Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 14:27 UTC
Apple Earlier this year, Apple, after a long wait, updated its pro line of laptops by introducing the MacBook Pro, the Intel-powered equivalent of the PowerBook. MacSupport, together with Apple Netherlands, was so kind as to provide OSNews with a MacBook Pro for review purposes. Since Adam bought a MacBook Pro for himself only a few days earlier, we decided to review the machines together. Here are our findings.
Order by: Score:
The MBP Keyboard isn't really good...
by shadow_x99 on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 15:02 UTC
shadow_x99
Member since:
2006-05-12

I've tried the MBP from my brother, and I've used for a couple of hours, and I must say that I totally hated the Keyboard...

Make no mistake, I am a laptop user( I still uses my old Toshiba regularly) but the keyboard wasn't made for me... I got rather big hands, and a small 'enter' key is really annoying for me.

My brother didn't have a problem since he got it (No battery or heat problem)... He, unlike myself, got used to the keyboard.

Reply Score: 2

glossy screen
by halfmanhalfamazing on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 15:03 UTC
halfmanhalfamazing
Member since:
2005-07-23

I wish these companies offered customers the choice.

I hate the glossy screen. I can buy a mirror for 30 dollars at the local home improvement store.

Choice choice choice.

Reply Score: 2

RE: glossy screen
by BryanFeeney on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 15:59 UTC in reply to "glossy screen"
BryanFeeney Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple does offer a choice. It's right there alongside hard-disk size, RAM and so on, you get the choice of glossy or non-glossy, and for no extra charge.

Reply Score: 4

RE: glossy screen
by Governa on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 06:06 UTC in reply to "glossy screen"
Governa Member since:
2006-04-09

[quote]I wish these companies offered customers the choice. I hate the glossy screen.[/quote]

Apple does offer a choice (glossy or non-glossy) and for no extra charge.

Reply Score: 1

RE
by Kroc on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 15:03 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Rubbish, you sound like a bunch of old women.
I'm somebody who doesn't just browse, IM and the like, I actually use a Macbook Pro to earn my living.

* The keyboard is excellent, it's soft and responsive with very large keys. The tiny enter buttons, whilst odd to begin with is easy to get used to - if not a brilliant idea. It helps shift the keyboard 'one key to the right' so that you have a more central typing position. It's against the side of keyboard with nothing next to it, and of all the keys, enter is the one I've never ever missed, not once.

* the wireless reception is better than the G4's, they've moved the attenae and I get fantastic reception. Get a decent router instead of some natty DLink.

* The heat is a problem, that I won't avoid. I'm usually working on a desk all the time so I can survive. Wait for Rev.B people if mobile is important to you.

* What screen have you got? The Macbook Pro can have a glossy screen as *optional*. The matte screen has no viewing angle issues, and infact has a great viewing angle.

* Hefty price? Before my Macbook Pro I had a Sony VAIO for £1500 and it was chunky, loud, ran Windows, had no camera, didn't have the digital optical ports, didn't have a hella cool backlit keyboard, didn't have ambient light sensors and most of all didn't have a magnetic power adapter. For the £1430 I paid for my Macbook Pro it was a friggin bargain.

* Mediocre? It's the best laptop I've ever had, and I've only ever used VAIOs for the last five years and they get a lot of abuse. The Macbook is so thin my fingers feel like they're going to strike the table if I type any harder.

You are clearly not regular users, or anybody who has work requirements for a machine.

Reply Score: 4

RE
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 15:12 UTC in reply to "RE"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

* the wireless reception is better than the G4's, they've moved the attenae and I get fantastic reception. Get a decent router instead of some natty DLink.

Great. But read carefully; the reception of the MBP was WORSE than what I got from my G4 iBook. My Dell, and even my PocketPC, has better reception.

What screen have you got? The Macbook Pro can have a glossy screen as *optional*. The matte screen has no viewing angle issues, and infact has a great viewing angle.

Did you read? We clearly stated we both do NOT have the glossy screen.

Other than that, I talked to Apple about the screen, and they CONFIRMED the viewing angle is rather small-- they do that to hinder people looking over your shoulder. Irrelevant to me, I prefer a large viewing angle.

Hefty price? Before my Macbook Pro I had a Sony VAIO for £1500 and it was chunky, loud, ran Windows, had no camera, didn't have the digital optical ports, didn't have a hella cool backlit keyboard, didn't have ambient light sensors and most of all didn't have a magnetic power adapter. For the £1430 I paid for my Macbook Pro it was a friggin bargain.

Great for you, I'm happy for you. My experience was different.

Reply Score: 1

RE
by Arun on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:44 UTC in reply to "RE"
Arun Member since:
2005-07-07

Other than that, I talked to Apple about the screen, and they CONFIRMED the viewing angle is rather small-- they do that to hinder people looking over your shoulder. Irrelevant to me, I prefer a large viewing angle.

I was just going to say that some of the new screens have a privacy feature to limit viewing angles. It's not Apples fault or a defect or an inferior screen. Most professionals on a plane don't want others looking into thier screens. Atleast I wouldn't.

Also as techincal writer you should have been more specific about which viewing angle is bad for you. From all accounts only the vertical viewing angle is limited and the horizontal angle is infact almost +/- 90 degress from most accounts.Apples's laptops are generally desinged to have the display tilted back and not kept vertical. Most ergonomics or human factors organizations will recommend that as the best positioning of a display device. Read the OSHA guidelines.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/components_mon...

It is a perfectly valid feature for a pro machine contrary to what you stated. You should have been a more aware buyer.

Reply Score: 2

RE
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:46 UTC in reply to "RE"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Also as techincal writer you should have been more specific about which viewing angle is bad for you.

I said angleS. Seeing there are only two (vertical and horizontal), you can now know which I was referring to (namely, both).

But yes, I should've been clearer.

It is a perfectly valid feature for a pro machine contrary to what you stated.

It is not when the viewing angle is THAT small. Seriously, as I said in the review, by tilting your head SLIGHTLY, the colours change. I am not kidding. The angles are simply too narrow, pro machine or not.

Reply Score: 1

RE
by BluenoseJake on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:06 UTC in reply to "RE"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

It's not a bug it's a Feature(tm)!

