Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 25th Mar 2006 18:48 UTC, submitted by William Beebe
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless "The 770 is not for everybody. If you want something for practical day-to-day use, you're better off buying a PDA or smart phone. And a word to Nokia: make nice with Microsoft. I would love to be able to run Windows Mobile 2005 on this device in place of your version of Linux. It's both fast and complete. Trying to impress the Linux geek crowd is not a good business plan, nor is trying to shoe-horn Linux onto this type of platform. Using Windows Mobile 2005 would make this a far better, and far more successful, mobile device." And part II, one month later: "Right now, I feel like I've pretty much wasted $380 on the 770. I continue to work with it the hope I'll find some hidden feature or application I've missed so far."
Order by: Score:
Quit nagging
by trendzetter on Sat 25th Mar 2006 19:29 UTC
trendzetter
Member since:
2006-03-25

Why are you buying the device anyway ? It's anounced that is would be running a gnome based linux. No surprises there.
If you wanted a windows mobile device why don't you buy one ?
This is FUD.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Quit nagging
by dsmogor on Sat 25th Mar 2006 20:16 UTC in reply to "Quit nagging"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

This is not FUD. He didn't cirticize the mere fact of including linux but the overall sucky device experience that he suspects can be connected with the software quality.
He also pointed his fingers to concrete problems.

Now you can be sure he (and most readers of his blog will never ever buy linux based mobile device.

Edited 2006-03-25 20:34

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Quit nagging
by trendzetter on Sun 26th Mar 2006 09:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Quit nagging"
trendzetter Member since:
2006-03-25

I tell you this IS MS propaganda. The guy is not who he tells he is. He is laying to much emphasis on him demanding it to run "Windows Mobile 2005" and that nokia's businessplan is bad because they shoehorn ( force ) linux to run on it. A 20 year old student doesn't care about the businessplan of Nokia unless he is being paid by someone to do so.
Some of his previous articles where also rants about unix being less secure that windows.

This is what I call a review:
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nokia770.ars

Reply Score: 5

OT RE[2]: Quit nagging
by dsmogor on Sun 26th Mar 2006 13:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Quit nagging"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Ha ha,
look at the score my post and the parent got, despite them beeing completely contradicting each other.

This tells a lot about this site audience.
Thom, how do you find this ballance?

Reply Score: 1

RE: OT RE[3]: Quit nagging
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 26th Mar 2006 13:22 UTC in reply to "OT RE[2]: Quit nagging"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

This tells a lot about this site audience.

Tells me we have a balanced audience.

Thom, how do you find this ballance?

Uninteresting. The comments are your (the reader's) turf. I'm just the newsbot ;) .

Reply Score: 5

RE: Quit nagging
by ryan on Sat 25th Mar 2006 23:09 UTC in reply to "Quit nagging"
ryan Member since:
2005-07-06

Just because you don't like the conclusion doesn't mean it's FUD. Do you even know what FUD means? He's someone who bought a product and is telling other people what his experiences are with that product. If he was telling people to not buy it because he just guessed it didn't have enough RAM, or that he figured there wouldn't be enough good software available that would be FUD.

This was a valuable review to me, someone who is interested in the 770 device. If it can only browse a few pages until it crashes, takes a minute to start up, and can't render flash properly -- that's a bunch of serious negatives in my book, enough to justify not shelling out $380 for this product.

I'll wait until Nokia comes out with a successor that deals with some of these problems, obviously this is a first generation product and it has some problems still. But calling this review FUD is not accurate nor helpful.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Quit nagging
by mallard on Sun 26th Mar 2006 01:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Quit nagging"
mallard Member since:
2006-01-06

If it can only browse a few pages until it crashes, takes a minute to start up, and can't render flash properly -- that's a bunch of serious negatives in my book, enough to justify not shelling out $380 for this product.

That is FUD, but for completeness I will go though your points:

only browse a few pages until it crashes
No, you can only have a few browser windows open before it runs out of memory and asks you to close one.

takes a minute to start up
On first boot/reset. The device is normally left in sleep mode, so 'start up' is instantaneous.

can't render flash properly
No, its a memory issue. Flash renders fine, just the device lacks the memory for some flash-intensive sites.

