Linked by Adam S on Thu 1st Jun 2006 13:59 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Dozens of readers submitted today's biggest news bugget: "Ubuntu team is proud to announce the release of Ubuntu 6.06 LTS, codenamed "Dapper Drake". This release includes both installable Desktop CDs and alternate text-mode installation CDs for several architectures, for Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu." For those who like the visuals, OSDir provides the fix. Update by TH: Instructions on installing this release on Apple's MacBook.
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RE
by Kroc on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:07 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

On time.

Reply Score: 1

RE
by OMRebel on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:17 UTC in reply to "RE"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

Actually, it was delayed by 6 weeks. Not that I'm complaining, as I'll be upgrading my desktop this weekend from Breezy to Dapper.

Reply Score: 4

RE
by Kroc on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:28 UTC in reply to "RE"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

The delay was notified months before, a good reason was given, and they shipped precisely when they said. MS should be taking notes.

Reply Score: 5

Xubuntu
by da_Chicken on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:16 UTC
da_Chicken
Member since:
2006-01-01
RE: Xubuntu
by Andre4s on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:18 UTC in reply to "Xubuntu"
Andre4s Member since:
2006-02-10

What is Xubuntu? not gnome based?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Xubuntu
by DevL on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Xubuntu"
DevL Member since:
2005-07-06

That's correct. Xubuntu is based on Xfce which is considerably more lightweight than either GNOME or KDE.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Xubuntu
by AlexandreAM on Thu 1st Jun 2006 16:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Xubuntu"
AlexandreAM Member since:
2006-02-06

Although I am a Xfce 4.4 beta 1 user myself (but in Arch Linux) I would like to put a little disclaimer here.

The Xfce version being used in Xubuntu 6.06 LTS is not an official stable version (although I have had no bugs with it yet). Use it for test purposes or to full desktop needs but keep in mind that things may not work as expected and the Xfce team had not finished with it yet.

Ok... just thought I could get that clear so that the guys running Xfce (Fourdan, Meurer and the others) don't get too many complaints in the xfce-dev lists because of the "Ubuntu Effect".

Reply Score: 1

v always the same defects
by stenka phocean on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:19 UTC
RE: always the same defects
by spectator on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:26 UTC in reply to "always the same defects"
spectator Member since:
2006-02-27

> - the hardware sucks

Sounds a bit imprecise.

> - open office is really too basic and slow : how will they fight against office 2007 ?

Too basic for what?

You made two useless generalisations, you may not be able to write something more. Yet, it's still no excuse for spamming.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: always the same defects
by stenka phocean on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:35 UTC in reply to "RE: always the same defects"
stenka phocean Member since:
2006-05-17

I could give many details.

ATI drivers are shit, Canon printers or scanners as well. Turboprint is a real shame. I won't even talk about bluetooth management, TNT cards, etc, etc.
So many hours passed to configure... and sometimes it is just impossible.

Open Office ? I miss many functions of Powerpoint and Writer is good but far from the interface of Office (even in its 2000 version).

I am getting dispointed. I was very enthousiastic but I realize the improvements are slow and it won't be a killer OS before the release of Vista.

It works perfectly fine on my laptop, but I am a professional. I mean I still can't convince my wife, my parents or my friends to switch to Linux.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: always the same defects
by OMRebel on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: always the same defects"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

My ATI Radeon 9600SE runs great under Breezy with the ATI drivers.
My Canon i960 prints perfectly through TurboPrint.

I don't have bluetooth, so I can't comment on that.

My AverMedia PCI 550 works perfect, and I even have my remote working with it. I can change my desktop over to MythTV in an instant as well.

Powerpoint? Impress has always worked fine for me at work. Haven't had a powerpoint presentation that I can't view yet in the couple of years running OOo.

Which functions, specifically, of PowerPoint do you miss that aren't available in OOo?

The only thing I've found that miss in Office is MS Access, as OOo's Base hasn't yet matured enough.

My 4 year old nephew runs Breezy to play his games. He can type in his name to log into the computer He knows what to click on to bring up FireFox. It takes him to Nickelodean's website so that he can play his games.

It's obviously easy enough for anyone to use. It sounds more like a comfort zone problem.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: always the same defects
by Morgan on Thu 1st Jun 2006 16:26 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: always the same defects"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

"ATI radeon ? the dual screen is buggy and you have to edit your xorg.conf file. "

This is a problem with all video cards and all versions of GNU/Linux that I have tried, because the problem doesn't lie with the OS itself. The xorg.conf file for my nVidia 6600GT also has to be hand edited to get the correct timings and resolutions for my monitor. This is an Xorg problem, not a Linux or Ubuntu problem. From what I've seen, only SuSE gets it closer to perfection than Ubuntu, and then not by much.

If your intention was to troll, you've succeeded. If you seriously want to debate Ubuntu's hardware detection, get your facts straight first.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: always the same defects
by archiesteel on Thu 1st Jun 2006 18:20 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: always the same defects"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Will you explain your grand-ma that it is the xorg's fault and not the linux' one ? Do you think she will mind ?