Reply Score: 2

RE
by suryad on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 22:52 UTC in reply to "RE"
suryad Member since:
2005-07-09

I own a Dell XPS Generation 1 that I bought while I was in univeristy 2 years ago to do my work for projects and so on and also play games when I could. For that reason I had to use XP of course. while not the greatest OS it does more than what I need to do. Right now I am still using the same laptop to earn my living. The only problem it has is heat dissipation. So the point of my post is...everyone will have their opinions as to what is great and what is not so great. I for one like to have power over everything else no matter what machine I use. That is why my XP install is tweaked and skinned to an inch of its life using nLite and so on. I dont use antispyware tools because I know what NOT to do and so I have never had a problem. I know how to make my system work for me. That is what people should learn to do as well. I am not going to say Macbooks are the best because they arent. It is the OS behind them that makes using it a joy to use. WHy do you think Apple is not going to make OS X be installable on any machine with an EFI? Because they know people dont just buy their laptops because it looks great or has better hardware because it doesnt. They have flaws just like other laptops and the only reason why people like to buy them is because of the OS. Some think that the laptops look cool but then again I never bought a machine because it looked cool. My laptop is as ugly as it gets but boy does it command respect from my peers. So in other words dont tell people please that they are not regular users or anydbody who has work requirements for machine. You do not know what people use their machines for. I am glad you like your Macbook just as I like my XPS.

PS: You do know Macbooks because of heat issues have their graphics cards downlocked than what clockspeeds are normal for those cards right?

Reply Score: 1

RE
by apoc on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 21:45 UTC in reply to "RE"
apoc Member since:
2006-03-24

"Why do you think Apple is not going to make OS X be installable on any machine with an EFI?"

EFI isn't even required to run Mac OS X.

"* Hefty price? Before my Macbook Pro I had a Sony VAIO for £1500 and it was chunky, loud, ran Windows, had no camera, didn't have the digital optical ports, didn't have a hella cool backlit keyboard, didn't have ambient light sensors and most of all didn't have a magnetic power adapter. For the £1430 I paid for my Macbook Pro it was a friggin bargain."

humm, you didn't buy it this year or a week before you got your MBP, did you?

this is today's 1500£ Sony VAIO:

VGN-AR11M

http://vaio.sony-europe.com/view/View.action?section=Products_ITE&p...

Reply Score: 1

Khoji
Member since:
2005-08-17

Overheating on the entire MacBook range is a build defect, not a design defect. The problem is that Apple's build specs specify using HUGE quantities of thermal compound, which act as an insulator instead of as a heat transfer medium. This is documented on many websites and some people have even found photos from the Apple service manual showing the "correct" method of applying the thermal grease -- the picture shows a hand with a syringe applying so much grease that it will flow over all around the chip when the heatsink is installed.

The Apple hardware is actually well capable of getting the heat of the components out of the case. If you take apart the MacBook/Pro, clean the low-quality thermal grease from the heatsinks and chips and correctly apply the proper amount of a high-quality thermal grease like Arctic Silver 5 the temperature will go down to normal Intel Core Duo levels. Most users report temperature drops of from 15°C to over 20°C across the board.

Unfortunately, doing this yourself voids the warranty (although it will actually increase the life of the hot chips). I wanted to buy a MacBook here in Cologne but I said that I would only buy it if the technician corrected the thermal grease problem while I was watching (I've never yet seen a computer shop apply thermal grease correctly) and without voiding my warranty. They refused, and so I still have a Samsung P35 with a 2GHz Pentium M.

Reply Score: 2

Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

This has been proven to be untrue. The problem was wit the fans, not the thermal compound, as originally reported.

Reply Score: 1

Khoji Member since:
2005-08-17

This has been proven to be untrue. The problem was wit the fans, not the thermal compound, as originally reported.

How was this proved? There may also be a problem with the fans but if the photos of the innards of all those MacBooks were not faked then there was/is a SERIOUS problem with the thermal compound on those machines. Applying that much will definitely cause overheating, even Steve Jobs' reality distortion field can't bend the laws of physics. Also, I read several reports confirming the 15-20°C temperature drop after correcting the problem. This tallies precisely with my long experience of building my own computers, including updating Pentium M processors on laptops. That is exactly the sort of temperature differential I would expect after correcting the thermal compound problem shown in the MacBooks.

I should add that I am going on the photos and reports I have seen. If those photos are genuine then the thermal compound is the main problem. If not then that may not be it, but the fact remains that the MacBook Pro runs much too hot.

Edited 2006-06-22 15:24

Reply Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The compound, when re-applied properly, did NOT fix the problem for people who tried it. It brought the temp down only 1 or 2 degrees, that's hardly relevant.

Reply Score: 1

junior Member since:
2005-07-07

These people must have screwed up then. If both blowers and the heat pipe thermal sensor are functioning as they should, reapplying the thermal paste will fix the problem. No matter how much some people here don't want this to be true.

Reply Score: 2

shadow_x99 Member since:
2006-05-12

Most people reported that after the firmware upgrade, CPU temperatures returned to normal parameters. Perhaps that applying both would produce even better results, but are you willing to void your warranty?

Reply Score: 1

Khoji Member since:
2005-08-17

Perhaps that applying both would produce even better results, but are you willing to void your warranty?

I'm not willing to buy a computer that overheats. Period. I'm waiting until the issue has been resolved -- and anyway the Merom Core Duo will be a much better chip and by the time that becomes available all these teething troubles should have been (hopefully) ironed out.

Reply Score: 2

Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

You are missing the point. The "overheating" was caused by the fans not blowing properly. An updated computer does not overheat. It's a software bug. And it's fixed.

Trust me, there are many worse bugs in every modern OS than this one, which doesn't comprimise security or stability.

Reply Score: 2

junior Member since:
2005-07-07

Yes that firmware did help a bit, but I'm sure you'll agree that too much themal grease == Bad News

And that goes for any computer or consumer electronics device.

Btw, on page 3 you write this is a confirmed design defect, and now you say It's a software bug. Which is it?

I still say it's neither.

