack Member since:
2005-06-29

I think you're wrong (but I might be too). The point is that if all the developers agree, they CAN change the license for any release AFTER the current snapshot. What they cannot do is relicense releases which were under the GPL. That's how I think it works but I'm not sure. Anyone competent on that issue?

Regards

Reply Score: 2

eMagius Member since:
2005-07-06

If you could simply "close the source" (that is change the license mid stream) on something we'd call it BSD. GPL != BSD, and that's why the GPL exists.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...


You're incredibly wrong.

Reply Score: 1

bytecoder Member since:
2005-11-27


And you're one arrogant geek...

Yes, this comment includes personal attacks/offensive language

Aside from that, you're also wrong. Just because one chooses not to release the source code of bsd-licensed software doesn't somehow change the fact that it's still bsd licensed.

My take on the new suse desktop: it sucks. It doesn't matter how many usability tests you perform, if you just test a bunch of crappy interfaces you'll still get a crappy interface when you come out of it--it'll just be less crappy than the others you tested.

Reply Score: 0

DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

Thanks for the (mostly) helpful replies. I understand better now.

Reply Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"If you could simply "close the source" (that is change the license mid stream) on something we'd call it BSD."

It's nice to see that the GPL FUD machine is still alive and well. With the risk of beating the already dead horse into groundbeef I'll just state that you cant close BSD source any more than you can close GPL source. Period. End of story.

Reply Score: 0

DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

I don't think you understood what I was saying, and I'm not spreading fud.

You can fork a BSD project and never release the code, even if you're not the copyright holder.

Either way you can't retroactively "change" a license. You can fork originally BSD'd code but the original code is still BSD, thus still "open source".

And if you're going to just tell me that you can't "close source" something at least explain why. You complain about FUD but you don't do much to stop or combat it other than tell someone they're wrong. Explain why they're wrong and help them understand a little better, so they don't inadvertently start spreading FUD.

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"You can fork a BSD project and never release the code, even if you're not the copyright holder.

Either way you can't retroactively "change" a license. You can fork originally BSD'd code but the original code is still BSD, thus still "open source"."

Exactly. The original source code cant be closed. Closing forks isnt the same closing the code.

Reply Score: 0

sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

That's not the point.

The point is that it's all packaged together nicely without having to add anything yourself.

The end product is better.

Reply Score: 5

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

This is more than just the sum of its parts. And the fact that Novell can ship it ahead of Vista is a major plus. I'm willing to shell out for this product, provided it comes with and sets up the 'non-free' stuff I normally setup manually.

Reply Score: 5

sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Oh I know. I was just trying to simplify it for the guy.

I may actually shell out just to try this.

Reply Score: 1

Rodrigo Member since:
2005-07-06

I just hope I can install it on mine Acer Travelmate 8104 notebook, installing Linux on that thing seems nearly impossible ;)

Having that assured, I would also pay for the new Suse happily.

Reply Score: 1

ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

They just rearranged the GNOME menu and added the open sauce .Net apps Miguel and the gang were working on.

I liked the mockups better. I'll pass.

Reply Score: 3

cendrizzi Member since:
2005-07-08

Sorry but you are not the person this is going after. Did you read "Enterprise". This is for workplaces. You know, those places that need a nice packaged product with support? I don't know many administrators that have time to tinker each person's Centos to offer what this does (of course there's also that matter of, YOU CAN'T, since this offers many integrations and changes that won't be possible on those distros unless you love compiling)

Reply Score: 5

digitaldisaster Member since:
2006-01-02

Never mind the fact that IBM just announced it intends to move all of its desktops to Linux instead of Vista and all of those JDS licenses Sun sold...

Reply Score: 3

binarycrusader Member since:
2005-07-06

Have you also read the countless comments and bits of info lying around where it has been pointed out consistently that there is no such market for enterprise desktop Linux? It doesn't exist.

Saying that a thing does not exist, does not make such a statement true.