Grandma should be quite happy with the free drivers that come with the system, and which work by default. So she won't get 3D acceleration right away: boo-freakin'-hoo! Her grandson will just run EasyUbuntu and all the troubles will go away...

Now, can you please stop posting off-topic messages?

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: always the same defects
by NCSUguy77 on Thu 1st Jun 2006 17:35 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: always the same defects"
NCSUguy77 Member since:
2006-06-01

I agree...
I will go with the one saying that proves this all.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

If you have cheap hardware, do not expect linux, solaris, or even windows to install and work exactly the way that would be expected.
In my past shameful days of gateway, dell, cheap mobo combos I would complain as others about linux. But it was not the OS's fault.
For the past 5 years I have repeatedly bought higher end products (but not higher priced) --mobos, vid cards, sound cards, and i have never had any problems with any major os. I have in fact installed Solaris 8, 9,10 all on first tries without really any kind of work. I just upgraded to dual amd 3800 with x800 vid card. LiveCD runs fine, the betas of this release installed fine. If there was any problems with the ATI card, I believe the first entry on google pointed me in the right direction of the 4 files i had to apt-get. I never had to touch xorg.conf except for fine tuning.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: always the same defects
by OMRebel on Thu 1st Jun 2006 18:40 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: always the same defects"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

I am very honest about TurboPrint and the Canon i960. I was able to print photo quality, yes. The only paper I print to is A4 paper, and the photo's I printed were 5x7, and they looked fine. They appeared to be a little darker than what it looks like on Windows, but they were still fine quality. Maybe it's just the driver for the i350? The i960 works perfectly. I haven't tried printing on envelopes or anything like that.

Radeon driver is fine for me. I, like most people, have 1 monitor. Outside of a normal circumstance, such as having more than one monitor, I don't know. I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I could find a problem with the driver in Windows as well.
By the way....why do you need two monitors? (just out of curiousity, as there are people that use two)

I'm not at all trying to argue with you on these things, as I know Linux isn't perfect, and I'm not being a Linux zealot. Just, for the hardware that I have, and the functions that I perform, it works fine.

At work, for those that don't have PowerPoint, I have installed OOo for them, and they have been productive with Impress, without every reporting any problems. But then, they use such presentations for just showing slides. No music, etc..

Dia and NVY? Okay, you lost me there.

As an office worker (network administrator), I work off of a XP box most of the time (as I'm on right now). I don't have MS Office installed on my XP box, and haven't in over two years. With OOo, I have been just as productive.

At home, I run Linux full time (Breezy right now), and haven't had any problems with my video card, printer, or tuner. Maybe I've just been lucky.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: always the same defects
by Ascay on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 07:55 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: always the same defects"
Ascay Member since:
2005-07-11

Radeon driver is fine for me. I, like most people, have 1 monitor. Outside of a normal circumstance, such as having more than one monitor, I don't know. I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I could find a problem with the driver in Windows as well.

Multimonitoring is really a big problem with ATI cards. I never got my Radeon 9800 working with 3d and xinerama in Breezy (didn't try Dapper yet). It's no problem at all in Windows.

By the way....why do you need two monitors? (just out of curiousity, as there are people that use two)

Work one day with two monitors and you can't work with only one anymore. I'm even considering to buy a third one. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: always the same defects
by andrewg on Thu 1st Jun 2006 17:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: always the same defects"
andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

Powerpoint? Impress has always worked fine for me at work. Haven't had a powerpoint presentation that I can't view yet in the couple of years running OOo.

Which functions, specifically, of PowerPoint do you miss that aren't available in OOo?


There is nothing wrong with OO. It just can't compare in so many ways to MS Office though. You may not need all the things Office has or it may not be worth the money. It also only runs on Windows and Mac and uses a closed file format (This is a big problem) but it is the most full featured Office package out there.

Apart from the simple tick mark approach to feature comparison MS Office just offers so many things you appreciate when you have to do something different or very specific or quickly. Examples?

1) OLE is much better in office.
2) If you have ever used 'Paste special' in office especially Excel you will know that for quickly working with a lot of data MS Office is a lot better than OO.
3) Control over printing is a lot better in MS Office.
4) If you have worked with Powerpoint and Impress you will know Impress is kludgy. Simple things like scaling are clumsy and slow. I used it for all my presentation when doing my MBA so I am not making this up. These qualitative differences show up throughout both suites. MS has done a lot more useability studies than OO and have put a lot more man hours into it. And it shows!

When I am at work and I have to clean 80,000 records for insertion into a relational database I will choose Excel. And I have used both suites extensively.

P.S. I know excel only handles 65000+ rows right now so I handle my data in two batches in the above example. So when the limit is increased that will be an improvement.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: always the same defects
by MechR on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 04:22 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: always the same defects"
MechR Member since:
2006-01-11

"Powerpoint? Impress has always worked fine for me at work. Haven't had a powerpoint presentation that I can't view yet in the couple of years running OOo.

Which functions, specifically, of PowerPoint do you miss that aren't available in OOo?"

Hm, I was cursing Impress just today while trying to save some printing paper...

I would like an outline view that doesn't suck. It should do as Powerpoint does and shrink all the text to reasonable standard sizes, as opposed to just leaving everything in varying degrees of "huge." Barring that, they could fix the crash bug that seems to result from highlighting a set of bullets and trying to change the font size.