Memory issues can be mitigated (to a large degree) by creating a swapfile on a memory card (instructions on the Maemo wiki).
'Missing' applications such as word proccessing, spreadsheet and PIM are also available.

A major firmware upgrade is due very soon.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Quit nagging
by kaiwai on Sun 26th Mar 2006 02:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Quit nagging"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Just because you don't like the conclusion doesn't mean it's FUD. Do you even know what FUD means? He's someone who bought a product and is telling other people what his experiences are with that product. If he was telling people to not buy it because he just guessed it didn't have enough RAM, or that he figured there wouldn't be enough good software available that would be FUD.

Even that wouldn't be FUD; FUD by definition is Fear, Uncertaintity and Doubt - normally created by companies to bring into question false issues relating to a competitors product.

In this case, an example if FUD would be, 'this product uses Linux, and given that it is opensource, someone might hack it!' - now *THAT* is classic FUD.

As for the review, its a good review, warts and all; the Nokia 770 is a shipping product, and the reviewer reviewed it as such - with expectations that it would be up to the same standard as a PalmOS or Windows Mobile 2005 device; I see nothing wrong in that regard.

For me, however, $380 is a bit to shell out for a product, given that one can purchase a laptop for a few hundred bucks more, and without the limitations of a 770; the other question I need to ask is this; what is the purpose of this device? it seems to be a device looking for a market.

Reply Score: 3

Oh my god, the insight...
by ziggamon on Sat 25th Mar 2006 19:34 UTC
ziggamon
Member since:
2005-07-06

"Maemo is a development wiki"...

Yeah, you can stop reading then and there...

To summarize: the main points are:
* It runs linux, so it sucks! Windows would be much better at everything
* It has little ram, so sometimes things work slowly.
* Not too much installed software, although much is available at Maemo (the development wiki, remember?)
* Sometimes WiFi disconnects.
* Some default settings are not the way the author would have expected.

Oh, and why is OSnews posting _this_ particular persons rant? There are like hundreds of blog posts like this (both liking and disliking the N770). Where is the news value?

Edited 2006-03-25 19:35

Reply Score: 5

RE: Oh my god, the insight...
by ra1n on Sat 25th Mar 2006 19:49 UTC in reply to "Oh my god, the insight..."
ra1n Member since:
2006-02-11

completely agree, this is FUD, or a rant of a guy who didn't know what has bought, and why

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Oh my god, the insight...
by dsmogor on Sat 25th Mar 2006 20:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Oh my god, the insight..."
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

He just wanted to buy 800x400 mobile tablet. He wasn't biased towards any OS, though he was attached to some qualities.

By your logic Gnome devices cannot be criticized because their users for some reason should have been be prepared to whatever low quality standard it offers.

I used to have high hopes for linux mobile devices, but so far all of them seem to carry the same types of flaws again and again.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Oh my god, the insight...
by ra1n on Sun 26th Mar 2006 08:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oh my god, the insight..."
ra1n Member since:
2006-02-11

Not biased?
Using Windows Mobile 2005 would make this a far better, and far more successful, mobile device.

Gnome(???) devices can be criticized, no matter what quality standard they have, the only problem of this device is that has low memory, other problems seem only in his head to me...

Reply Score: 1

hmmm...
by jaypee on Sat 25th Mar 2006 20:01 UTC
jaypee
Member since:
2005-07-28

I've had my 770 for about two months and I love it. I take it to work with me and, while I am out at lunch, I can duck into a restaraunt with free wifi and shoot off a quick email or surf. Also, I will start selling real estate this summer and this will be a great device for checking MLS listings while I am out and about.

I am not sure why the author didn't just buy a Windows mobile device if he found that to be more to his tastes. Like others have already said, he seems to have not known much about the product before shelling out $380 to purchase it.