Reply Score: 3

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

I know people around here don't like this, but it is going to be repeated again, and again, and again and again until someone comes up with a worthwhile answer. I know some of you have some psychological issues about being told that the enterprise Linux desktop market doesn't exist, but, you can always come up with some evidence otherwise. Can't you?

Saying that a thing does not exist, does not make such a statement true.

Ha, ha, ha, ha. Nice vagueness, which a lot of people tend to do when this is brought up.

You tell me, and preferably give me some figures, as to how many major enterprises, large companies, governments and such like have rolled out, and deployed, enterprise Linux desktops such as the NLD and you tell me how much revenue it's bringing in for companies like Novell. For example:

http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/linux/story/0,10801,.....

Once companies realize how painlessly they can integrate a Linux desktop into an enterprise dominated by Windows, the trend to use Linux alongside or to replace Windows in the enterprise should catch fire by 2008, Jaffe said.

"I don't think mass migrations will come until 2007, maybe 2008, but this is the year to really prepare for it," he said.


How many times has that been repeated since circa 2000?

There is no market, as it stands, for enterprise desktop Linux, and anyone who thinks there is has been raiding the koolaid cupboard. There is no such thing as a corporate desktop Linux distribution, since corporates just aren't using it.

Trying to say a thing does exist, without any evidence whatsoever (and with several years of evidence to the contrary actually), quite clearly makes that statement false in this context.

Edited 2006-03-10 12:53

Reply Score: 0

chemical_scum Member since:
2005-11-02

You tell me, and preferably give me some figures, as to how many major enterprises, large companies, governments and such like have rolled out, and deployed, enterprise Linux desktops such as the NLD and you tell me how much revenue it's bringing in for companies like Novell. For example:

http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/linux/story/0,10801,.......

Respnse to above link:

"The page you requested cannot be found.

You can attempt to search for the page using the search box above or use our advanced search for more options. If you continue having problems, you can e-mail help@computerworld.com for assistance."

BTW Novell and now IBM are eating their own dog food, these examples will eventually have an effect on corporate uptake of the Linux desktop.

Reply Score: 1

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Nice try ;-). I see that someone who can't respond smiled and modded your comment up :-).

OSNews helpfully truncates the link. Try reading the original comment:

http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/linux/story/0,10801,...

Edited 2006-03-10 15:22

Reply Score: 0

Confused
by tristan on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:05 UTC
tristan
Member since:
2006-02-01

Well, you can't get that "start menu" Gnome panel object in Fedora (yet)...

But seriously, this is a good looking distro. I'm a little confused by the name though. "SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop" -- is this the new name for Novell Linux Desktop, or are they separate products? These screenshots -- with the "start menu" etc -- certainly look like the NLD10 preview we saw Nat give a few weeks ago...

Also, since when did SUSE use Gnome as default? That's going to rattle a few cages...

Reply Score: 3

RE: Confused
by somebody on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:59 UTC in reply to "Confused"
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

Well, you can't get that "start menu" Gnome panel object in Fedora (yet)..

Actualy,... you can. Novell already put it to mainstream repositories for everyone to be available. As it did with YaST and iFolder.

What it makes most interesting for me in Novell Linux is AppArmour. After seeing the simplicity my jaw droped down on floor. And there is a benefit of supporting every app, not just compiled with support like SELinux needs.

Second fact where it is interesting is xen integration (and the packages that were not so ancient as in other distros). But since Fedora moved on 3.0 for FC5 there's no problem too, but I seriously hope AppArmour will be suported there.

Reply Score: 2

v Not Exciting
by Mr. Dee on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:18 UTC
RE: Not Exciting
by siride on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:24 UTC in reply to "Not Exciting"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

XGL can do all that. Just because they didn't put transparency and colorful windows in those particular screenshots, doesn't mean that it's not supported.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Not Exciting
by somebody on Thu 9th Mar 2006 19:04 UTC in reply to "Not Exciting"
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

It does not look like what I saw in the demos last month with the transparency and colourful windows. Bah! I'm looking forward to Vista and OS 10.5

Now, you might set a new definition of stupid and ignorant here.

