Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 7th Jul 2006 13:13 UTC, submitted by anonymous
Hardware, Embedded Systems "Recently I had a chance to spend some time with the second version of the Das Keyboard. While this product is still plain black like its predecessor, a number of other changes were made in order to get it more in line with what consumers are looking for from an elite keyboard. The Das Keyboard is designed for power users who have the layout of a traditional keyboard memorized and interested in doing two things- increasing their typing speed and impressing their coworkers."
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what i'd really like
by Anonymous. on Fri 7th Jul 2006 13:27 UTC
Anonymous.
Member since:
2005-12-04

is a good keyboard that isn't completely blank... anyone know where i could find one?

Reply Score: 1

RE: what i'd really like
by agentj on Fri 7th Jul 2006 13:32 UTC in reply to "what i'd really like"
agentj Member since:
2005-08-19

I prefer laptop-like keyboards. For example you can try Logitech diNovo (http://img.ktr.pl/k/kllogdnovolm/sb.jpg) or many others flat keyboards.

Reply Score: 2

RE: what i'd really like
by mdoverkil on Fri 7th Jul 2006 14:28 UTC in reply to "what i'd really like"
mdoverkil Member since:
2005-09-30

I really like this keyboard myself. It's simple and dirt cheap. I've been using it for quite some time now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823107128

I personally hate those really busy keyboards (those expensive Microsoft ones for example)with way to many multimedia buttons. Does anyone actually adjust their volume with the keyboard?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: what i'd really like
by blixel on Fri 7th Jul 2006 19:44 UTC in reply to "RE: what i'd really like"
blixel Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't care for an abundance of multimedia buttons either. But I do like having a physical button for muting my audio right here on my keyboard. For example, when I get a phone call, it's very convenient to just tap the mute key ... and then tap it again to resume the volume at the exact level it was previously at.

I'd like a plain keyboard like the one you provided a link for .. but with maybe 2 or 3 extra buttons at the top that I could map to any function I wanted.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: what i'd really like
by mmebane on Sat 8th Jul 2006 00:51 UTC in reply to "RE: what i'd really like"
mmebane Member since:
2005-07-06

"Does anyone actually adjust their volume with the keyboard?"

I was quite sceptical myself when I got my laptop last year, but I quickly grew attached to them. Now, when I'm at my desktop, I find myself reaching for the front of the keyboard to control Foobar 2000.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: what i'd really like
by Bastian on Sat 8th Jul 2006 13:10 UTC in reply to "RE: what i'd really like"
Bastian Member since:
2005-07-25

Every Mac user I know adjusts their volume with the keyboard.

Granted, the Mac keyboard does it right - the controls are down, up, and mute. And they're reclaimed F-keys so they're in easy reach and my muscle memory already knows where they are. I've also been handed nasty rubber eraserhead-pustule-things that were tacked on as an afterthought on a keyboard that came with a Dell, and on that I ignore the volume buttons. They're not exciting enough to warrant installing drivers to make them work.

Reply Score: 1

RE: what i'd really like
by lopisaur on Fri 7th Jul 2006 16:17 UTC in reply to "what i'd really like"
lopisaur Member since:
2006-02-27

Try and find and old IBM or Siemens Nixdorf keyboard. As for newer ones, go with Cherry's Professional line.

Reply Score: 1

RE: what i'd really like
by pornflakes on Fri 7th Jul 2006 18:04 UTC in reply to "what i'd really like"
pornflakes Member since:
2005-10-18

As some others already suggested.
Model M successor. Optional even with Windows keys and usb.

http://pckeyboard.com

Reply Score: 1

RE: what i'd really like
by Beliyaal on Fri 7th Jul 2006 18:12 UTC in reply to "what i'd really like"
Beliyaal Member since:
2006-07-07

I have been through a couple of generations of Microsoft Ergonomic keyboards. After having learned to type on my PowerBook though I realized that this was the keyboard that I was typing most effectively on. So I bought any flat keyboards I could find (I found five different layouts). The one that I stuck on was this one:

http://www.ione.com.tw/2005/products/kb/NEW/alumin/sc-n1am.htm

It has some of the clicking feel of an old IBM keyboard while retaining the low profile keys.

Reply Score: 1

RE: what i'd really like
by Clinton on Fri 7th Jul 2006 22:23 UTC in reply to "what i'd really like"
Clinton Member since:
2005-07-05

What I'd really like is this keyboard with a hardwired dvorak layout (or any keyboard really, I don't care. I just want it hardwired for dvorak).