Edited 2006-06-22 16:03

Reply Score: 1

Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

Whatever, it's a nitpick, it's semantics. A software bug is a design defect, since Apple is the "ready out of the box" company.

Reply Score: 1

Simba Member since:
2005-10-08

> An updated computer does not overheat.

Yes, it does.

> It's a software bug.

No, it's not.

> And it's fixed.

No, it's not.

I have updated mine. And it still runs way too hot, even when not under very much load.

Reply Score: 3

Khoji Member since:
2005-08-17

I have updated mine. And it still runs way too hot, even when not under very much load.

That's pretty much what I would expect. If you open it up you will probably find gobs of thermal compound exuding out from between the three cooled chips and the heatsink and spilling onto the main board.

Last week I visited a (non-Apple) Mac dealer here in Cologne and the MacBook Pro they had on show was just sitting there doing nothing, with no programs other than the basic operating system running, and it was already WAY too hot. Uncomfortably hot to touch both below the keyboard and (even more so) on the underside.

I suspect that one of the reasons Apple may not see this problem as too serious may be because Intel specs the Core processors for somewhere in the region of 100°C. By the time the chips fail due to having been run continuously at temperatures well over 80°C the warranty will probably have expired -- hell, they may even actually survive for years at those temperatures.

Be that as it may, I still don't want a laptop/notebook computer that gets that hot. My 2GHz Pentium M (Dothan) notebook runs at around 40°C most of the time and never goes above 60°C even under permanent full load for extended periods and that's the way I like it -- but that's because I've reduced the processor voltages. (Intel specifies quite high voltages for the Dothan core to make sure that it's always stable, most individual processors can be run at significantly lower voltages and much cooler.)

But even under "normal" conditions anything above 50°C in normal operation and 70°C under extended full load is too much, it's just unpleasant, even if the chips can take it. Eliminating that kind of thing was one of the main reasons for creating mobile chips like the Pentium M in the first place, because they used less power and ran cooler. Now things seem to be swinging back towards "desktop" processors in mobile computers again, in the quest for more and more power...

Reply Score: 2

junior Member since:
2005-07-07

But how would a tech be able to tell if I took out my logic board? Correct, only if he were to take out the logic board. So if, say, I have a busted blower, wireless card, keyboard etc. there shouldn't be a problem getting it fixed.

Reply Score: 1

psiox Member since:
2005-10-06

Re-applying the thermal paste does NOT void your warranty, as many people have pointed out in the thread the process was originally documented in at SomethingAwful. Applecare still applies as long as you don't screw anything up with your big, grubby mitts. Do a clean enough job and you can't even tell it's been opened.


My one concern, though, is that the fans in my MBP don't seem to spin up very often in OSX, while under Linux they come on often enough to be unobtrusive yet cool it considerably better. Hopefully there'll be a BMC or other update to address this in the future.

Reply Score: 1

Conclusion
by Duffman on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 15:11 UTC
Duffman
Member since:
2005-11-23

As usual, Thom Holwerda is never happy.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Conclusion
by anonymousbrowser on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:21 UTC in reply to "Conclusion"
anonymousbrowser Member since:
2006-04-28

I'm pleased that he was able to give such an honest review, people pay an awful lot of money for their apple hardware and expect a certain level of quality, it's obvious that quality, not to mention value for money, is not a primary concern in the current generation of apple portables.

All too often we see mac fans being extremely defensive about the products, wake up and realise that the company obviously doesn't care as much about you as you do them.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Conclusion
by junior on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:34 UTC in reply to "RE: Conclusion"
junior Member since:
2005-07-07

All too often we see mac fans being extremely defensive about the products, wake up and realise that the company obviously doesn't care as much about you as you do them.

Yes, absolutely. And for that sole reason it it good to have choice. It is good that there are companies like, well, Microsoft and Dell to randomly name a few, that actually care more for their customers than they do for the shareholders.

It really is heartwarming when you think about it

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Conclusion
by qroon on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Conclusion"
qroon Member since:
2005-10-21

It's not about who's the lesser evil, it's about treating your customers and mac fans reactions whenever Apple/Mac is at fault.

By your logic, Murderer A is a better person than Murderer M and D because Murderer A killed fewer victims.

Edited 2006-06-22 17:15

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Conclusion
by dvhh on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Conclusion"
dvhh Member since:
2006-03-20

sure, after all murder A only have 2% of the victims where M & D have at least ten times more victims

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Conclusion
by qroon on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:29 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Conclusion"
qroon Member since:
2005-10-21

With respect to murdering, then nobody's better. They're all murderers. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Conclusion
by junior on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Conclusion"
junior Member since:
2005-07-07

No, that's your logic, dude.

Anyhow, I was only making a poor attempt at humor. Sorry you didn't like it.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Conclusion
by Duffman on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Conclusion"
Duffman Member since:
2005-11-23

"Microsoft and Dell to randomly name a few, that actually care more for their customers than they do for the shareholders. "

Is that a joke ?

Facts:

From the wikipedia :
"Apple does not currently pay dividends on its common stock."

Shareholders of Apple doesn't get any money for their shares.
Shareholders of Microsoft and DELL get money for their shares.

How can you decently say that Apple cares more about its shareholders than Microsoft and DELL ...

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Conclusion
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:26 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Conclusion"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

How can you decently say that Apple cares more about its shareholders than Microsoft and DELL ..

Sarcasm. I think he was joking around.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Conclusion
by junior on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:30 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Conclusion"
junior Member since:
2005-07-07

I was joking. I have noticed that people around here don't get my sarcasm, so it's probably me. Maybe I should quit doing that.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Conclusion
by Duffman on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 20:08 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Conclusion"
Duffman Member since:
2005-11-23

"I have noticed that people around here don't get my sarcasm"

It is just difficult to see a sarcasm when it is written. :-)

Btw I love sarcasm ^^

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Conclusion
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 14:19 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Conclusion"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Most folks wouldn't be able to recognize irony if painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Look at me, I'm the use of words expressing something other than their literal intention!"

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Conclusion
by aesiamun on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 14:55 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Conclusion"
aesiamun Member since:
2005-06-29

That's so hot...i'm picturing irony dancing naked and painted purple.