It is XGL and Compiz in both cases. But since they haven't put a screenshot of every feature they provide, it doesn't mean it is not there.

Reply Score: 1

v RE[2]: Not Exciting
by Mr. Dee on Thu 9th Mar 2006 22:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Not Exciting"
RE[2]: Not Exciting
by ceo1 on Thu 9th Mar 2006 19:18 UTC in reply to "Not Exciting"
ceo1 Member since:
2006-02-02

Mr. Dee, you do not sound like the client Novell is after. If your main gripes with an OS are transparency and colourful windows, I suggest you go with Etch-a-sketch or perhaps Toys'r OS.

Reply Score: 4

what IS Suse Enterprise Desktop?
by REMF on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:19 UTC
REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

is it the new version of SUSE Enterprise?
is it the new version of Novel Linux Desktop?
is it a commercial repackaging of SUSE 10.1?
is it something else entirely?

oh, and I love KDE Suse! *shakes fists impotently at Novel*

Reply Score: 4

Celerate Member since:
2005-06-29

I love KDE too and was worried about it's future in SUSE Linux after Novell decided to drop official support for it. These features are nice, but all the screenshots look like a Gnome derived environment.

Hopefully these nice features will be available to KDE users of OpenSUSE.

Reply Score: 2

luser Member since:
2005-08-31

I love KDE too and was worried about it's future in SUSE Linux after Novell decided to drop official support for it.

No, they don't. Both GNOME and KDE are shipped and supported in their enterprise distros: http://www.novell.com/prblogs/index.php?title=kde_and_gnome

Reply Score: 1

Cool.
by jakesdad on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:23 UTC
jakesdad
Member since:
2005-12-28

I to am looking forward to this. I cant wait to install it.
I guess I could install it now from factory,, but I got 10 running pretty well. So I'll wait until the actual release before I move forward.
Say what you want, the linux "desktop" is coming into its own and thats nice to see.
as for adding the bits to centOS/fedora do it.. Thats what is cool about linux/oss.

Reply Score: 2

um
by spikeb on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:27 UTC
spikeb
Member since:
2006-01-18

then what is Novell Linux Desktop? Wasn't THAT supposed to be the business desktop?

Reply Score: 2

RE: um
by elsewhere on Thu 9th Mar 2006 19:58 UTC in reply to "um"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

then what is Novell Linux Desktop? Wasn't THAT supposed to be the business desktop?

This is effectively NLD 10, although the name change surprised me. No doubt they're a) creating brand cohesiveness with SLES (Suse Linux Enterprise Server) and b) capitalizing on the fact that the Suse brandname is more established in the commercial linux space than Novell's is. Or Ximian, for that matter, which is ironic because NLD AFAIK is based on the old Ximian desktop and not Suse.

Novell has been criticized by analysts in the past for not clearly delineating their linux products from their legacy Netware etc. products, maybe this is an attempt at re-positioning?

No doubt there will be confusion between Novell's Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop and openSuse's Suse Linux, which are two seperate products and not necessarily interchangeable.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: um
by segedunum on Thu 9th Mar 2006 20:50 UTC in reply to "RE: um"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

This is effectively NLD 10, although the name change surprised me. No doubt they're a) creating brand cohesiveness with SLES (Suse Linux Enterprise Server) and b) capitalizing on the fact that the Suse brandname is more established in the commercial linux space than Novell's is.

Hmmmm. Can't understand that one at all.

Reply Score: 0

Clean
by CuriosityKills on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:27 UTC
CuriosityKills
Member since:
2005-07-10

Wow finally a linux desktop that is clean and aesthetic. I would love to try this.

One of the big reason I never liked linux on desktop was that its UI never felt smooth. Looks like that's changing finally.

Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; Sprint:PPC-6700; PPC; 240x320)

Reply Score: 2

We've been through this before.
by JMcCarthy on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:34 UTC
JMcCarthy
Member since:
2005-08-12

If you want KDE you have OpenSUSE. Quit bitching.

Reply Score: 1

uberness
by SEJeff on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:37 UTC
SEJeff
Member since:
2005-11-05

Novell has corporately funded items of interest such as:
-Fspot
-Beagle
-iFolder
-Visual Basic macro support for OpenOffice.org
-the new menu in gnome-panel (codename the slab I believe)
-Xgl/compiz/x.org work

They even made it all work together seamlessly (in their products). Some of this software (like the slab) will not be released to the open source community until after they officially release Novell Linux Desktop 10, but so what.

Thanks to Novell, the Linux Desktop as a whole is improving from great hackers funded by them. Take a look at the blog of Federico:
http://primates.ximian.com/~federico/news-2006-03.html#login-time-1

Superhacker if you ask me.

Reply Score: 5

New desktop theme
by null_pointer_us on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:57 UTC
null_pointer_us
Member since:
2005-08-19

I don't like the new theme. There's too much contrast (black lines in white background) and none of the pretty "3D" edges we've had since Windows 95. The controls don't seem to line up very well (double black lines in places) for this color scheme. The window borders aren't antialiased, and this is especially obvious in the plain white background window title bars.

Hopefully this isn't the final version. Vista looks better, frankly. I wouldn't pay money for Novell's new desktop. FC5 looks to include many of the "next generation" features like integrated search and some tasteful accelerated eye candy like drop shadows. If Novell could put together a decent theme to pair with their XGL effects, then it might sell.

And yes, I realize how easy it is to change the Gnome/GTK+ theme. That's not the point. They're showcasing a bad theme IMO.

Reply Score: 4

RE: New desktop theme
by 2fargone on Thu 9th Mar 2006 19:55 UTC in reply to "New desktop theme"
2fargone Member since:
2006-02-20

Your post demonstrates the need on both sides to provide more than one 'default' theme, and to make it easy to change that theme.

Because IMO, I like Novell's theme and I think Vista is really ugly (I've used Aero). Some like chocolate, some like vanilla, some like strawberry, and some like all three, some hate all three. Taste is so subjective.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: New desktop theme
by Pseudo Cyborg on Thu 9th Mar 2006 23:19 UTC in reply to "RE: New desktop theme"
Pseudo Cyborg Member since:
2005-07-09

Very well said, 2fargone.

Reply Score: 1

RE: New desktop theme
by somebody on Thu 9th Mar 2006 21:01 UTC in reply to "New desktop theme"
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

If Novell could put together a decent theme to pair with their XGL effects, then it might sell.

1. What is easier than install a new theme?
2. Isn't it nicer to have one really good theme (yes, I consider this theme as very good default, the last thing I would like to see is something photo-ish and flashy like OSX has. Vista fares a much better ride with their default theme, although still to flashy) for default?

You might like Ubutu Human theme. http://perkypants.org/blog/2006/03/08/dancing-for-human-beings/

I don't, it is not simple and descriptive as default Tango.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: New desktop theme
by Pseudo Cyborg on Thu 9th Mar 2006 23:24 UTC in reply to "RE: New desktop theme"
Pseudo Cyborg Member since:
2005-07-09

"Isn't it nicer to have one really good theme"

If such a thing existed, it would. The problem with people, however, is that their human and have preferences. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: New desktop theme
by somebody on Fri 10th Mar 2006 19:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: New desktop theme"
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

If such a thing existed, it would. The problem with people, however, is that their human and have preferences. ;)

Words of truth, brother. ;)

But look from a different perspective. More obvious to everybody. This is why I prefer simple and colorsynced themes like Gnome default as default. They are simply much more obvious to Joe User (where granma with bad eyes should know what icons mean. Cartoonish and color limited icons offer best results here). And anyone better than Joe User shouldn't have problem to install theme of his preference.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: New desktop theme
by Pseudo Cyborg on Fri 10th Mar 2006 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: New desktop theme"
Pseudo Cyborg Member since:
2005-07-09

"More obvious to everybody."