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: what i'd really like
by axel on Fri 7th Jul 2006 22:57 UTC in reply to "RE: what i'd really like"
axel Member since:
2006-02-04

there's no such thing as "hardwired for dovark" you key board isn't telling your OS "A" "B" its telling it "KEY 57".. you OS is what decides which key does what

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: what i'd really like
by Ronald Vos on Sat 8th Jul 2006 00:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: what i'd really like"
Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

you OS is what decides which key does what

Which, interestingly, means Das Keyboard is also Dvorak.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: what i'd really like
by daktaklakpak on Sun 9th Jul 2006 08:26 UTC in reply to "RE: what i'd really like"
daktaklakpak Member since:
2006-07-09

You can get hardwired dvorak keyboards from http://www.typematrix.com/dvorak/

I have a plane 2020 and 2030 and they are excellent. Espically at work were I may not be able to switch layouts via software.

Edited 2006-07-09 08:27

Reply Score: 1

RE: what i'd really like
by Khoji on Sat 8th Jul 2006 05:55 UTC in reply to "what i'd really like"
Khoji Member since:
2005-08-17

is a good keyboard that isn't completely blank... anyone know where i could find one?

Go to Unicomp at http://www.pckeyboard.com/ They are the only company that still uses the *original* buckling-spring mechanical keys used in the original IBM keyboards, and they also sell spares for IBM keyboards. They now make the keyboards with USB as well as standard PS2 and a wide variety of layouts, including international.

I had been pining for my old IBM keyboard for years and my Unicomp keyboard is the real thing. I've been back in typing heaven ever since I bought it. It's probably not for people working in open-plan offices because it does also have the original "clackety-clack", but that's one of the things I love about it. And the feel while typing is second to none, it's simply perfect. I have it connected to Windows, Linux and Mac computers via a KVM switch and it works perfectly on all of them.

Reply Score: 1

re: what I'd really like
by corrosive23 on Fri 7th Jul 2006 13:31 UTC
corrosive23
Member since:
2005-07-11

IBM Model M.

Reply Score: 5

RE: re: what I'd really like
by Bending Unit on Fri 7th Jul 2006 14:47 UTC in reply to "re: what I'd really like"
Bending Unit Member since:
2005-07-06

Highly overrated I think. My two Keytronic keyboards are superior in any way. That certain model is the best I've tried yet.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: re: what I'd really like
by Dekkard on Fri 7th Jul 2006 23:37 UTC in reply to "re: what I'd really like"
Dekkard Member since:
2006-01-07

no..not over rated.. simply the best. A REAL f--king Keyboard. keep those membrane switches.. if you like them and want to pay $60 us for one.. personally.. Ill stick with my model M. As a bonus I can use it to bludgeon anyone to death who threatens me while I'm at the computer.

Reply Score: 1

Why did "good old" keyboards die?
by Ford Prefect on Fri 7th Jul 2006 13:40 UTC
Ford Prefect
Member since:
2006-01-16

Here at home, I have an old "Triumph-Adler" branded keyboard, manifactured in Nuremberg, Germany, 1986. It's the nicest keyboard I've used so far.

You can detect a good keyboard by how many times you make typos and have to correct them. With this keyboard, I always hit the key I want to, easily. With others, like the sun keyboards, which have smoother keys, its quite not as good.


I ask myself, why most keyboards used to day cannot compete with one which is 20 years old, most of these in use!

Reply Score: 2

fye. Member since:
2005-08-23

You know, probably the main reason why you rarely make typos using this old keyboard is that you are simply used to it the most. ;-)

Reply Score: 1

Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

You're right on that in general.

But actually, I work most of my times at university with Sun keyboard models, so I am used to them much more than to my TRIUMPH-ADLER. Still, after some minutes of typing, using my own keyboard gives me a much better feeling than the Sun ones, and leads to less typos, too.

The keys just have a much better grip so it's not as easy to reach the wrong one next to the one you want to press.. Also, it's much better distinguished wether a key is actually pressed, or not. With this keyboard, a keystroke never gets missed, with the more soften Sun ones, this happens regularly.