Wow.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Conclusion
by rockwell on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 15:41 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Conclusion"
rockwell Member since:
2005-09-13

No, you don't need to quit doing that. The basement-dwelling, no-social-life having, Penguinista Linux geeks that frequent these boards need to learn how to detect sarcasm.

(let's see how they do with that one.)

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Conclusion
by junior on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 20:17 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Conclusion"
junior Member since:
2005-07-07

Well, in Duff's defense, I don't think he's a Penglot.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Conclusion
by anonymousbrowser on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 00:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Conclusion"
anonymousbrowser Member since:
2006-04-28

You should know by now that sarcasm doesn't come across well in posts.

My point wasn't that they have the least regard for their customers but that they have enjoyed such a loyal userbase, and apple are so trendy thesedays that it's on the up again, that they don't feel the need to try so hard anymore. People always seem to view apple with a warm fuzzy glow, like they're not a company out to make money from their customers, the truth is that because they have fewer customers than many computer hardware companies they're actually out to screw more money per customer than anyone else. Of course a majority of oldschool mac users are happy with this arrangement, as long as the hardware is overpriced and therefore somewhat exclusive they feel happy using it, they'd be disgusted by the idea of macs as mainstream computers for mainsteam people, doing mainstream tasks, macs, and therefore their owners, have long been superior at being superior.

thinking about Apples old slogan of "think different" still makes me laugh...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Conclusion
by Duffman on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Conclusion"
Duffman Member since:
2005-11-23

I am not speaking about Apple's product but of Thom himself.

Each week we have an article from Thom speaking about what he hates.
Geez, can't we have *one time* an article about what he likes ...

Edited 2006-06-22 17:13

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Conclusion
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Conclusion"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Each week we have an article from Thom speaking about what he hates. Geez, can't we have *one time* an article about what he likes ...

Eh, well, it seems you did not read this article very well then, but instead, only focused on its conclusion. Because, in the article, I praise several aspects of the notebook-- just not enough to recommend you buy this laptop.

Other than that, my columns the past few weeks were especially about things I didn't like. So go figure. When that series is done, I'll promise to write about things I love, ok?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Conclusion
by Duffman on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:30 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Conclusion"
Duffman Member since:
2005-11-23

"It seems you did not read this article very well then"
I read it in the whole.

"When that series is done, I'll promise to write about things I love, ok?"
ok ;-)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Conclusion
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 14:12 UTC in reply to "Conclusion"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Indeed! Anyone who doesn't gush praise over Apple hardware must be impossible-to-satisfy. How reassuring that line of thought must be.

Thom, you broke the cardinal rule! Mac users are only allowed to criticize Macs when among other Mac users - you're not supposed to let the rest of the plebes know that Apple products have (gasp) faults!

Reply Score: 1

heating and power scheme
by amilcarodonte on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 15:30 UTC
amilcarodonte
Member since:
2006-02-07

I liked the review. I'm left with a couple of practical questions about the heating problem.

First, what happens with heating if you set the power scheme to reduced processor performance? If that'ss possible in a macintel?

The second question is to Adam. You reviewed the 12-in G4 powerbook when it came out. Great review, I bought one soon after and I stuck to it for these 3+ yrs. How would you compare the heating problem in the MBP with the 12-in G4? What about the keyboard? Considering the heat and the I'm going to get a new laptop through my job (cost is no issue), would you suggest I ask for a MBP or a macbook?

Thanks a lot for the review!
AC

Reply Score: 1

RE: heating and power scheme
by Adam S on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 15:42 UTC in reply to "heating and power scheme"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

The second question is to Adam. You reviewed the 12-in G4 powerbook when it came out.

That wasn't me. I've never used a 12" Powerbook. David reviewed one several years ago, though.

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2792

Reply Score: 1

Couple of things
by BryanFeeney on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 15:58 UTC
BryanFeeney
Member since:
2005-07-06

Mail.app hasn't used the mbox format since 10.4. It uses it's own custom format where each mail is stored in it's own file so that Spotlight can index them. This is a bit silly: firstly that Spotlight can't be configured to read databases (it's just another file-system, albeit mounted on a file-system rather than raw hardware), and that they'd use a custom format instead of a standard one like Maildir that would allow interoperability.

To judge by the to-and-fro, Thom didn't do a lot of research before commenting on the Macbook Pro (e.g. the keyboard back-light). That's not particularly impressive for someone co-writing a front-page article. Also he seems to be constantly mentioning Dell laptops in the first page, which, while reasonable, in its constancy seems to imply a bias (which may be entirely wrong, I'm just saying it lends itself to a negative interpreation).

There is a difference between a laptop and a notebook, and there always has been. A laptop computer that can be rested on ad-hoc surfaces (like a lap) and is thus small and sturdy (e.g. the 13" Macbook). A notebook is a computer that is portable, but ideally should be rested on a formal flat surface like a table-top, and the 15.4" Macbook Pro is an example of that.

Grammar: "i.e." means "that is". "e.g." means "for example". The statement "It's completely transparent, and i.e. Office:Mac loads" doesn't scan particularly well, and is a bit surprising for an editor from an English language site. The "Eats Shoots and Leaves" book is a good, enjoyable introduction to this sort of stuff.

The statement "The MBP sports decent build quality" is at odds with the statements "The MacBook Pro should've never passed the Q/A stage." and "my MacBook Pro suffers from battery failures of some sort;". Which is it?

I take issue with the comment "definitely not worth its hefty, hefty pricetag". I priced a Dell with comparable hardware and the difference was about €100, and the Dell didn't come with a Webcam. Bear in mind the Macbook Pro has a top-of-the-range CPU and a decent graphics card in the form of the X1600, with lots of wired and wireless connectivity. While I'm concerned by the stories about build quality, the price is an accurate reflection of the component quality and performance, and no €700 laptop will meet the same specs. It's not overpriced, but it may feature poor-quality design.

This is blog post is a pretty decent comparison of top-line notebooks: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000613.html

I'm concerned that you both complained about the heat issues, but Adam did not mention in the review that an official firmware upgrade fixes this (something he has noted in the comments). If the heat-issue can be fixed, and you know it can be fixed, it seems irresponsible not to note that it can be fixed within the body of the review.