Wow. That needs to be the UI design mantra.

I, too, prefer the default Gnome themes, specifically what the Fedora Project is doing. This new Novell theme, however, is unbelievably amazing. I definitely want to give this one a go.

Reply Score: 1

Some concerns.
by mike hess on Thu 9th Mar 2006 18:57 UTC
mike hess
Member since:
2005-08-22

I have a mostly positive additude toward Novell and the work they are doing. I may even pay for the new system when it is released.

However, does anyone know if they are using non-Free software in the final version? And what is the policy on redistribution? If i buy a copy, is it legal to install it on all my machines? What about friend's machines?

And what about updates and new releases?

I like the work they are doing, but if using their system comes with all the "usual" restrictions, i think i'll stick with Ubuntu and Arch...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Some concerns.
by ryan on Thu 9th Mar 2006 19:33 UTC in reply to "Some concerns."
ryan Member since:
2005-07-06

Can't say for sure, of course, but it would be reasonable to speculate that they would do a release like they do with NLD9 where you can download an "evaluation" copy which is a registration-required free-cost copy of the full OS but limited to prevent product updates without purchase.

Reply Score: 1

ewwwwwwwwwww
by drewunwired on Thu 9th Mar 2006 19:20 UTC
drewunwired
Member since:
2005-07-06

Holy crap, that QT engine (see the YaST screenshot) is ugly!

That being said, the GTK theme they're using is nice and "professional." I like what Novell is doing thus far... I hope the result looks as good and performs better.

Reply Score: 1

RE: ewwwwwwwwwww
by Celerate on Thu 9th Mar 2006 22:19 UTC in reply to "ewwwwwwwwwww"
Celerate Member since:
2005-06-29

"that QT engine (see the YaST screenshot) is ugly! "

The Qt engine is fine, the theme they're using isn't. Qt and Yast look great with any good theme, but that theme which I believe is called platinum isn't really eye candy. Yast uses that theme outside of KDE for some reason instead of picking something slightly better looking, it's not Qt's fault since it's capable of looking far better.

Reply Score: 3

Pardon?
by segedunum on Thu 9th Mar 2006 19:45 UTC
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

And what's with this 'SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop' name? I thought that was the Novell Linux Desktop? Suse did have a similar product both before and during their sale to Novell, and it sold very poorly - just like every other enterprise Linux desktop...

Reply Score: 0

RE: Pardon?
by Dark_Knight on Thu 9th Mar 2006 22:42 UTC in reply to "Pardon?"
Dark_Knight Member since:
2005-07-10

It's possible Novell is changing the name Novell Linux Desktop to SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED). This would make sense since it can cause confusion for consumers trying to distinguish between NLD and SUSE Linux both of which are basically the same. This would also appear more professional with SUSE Linux Enterprise Server in combination with SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop.

Edited 2006-03-09 22:44

Reply Score: 1

Why not NELD?
by hraq on Thu 9th Mar 2006 21:33 UTC
hraq
Member since:
2005-07-06

I suggest these namings:
1. Novell Enterpirse Linux Desktop (NELD)
2. Novell Enterprise Linux Workstation (NELW)
3. Novell Enterprise Linux (Basic, Advanced, Ultimate)Server (NELS-A, NELS-B, NELS-U)

Reply Score: 2

Pretty clunky looking...
by SpasmaticSeacow on Thu 9th Mar 2006 21:40 UTC
SpasmaticSeacow
Member since:
2006-02-17

Personally, I use KDE, but you can dress up GNOME just as easily to make it aesthetically pleasing.

Their screenshots are just plain ugly. Very uncompelling. The YaST stuff and XP-start panel knock-off are not only bland, but poorly laid out/spaced. The fonts they use are also pretty poor.

If they are going to spend money mucking with the desktop UI, better they should hire some UI designers and a few graphics artists to help make it look good.