Edited 2006-07-07 15:42

Reply Score: 1

henrikmk Member since:
2005-07-10

Well, it sometimes is that, but having tried a number of different keyboards with different kinds of key shapes, I can say that it's much easier to make a typo if the keys are too close to each other.
This means that the slope of the edge of the key is too steep, allowing the flat surface between the keys to become closer than about 6-7 mm. If that happens, the number of typos just skyrocket for me. The amount of times that a finger gets to touch an adjacent key just grows exponentially and this results in either both keys being pressed or none of them gets pressed properly.

I'm using an ugly Dell keyboard right now, and while it's noisy and has a really cheap looking design, I don't make that many typos on it in general, because of this 6-7 mm gap, while my white bluetooth Apple keyboard has a 4-5 mm gap.

It's really the shape of the key, I think is important. While the Apple keyboard may be pretty to look at (when it's new, but this is a different matter), I am much less productive with it.

Alternatively, laptop keyboards are what I prefer, because of the very short key travel. This increases responsiveness and the time needed to press a key without error. This is where I can type the fastest.

The gap problem here is different: The size of the key itself matters more, because there is only a very small gap. Therefore it becomes very difficult for me to type on small laptop keyboards, where larger keyboards are fine.

Reply Score: 1

ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

I use a cheap Dell PS2 keyboard. It survived most FPS and is now surviving WoW. Inexpensive and good quality.

Reply Score: 1

chiwaw Member since:
2006-02-05

"why most keyboards used to day cannot compete with one which is 20 years old"

Simply because it's not. Your brain is just wired to this specific keyboard by habit. My brain is wired perfectly to my Memorex keyboard, which is like 2-3 years old. If I type on your keyboard, I'm sure to generate a tons of typo.

Edited 2006-07-08 05:32

Reply Score: 1

ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

No, there's definitely been a huge change in the last 20-25 years of keyboards. Keyboards used to be an area of a lot of innovation, but the rubber plunger method pretty much completely killed that.

And it's not a horrible thing, it's:
1.) Cheap.
2.) Water resistant.
3.) Not awful..
4.) Quiet.

However, it also has no resistance after a certain point, so you tend to pound the keys against the plastic.
Also, rubber ages, and these keyboards die especially fast in lab environments (I'm not sure why, because I've used them more at home than most lab keyboards get and mine have lasted better). There's just something about lab environments that ruins these keyboards in short order. Of course, they never totally break, the key feel just becomes painful (literally, it hurts your fingers to type).

There is one thing I've seen as far as new keyboard technology, that's the "X" design by Benq. I have one, and it's nice, but unfortunately the plastic in the keys has worn smooth which leads to sticky fingers.

You can still buy a nice old-school IBM keyboard from unicomp, pckeyboard.com I think. This is my favorite keyboard yet.

And there are a few good rubber plunger keyboards. Most of the logitech ones are fairly nice. And memorex doesn't make a bad one either. But what ships with Dell's and the like is total crap.

It's probably not so much that the keyboard innovation dissappeared but that the market has been saturated with people who don't care. So, you don't here about the cool keyboards so much.

And yes, you have to get used to a keyboard, but that takes about 8 minutes.

Reply Score: 1

Do It Yourself!
by iangibson on Fri 7th Jul 2006 14:13 UTC
iangibson
Member since:
2005-09-25

Wow - that's quite a long review. Why didn't they just say "it's a keyboard with blank keys"?

Alternatively, you can make your own blank keyboard for a lot less money by simply buying the model you like (in my case, a cheap Logitech) and using solvent to erase the characters of your choice (I just took the letters off, but you can do the full monty if you like).

P.S. Why do they list the system requirements as 'Windows, Linux, or Mac OS X' - I'm sure it'd work on any OS with a USB port?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: what i'd really like
by Anonymous. on Fri 7th Jul 2006 14:22 UTC
Anonymous.
Member since:
2005-12-04

Logitech diNovo
wow, that's A LOT of wasted space. and it probably has those quiet, mushy keys that i hate so much.

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html is more what i was thinking of (thanks corrosive23 for pointing me in the right direction)... sort of expensive, but i doubt i'm going to find anything decent for much less...

i could probably "borrow" one of the model m keyboards from the storage room at work (the secretaries don't like them, can you believe that?), but my laptop doesn't have a ps/2 port and i'd rather not have to use one of those ps/2/usb adapters.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: what i'd really like
by Shane on Sat 8th Jul 2006 05:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: what i'd really like"
Shane Member since:
2005-07-06

The Logitech diNovo actually has pretty firm keys for a low profile, laptop-style keyboard, as does the Macally Ice Key that I use with my mac. These keyboards are pretty fragile though, since they use scissor keys.