Also the comment moaning about 32-bit chips and hard-drives is redundant: the only 64-bit laptop chip available now is the Turion, and it was incredibly new when the Macbook Pro was launched, and there simply aren't any bigger laptop hard-drives available right now for a reasonable price.

I would say that no-one should buy a Macbook Pro right now unless they absolutely have to: Merom should be out by the end of the Summer, is socket compatible, and I would therefore expect 64-bit Macbook Pros in the next three to four months.

Edited 2006-06-22 16:06

Reply Score: 5

Mail storage in single files
by zlynx on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:16 UTC in reply to "Couple of things"
zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

Mail.app may be silly for using a proprietary format instead of Maildir, but it is hardly silly to use a single file for each email.

The mbox format is an *old* format, designed for use back when hard drives were small and storing a 1K email would consume an entire 512K disk block. It is also designed to be a very simple format.

But as a format for a filesystem or database, mbox is awful. Using a format like Maildir or Mail.app's is much better and is a good compromise between easy text-format access and a full-up database.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Mail storage in single files
by BryanFeeney on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:29 UTC in reply to "Mail storage in single files"
BryanFeeney Member since:
2005-07-06

My comment wasn't about them moving away from mbox, I was just saying that

1) It was silly Spotlight couldn't index within standard databases, e.g. by using the Mac OS X vfs API to create an mbox file-system (much like Kat does in KDE)

2) It was silly to use a proprietary format when they felt compelled to split up the file when a standard format like Maildir would have helped both them and their users.

With regard to mbox, a lot of file-systems have trouble dealing with several thousand small files. mbox solved this by allowing you to bypass the main file-system entirely: it works a bit like a Database and with mmap and a separate index file you could get some decent performance. The reason the did it was clearly for Spotlight support. It was a rush job, just like the templates in iWeb (that use DIV for everything instead of H1, H2, P etc.) or the RSS in iPhoto (which is staggeringly non-compliant).

I'm thinking seriously of getting a Merom powered Macbook Pro, but I have to say the software isn't a huge draw: I could see myself using Camino, Adium and Thunderbird instead of Apple equivalents.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Mail storage in single files
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:24 UTC in reply to "Couple of things"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Thom didn't do a lot of research before commenting on the Macbook Pro (e.g. the keyboard back-light).

Huh? What did I do wrong? I was right: there is no way of setting it to always on.

Also he seems to be constantly mentioning Dell laptops in the first page, which, while reasonable, in its constancy seems to imply a bias

It's comparison material. Since when is that perceived as wrong?

There is a difference between a laptop and a notebook, and there always has been. A laptop computer that can be rested on ad-hoc surfaces (like a lap) and is thus small and sturdy (e.g. the 13" Macbook). A notebook is a computer that is portable, but ideally should be rested on a formal flat surface like a table-top, and the 15.4" Macbook Pro is an example of that.

Laptop, notebooks, it's semantics. It's a protable computer, and as such, should be used as one. I did not use it on my lap. I use it flat on my bed. But even on normal surfaces, as Adam pointed out, even the KEYBOARD gets very hot to the touch. So the note/lap argument is void anyway.

Grammer stuff

English is not my native language. It is only one of the three I speak, and as such, it will not be perfect. In any case, my English is better than probably most of the English speaking world's 2nd languages ;) .

I take issue with the comment "definitely not worth its hefty, hefty pricetag". I priced a Dell with comparable hardware and the difference was about €100, and the Dell didn't come with a Webcam.

The defects I encountered are NOT to be expected on a 2500E laptop. As simple as that.

The statement "The MBP sports decent build quality" is at odds with the statements "The MacBook Pro should've never passed the Q/A stage." and "my MacBook Pro suffers from battery failures of some sort;". Which is it?

It is not at odds. Build quality refers to how well-built the machine is, if it's sturdy, scratches easily, squeals or not, etc. In that respect, as I said in the review, the MBP does a fine job.

The Q/A stage note solely refers to the heat issue.

Reply Score: 1

BryanFeeney Member since:
2005-07-06

Mais même si je parle en Français, je sais comment on utilise « i.e. » et « e.g. ». Ce n’est pas dur, et si vous ne pouvez pas parler le bien Anglais, pour quoi avez-vous choisi de gérer OSNews.com?

Caithim a rá, chomh maith, go bhféidir liom scríobh i dtrí theanga, Béarla, Francíse, agus Gaeilge.

Such are the benefits of going to school in Ireland, and learning Irish and French. And then reading books about grammar ;-)

Edited 2006-06-22 16:38

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

If you want to take a review apart just because of a misuse of "i.e."... Go ahead.

Aber weiss doch dass es weiter nichts ändert. Het is en blijft een middelmatige laptop voor te veel geld ;) .

Reply Score: 1

BryanFeeney Member since:
2005-07-06

The crazy thing is that, despite never learning the Dutch language, I could actually understand that part. Always thought it was cool how much it resembled, and yet was different, from English.

The German bit had me completely lost though.

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Always thought it was cool how much it resembled, and yet was different, from English.

Dutch is actually very difficult to learn, as the rules that govern our grammar and spelling all have exceptions, but these exceptions themselves have exceptions, who in turn also have exceptions. It's really funny, not even newspapers know what's up anymore these days. They now use a different set of rules than the official body enstated (de TaalUnie).

The German part was easy. It said: "But bear in mind that it changes nothing."

As much as I enjoy talking languages (I study it at university), let's get back on topic.

Reply Score: 1

junior Member since:
2005-07-07

You're absolutely right, I have observed the same thing. English is relatively easy to learn for Dutch people (and vice versa I would guess). At least the grammar part. You still have to build up a vocabulary of course.

Reply Score: 1

LordChaos Member since:
2005-08-11

"Mais même si je parle en Français, je sais comment on utilise « i.e. » et « e.g. ». Ce n’est pas dur, et si vous ne pouvez pas parler le bien Anglais, pour quoi avez-vous choisi de gérer OSNews.com?"