Edited 2006-03-25 20:02

Reply Score: 5

RE: hmmm...
by rattaro on Sat 25th Mar 2006 21:01 UTC in reply to "hmmm... "
rattaro Member since:
2005-08-22

I love mine too. I'm not sure what he means by slow. I was pleasantly surprised how fast it was. Several people reported the slowness, and it's not a 10 ghz pentium, but it's really responsive. I like how he says it's not for everyone. That falls into the "no duh" category. Like anything in the universe is for everyone.

Also, Gmail works fine. This is clearly FUD. Just by simply running windows mobile 2005, it magically would be better. Sure, that sounds like a well reasoned thought.

Reply Score: 3

hmm...
by hobgoblin on Sat 25th Mar 2006 20:37 UTC
hobgoblin
Member since:
2005-07-06

about ordering the thing. from what i recall even nokia was surprised about the interest in the device. it was supposed to be a low production run to test the market for such a device, therefor there is now a new one coming out, and this one will probably get a proper production run and be distributed to all the usual outlets.

i wonder tho, are there any windows mobile devices out there that have a 800x400 portrait mode screen?

im going to check if the maemo page have a replacement browser. opera may be good by its nice to have alternatives ;)

Reply Score: 1

stumbler
by netpython on Sat 25th Mar 2006 20:51 UTC
netpython
Member since:
2005-07-06

As long as it runs ministumbler.But i rather prefer my iPAQ and orinoco gold classic anyway.

Reply Score: 1

Windows mobile
by stare on Sat 25th Mar 2006 21:40 UTC
stare
Member since:
2005-07-06

While he has some valid points about the 770, suggesting Nokia (who have they own successful symbian-based solutions) to use windows mobile is, well, funny.

Browser: Mozilla/4.1 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Symbian OS; Series 60;452) Opera 6.20 [en]

Reply Score: 2

The 770 isn't for everybody...
by CrLf on Sat 25th Mar 2006 22:00 UTC
CrLf
Member since:
2006-01-03

Wow... that's news... The 770's sole purpose is starting a new platform and, as so, is targeted at developers, not consumers.

If this guy went out of its way to buy one, then he should stop complaining and start producing some code to make it better.

He doesn't code? Well, that's his problem, not Nokia's.

Reply Score: 1

RE: The 770 isn't for everybody...
by collinm on Sat 25th Mar 2006 22:13 UTC in reply to "The 770 isn't for everybody..."
collinm Member since:
2005-07-15

if found it no so bad... but i don't like the gui..... if nokia sale same thing with a gui more like kde... i will take one

Reply Score: 1

I got one of these two weeks ago and ...
by kadymae on Sun 26th Mar 2006 00:54 UTC
kadymae
Member since:
2005-08-02

... it's a crack tablet is what it is.

In the morning, my DH is on the downstairs iBook and if I want to do a quick email check or LJ/OS News surf, then I've got to go up stairs and get on the Pismo (old, weak battery) or my PowerMac.

The Nokia has been the perfect product for me.

I didn't want a PDA because (a) itty bitty screen (b) Windows (c) expensive for what you get (d) pre installed with features I don't give a damn about (e) ho-hum broswer.

I've already downloaded Abi Word (And, as an aside, friggin Best. Linux. Install. EVER. Download, tap the file with the stylus, wham, bam, thank you ma'am, I had AbiWord on "Crumpet".)

When I get my bluetooth keyboard next paycheck (Vacation + Nokia Tablet + $350 Vet bill [] make for a large CC balence) I'll be set.

And the coolest thing is, next time I go on the road, I don't have to lug a laptop along to surf the web, check my email and write notes. Instead I'll have two small items, both of which fit fine in my purse.

Yeah, the 64mb of ram left to the user to install programs on is a bit small (c'mon Nokia, at least 128mb), but I can simply store all of my data on one of those itty bitty flash memory cards and I'm golden.

(I hear you can also speed up the multitasking features if you set up swap file functionality on your memory card.)

This little device has everything I want and nothing I don't. I don't expect a fully functional palmtop computer, I don't want/need a PDA. I just want to write and surf. (And load a few pictures I've taken on it so I can show some friends how I've framed and displayed their art.)