I'm not sure whether Powerpoint has this, but a way to print outlines by the page rather than by the slide would also be nice. Either that or some dotted "page lines" in the outline view to show where page separations are. Or a print preview function. I always end up having to guess where the page separations are when printing in outline format.

On a related note, Calc can't seem to make an XY scatter plot with two different data sets for X and Y, rendering it useless to high school students everywhere...

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: always the same defects
by spectator on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 07:08 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: always the same defects"
spectator Member since:
2006-02-27

> On a related note, Calc can't seem to make an XY scatter plot with two different data sets for X and Y, rendering it useless to high school students everywhere...

Actually... it can, although it can be made afair in a very odd manner. We had such a problem on our electronical engineering laboratories, but we managed. Can't remember the method though.

On a related note, one can use a different tool, e.g. QtiPlot (works for me). The world does not end on MSOffice/OOo. ;]

Reply Score: 1

RE: always the same defects
by Terracotta on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:30 UTC in reply to "always the same defects"
Terracotta Member since:
2005-08-15

Oh and hardware support is better in Mac OS? Nop, with a mac you buy hardware for your OS, do the same for linux and you will see it burns Mac OS to dust.

OpenOffice sucks indeed but well don't use it that often anyway, what features do you miss that MS Office does offer?

Reply Score: 5

v RE[2]: always the same defects
by stenka phocean on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:39 UTC in reply to "RE: always the same defects"
RE[2]: always the same defects
by SCHWEjK on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:54 UTC in reply to "RE: always the same defects"
SCHWEjK Member since:
2006-04-05

Well, for me it's not the absence of some features (except Excel, which is far more powerful then Calc), but the performance: OO.o2 starts 3 or 5 times slower then MS Office XP on my machine (and I disabled all Office Autostarters) and is quite stringy...
Maybe it's because I'm running many processes (Firefox with myriads of tabs, Eclipse, ...), but this fact doesn't seem to hinder Office (which has other annoyances, but performs generally better for me)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: always the same defects
by CVDpr on Thu 1st Jun 2006 19:41 UTC in reply to "RE: always the same defects"
CVDpr Member since:
2005-10-17

Access?
fast and smooth Like PowerPoint?
Not import things like and Object/Picture?

Reply Score: 0

RE: always the same defects
by OMRebel on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:37 UTC in reply to "always the same defects"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

"the hardware sucks"
Which pieces of hardware are you talking about?

"open office is really too basic and slow : how will they fight against office 2007"
Funny...I've been using OO for years at work without ever having a single problem with it. Who will they fight against Office 2007? That's easy - nobody at my work will run Office 2007. Why would they? It's got more eye candy from previous Office versions, but that's it. Open Office accomplishes the exact same tasks, and in a couple years of real work place experience using it, it has been up to the task everytime.

"I am thinking more and more to Mac OS."
If that works for you, then kudos to you. Better start saving up some cash to buy one.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: always the same defects
by Wintermute on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:11 UTC in reply to "RE: always the same defects"
Wintermute Member since:
2005-07-30

People always talk about how OO has everything that MS Office has. That's not really true, I use Word mostly for making reports and essays. The Word count toolbar in MS Office is really useful, especially if certain sections of your essay/report are limited in word count.

Try adding a Word count toolbar in OO (it's not possible!). That's a showstopper for me...

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: always the same defects
by OMRebel on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: always the same defects"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

OO Writer has a word counter in it!!! I used that many of times for essays that I've had to write. Under Tools, select Word Count.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: always the same defects
by Stunami on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: always the same defects"
Stunami Member since:
2005-07-06

"Try adding a Word count toolbar in OO (it's not possible!). That's a showstopper for me..."

You can add it by clicking on a toolbar's arrow at the end of the toolbar and select customize toolbar.

then click add and select options in the category list and then word count in the Commands list

click add. then move it to where you want on the toolbar using the up and down arrows

and finally ok

Reply Score: 4

Don T. Bothers Member since:
2006-03-15

OpenOffice is indeed very powerful. I think most people have problems with it because it looks close enough to MS Office, but the way you do some of the stuff is different. The reason of course is that OpenOffice deviates from MS Office when there is a correct way to do it and when there is a Microsoft way of doing thigs. Unfortunately, most people just panic when they run into these situations rather than looking at the great Help documentation. A simple example of this is how you add page numbers in OpenOffice versus how you do it in Word.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: always the same defects
by ricks1950 on Thu 1st Jun 2006 17:53 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: always the same defects"
ricks1950 Member since:
2006-03-21

If you really want to move away from Windows, all of the issues in this discussion are solvable.

It's trivial to find hardware that is Linux compatable, the software in Ubuntu replaces most of what is available for Windows, with few gaps, and it is brain-dead easy to use, upgrade and add software. And, it is FREE!

If you can't deal with Ubuntu dapper, you probably shouldn't be allowed to use a computer.