Reply Score: 1

Powerbook
by MikeGA on Fri 7th Jul 2006 14:56 UTC
MikeGA
Member since:
2005-07-22

To be perfectly honest out of all the keyboards I've ever used, I prefer my Powerbooks. Strange though, because at first I thought I'd never get used to a laptop keyboard.

The trouble with the Powerbook keyboard though is that it doesn't come any larger than the one used on the 12" model. Surely people with a larger laptop want to have a number pad?!?

Reply Score: 1

True
by MattPie on Fri 7th Jul 2006 15:41 UTC
MattPie
Member since:
2006-04-18

There is one true keyboard and IBM is its prophet. Glory to the buckling-spring keyboard.

Which, BTW, could be converted to labeless by popping the keycaps off.

Reply Score: 2

RE: True
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 7th Jul 2006 21:01 UTC in reply to "True"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

There is one true keyboard and IBM is its prophet. Glory to the buckling-spring keyboard.

Which, BTW, could be converted to labeless by popping the keycaps off.


Yup, I have one. One that came with a IBM ps/2. Another cool rarity about it is that is a true Dutch layout. Many Dutch people would not be able to type on it as a lot of keys are juggled around from the now-default US-Int we use.

It's a really good keyboard.

Reply Score: 1

Couple other choices
by alcibiades on Fri 7th Jul 2006 16:25 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

Couple other choices might be:

The old Apple Extended Keyboard II with a griffin imate.

The Happy Hacking Keyboard, coil spring version.

The Matias Tactile Pro (supposed to duplicate the Apple, but people differ about whether it really does).

Its important, if you are advising professional writers. At the very low end, people seem to quite like the Logitech OEMs, and they are very cheap. The first is the only one I've used personally, but its nice and is probably the cheapest way to get a quality mechanical keyboard

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: what i'd really like
by boudewijn on Fri 7th Jul 2006 17:50 UTC
boudewijn
Member since:
2006-03-05

ps2 to usb adapters do work -- I use one at work to keep using my wonderful, wonderful, lovely, rsi-healing IBM keyboard. The big problem is that the shift state isn't kept consistently. That means that selecting a stretch of text using shift-pgup/pgdn isn't reliable. But it's a small sacrifice, given the advantages of using a real keyboard. Nick as many of them as you can, so you've got enough to last you until your death, that's my advice.

Reply Score: 1

personal fav
by Zedicus on Fri 7th Jul 2006 19:30 UTC
Zedicus
Member since:
2005-12-05

the happy hacking series. they make versions with clicky keys, as well as blank versions. USB and PS/2 ready as well as others. heres the one i use. Lite-2 version.

http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/en/hhkeyboard/images/200B.jpg

Reply Score: 1

RE: personal fav
by transputer_guy on Fri 7th Jul 2006 20:45 UTC in reply to "personal fav"
transputer_guy Member since:
2005-07-08

Thats a beautifull KB by minimalist measures, it looks a bit on the thick side (1.5in) for its tiny area. The price is a bit on the high side too for $60 or so.

I use the much thinner mini KBs that are only slightly larger than that with just the extra unused Fn and Pg keys. I like to use them for travel, pack it in case with mobo, drive and minimum extras and all set to move office other side of world.

In Taiwans computer malls like Nova, they specialize the stores into boutiques for KB/Mouse stuff, DIMM stuff, Mobos+cpus, and monitors with little overlap. You really can get a lot of choice from specialist walk in KB stores. Here in USA, compusa and the others seem to pay zero attention to KBs, just flog the bigger more buttons junk even give em away really. I have never seen anything in the stores like these minis or HH models, I suppose Apple has theirs.

Reply Score: 1

Old Black NeXT Keyboard
by tyrione on Fri 7th Jul 2006 19:46 UTC
tyrione
Member since:
2005-11-21

The touch is better than the new Apple Keyboards. If Steve could give that one a second shot I'd be happy. My Apple Keyboard tends to stick on the lower areas, like the Control keys.