---

The cheapest place I've found to buy Nokia 770 and a stowaway bluetooth keyboard is Amazon.com. (Free shipping.)

Reply Score: 1

dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

How does ABI work on 770?
Could you post some performance measurements, experiences editing longish documents. How stable is it?

Reply Score: 1

kadymae Member since:
2005-08-02

Could you post some performance measurements, experiences editing longish documents. How stable is it?

Haven't had a much of a chance yet -- no keyboard at the moment.

Reply Score: 1

Verbatim
Member since:
2006-01-14

In his FUD posting, he says this:

"I was in the market for a something along the lines of the 770, and I wanted something better in the screen department than the current crop of PDAs. The 770 has a gorgeous screen, one of the best I've ever seen in a device this small. The overall case is also light and strong with quality construction throughout. It's beautiful."

So he either bought the 770 because of its geek factor, or because he thought it looked pretty.

Edited 2006-03-26 01:19

Reply Score: 0

lecture notes
by ssam on Sun 26th Mar 2006 01:54 UTC
ssam
Member since:
2006-03-12

is anyone using a 770 for taking lecture notes, or a similar task?

how good is the handwriting recognition?

also as i am doing physics and need to do equations and sketches, is the a good drawing program that i could use.

Reply Score: 1

RE: lecture notes
by ma_d on Sun 26th Mar 2006 04:58 UTC in reply to "lecture notes"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

I don't think anything is good for this yet.

The recognition I've seen (WinCE, WinMo 5) is pretty sad. It works, if you write the proper way. You know, top down, always. But it likes to make my b's 6's and that sort of thing.

Also, the recognition is slow because of the interface. You write a couple words, on a PDA, and you've filled the screen. You then must stop for a solid 1-2 seconds so that it can know it can start recognizing now.

Your best bet for notes is probably a tablet. You can draw with the pen and type most of the time. Unfortunately, they're 4 times more money ;) .


Also, I've found paper and a pencil quite effective!

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: lecture notes
by axel on Sun 26th Mar 2006 05:13 UTC in reply to "RE: lecture notes"
axel Member since:
2006-02-04

Well you could always install dasher
http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/
once you get used to it (and it gets used to you, it can be fairly quick, i don't know if it's fast enough for notes though (course i don't know if the writing recognition is fast enough either)

Reply Score: 2

other linux mobile devices
by maxmg on Sun 26th Mar 2006 02:53 UTC
maxmg
Member since:
2006-02-26

Perhaps the author wouldn't have had such a mixed reception to his article if he'd compared it to something like a Zaurus, or other linux embedded mobile device before asserting that the problem is the OS and not the chip, whereas the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle since it is a development platform, allegedly. Though why buy something for the geek factor and then complain it's too geeky (ie asserting that mameo isn't good enough because it is aimed at developers)?

Reply Score: 2

RE: other linux mobile devices
by dsmogor on Sun 26th Mar 2006 13:44 UTC in reply to "other linux mobile devices"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

But why the only selling point of linux have to be geek factor?
This way it will never emerge as a viable platform, which is not only innovative but open.

Reply Score: 1

A first gen product
by ma_d on Sun 26th Mar 2006 04:55 UTC
ma_d
Member since:
2005-06-29

He's buying what is essentially a first generation product and he's expecting a lot from it.

I got an Axim for Christmas this year, and let me tell you, Windows Mobile is still pathetic. But it's definitely not as bad as what he describes.

He should thank his lucky stars they put Opera on it and not one of the mozilla mobile ports. Oh my, they're the definition of slow.

The 770 is clearly not for everybody. Neither was the first iPod. Neither were the first Palms. Neither were the first iPaq's.

I'd trade straight disk access to my Axim over the synch program anyday... That thing is a nightmare! Which is why I got a nice big SD card ;) .

Reply Score: 2

A word about the Nokia 770
by LarsB on Sun 26th Mar 2006 05:52 UTC
LarsB
Member since:
2006-01-28

From the article:
"And a word to Nokia: make nice with Microsoft".