If you want to stick with Windows, it is your choice, and your money.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: always the same defects
by Wintermute on Thu 1st Jun 2006 18:51 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: always the same defects"
Wintermute Member since:
2005-07-30

Thanks for the info, I'll try it out. Strange that I couldn't get this to work cause I remembering doing something similar to what you described.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: always the same defects
by andrewg on Thu 1st Jun 2006 16:27 UTC in reply to "RE: always the same defects"
andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

If you have been using OO for years your are:

a) Happy with limited amatuer looking graphs/charts.
b) Don't use charts/graphs.

And lastly Base does not even remotely compare with acess as frontend or RAD for databases.

Edited 2006-06-01 16:41

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: always the same defects
by OMRebel on Thu 1st Jun 2006 18:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: always the same defects"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

No, I do not use charts or graphs. I never used charts or graphs when I did have Office. When it comes to actually needing to provide details, execs want real solid numbers and figures, not pictures.

I didn't say Base compared. Re-read my post. I said Access was better than Base. And, if I wanted to use something powerful for a frontend, it wouldn't be Access. Lots of better products out there.

Reply Score: 1

RE: always the same defects
by jcinacio on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:40 UTC in reply to "always the same defects"
jcinacio Member since:
2006-03-12

You should try using the default windows drivers for all your hardware... if you do manage to get everything installed, things like graphics performance will pretty much... suck.

The problem is hardware vendors (and yes, to some extent tht open vs closed source vs kernel whatever discussion)

The point, IMHO, is that linux itself supports a LOT of harware considering most of the vendors (still) don't care. Most will only care when they start loosing a significant market share to competitors who do.

Reply Score: 5

v RE[2]: always the same defects
by stenka phocean on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:45 UTC in reply to "RE: always the same defects"
Faster download
by twanj on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:21 UTC
twanj
Member since:
2006-05-25

If you have Windows, try downloading w/ GetRight 6 & http://www.metalinker.org. it's a Mirrors/p2p hybrid.

http://www.metalinker.org/samples/Ubuntu_6.06_(Dapper_Drake)_desktop_amd64_ISO.metalink
http://www.metalinker.org/samples/Ubuntu_6.06_(Dapper_Drake)_desktop_i386_ISO.metalink

Reply Score: 0

RE: always the same defects
by silicon on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:31 UTC
silicon
Member since:
2005-07-30

Might I correct you:

-the hardware vendors suck (such as Logitech)

They are the ones neither releasing specs nor binary drivers for Linux.

Reply Score: 5

v RE[2]: always the same defects
by Joe User on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:16 UTC in reply to "RE: always the same defects"
RE[3]: always the same defects
by Terracotta on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: always the same defects"
Terracotta Member since:
2005-08-15

Do some research and buy a linux compatible system, never had any problems with that.I suppose you do some research before you buy your mac too?
Besides the same can be said from a dell pc or ISV pc's they install the software packet, the advantage of a mac is not its hardware support.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: always the same defects
by OMRebel on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: always the same defects"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

75% chance to experience hardware incompatibility? Wow....you're doing some serious trolling.

I haven't had any incompatibility problems like that on the machines that I've installed Linux on. If you're happy with your overpriced Mac, then be happy with it. But, just outright lying to try to make your Mac look better isn't doing yourself any favors.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: always the same defects
by Morin on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 19:58 UTC in reply to "RE: always the same defects"
Morin Member since:
2005-12-31

> -the hardware vendors suck (such as Logitech)
>
> They are the ones neither releasing specs nor binary drivers for Linux.

Exactly. And without specs its hard to write a good driver, so there is no good driver in the end.

But one thing isn't clear to me: Do you think that Logitech will chance their mind because Linux users say this again and again? Or that more people will use Linux because, although their hardware doesn't work correctly then, at least they have someone to blame?

Or do you simply deny the fact that Logitech is in the strong position and Linux in the weak one?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: always the same defects
by archiesteel on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 20:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: always the same defects"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Exactly. And without specs its hard to write a good driver, so there is no good driver in the end.

That's a fallacious statement. Just because something is hard, doesn't mean it's impossible to do it well.

But one thing isn't clear to me: Do you think that Logitech will chance their mind because Linux users say this again and again? Or that more people will use Linux because, although their hardware doesn't work correctly then, at least they have someone to blame?

You present this as if these were the only two options available...

The fact is that, as paying customers, Linux users are entitled to complain to Logitech. If enough people do it, then maybe they'll in fact change their mind over time.

After all, Logitech has nothing to gain from ignoring Linux. Some hardware vendors, such as NVIDIA and Epson (and, to a certain degree ATI) have already understood this.

Reply Score: 1

Long Term Support Questions
by Don T. Bothers on Thu 1st Jun 2006 14:42 UTC
Don T. Bothers
Member since:
2006-03-15

1) When installing packages, how do you know whether it will be supported for 3 years (desktop) or 5 years (server)?

2) Will the Ubuntu team release updated releases with new driver support during the 5 year lifecycle?

Edited 2006-06-01 14:43

Reply Score: 1

RE: Long Term Support Questions
by butters on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:59 UTC in reply to "Long Term Support Questions"
butters Member since:
2005-07-08

I don't think the support terms are based on individual packages, but on which "Ubuntu distro" you are running. Ubuntu will support the server repositories for 5 years and the desktop repos for 3. If you do a dist-upgrade from desktop to server after three years, you might be able to get two more years of updates (but by then you'd probably have upgraded to a newer release).