If they are going to do Compiz, how about enhancements to the UI like reduce brightness on non-active windows (maybe add a slight blur to them), or drop-shadows. Maybe have 2 resize options -- resize the window dimesions, resize the window scale...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Pretty clunky looking...
by nicholas on Thu 9th Mar 2006 22:01 UTC in reply to "Pretty clunky looking..."
nicholas Member since:
2005-07-07

"If they are going to do Compiz, how about enhancements to the UI like reduce brightness on non-active windows (maybe add a slight blur to them)"

Great idea, not!

How in God's name do you think blurring out-of-focus windows would in anyway enhance usability?

Reading blurred text from another window isn't my idea of usable.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Pretty clunky looking...
by segedunum on Fri 10th Mar 2006 00:00 UTC in reply to "Pretty clunky looking..."
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

and XP-start panel knock-off are not only bland, but poorly laid out/spaced.

Agreed. Novell's employees have abviously told them that Gnome's top bar thing doesn't work. They'll probably reverse the button ordering as well. It's a real XP start menu knock-off, and ironically, one of the things open source people have supposedly been complaining about with Windows.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Pretty clunky looking...
by SlackerJack on Fri 10th Mar 2006 00:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Pretty clunky looking..."
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

Yes the XP start menu is a shambles, the Novell menu is MUCH better. If you called this "but poorly laid out/spaced. " then you really know nothing about UI design, it's never been easier to search and look for your data in Linux and a major step forward.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Pretty clunky looking...
by JCooper on Fri 10th Mar 2006 01:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Pretty clunky looking..."
JCooper Member since:
2005-07-06

I find it strange how the screenshots and Nat's demo show BEST rather than Holmes. I also think they've missed something with that "computer" menu - it's a pretty big pane, so why the hell does searching for something open yet another window? The only concept (unfortunately not implementation) I think MS has got right with Vista, is having search results right there where you type the search terms in the start menu. With this wider panel, the area where the application shortcuts are could be replaced with a search-as-you-type feature. Pressing escape, or clicking a cleanup icon (like that in Banshee's search field) would close the search results and display the applications once more.

Further to that, I also think the seperate window to find the application you're after is the wrong approach. While this is acceptable on a Mac, coming from fd.o standardised menus/categories in Gnome/KDE until now, this is a step backwards. OK the categories are still there, but its more of a pain to get to them. Also, again, the search-as-you-type finding of applications (a la Deskbar) should be right there in the computer menu, making opening an app (assuming the search entry has focus as soon as the computer menu opens) as easy as click (or superkey) > type > hit enter.

Anyway, its open source, hopefully other distributors will get this packaged up and available soon so pedantic people like me can actually use the concept rather than just comment on screenshots etc ;)

Edited 2006-03-10 01:10

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Pretty clunky looking...
by SlackerJack on Fri 10th Mar 2006 02:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Pretty clunky looking..."
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

It prefer a new window than a side bar with all my apps in, it's just so much easier to see than scrolling down a ton of apps.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Pretty clunky looking...
by ronaldst on Fri 10th Mar 2006 01:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Pretty clunky looking..."
ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

I hope you're kidding. In case you haven't noticed...

There is a drop down listbox inside the menu.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Pretty clunky looking...
by SlackerJack on Fri 10th Mar 2006 02:20 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Pretty clunky looking..."
SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

Which has only three options.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Pretty clunky looking...
by ronaldst on Fri 10th Mar 2006 02:46 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Pretty clunky looking..."
ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

lol talk about amateurish. They just don't need Steve Jobs for their presentations. They needs Apple employees to do their UIs too. lol

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Pretty clunky looking...
by Pseudo Cyborg on Sat 11th Mar 2006 19:31 UTC in reply to "RE: Pretty clunky looking..."
Pseudo Cyborg Member since:
2005-07-09