By the way, pourquoi is written as one word...;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Mail storage in single files
by psiox on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Mail storage in single files"
psiox Member since:
2005-10-06

>>Grammer stuff

>>English is not my native language. It is only one of the three I speak, and as such, it will not be perfect. In any case, my English is better than probably most of the English speaking world's 2nd languages ;) .

Nice zing, but I think you meant to spell that 'grammar'. But I have to agree with my grandparent; if this site or you are ever to be taken more seriously than Dvorak's incessant muckraking, perhaps more emphasis should be placed on quality journalism.

Reply Score: 1

anonymousbrowser Member since:
2006-04-28

I don't know, maybe the 'grammer' misspelling was intentional, maybe you need to chill out and stop taking yourself so seriously.

Reply Score: 1

Personal opinions
by Tom K on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:04 UTC
Tom K
Member since:
2005-07-06

As usual, anyone who doesn't agree with the personal opinions of the reviewers can just deal with it, and present their own (if they have any).

I have a 15" 2.0 GHz MBP with a glossy screen, and the screen is just amazing. Viewing angles are great, and I have absolutely no problems with glare (I work in an office, along with windows through which some sunlight comes through).

Heat-wise, I have no problems. When the MBP is plugged in to power, and I'm doing something that constantly taxes the CPU at 20-30%, then it does get rather warm in certain areas underneath. When I'm on the battery, I can watch a movie on my bare lap (shorts, people) and I can barely feel it. Even now, having sat on my bed for 15 minutes, the underside is literally barely warmer than the bed sheets themselves. I've got a week 22 MBP, so maybe that's part of the solution. Oh, and the fans aren't running.

Oh yeah, what kind of pro audio people do you expect to really care about the quality of the built-in speakers for their work? You better have been joking when you complained about the speakers, and cited pro work as something that would be affected. Audio pros use $1500 monitors to do their work, not dinky laptop speakers. :-P

Reply Score: 5

Note for MacSupport
by Simba on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:07 UTC
Simba
Member since:
2005-10-08

Web Sites that try to hijack your back button so you can't leave their site and go back to the previous one you came from are EVIL! Ok?

Reply Score: 1

I'm missing the point
by Buck on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:25 UTC
Buck
Member since:
2005-06-29

So it's a chat between TH and AS, but there's nothing serious in it, absolutely. Basically one person says "I love it" and the other replies "Oh, but can't you see it sucks?" It just doesn't add anything meaningful and doesn't make a review. I can call my friend on the phone and have this review made live just for me instead of reading THIS.

Reply Score: 1

RE: I'm missing the point
by suryad on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 07:02 UTC in reply to "I'm missing the point"
suryad Member since:
2005-07-09

Kind of like those rather funny apple ads on tv...the two guys...one who is the mac and the other who is the boring windows pc.

Reply Score: 1

What if
by netpython on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:28 UTC
netpython
Member since:
2005-07-06

Would be nice if we could buy OSX separate and choose our own hardware for example a voodoo PC laptop:
http://www.voodoopc.com/whyvoodoo/galleria.aspx?galleryID=1&albumID...

Reply Score: 0

RE: What if
by shadow_x99 on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:33 UTC in reply to "What if"
shadow_x99 Member since:
2006-05-12

I agree it would be great, but it simply won't happen. I don't have to remind everyone that Apple is basically a Hardware company. They want to sell you hardware.

Now, there are a couple of hackers that possibly installed OS X on a custom box, but I do not know how, nor do I really care because I am done with 'hack-everything-i-see' period of my life.

Reply Score: 1

RE: What if
by Kroc on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 20:34 UTC in reply to "What if"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Frankly it'd be rubbish. No backlit keyboard, no sudden motion sensor, no ambient light sensor, no magnetic power adapter, not as thin and you'd have to deal with third party drivers.

If OS X were on normal laptops, I'd still buy a mactop

Reply Score: 1

Keyboard layout
by pxa270 on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:40 UTC
pxa270
Member since:
2006-01-08

For those who aren't aware of the differences in keyboards: European Macs all come with a keyboard that looks like this:
http://www.gwright.org.uk/images/cache/pictures/PowerBook/1024x768/...

The US keyboard layout, as most are aware, looks like this:
http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/5168.jpg
and I believe this is also what's sold in Canada, Australia and Asia (except Japan).

The differences are in the left Shift and the Enter key. Within Europe there is some variation in the labling of the keys, but the shapes and positions are all like the UK layout shown in the first link.
Apple calls the US keyboard the ANSI layout, and the European the ISO layout (there is also a separate Japanese layout).

Now in many European countries the standard keyboard does indeed have the "reverse L" shaped Enter, like on the Mac (though usually not so thin). But in the Netherlands, the prevailing standard keyboard is actually the ANSI layout, with the big horizontal Enter. The problem is, it's almost impossible to get a Mac with the ANSI keyboard in the Netherlands. I've asked three Apple Centre's and the official Apple Store, and they only offered a Dutch layout, and the "International English" layout, both with the reverse-L Enter. Which sucks for those of us who strongly prefer the US layout with the big horizontal Enter.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Keyboard layout
by stew on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 09:07 UTC in reply to "Keyboard layout"
stew Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, that is the key difference that made me go through all the trouble of buying my MacBook Pro in the U.S. instead of Germany. It's a lot of trouble indeed (including idiots at the customs who want to charge taxes on the delivery costs).

Reply Score: 1

nothing touched
by marcushe on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 16:47 UTC
marcushe
Member since:
2005-09-30

they didnt even mention the built-in webcam with one-click web conferencing (iChat) or the dvd burner and it's capabilities with iDVD.

they also apparently don't understand that iLife comes on these machines - try to get that on any other PC laptop.

they reviewed it as if it were a windows machine - they tried the e-mail and web browsing out, and called it a day.

Reply Score: 1

RE: nothing touched
by dvhh on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:09 UTC in reply to "nothing touched"
dvhh Member since:
2006-03-20

ship it with windows and you call it monopoly practices.

plus I think they were giving their review with their regular usage of this class of notebook.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: nothing touched
by Agent69 on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 20:44 UTC in reply to "RE: nothing touched"
Agent69 Member since:
2005-07-07

There is nothing illegal about monopolies, other than breaking the law to maintain them.