And yes, a key part of the support is security and kernel updates, so you'll get new versions of your mainline drivers.

Reply Score: 2

jcinacio Member since:
2006-03-12

i don't think you can just "dist-upgrade from desktop to server"... the only difference between a server and a desktop is the desktop has a whole lot more packages installed by default, and the server may use a different kernel.

other than that, you can "downgrade" a desktop to a server install by removing all the relevant packages, or "upgrade" (bad choice of word here) a server to desktop by adding additional packages.

IMHO, 5-year support on the server means any package on the main repositories wich may be used on a standard server install.

Reply Score: 1

SCHWEjK Member since:
2006-04-05

Well, some arguments don't make sense in my eyes:
Since when did Windows ever support every pice of hardware _out_of_the_box_?
Printers, WiFi NICs, Scanners.. all need drivers provided by the manufacturers. So it really seems to be their fault that some things are not working.. especially when you think about all the hardware where there's not even some kind of documentation.

Reply Score: 5

Terracotta Member since:
2005-08-15

Most of the time drivers are installed out of the box, manufacturers on the other hand ARE to blame because there's only one manufacturer that releases decent closed drivers: nvidia, hardware with open specs on the other hand are most likely to work anyway. You're not supposed to install them later on (that's the idea at least: it should be available in the kernel) but well if manufacturers don't care it's their own fault.
Your windows installation (most likely, correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't work out of the box because windows has that many drivers out of the box, but because your ISV has installed it for you and delivers a Cd-with all the drivers. The wifi support of your laptop often is preinstalled and is not a microsoft driver but an independant one.

So if you go to a shop and buy a pc with (K)Ubuntu pre-installed on you can be quite sure your wifi will work. If you buy your new add-on hardware with a little bit of care there's also no problem, if your hardware is a little bit older it's most likely supported (except for lexmark printers which is known to cause problems with linux in general)

Reply Score: 2

mark_in_rdjbrasil Member since:
2005-11-30

well, i don't know about the vista comparison, but i need to agree on the comparison with pc linux. i admit ubuntu looks terrific, but the base installation falls way short. where is limewire ? i couldn't find amsn in the synaptic repository, i hate gaim. i couldn't find
libdvdcss2 either. i don't claim to be a linux genius, and i think ubuntu has its place...but not on my computers.

Edited 2006-06-01 18:23

Reply Score: 1

tristan Member since:
2006-02-01

well, i don't know about the vista comparison, but i need to agree on the comparison with pc linux. i admit ubuntu looks terrific, but the base installation falls way short. where is limewire ? i couldn't find amsn in the synaptic repository, i hate gaim. i couldn't find
libdvdcss2 either. i don't claim to be a linux genius, and i think ubuntu has its place...but not on my computers.


In no particular order... Amsn is definitely available in the Universe repository.

libdvdcss2 is not included in the repositories for obvious reasons -- Canonical are scared of being sued, and I can't blame them, given the way the Motion Picture Ass. of America carry on. Around 7 seconds of Googling found me a URL where I could download ready-made debs of libdvdcss and the W32 codecs. You can even install these graphically in Dapper.

As to Limewire, two possible reasons that (a) it's legally dubious as 99% of its use is for sharing copyrighted music, and (b) it requires Sun Java, which didn't make it into the repositories till last week, and no-one's had a chance to package Limewire yet.

Again though, this is hardly a problem when you can go to frostwire.com and download a ready-made .deb of Frostwire, the nag-free version of Limewire, and again easily install it by double-clicking the downloaded file.

Reply Score: 1

kcy29581
Member since:
2006-05-11

For me, the inclusion of a graphical interface for wireless networking is one the best features. Finally Ubuntu can be installed on a laptop that has wireless capabilities, and "see" (and connect!) wireless networks without diving into too many config files.

As a side note: is Thom ill today? Usually servers break down due to the "release announcements" he makes while servers are syncing!

Edited 2006-06-01 15:01

Reply Score: 2

I am going Edgy soon................
by silicon on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:09 UTC
silicon
Member since:
2005-07-30

The Edgy repository will be up sometime in the next two weeks. Edgy will have a lot of huge changes, Read
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+specs
in the next few days for actual goals.

Then after Edgy I might go grumpy (the permanent unstable release: Grumpy GroundHog).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: always the same defects
by silicon on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:34 UTC
silicon
Member since:
2005-07-30

Now give me a break........

Kernel Panics ???????????

When was the last time I saw one : ummmmmmm... yes 2 years ago.

Hardware incompatibilities DO NOT create kernel panics, bad drivers or screwed up hardware does.

Now I am beginning to wonder: Are you a Mac zealot?

Almost all motherboard chipsets are compatible with Linux in any and every way. As for graphics : the support is decent with binary drivers for Nvidia (not ATI) and OSS drivers for almost all integrated video chips.

Areas where hardware support is miserable (although not Linux' fault : cameras (digital or JPEG webcams), certain printers/scanners and winmodems (Nobody uses these nowadays.)

