I started out as a Mac user in about 1985 in a world which will be totally unfamiliar to almost all readers of OSNews. You wrote out your stuff by longhand, and a secretary typed it on a word processor. If you were lucky and able to manage it, you could dictate it. But you did not dictate into a dictating machine, because these were big heavy and expensive. You dictated it directly to someone who could 'take shorthand'. If you had a PC, it ran DOS. You looked for your files, and moved them around, started applications, one at a time, from the command line, and the command line was not pretty, it was green on black.
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Member since:
2006-01-20
I agree on the fact that Apple products may be overpriced and that the attitude of the company may be quite annoying (modeled on its chief, I'd say); and I subscribe 100% on the fact that OSX is just simply dumbed down because "choice scares".
But I honestly think that the hardware they sell is of a very high quality and I don't regret buying my iBook. And running linux on it 
Member since:2005-09-13
Member since:2005-06-29
Member since:2005-07-06
Yup, when I bought my iBook a bit over a year ago I wasn't looking for an Apple. All I wanted a small (12" screen) laptop with good battery life, wifi and reasonable performance. The iBook was much cheaper than any x86 laptop fulfilling those criteria. I've stuck with OSX mainly because it hasn't yet annoyed me enough to make me want to change.
Member since:2006-05-04
Member since:2006-02-11
Apart from the running linux thing (even being a linux user myself linux as primary OS on a PPC isn't the best choice for me)
You think that the iBook it's expensive? I often hear that mac are overpriced, but find me a noetbook like the ibook 12" at the same price!!
Some machine are expensive (like the powerbook 12") but other not, and are simply better that sameprice machines
Member since:2005-11-09
I know... My iBook's only problem in the 2+ years I have owned it is a misaligned combo drive due to me dropping it on the floor from my couch. My battery has lost its life, but that happens when you use a machine every single day for hours at a time.
My P laptop was in the shop 5 times for a week at a time. I think it speaks for itself.
Member since:2006-05-11
Member since:2006-05-12
I use Fedora Core PPC and Gentoo PPC on 2 ibook G3.
It works OK but compilation for Gentoo PPC and yum/yumex on FedoraCore PPC take a lot of time.
Apple did sell expensive hardware at high prices with a slow slow CPu ...
I used Linux on these systems because MacOs X was so damned slow ...
I miss on these systems things such as Flash (swf) support in browsers - Blame it on Macromedia - and
Vmware ...
Clearly I will buy a DualCore (Asus or Acer) to be more productive (and will consider Asus or Acer)
with PCLOS + Debian ...
SL/
Member since:
2006-05-10
Member since:2005-07-08
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Member since:2005-11-10
Member since:2006-01-03
I agree.
And no I am not a Mac groupie! I have not owned or used a Mac since the early nineties.
After crowning on and on for 5 pages, the author on the last page paragraphs says he has a moral, yes moral, obligation not to buy any another Mac due to the culture of some Mac users. (And his belief that Apple fosters this culture.)
Bottom line, you buy any computer and OS to accomplish tasks. If it does what you want and at a price you can accept, you buy it and use it. Nothing else really matters.
I get sick of people whining about the price difference. People don't complain with the same fevour when car made by GM is more expensive than a very similar car made by Chysler. Or that Sony DVD player is more expensive than a DVD player made by Apex, even though they share common components. Or how about tires where noname tires which are made by the brand name companies just relabeled are sold at difference price. Seems the same elist culture you question about Mac users exists in computer users in general.
I think in the progress of moving to a disposable electronic industry, the quest for cheap has actually hurt us in many ways. (A topic itself)
These opinion articles are no different than the cutlture of Mac users you question. Instead of talking about how the Mac worked for you, you and others are too worried about the guy down the street and what he has. OMG, he paid 20% less and his CPU runs 20% faster. Whoa is me. My spreadsheet calulates a microsecond slower!!
I would hate to live my life aways looking beside me to compare things to others. Does it do what you want/need and can you accept the price? If yes buy it and be happy, if not, don't buy it. To try to influence people on any other factors is just stupid.
Member since:2006-01-23
It's a rant or, more nicely, an opinion, but it's not an editorial really.
If a person buys and uses something or does the opposite because of someone else's idealism, there is something missing.
I'm not a fanboy of any certain product but I use a lot of different items and have brand loyalty. Still, the world changes--change with it.
Member since:
2005-07-06
...but for reasons totally different from yours. I'm not a longtime Apple or Mac user (though I've had run-ins with the platform(s) since the mid-1980s and have owned a Mac in the past). I've been predominantly a *nix user for about six years, before which I largely used PC- and MS-DOS (never really bothered to switch to Win9x).