Reply Score: 1

spot on
by olicat on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 17:53 UTC
olicat
Member since:
2005-10-18

this is a fair review as far as thom's comments go. the macbook pro is a huge waste of money. my girlfriend is having mine as soon as i've saved enough to replace it with a sony vaio. i've got a few bits and pieces of apple hardware, but my experiences with this LAPtop have turned me sour against apple. i'll NEVER purchase a piece of their hardware again.

i had to pay for an independant inspection to be carried out on my machine(apple refused to fix it) for apple to fix things like the screen, mouse locking up etc - they replaced the screen with one with dead pixels, so it has to be returned AGAIN.

i'm very bitter about my experiences with this company, and thought i could expect better from them. their hardware and their support truely disgusts me.

Reply Score: 1

RE: spot on
by PlatformAgnostic on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 07:46 UTC in reply to "spot on"
PlatformAgnostic Member since:
2006-01-02

Don't get a VAIO! Their support is even spottier than apple's and as far as I've seen their computers are just not internally serviceable. If you want something that'll last forever get a ThinkPad and if you want something that you can get fixed easily, get a Dell.

Reply Score: 1

Heat is the killer
by alcibiades on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 19:21 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

After you get through all the things the reviewers like or dislike, which may be more or less personal, the thing that is a total showstopper is the one they agree on, the heat. They are both, in different continents, with different spec machines, reporting that they cannot leave their hands on the machine too long because they are confident that if they do, it will burn them.

This is a total showstopper. You cannot buy a portable machine which risks burning you if you leave your hands on it too long. What is anyone thinking of? This is just a total no brainer!

Reply Score: 3

RE: Heat is the killer
by signals on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 20:09 UTC in reply to "Heat is the killer"
signals Member since:
2005-07-08

I'd like to know where the hot spots are on the machine. On my Powerbook G4, there is a spot in the middle (left to right) on the hinge side where I suspect the CPU is that gets very hot when the system is running hard. I've always dealt with it by putting it on my lap so my knees are on either side of the hot spot and it's not been an issue.

Is the MBP's "hot spot" in the same place? If so, I think I can deal with the heat. (My company has an MBP on order for me, so I HOPE I can deal with the heat.)

I certainly hope the heat is not enough of an issue to cause premature failure, though...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Heat is the killer
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 21:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Heat is the killer"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I'd like to know where the hot spots are on the machine.

Well, err, actually, the machine is one, big hotspot. However, the area underneath the keyboard (in its entirity) is the worst.

Reply Score: 1

Hmm
by Finchwizard on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 22:46 UTC
Finchwizard
Member since:
2006-02-01

Thom, you seem to complain about everything Apple related, if you don't like them, stop buying their products and complaining about it.

I have a Macbook Pro 2.1GHz, 2GB RAM, 100GB 7200rpm drive.

The keyboard is fine, smaller than some keys, but I've never had a problem on it, different key sizes just need time to adjust to it.

Wireless has never been an issue, I updated over 500MB worth of updates over wireless just the other day, and it never once dropped out, looks like some other user error or misconfiguration.

Heat, well, it's warm, but I must say, I've had PC laptops from Asus have far far worse heat problems.
I have probably one of the newer type Macbook Pros and I can say they are not as hot as people say.

My PowerbookG4 was hotter.

Speakers and sound, I can definitely say these are one of the best speakers I've had in any of my laptops, make sure you have turned the sound up in the App and the OS is all I can say.

Again, I don't know what the anti-hate thing is with Apple on the OSNews site as of late.

Battery performance as well, I've have it on all day without needing a charge.

All in all, I haven't had one real thing wrong with my Macbook Pro yet, it's a fine piece of work.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Hmm
by LordChaos on Thu 22nd Jun 2006 23:26 UTC in reply to "Hmm"
LordChaos Member since:
2005-08-11

"Battery performance as well, I've have it on all day without needing a charge."

I agree with you on most points, but the above statement is nonsense. Even though battery life has improved compared to the Powerbook I have, you can't work all day with a MBP without a charge.

Reply Score: 1

Dude, your Dell is on fire!
by PowerMacX on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 00:31 UTC
PowerMacX
Member since:
2005-11-06

You mentioned the (very real) MacBooks Pro heat issues, while at the same time talking about how much you liked your Dell.

Well, don't look now:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/22/dude-your-dell-is-on-fire/

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32550

':-0

Reply Score: 1

fan speed utility?
by re_re on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 02:25 UTC
re_re
Member since:
2005-07-06

When I do intensive tasks my MBP sits around 85C which i find to be ridiculous, does anybody know if there are any software utilities that are available to change fan speed?

Reply Score: 1

I liked the review
by skingers6894 on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 02:31 UTC
skingers6894
Member since:
2005-08-10

Amusing review, I like the "odd couple" format.

The whiny nit-picking nature of the one character was balanced by the positive but not quite "fanboi" nature of the other guy.

Reply Score: 2

I get about
by Finchwizard on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 06:58 UTC
Finchwizard
Member since:
2006-02-01

I get about 6hrs or 7hrs without needing a charge, it's a reasonable time, that's with standard work, checking emails, typing documents etc, of course it's going to drop if you start doing some bigger Photoshop files, any type of editing with videos etc.

But for the most part, I can safely get away with 6hrs work.

What programs are you using to test heat? I checked one today and was 93F, which is rediculus, the other I tried said there was no sensors in the computer, so I'm wondering what app you used to see it at 85C

Reply Score: 1

RE: I get about
by junior on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 07:16 UTC in reply to "I get about"
junior Member since:
2005-07-07

I find it hard to believe that you get 6 hours on one charge. You must have one of the better batteries. I get 3.45 h maximum. We're talking about a macbookpro right?

To monitor temperature you can use increw.com's SpeedIt kernel extension or better yet, Bresink's Temperature Monitor, which gives you readings for the hard drive and for each core seperately.