Consider the fact that one of the largest PC peripheral manufacturers: Logitech has *NO* Linux drivers or specs for any peripheral they sell and I *DON'T* see a compelling reason why they can't release even a binary driver for Linux. The Linux kernel has been pretty much stable (of course there are minor bugs but no grave ones). The Linux kernel is being heavily developed : API changes are expected. If hardware vendors cant keep track with API changes every 18 months, they should'nt be selling hardware.

As for Mac OS : It only supports a small collection of hardware as the configuration is strictly controlled by Apple. You cant compare an OS that can only effectively run on 3% of the world's PCs with the Linux kernel which supports 11 archs and much more hardware by default.

Edited 2006-06-01 15:42

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: always the same defects
by jcinacio on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:42 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: always the same defects"
jcinacio Member since:
2006-03-12

"Almost all motherboard chipsets are compatible with Linux in any and every way. As for graphics : the support is decent with binary drivers for Nvidia (not ATI) and OSS drivers for almost all integrated video chips.

Areas where hardware support is miserable (although not Linux' fault : cameras (digital or JPEG webcams), certain printers/scanners and winmodems (Nobody uses these nowadays.) "


Exactly.
And by the way, if you only want to set up a server, you can install linux on pretty much any piece of hardware (following the min specs for the distro) and know that it will work.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: always the same defects
by silicon on Thu 1st Jun 2006 15:39 UTC
silicon
Member since:
2005-07-30

The ATI Radeon R200 bug is ATI's own fault look at:
http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=373

Why do you blame Linux for shitty binary drivers produced by a company which has a *VERY* BAD record of Linux driver support?

Reply Score: 3

stenka phocean Member since:
2006-05-17

I said it is the constructor's fault.
But as a result, I am just getting tired of Linux.
And I don't agree the fanatics who try to hide such problems or saying "everything works perfectly".

That's not right, there are many problems wich result in a big loss of time.

And they must be corrected before vista, otherwise Linux will stay forever a minor OS on the desktop market share.

Reply Score: 0

alternate or desktop?
by butters on Thu 1st Jun 2006 16:12 UTC
butters
Member since:
2005-07-08

I'd like to interrupt your regularly scheduled debates comparing hardware support on Linux/Windows/MacOS with a question that directly relates to the new Ubuntu release: for those of you who are installing fresh (i.e. not updating from a previous version), which installer did you choose (desktop or alternate), and what are your comments?

The release notes really don't explain the difference, but I get the sense that desktop is a LiveCD with an graphical install routine and alternate is the usual ncurses-based installer. I really don't *need* a graphical installer (the ncurses version has worked fine for me), but it would be nice to have a LiveCD as a bonus, and I don't want to download both isos. So, how well does the graphical installer work? Does anyone have any horror stories?

Reply Score: 2

RE: alternate or desktop?
by stenka phocean on Thu 1st Jun 2006 16:15 UTC in reply to "alternate or desktop?"
stenka phocean Member since:
2006-05-17

The live CD is quite convenient. It is fully working and has several interesting application, including gparted.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: alternate or desktop?
by da_Chicken on Thu 1st Jun 2006 16:37 UTC in reply to "alternate or desktop?"
da_Chicken Member since:
2006-01-01

The GUI installer on the live-cd is much faster than the ncurses installer.

The possible downside is that the live-cd installer doesn't ask you where you would like to install GRUB (it goes to MBR whether you like that or not). And, AFAIK, you cannot use the live-cd to install any of the extra stuff (like build-essential) that is included, but not installed by default, on the ncurses installer. And with the ncurses installer you can install only the base system and build your own custom Ubuntu system from there, if that is your fancy.

Reply Score: 1

RE: alternate or desktop?
by SCHWEjK on Thu 1st Jun 2006 20:01 UTC in reply to "alternate or desktop?"
SCHWEjK Member since:
2006-04-05

Well, I still prefer the ncurses installer: the LiveCD version doesn't allow to set up LVMs and selecting a bootloader loacation
If you don't need it, the LiveCD Version works just fine.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: always the same defects
by theine on Thu 1st Jun 2006 16:39 UTC
theine
Member since:
2005-09-29

Yes, we know! Office software sucks in general, and OpenOffice in particular. But this news item is not about OpenOffice but about Ubuntu Dapper, so how about staying on topic?

Reply Score: 4

Driver issues?
by Almindor on Thu 1st Jun 2006 16:51 UTC
Almindor
Member since:
2006-01-16

All these "defects" and "why linux isn't vista killer" reasons are driver issues, WHICH IS NOT A FAULT OF LINUX.

Actualy, you criticizers should get reprimanded for saying that. The guys who work on Linux, do tremendous work to get all kind of shitty hardware with closed specs working. They have to do near-voodoo to get enough info for protocols etc.

You should be shouting at the device manufacturers.

I agree with OO.o remarks however. On the other hand, it's more than enough for typical home-SOHO use and high schools and less.

Reply Score: 2

Party!
by SK8T on Thu 1st Jun 2006 17:44 UTC
SK8T
Member since:
2006-06-01

Let's open the champagne and click glasses together! This is the best Ubuntu release I've ever seen and a reason to party! Ubuntu is now so much better as Vista!