I've come to the conclusion that dealing with alternative operating systems just isn't worth the hassle. The choice of an OS shouldn't be comparable to religion. Nor should distaste for a particular business practice lead one to using an inferior solution out of spite.
So I recently switched to Windows 2000 (XP doesn't run on my ages-old hardware). I'll be buying a new machine to run Vista next year.
Member since:2005-11-09
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2006-01-24
Member since:2005-06-29
Member since:2005-07-06
Where does the author say you shouldn't buy one? He only explains why HE will not buy one. He doesn't try to impose his not-Mac-buying on you.
The author never quite says it, no. And I didn't claim such things were said. However, he clearly almost says it at the end when he starts proclaiming that his desire to not buy any Apple products is "almost a moral issue." As soon as it becomes a moral issue for someone it gets twisted into the mighty concepts of "right" and "wrong" and soon after that we have people trying to tell other people what to do and think for "their own good."
Member since:2005-07-06
Unless, of course, he's reasonable enough to know that different people will have different views of right and wrong. Simply because he deems apple wrong does not immediately mean he's going to attack you for supporting them....
Maybe the chances are higher, but this does not mean it's definitely going to happen. Simply because we live in such a polarized society does not mean we must continue the mac-win-linux/democrat-republican left-right polarizations that do nobody any good...
Member since:2006-05-10
If you do not feel that this guy is trying to tell all others not to buy a mac ,
explain to me why he is publishing it ......
If i do not want to buy the Honda .......I will not try to tell everyone else not to buy a Honda
I am astonish .....is it a correct english word ????
Aramis
Member since:2006-01-01
Member since:2005-07-06
If you do not feel that this guy is trying to tell all others not to buy a mac ,
explain to me why he is publishing it ......
If i do not want to buy the Honda .......I will not try to tell everyone else not to buy a Honda
In the free and normal world people publish articles about why they won't buy Hondas, Toyotas, or especially Renaults, Citroens and Alfa Romeos all the time. Do not presume to ask "explain to me why he is publishing it" in that Animal Farm manner, just because it's Apple he's talking about.
Again, another comment that proves the author's point in so many ways sadly.
Member since:2006-01-11
It's a five page editorial on why he won't buy another Mac, or rather five pages of self-righteous digital dogma implicating to its readers that they should follow along.
The bottom line is: Apple has no right to tell people to shut up unless it infringes on Apple's ability to conduct profitable business. So far, that's all they've done, and wouldn't expect them to go any further.
Member since:2005-11-10
Member since:2006-01-11
Revealing trade secrets and redistributing copyrighted material is not protected by the First Amendment. FOIA, 5 U.S.C. Section 552(b) states that "Private commercial or trade secret information" is exempt from government disclosure. If the U.S. government can't legally disclose it, what makes you think somebody with a web page can?
Member since:2006-01-11
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2005-11-10
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2005-07-06
I have a hard time believing a 5 page rant about apple fanboys got onto osnews, but since it was, I am inclined to voice my opinion of the piece.
I found that there were significant portions of the document that sounded earily like orgainzed troll comments. Little bits thrown in under-breath like his friends cube that was underpowered and "was overheated" sound more like someone venting than making a point. It seemed like a lot of these points were also inaccurate.
He also seems rather hung up on his imac being non-upgradable, but has no problem buying multiple laptops. Odd. And of course, the easy question is why didn't this occur to him before he wrote the check.
But alas, his real issue is with the actions of the fanatacs. And this is the major flaw of this article appearing on osnews. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH OS's. This is an elaborate blog post that no one would read if it made it on a personal blog. It has zero technical merit and hangs to a person's views of a company's marketing tactics and its internet fanboys.
The author writes "While it may seem to many rather unreasonable to base one's choice of computers on the antics of other buyers..".
To retort: Yes it is unreasonable. Moronic actually. As was the fact that you dedicated 5 pages to trying to justify a moronic point. Grade F.
Member since:2005-09-13
Member since:2006-03-29
"Little bits thrown in under-breath like his friends cube that was underpowered and "was overheated" "
Do you KNOW the history of the Cube?
It had cache problems from the outset and it DID overheat. I had 12 of them in my office and we had to return them all. So, perhaps he DOES know what he's talking about?
Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:2005-07-06
Little bits thrown in under-breath like his friends cube that was underpowered and "was overheated" sound more like someone venting than making a point.
This is true. I know of many universities and colleges who have had umpteen problems with these things - and Apple's support is less than perfect. These places have a 15% to 20% failure rate of Macs, and Apple's support is worse than Dell's. Explain that one.
To retort: Yes it is unreasonable. Moronic actually. As was the fact that you dedicated 5 pages to trying to justify a moronic point. Grade F.
Grade G to you. You've seen at least some elemants of truth in what's been written and written a moronic comment in reply, rather than respond to the main points.