Edited 2006-06-23 07:18

Reply Score: 1

Short review
by Dirge on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 08:03 UTC
Dirge
Member since:
2005-07-14

Considering two people collaberated on this review it is incredibly short. The only reason it reached four short pages is due to the amount of white space breaking up your dialoge. I am confounded that you receive a Mac Book Pro to review and neglect to post copious amounts of pictures.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Short review
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 09:03 UTC in reply to "Short review"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I am confounded that you receive a Mac Book Pro to review and neglect to post copious amounts of pictures.

Why would I? There's an infinite amount of pictures of the MBP on the web.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Short review
by Dirge on Sun 25th Jun 2006 23:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Short review"
Dirge Member since:
2005-07-14

There is also an infinite number of reviews of the MBP on the net. With that mentality why bother reviewing the machine at all.

If a company was gracious enough to provide me with a product I would go all out on a review.

Reply Score: 1

I was interested in this one...
by Darkelve on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 09:38 UTC
Darkelve
Member since:
2006-02-06

Well, I was interested in a MacBook Pro 17 inch. End price came down at about €2333!

For fun, I then compared what kind of comparable 'PC' desktop system I could get for that price... For a bit less than the same price, you can build something which blows this laptop right out of the water.

That's not a laptop of course, I realize that.

Okay, so it's an apple-to-oranges comparison perphaps (pardon the pun), but my point is that this product is *very* expensive laptop... or at least, 'feels' expensive.

I'm just kind of 'fazed' I guess at how expensive (I think) these things actually are... I'd love to have one, but... it costs just TOO much ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: I was interested in this one...
by mungas on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 12:42 UTC in reply to "I was interested in this one..."
mungas Member since:
2006-05-08

Yes I agree. If you don't need a portable computer, a desktop would be a less expensive choice.

I think a "cheap" GMA950 portable plus a home built desktop for 3D games complement each other nicely.

Reply Score: 1

Yep
by Finchwizard on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 11:19 UTC
Finchwizard
Member since:
2006-02-01

Macbook Pro, 2.1GHz, 100GB 7200rpm, 2GB RAM, 15"

Thing lasts for ages, it's really surprising, so I must have a good battery, because my Powerbook G4 used to last about 3.5-4hrs

Reply Score: 1

RE: Yep
by suryad on Sat 24th Jun 2006 15:06 UTC in reply to "Yep"
suryad Member since:
2005-07-09

Nice setup. Define "ages".

Reply Score: 1

Nice review format
by zerohalo on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 16:31 UTC
zerohalo
Member since:
2005-07-26

I enjoyed the format of the review. I think the idea of having two people comment on the same issues is insightful and provides more perspectives and experiences than a single reviewer (even one who is trying to argue both sides). I wish more reviews were like this. Thanks, Thom and Adam.

A bit of constructive criticsm, if I may: Thom, don't feel like you have to respond to or defend every criticism of your piece. In my opinion, you risk looking unprofessional if you do. Editors and writers have to grow thick skin; comes with the territory.

Reply Score: 1

Nice work guys
by danwarne on Fri 23rd Jun 2006 23:53 UTC
danwarne
Member since:
2005-09-04

I enjoyed OSNews' review... nice idea, having two geeks bouncing off each other.

FWIW, I'm about to update my PowerBook with a MacBook/MacBook Pro. I've been very torn between the two models. I love the form factor and user-serviceable hard drive of the MacBook. But the underpowered graphics chip is a deal breaker because it won't be able to run Vista except in basic graphics mode, and I want to be sure I can use my new MacBook/Pro at work as a PC.

(Main reason I'm upgrading is because I can effectively get 'two PCs for the price of one', circumventing my inability to get an upgraded desktop PC at work.)

Oh, and I'm told Firefox for Intel OS X flies, which is a seductive possibility. It's a bit sluggish on PPC.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Nice work guys
by suryad on Sat 24th Jun 2006 15:09 UTC in reply to "Nice work guys"
suryad Member since:
2005-07-09

Yeah Apple always lags in the graphics department. And whats more for fear of heat they have downclocked the gpu from stock! So bye bye graphics performance!

Reply Score: 1

Disappointed, and waiting
by BWhaler on Sat 24th Jun 2006 01:12 UTC
BWhaler
Member since:
2005-07-06

As a Mac guy who has bought every revision of the 17" PowerBook, and I am glad I had the patience to wait out this round.

I defend Apple a lot, some times for sins they should not of committed, but I think the new laptops are simply inexcusably bad.

Apple had to have known these computers had serious issues. If Apple did not, there would of been massive firings from the QA or design groups. No, Apple knew.

I hope this is not a trend and Apple learned their lesson.

But more importantly, I hope the next revision fixes the heat, airport, build, battery problems.

And for the love of god, get the charger down to sub-75 watts. People who buy $3,000 laptops do a lot of international travel. There is a reason why there are no 85 watt chargers.

Sadly, Apple either treated their customers like suckers or is falling apart on the quality front.

I hope the next version proves these quality issues were not a systemic trend of the future.

Reply Score: 1

aquariusyem
Member since:
2006-06-24

I read the review and comments and I am still confused about the new MacBook. I intend to buy a new Mac notebook very soon, but first let me say that I write from Brazil which means that I have to jump of the opportunity of friends coming down from the USA and buying the computer for me, because here in Brazil prices are about the double than in the US...


1) HEAT
I read:
" I'm concerned that you both complained about the heat issues, but Adam did not mention in the review that an official firmware upgrade fixes this "

What is a firmware upgrade and how can I do one if I buy the notebook in USA and uses it here in Brazil???

2) HEAT - bis
In 4 years in Brazil I "killed" almost 3 Mac laptops... Ok, you can blame it on the salt & humidity in the air (living near the sea) but I guess on the heat too. Heat is a big concern for me, not that I worry that much about burning my fingers but about the heat killing the machine! Does overheating really shorten the lifespan of a Mac laptop?


3) MERON
Does anyone know when it MacBook with Meron will be released??? Any date?

4) HEAT & VOLTAGE
"My friends lower the voltage on their MacBooks. From 1.4 V to 1.0. "

How do you do that?

Reply Score: 1

mungas Member since:
2006-05-08

"4) HEAT & VOLTAGE
"My friends lower the voltage on their MacBooks. From 1.4 V to 1.0. "

How do you do that?"

http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmclock.shtml

Reply Score: 1