Sounds nice, however, Microsoft tried to make nice with Noia for years. Ballmer wisited Finland several times asking Nokia to produce Microsoft "Smartphones" for Microsoft.
Nokia was not that stupid then, and as I hope not in the future either.

There are those cellphone companies that are very keen (and suited) to produce and ride on the Microsoft brand.

When Microsoft turns to companies like Nokia asking them to produce something for them (and even pay for the great pleasure) it is like if a company with an engine or a nut turned to a car company asking them to produce a car for their engine or nut.

Nuts,nuts and nuts, in other words.

Then there is this funny thing with Linux beeing ported to any "nice" hardware available (Apple, Xbox etc.).

Now, with a good Nokia hardware lets hope and wait for Microsoft to port their stuff to the 770. I am sure Nokia will not bother to prevent that with DRM, lawsuits and the like.

Linux is nothing new for Nokia, they have used it in their products and in their company.
Motorola and Ericsson too.
Motorola probably more than others.

With the 770 I think Nokia wants to reach the open source community. (like Sharp with the Zaurus).
Nokia, has all that is needed when it comes to producing devices with a very good "quality/price".

I hope they can reach the developers too.

Much more about it at:

http//:www.linuxdevices.com

Reply Score: 1

OS Propoganda
by Nycran on Sun 26th Mar 2006 07:33 UTC
Nycran
Member since:
2006-02-06

The reviewer caught my attention when he said "trying to impress the Linux geek crowd is not a good business plan, nor is trying to shoe-horn Linux onto this type of platform".

This is a line that's guaranteed to upset people. First it implies that Linux users are geeks, second it confidently asserts that Linux cannot be an effective mobile OS. The Linux userbase demographic is changing, with entire departments and governments switching over from Windows - these people are not geeks.

Moreover, I very much doubt that the linux OS will be fundamentally flawed such that it cannot be an effective mobile OS. It's just going to take the right modifications and customisations. Let's see what Palm Source can do with the upcoming PalmLinux OS.

Reply Score: 1

RE: OS Propoganda
by dsmogor on Sun 26th Mar 2006 13:51 UTC in reply to "OS Propoganda"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

The OS (kernel) itself have been successfully put on much smaller devices. It's the upper layers and the developers plaform that are not up to the task.
I'm afraid it will emerge (Acces efforts are good sign) when it's too late, MS owns >90% of mobile platforms and nobody gives a s*t about other alts.

Reply Score: 1

Hm
by miro on Sun 26th Mar 2006 08:40 UTC
miro
Member since:
2005-07-13

1) neither any palmOS devices can connect through usb, you need an application on the Windows -Dektop- machine to allow this.
2) Still better then "Drive Mode" on palmOS . You can't use the device in this case. I don't see this as a big problem, you will only use it to download stuff to your device and disconnect it afterwards...
3) Well you probably haven't seen the MDA PPC2005 device, that's SLOW (Also 200MHz). For speed there is PalmOS, yes it is very simple and might not all the features of PPC2005, but I compared a Treo650 <> Treo700w and I know which one I like;)
4) Again what the hell are you talking about? Too many apps open? The most hated "feature" of PocketPC's is that *close* button only minimizes the app. There are dozens of applications doing nothing other than fixing this. So trust me multitasking is NOT a good idea on a PDA/Phone. Background processing, like email, music etc, is fine, but otherwise...
5)-6) Opera is at least a browser, it is hardly comparable to IE or Blazer on PPC PalmOS, those are toy programs...(Blazer won't let you download a few megabyte file...)
*) Buttons in nokia at least work. Maybe not as good as on Treo+, Palm T5+, where most aps have full support for buttons (one handed navigation). MS is behind in this case, far, far behind.

You whole a article is worth shit, to sum it up: 770 is slower than my Desktop PC and has no apps that I want to use.

Reply Score: 1

FUD
by kenjiru on Sun 26th Mar 2006 09:40 UTC
kenjiru
Member since:
2006-03-26

This is clearly FUD. This is a very low qulity article and I don't understand why it was posted on OSNews...