And, apparantly, I can't move my toolbars around according to you? *rolls eyes*

Personally, I don't think it's a knock-off. If anything, it's a definite step forward. But that's just my opinion. ;)

Reply Score: 1

I say 2thumbs up...
by HeLfReZ on Thu 9th Mar 2006 22:26 UTC
HeLfReZ
Member since:
2005-08-12

I have personally tested this product and its no RHEW. The difference between this and slapping te free parts on top of fedora when available is that NLD will (IMO) be the first true COMMERCIAL linux distro DESIGNED to be a business desktop, with desktop users in mind. RHEW doesnt count cause its just a different package selection from RHEL, you can say MAYBE something like Mandriva..but again not really designed with a business desktop in mind. I think that this will have a much stronger impact than alot of techies give it credit for. Its really the first honest stab at creating a commercial linux desktop that may actually have a chance. If the pricing follows the same as NLD9 I will be preordering several copies. Sure you could do it with any distro, but could you do it with style...and then get commercial support for it? I think not....I say 2thumbs up for NLD10 and to Novell...

Reply Score: 2

Am I the only one who HATES the new menu?
by aent on Thu 9th Mar 2006 22:28 UTC
aent
Member since:
2006-01-25

I don't know about everyone else, but I absolutely hate the new "start menu". The new menu takes the worst of Windows XP (selecting random applications it thinks you might want and displaying them in random order) and combines it with the worst of OS X (not being able to access all applications in the menu and having to resort to opening another window to access all applications)

The old menu, on the other hand, took the best of Windows by having a common menu for all applications and improved on it by enforcing strict categories based on what the application does instead of some random information about it. Because of the awesome quick organization, it also allows applications to be opened at the same speed that the dock does. The current menu is the best of both worlds while the new Novell menu is the worst of both worlds.

Reply Score: 5

Dark_Knight Member since:
2005-07-10

While I see some great ideas being implemented with SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop I do agree that I don't like the new start menu, especially for an Enterprise desktop. The reason being Novell is marketing mainly to current Windows users, not just other Linux users or OSX users. So since Windows has for many years controlled the market share on the desktop then a Linux distribution should provide ease of migration if the developer in this case Novell wants to attract customers. Even though I can sort of understand Novell's approach to this concept by providing what they believe offers improved functionality I believe in the end it will just frustrate customers using the new menu (aka: Start Menu, KMenu, GMenu).

Edited 2006-03-09 23:01

Reply Score: 1

Nice
by andrewpl28 on Fri 10th Mar 2006 03:36 UTC
andrewpl28
Member since:
2005-07-11

I really like what they have done but the only thing I really dislike it the old gnome icons. I've used gnome and kde which i switch in between. But I really like kde icon themes because the old looking gnome icons make the system look really old. Hopefully, they will update those icons to something more sophisticated. If you look at Windows Media Center, Vista, Mac X, even KDE. All of these desktops have progressed while gnome hasn't. I mean in looks not performance because in that area I got to give to the gnome developer that they have done a great job and from whatching the video it seems that the desktop is very fast and responsive.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Nice
by chemical_scum on Fri 10th Mar 2006 16:00 UTC in reply to "Nice"
chemical_scum Member since:
2005-11-02

I really dislike it the old gnome icons. I've used gnome and kde which i switch in between. But I really like kde icon themes because the old looking gnome icons make the system look really old.

Chacun à son goût. One of the reasons I use GNOME rather than KDE is that I much prefer the icons and themes. The GNOME icons have a functional professional look while the KDE icons have the Fisher-Price kiddy toy look. But as I said Chacun à son goût.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Nice
by chemical_scum on Fri 10th Mar 2006 17:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Nice"
chemical_scum Member since:
2005-11-02

Yeah - whoever modded this comment down is not able to enter into any discussion on desktop preferences. As I said "Chacun à son goût" - it's up to your own personal aesthetic preferences. Apparently to some people pointing that out is offensive.