In fact, you've unwittingly proved his point. Something concrete that is actually happening in the real world has been pointed out, and a Mac fan comes in, defends Apple to the hilt, denies that your problem is a real problem and labels you as a troll. Grade A on that one ;-).
Member since:2005-08-12
I have a hard time believing a 5 page rant about apple fanboys got onto osnews
You must not frequent OSNews.
Waste of my time. I was with him for well over half the article. But it fell completely flat as the author's arguments degraded to pot-shots at now irrelevant downfalls to Mac ownership and "morals."
Member since:2006-05-11
Yeah - I was following the author just about through the first half of the piece and it is good in that part. Then it turns into a rant that is no better than anything you can see on Mac, Linux or other battlefield forums. Good start, but the finish is very weak and unconvincing - proud owner of Dell, Acer, PowerBook G4 and MacBook Pro.
Good thing is that we all have choices and can pick a platform that suits us best.
Member since:
2005-11-10
...you don't want another Mac because you want "OS choice", "hardware choice", and you don't like some of the smug attitudes of posters in Mac forums.
To that I say:
1. Have you ever actually been in a Windows forum or a Linux forum? I see the same religious arrogance no matter what the OS. Boys will be boys.
2. Perhaps you haven't heard that Apple no longer uses proprietary display connectors, proprietary keyboard or mouse connectors, proprietary ram, proprietary motherboards, or proprietary anything. You really need to modernize your attitude about Apple's hardware components and the interfaces its systems use. There's nothing your beige tower can run that your Intel Mac can't. Macs are now every bit as "IBM-compatible" as a bargain basement eMachine.
3. You have more "OS choice" on a Mac than you do on any Shuttle you built yourself, since it can run Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X.
Additionally, in response to your whining about price: Cost comparisons have been done to death that show Mac systems are on fiscal par with Dell, Gateway, Sony systems, etc., when you match them feature for feature. Yes, you can get a bargain basement machine at Wal-mart for $300, but it doesn't come with all of the features of the $599 Mac mini. And all the Mac systems have one feature you can't get on any other PC: The ability to run OS X as well as Apple's amazing pro and consumer software packages.
Also, you may want to check out iLife (iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, iWeb, iPhoto, etc.) which ships free with every Mac. It's really a lot of fun, very useful, comes free with a Mac. There's nothing comparable on Linux or Windows. You didn't mention it, so it sounds to me like you may still be stuck in the "computers are for word processing and spreadsheets" mentality that Apple is trying to get people away from.
So basically, use whatever you want. I don't really care what your next computer is going to be any more than you care what mine is going to be. But if you're going to make arguments to back up your decision, please make sure those arguments are not completely outdated. I really couldn't find any substance in your article.
Member since:2006-01-10
What a lot of people seem to not realize (and from your post you are such a person), not everyone _wants_ or _needs_ iLife and the other software included. And *gasp* not everyone wants to run OS X. So if you take those two "strong points" out of the price equation, you see that a similar spec custom built or off the shelf machine is better value.
There is just no point in paying for something that you neither need or want, and it is kind of getting old arguing that iLife is such great value when most people have trouble using Word.
As to your "nothing comparable" on Linux or Windows, this again goes back to personal preference. If I want a simple image viewer on Linux, I can grab one of the many available. Such a "non-standard" program on Mac would likely cost money or have some sort of shareware license. So just because you consider iPhoto the end all of apps doesn't mean everyone else does.
Freedom of choice (and price) on Mac is not good at all, and I personally find that a huge huge limiting factor.
Member since:2006-05-10
Member since:2005-11-10
Freedom of choice (and price) on Mac is not good at all, and I personally find that a huge huge limiting factor.
Since a Mac can run all OS X software, has an X11 compatibility layer for UNIX/Linux apps to run right inside OS X, can dual boot into Linux or Windows, and can run Windows in virtualization inside OSX, you really can run any piece of Windows, Linux or Mac software on an Intel Mac. So what do you mean about freedom of choice not being good on a Mac? Get a Mac, you can run whatever you want on it.
As for the cost, yes a $599 Mac mini might be more expensive than a bargain-basement eMachine or something you built yourself, but it's also much smaller than a an eMachine or any shuttle you would build yourself, dead silent, and has great included features like built in wifi/bluetooth/gig ethernet/firewire, etc...so it really is a good value as I see it. For people who want to build their own systems, a Mac will never be for you. Nor will you like a Dell or a Sony or a Lenovo, for that matter. But luckily for Apple & friends, very few people are into building their own systems these days.
I do, however, agree with the previous poster that you can't enjoy a mini on 512MB RAM. Unless you're doing only the most basic stuff, you'll want at least a gig. Personally, I max out the RAM on any system I use, even a PC running Windows. (Mac mini maxes out at 2GB RAM)
Member since:2006-05-11
Good point. If you don't want OS X and iLife good - buy what you want.