I was able to set it up in 10 Minutes! With mp3 codec, w32codecs, java, flash, and all software I need. And it runs absolutly stable! In my opinion, it's much easier as breezy; and much more modern!

At all; in my opinion, it's the best linux distribution at all. Everyone did a good job. You can "feel" the work of the community. After all 7 months of work bring a really great operating system to us!

I've never see a system running so perfect - stable - and relative fast. And it's really user friendly in my opinion.

Overall it's an event to celebrate. Cheers =)

Reply Score: 1

theine
Member since:
2005-09-29

well, i don't know about the vista comparison, but i need to agree on the comparison with pc linux. i admit ubuntu looks terrific, but the base installation falls way short. where is limewire ? i couldn't find amsn in the synaptic repository, i hate gaim. i couldn't find
libdvdcss2 either.


If you're willing to make a tiny bit of effort (I'm guessing you are not, but anyway...), you can go to http://wiki.ubuntu.com or #ubuntu on freenode and have your problems solved in a matter of minutes.

Reply Score: 2

First Dapper bug
by Drune on Thu 1st Jun 2006 21:02 UTC
Drune
Member since:
2005-12-04

There is a serious bug in Ubuntu Dapper. Please check it and help to fix this one:
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1

Reply Score: 1

Great job!
by d_Yn on Thu 1st Jun 2006 21:07 UTC
d_Yn
Member since:
2005-07-06

Ok, I dist-upped 3 ubuntu boxes today and did a clean install for a linux-noob collegue from scratch. I'm extremely impressed with all the polish this distro got recently. I could not really mention a commercial distribution showing the same user experience out of the box. Way to go Ubuntu!

Reply Score: 1

So Far, So Good
by rx182 on Thu 1st Jun 2006 21:09 UTC
rx182
Member since:
2005-07-08

I installed Dapper (final) this morning and I am really impressed. It is much faster than the alpha7 build from 2-3weeks ago.

This time, it's really easy to make it look great. Just pick up the IndustrialTango theme that comes with it and go download the gnome:indentity wallpaper at:

http://art.gnome.org/backgrounds/gnome/1088

It looks great, it's fast, it's all nice! ;)

On the other side, there is one thing that annoyed me a bit: after installing it, there was 69 updates (130M) available for it. This is no good for the newbies (and even for the professionals). Why so many updates everyday? I dont need xorg-server-7.0.0-ubuntu40 monday, -ubuntu41 tuesday .... -ubuntu45 friday. I think they should wait before releasing updates...well no longer than a week to please everyone of course. But we seriously dont need to download 100M worth of updates everyday. And dont tell me 'just ignore it', I CANT. ive severe mental problems ;) No seriously, it's really a problem since it warns you all the time about updates available.

Edited 2006-06-01 21:12

Reply Score: 1

RE: So Far, So Good
by sledgehammer89 on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 06:50 UTC in reply to "So Far, So Good"
sledgehammer89 Member since:
2006-02-02

> one thing that annoyed me a bit: after installing it, there was 69 updates

Then you shouldn't download/install the release *candidate* and go with the release!
This is not Ubuntus fault. There are about 5 updates now with the *final* release installation.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: So Far, So Good
by rx182 on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 10:29 UTC in reply to "RE: So Far, So Good"
rx182 Member since:
2005-07-08


> one thing that annoyed me a bit: after installing it, there was 69 updates

Then you shouldn't download/install the release *candidate* and go with the release!
This is not Ubuntus fault. There are about 5 updates now with the *final* release installation


I did a clean install! I didnt go from RC to final.

Reply Score: 1

Looks great
by Jokel on Thu 1st Jun 2006 21:54 UTC
Jokel
Member since:
2006-06-01

I tried both Ubuntu and Kubuntu. Both installed without a hickup on two different systems, recognising all the hardware I throwed at it. Impressive...

Now - seeing all the debate about OpenOffice I would like to make two remarks:

1. This is not about OpenOffice - its about the final realease of Ubuntu/Kubuntu.

2. Even if you have to say something about OpenOffice lets get one thing straight.... It could be OpenOffice is lacking here and there, but dont forget one thing - it wont cost you anything! The cost of OpenOffice is nil, zero, nada! Now - ask yourself - are you prepared to fork out a LOT of money for MS-Office just to get the few items you are missing? Please...even if you payed half the price of MS-Office for it, OpenOffice would be real good value for money. But no - it wont cost you anything, so stop wailing and be thankfull to get a piece of complex software for free!!!

Now - back to Ubuntu/Kubuntu. I used the LiveCd version and install from that. The install went smooth fast and simple. I'm ready to explore everything a bit deeper, but found no show-stoppers sofar.

Reply Score: 2

Re: always the same defects
by amaze_9 on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 00:46 UTC
amaze_9
Member since:
2005-11-12

- the hardware sucks
I don't usually have any trouble at all. Newer Canon printers (eg i865 and i6100) are a pain in the neck. All my other stuff works fine.