Reply Score: 1

Fav...
by Kancept on Fri 7th Jul 2006 20:37 UTC
Kancept
Member since:
2006-01-09

My favorite keyboard is wy Fingerworks Touchstream. No mechaics, no noise, and awesome for getting rid of rsi. They aren't made anymore, but try one if you know someone with one. Good luck buying one, too if you find it.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Fav...
by mdaniel on Sun 9th Jul 2006 13:05 UTC in reply to "Fav..."
mdaniel Member since:
2006-04-15

> wy Fingerworks Touchstream. No mechaics,

Yup, I have one, too and mine is in Dvorak, evidently like yours judging from the "fat finger" in "my".

I posted, not at all to snicker at your typeos, but to make a subtle point about the Touchstream. The learning curve for me had more to do with key accuracy and knowing when a key was recognized than with anything else. I had a terrible time for the first 2 weeks with fat fingering and being overly sensitive to the surface (thinking a key was registered when it was not).

It requires that one be pretty diligent about reading as one types and/or proofing emails before they go out.

I absolutely agree that the Touchstream is a great keyboard. I believe not having to take your fingers off the keyboard to use the mouse and all the really cool "hand macros" are worth the money.

Reply Score: 1

Heh
by Buck on Fri 7th Jul 2006 20:39 UTC
Buck
Member since:
2005-06-29

Yeah right, this is just what I need to punish my office workers when they misbehave and fail to adhere to IT standard!

Reply Score: 2

Ergo
by jayson.knight on Fri 7th Jul 2006 23:46 UTC
jayson.knight
Member since:
2005-07-06

I wish they'd release this keyboard in an ergo form factor.

Reply Score: 1

IBM-M Keyboards
by porcel on Sat 8th Jul 2006 01:36 UTC
porcel
Member since:
2006-01-28

It seems that a few of you are interested in one of the classic IBM keyboards. These are no longer made and were the best keyboards ever made.

If anybody is interested in an original IBM-M keyboard, I'll give mine away for a hundred bucks, plus shipping to wherever you are.

Send me an email to: myusername on osnews at gmail dot com

I am a regular, so I hope this isn't misconstrued as spam.

Edited 2006-07-08 01:44

Reply Score: 1

Optimus
by Morin on Sat 8th Jul 2006 12:02 UTC
Morin
Member since:
2005-12-31

Anyone remember this keyboard? http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/

It's a similar idea, taken to the extreme: Each key has a mini-display on it, so you can change the labelling. I hope it's not a fake, as I cannot imagine that anyone could build such a thing with a reasonable amount of money.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Optimus
by transputer_guy on Sat 8th Jul 2006 20:22 UTC in reply to "Optimus"
transputer_guy Member since:
2005-07-08

Looks like Frog design studio sort of thing.

I would think such a product highly unlikely, perhaps OLEDs or a scanning Fibre Optical trick might do it. If it could be built, it might be found on the GoogleJet.

Reply Score: 1

"Why"
by aliquis on Sun 9th Jul 2006 23:29 UTC
aliquis
Member since:
2005-07-23

This keyboard is just lame, you pay extra to pretend you are leet?

For me there exist two choices of keyboard, please tell me the better alternative:

1) Type M IBM similair from http://pckeyboard.com/
2) An ergonomic keyboard, probably Microsoft Ergonomic 4000.

Also does anyone know why ALL my Keytronic KT2000 keyboard fails and how to fix them? They often lack a key or more which never works, m on one, shift on another, and so on, I've opened them up and put them together again but that didn't helped, what are killing the plastic sheets or whatever?

Reply Score: 1

I like that one:
by deb2006 on Mon 10th Jul 2006 05:30 UTC
deb2006
Member since:
2006-06-26

http://www.tweakers4u.de/image.php?pic=05/157/3_g.jpg

The best so far. It's a little bit smaller than an ordinary keyboard but it makes typing very fast that way. It has a very, very good finish and I would recommend it to everyone.

Reply Score: 1

re: what i'd really like
by Zedicus on Mon 10th Jul 2006 16:20 UTC
Zedicus
Member since:
2005-12-05

happy hacker keyboards hav a couple of function keys and dipswitches to map some keys, PLUS theyre are 2 extra keys that could be mapped to whatever, though they arent at the top. also i dispise ergonomic keyboards, talk about a pain in the elbow. and i dont think ive EVER touched the numberpad or anything to the right of enter on standard keyboards. theres peeple that actually LIKE to use thouse old ibm clicky pieces of crap? we just threw away about 300 of them a month ago... then theres the tons of configurations u can get happy hacker boards in, colors, blank keys, yes even clicky keys....

Reply Score: 1