I believe the author of the original comment forgot to mention something what seems natural for all Mac users and that is that the iLife applications are INTEGRATED. No other package on Windows or Linux offers this level of integration and I really looked. There is a lot of great point solution software for both Windows or Linux, but no suite that seamlesly integrates picture, video and music. Again if you don't need this you have a choice to go elsewhere and buy what you want.
As anything in life it comes to personal preference. You can chose Lenovo, Dell, Apple or any other machine to run whatever you want. Only if you want OS X and other OS's on the same machine you can get it only on Intel Mac.
Member since:2006-04-21
3. You have more "OS choice" on a Mac than you do on any Shuttle you built yourself, since it can run Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the number of Linux distributions that runs on PowerMac is less than 5. You also have NetBSD. I further believe that the number of Linux distributions which do /not/ run on an x86/AMD64 box is at best equal to the number of non-x86 platforms out there. Out of more than 300 distros, that leaves about 300 which run on X86.
So, on a PC, you can run upwards of 300 Linux distros, plus all the BSDs, various flavours of DOS, Win9x, 2K, 2K3, XP, and MacOS (via PearPC), Minix, SyllableOS, BeOS, Haiku, Solaris, OS2/eCosStation, and via emulators ITS, AROS, AmigaOS, Mac OS Classic...
When I was at school, 5 was about 295 short of 300. And I was never even any good at maths.
Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:2006-04-21
Member since:2005-11-10
Member since:2005-07-06
Also, you may want to check out iLife (iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, iWeb, iPhoto, etc.) which ships free with every Mac. It's really a lot of fun, very useful, comes free with a Mac. There's nothing comparable on Linux or Windows.
You mean,"nothing comparable on Windows". Many Linux distributions ship with much, much, much, MUCH more free, high quality open source software you can even imagine.
Member since:2005-07-06
"You mean,"nothing comparable on Windows". Many Linux distributions ship with much, much, much, MUCH more free, high quality open source software you can even imagine."
Sorry, I have to respond to this one. I use Windows, OS X and A number of Linux distributions. I have to say that Joe average Windows user would not be able to use all that high quality open source software you speak of. Free is not a good price if it sits there unused because the user can't figure out how to make it work.
With Windows they can purchase software that they can figure out. With a Mac the software comes with the system. 200 applications to do the same job are of no use if you can't make one of them do exactly what you want to do.
Member since:2006-04-21
Free is not a good price if it sits there unused because the user can't figure out how to make it work.
Neither is expensive. I don't have XP anymore because Linux does all I need, and therefore having XP on the laptop as well would waste space. I can barely compile a kernel, and use KDE. I put SuSE on the laptop because it installs faster and easier than Gentoo, which I have on my desktop/server. [So does Linus Torvalds, btw. Not {flux,black,open}box. Not WindowMaker. Not wmii.]
If my non-tech-savvy friends and family couldn't figure out amaroK I'd think they'd been bodysnatched.
Personally I can't wait until the KDE libs get a stable release on XP, so they can ditch Media Player for amaroK. They already use Firefox. I was surprised to learn yesterday they've already all ditched IncrediMail (which used yet another proprietary format for mail, nothankyouverymuch) for Thunderbird.
Oh, and about the name: On my SuSE box, amaroK is listed as Media Player (amaroK) in the KDE menu. If I set it up for my family I could get it to say just Media Player. To run amaroK at the commandline you type amarok. To run Windows Media Player at the commandline you type C:someoddpathwmplayer If they knew you don't have to type the extension, they'd wonder why Windows treats "files" and "programs" inconsistently.
Yeah, Linux is hard, alright.
Member since:2006-04-21
Member since:2005-07-06
" I was surprised to learn yesterday they've already all ditched IncrediMail (which used yet another proprietary format for mail, nothankyouverymuch) for Thunderbird. "
First, let me say thanks for keeping the discussion civil. And I can't tell you how much I despise Incredimail. :-)
Second, the programs you mention are not the problem. I agree anyone can use them on Linux as easily as the Windows equivalents. Unfortunately most people I know want to view, edit and print their photos and the last time I looked GIMP was not the easiest program to use. Also, burning is not nearly as transparent in Linux so that poses a problem as well. And when it comes to editing video/audio neither comes close to the ease with which it is handled under OS X.
I know a lot of people who would probably use and like Linux, but I would have to set it up for them and also maintain it. Admittedly, there would be fewer problems than most have under Windows. Don't get me wrong, I do like Linux but when I want to do video/audio tasks I use OS X. I just wish there was a native Mac port of Evolution.