Reply Score: 2

RE: FUD
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 26th Mar 2006 10:20 UTC in reply to "FUD"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

"This is a very low qulity article and I don't understand why it was posted on OSNews..."

I think for many in this thread ANY story on the 770 that does not glorify His Linuxness into the Heavens of Software would be a low quality article.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: FUD
by trendzetter on Sun 26th Mar 2006 10:54 UTC in reply to "RE: FUD"
trendzetter Member since:
2006-03-25

I don't think anyone here demands to glorify linux as some holy object.
I think it says a lot about the osnews staff taking part in this discussion and joining FUD spreaders actually by spreading some more FUD.

Edited 2006-03-26 10:55

Reply Score: 2

sad but
by dukeinlondon on Sun 26th Mar 2006 10:36 UTC
dukeinlondon
Member since:
2005-07-06

I decided not to go for that device just by reading the specifications and the software offering.

If it's still a live product in 2 years time, then it means that it was not just a zaurus-like Nokia experiment and then I probably will look at it closer.

Reply Score: 1

OMAP DSP in Nokia sdk.
by dsmogor on Sun 26th Mar 2006 13:37 UTC
dsmogor
Member since:
2005-09-01

Hey people.
From what I've read OMAP installed in 770 also contains quite beefy 32xxx TI Media Processor. My company uses the series in ist IPTV STB's and its capable of decoding H264 and VC1 SD video.
With proprer mesa driver, 770 could also have some decent 3d.

Do you know whether Nokia provides some ways to access it and program it? TI has its compiler but its cost is mindblowing.

Reply Score: 1

RE: OMAP DSP in Nokia sdk.
by _LH_ on Sun 26th Mar 2006 14:49 UTC in reply to "OMAP DSP in Nokia sdk."
_LH_ Member since:
2005-07-20

>Do you know whether Nokia provides some ways to access it and program it? TI has its compiler but its cost is mindblowing.

http://maemo.org/platform/docs/maemo_exec_whitepaper.html states the following:

Multimedia subsystem is based around the Gstreamer framework, Helix and the EsoundD, which have been been modified to support DSP based multimedia solution to leverage OMAP architecture on the Nokia 770 product. Linux DSP gateway project (http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net), which is now merged to mainstream linux-omap port project is used to achieve this.

But yet I'm under the impression that DSP Gateway requires TI's Code Composer Studio for compiling.

Reply Score: 1

RE: OMAP DSP in Nokia sdk.
by dsmogor on Sun 26th Mar 2006 19:00 UTC in reply to "OMAP DSP in Nokia sdk."
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

I made a gaffe. The 32c5xx in OMAP seems not to be as powerfull as 32c6xx I had im mind. Still, freely using the additional processing caps. could be beneficial.

Reply Score: 1

Slow booting.
by dsmogor on Sun 26th Mar 2006 14:10 UTC
dsmogor
Member since:
2005-09-01

And one more thing.
Slow bootup is not inherent to linux. We have some PPC and Mips (both in 250Mhz range) based devices that boot to simple graphical application in <7 and <15 sec respectively.
It's just matter of proper tweaks.

Reply Score: 1

My Nokia 770 rocks!
by jerryn on Sun 26th Mar 2006 16:18 UTC
jerryn
Member since:
2006-03-03

I own a Nokia 770, it's great! The Linux OS is very fast! The webbrowser is great for what I am using it for! I'm creating my own mameo applications. What can I say, I think Mameo is going to be very cool embedded platform. The screen is awesome, very sharp!

The POSTER posted FUD, probably a Microsofie crownie that
is upset that Windows ce is loosing market share.

Reply Score: 1

770 Wi-Fi settings
by qwright on Sun 26th Mar 2006 19:25 UTC
qwright
Member since:
2006-03-26

A default wi-fi setting can be saved by using Control Panel/Connectivity and selecting the "Use without asking" box. Then the 770 will attempt to connect or re-connect in the background.

My 770 doesn't go to sleep when it is plugged into the charger either when it's powered up or disconnected.

I wonder whether an upgrade to v 3.2005.51-13 is required?

Reply Score: 1