- open office is really too basic and slow : how will they fight against office 2007 ?
I'm not trying to be a troll here, but I do find openoffice too slow. This leads me to stick to MS Office on Windows PCs.

I love openoffice.org's features though, like exporting to PDF, and importing MS Office files.

Reply Score: 1

Dapper RC to Release Upgrade
by dhaneshr on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 01:09 UTC
dhaneshr
Member since:
2006-01-13

I installed Dapper RC last week and spent the next couple of days configuring it to my taste. I have been downloading a slew of updates over the past few days via update manager. Now that Dapper Release is out, I issued a gksudo "update-manager -d" command. Update manager prompted that I was "up to date". Am I missing something here ? I just want to make sure I'm in sync with the final release version. How do I ensure that ?

For teh first time the "Fn" keys on my Latitude D600 actually works out of the box. I'm impressed.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Dapper RC to Release Upgrade
by hkl8324 on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 18:12 UTC in reply to "Dapper RC to Release Upgrade"
hkl8324 Member since:
2006-01-01

Maybe you are already using the finally version of Dapper.
Sometimes, in the software would, the RC is bit identical to the Final release...

That is the reason behind the name, Release Candidate...

Reply Score: 1

Grub
by jackson on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 02:14 UTC
jackson
Member since:
2005-06-29

Can someone tell me how I can install the Drake GRUB to some place other than the MBR? It looks like this new installer has taken those "advanced" options away from you, like Linspire used to. I have a bootloader already on my MBR and I don't want Drake to mess with it, but it looks like I'm out of luck.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Grub
by smitty on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 03:18 UTC in reply to "Grub"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

You have to use the text-mode installation instead of the new LiveCD one.

Reply Score: 2

I like it but it still far from usable
by mnem0 on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 07:43 UTC
mnem0
Member since:
2006-03-23

I installed dapper dual-botting along with my win2k last night. I used the desktop CD and I resize my partition using the GUI partition tool.

DAPPER MANAGED TO SCREW UP MY PARTITION TABLE SO THAT NOW NTLOADER IS MISSING AND WIN2K CANNOT BE STARTED.

Damn, that really pisses me off. It feels like the nineties all over again... Still, it's very nice that somebody is working on partition resizing and so on for the installer... this type of functionality is very very important. I guess I'm gonna have to boot with a MSDOS cd now and do the good old "fisk.exe /mbr" trick, then boot using a linux rescue disc and have grub/lilo or whatever update the boot loader.

I also miss the ability to "preview" screensavers. Why was that removed (or was it just moved to some other dialog where I cant find it?)

---

Anyway, I really like the render speed increase for non-3D stuff in Gnome and the new "Human" theme is absolutely awesome. Very clean, very slick; I love it.

Another thing I really enjoyed was that my NTFS files where readble out of the box (on breezy there was some problem with the permissions).

I used EasyUbuntu to installl mp3 support etc and that worked like a charm. Windows doesn't come even close to this.

I had around 20 movies on my NTFS partition (xvid, divx, avi and similar codecs). All but one of them actually played in the default mediaplayer once I installed the codecs using EasyUbuntu. The last one actually hanged the mediaplayer so I had to "force quit" which was sad. I guess that in Windows the "playable rate" is similar in that roughly one in twenty files is missing some codec and cannot be played properly however in Windows the media player never crashes it only says "cant be played" or displays a screwed up version of the movie (bad color, bad deinterlacing or whatever).

All in all, i'm very impressed with Dapper -- it's so great to see that Linux is truely moving forward for each release.

Reply Score: 2

amd64
by netpython on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 11:58 UTC
netpython
Member since:
2005-07-06

Is it a phenomena or has someone else experienced problems with the text-installer too?

During install the process bailed out at kernel install because it supposedly couldn īt find kernel-amd64-generic.

Reply Score: 1

PPC LiveCD, no X
by orfanum on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 12:23 UTC
orfanum
Member since:
2006-06-02

Hmm, I feel as though I am back in a timewarp too - tried kubuntu ppc live cd yesterday on a DV imac 400 with half a gig of ram after waiting with great anticipation, what's this, the pretty kubuntu bells ring and that's it, blank screen? This is going to disappoint a lot of people!

Sure this will be reported to add back, but I find it a bit puzzling to be seeing such problems - maybe I am doing something wrong, or just don't know how to kick that old imac back into wakefulness (I am a PC bod usually, and the livecd boot does take an inordinately long time to happen). Anyone else had this experience?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: always the same defects
by Soulbender on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 14:43 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

"- the hardware sucks"

Its not Linux fault that your hardware sucks.

"- open office is really too basic and slow : how will they fight against office 2007 ?"

The majority of computer users in the world dont need office 2007 and it's overwhelming abundance of features of which they'll use maybe 10%.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: always the same defects
by Soulbender on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 14:49 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

"And lastly Base does not even remotely compare with acess as frontend or RAD for databases."

Eh, if you use *Access" to do any serious database design work, RAD or otherwiser, you should seek professional help.

Reply Score: 1

congrats to cananonical
by REMF on Fri 2nd Jun 2006 15:19 UTC
REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

.......... and thank god Kubuntu is included in the Shipit program!

Reply Score: 1