Reply Score: 1

New stuff
by lagitus on Fri 10th Mar 2006 06:47 UTC
lagitus
Member since:
2005-07-18

All these new technologies are exiting and all, but will they be released in as buggy a state as they are in now? Few distros actually take time to test everything. It's so much easier to just grab the latest versions of every project and start advertising the most advanced Linux desktop. I've found Ubuntu (especially KUbuntu) to be especially bad in this regard.

Reply Score: 0

The Year of Desktop Linux
by matthew_i on Fri 10th Mar 2006 10:20 UTC
matthew_i
Member since:
2005-07-14

So, I know we all were like 2004 was going to be the year of Desktop Linux, then we were like 2005 was going to be the year of Desktop Linux, but really guys, I think this is going to be the year of Desktop Linux! Ok, really though, that is an interesting panel applet they developed there for the menu, I really like where this is going. I am not going to ever use it, but hey...

Finally X is getting some developer love, and GNOME is shaping up pretty nicely. Maybe I should get some sleep...

Reply Score: 0

WOW
by tripper on Fri 10th Mar 2006 18:38 UTC
tripper
Member since:
2006-03-10

I happened to be in DC and go visit the FOSE show. I also got a chance to see the Novell guy, who was the community director, and he gave a quick demo of the desktop. These screenshots simply do not do the whole thing justice!! It is AWESOME! He took a picture with his digital cam, plugged it in and the desktop said new camera and it showed and downloaded the pics. worked the same with his ipod nano!! The graphics are the best I have ever seen and the rotating screen will blow you away. the graphics alone blow vista out of the water! i will be paying the required $49.95 for this when it comes out at the end of may. He did say that 10.1 will have most of the programs that this OS will have, so maybe 10.1 will do the same thing.

Reply Score: 1

RE: WOW
by thaeger on Sun 12th Mar 2006 22:12 UTC in reply to "WOW"
thaeger Member since:
2006-03-12

Tripper:
Glad you liked the demo. I was the guy there at the tux.org booth showing off beta 6 of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10.
Some answers to questions in this thread:
- Yes, Novell Linux Desktop has been rebranded. It now bears the SUSE name.
- Yes, you will be able to use many of the same components I was showing at FOSE on SUSE Linux 10.1. Xgl certainly works on SUSE Linux 10.0 or 10.1
- Yes, Novell targets the Enterprise desktop primarily at business users.
- Yes, there are proprietary components in SLED10. They bear names like Adobe and Real, and we include them because our research has shown us that businesses want these components. But if you look at the pieces that Novell funds and develops--things like Banshee, F-spot, and the new Gnome menus--they're open source.
- Yes, other distributions will have Xgl, Banshee, etc. Many of their community forums already have extensive coverage on how to use these.

Thanks,
Ted Haeger, community guy at Novell
Blog: http://reverendted.blogspot.com
Podcast: http://www.novell.com/openaudio

Reply Score: 1

Laptop
by tripper on Fri 10th Mar 2006 18:41 UTC
tripper
Member since:
2006-03-10

I did forget to mention that he had it installed on a Dell laptop and it did not show the usual sluggishness that comes with MS Windows. It was very quick indeed!

Reply Score: 1

OpenSuse is great but...
by werfu on Sat 11th Mar 2006 15:38 UTC
werfu
Member since:
2005-09-15

If I remember well, you can't hard link a a program under GPL license with modules that are incompatible license, but BSD do.

Personnaly I don't think this will be the "Linux Desktop Year" as stated in other comments. Not this year. But expect the next year to be stronger as great improvement and step are going to be made (KDE4 & Gnome 3). Also, Linux on the desktop wont happen until a major vendor who understand the Linux world grab a giant part of the market and beging to sell or simply give away it's Linux distribution to major company.

I expect Mark Shuffle of Ubuntu to be trying to do this. The formula of having a clean and working distro fitting on a single CD is a winner combination. I also like Ubuntu for not using custom configuration panel like SuSe or RHEL do.

Edited 2006-03-11 15:39

Reply Score: 1