Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 29th Jul 2006 20:47 UTC
Opera Software Opera Software is making plans to steal market share from Microsoft. Though a launch date for Opera 10 hasn't yet been set, Opera is hoping the updated application will lure users away from Microsoft's Internet Explorer 7 by building on Opera 9's use of small Web applications called widgets.
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Damn
by DevL on Sat 29th Jul 2006 21:53 UTC
DevL
Member since:
2005-07-06

If Opera is aiming to beat IE7 with Opera 10 than we won't see the next version of Opera for several years knowing Microsofts release skills.

P.S. The above is of course a joke as we'll probably see Opera 10 before IE 7 anyway.

P.P.S. The above is also a joke, but it wouldn't surprise me the least if turned out to be the case.

Reply Score: 2

Ok, this is the news:
by aliquis on Sat 29th Jul 2006 22:02 UTC
aliquis
Member since:
2005-07-23

I'm one of their current users, and the first thing I've done with all my installations is to turn the widgets off.

Also doesn't Vista have it's own system for those and gnome/kde aswell? Why would anyone need it in the browser? To have even more? I'm not intrested.

Edited 2006-07-29 22:03

Reply Score: 5

Beating IE7
by Dave_K on Sat 29th Jul 2006 22:08 UTC
Dave_K
Member since:
2005-11-16

Opera developers don't need to rush Opera 10 to beat IE7, Opera 9 does a good enough job of doing that already.

I'm not sure about the emphasis on widgets. They can be useful, but I don't see them as a killer feature that's likely to get many people to switch browser. I hope Opera don't neglect the core browser functionality to focus on widgets.

Reply Score: 4

Meh
by sappyvcv on Sat 29th Jul 2006 22:55 UTC
sappyvcv
Member since:
2005-07-06

If widgets is their focus, I'm afraid they won't be taking much IE share anytime soon, unfortunately.

Reply Score: 4

Missing "feature"
by PowerMacX on Sun 30th Jul 2006 00:21 UTC
PowerMacX
Member since:
2005-11-06

Give me an option to put the tabs below the address bar readily accessible in the preferences, and I may start using it more often (that is, other than to test compatibility for web sites I develop). Also, I really feel that the "Start Bar" should be off by default; too much clutter doesn't cause a good first impression.

Finally, I barely use the Dashboard in Mac OS X as it is. Having even more widgets -tied to a browser to boot- is definitely not something I'm looking forward to in Opera 10.

edit: fixed bold tag

Edited 2006-07-30 00:23

Reply Score: 2

RE: Missing "feature"
by sappyvcv on Sun 30th Jul 2006 00:56 UTC in reply to "Missing "feature""
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

You can put the tabs below the address bar.

The start bar is awesome though, more people should use it. Not in it's default state though. Add your most used bookmarks to it directly.

Reply Score: 2

Grrrr .....
by WorknMan on Sun 30th Jul 2006 00:44 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

The company also will develop more widgets--HTML and JavaScript Web applications that run outside the browser. Opera is aiming for a day when people needn't use a full desktop operating system, instead using a browser and Web applications for most tasks.

Can somebody please dispense of the whole widget idea? I mean, how many goddamn weather applets and stock tickers does a person need? And if the 'web apps' aren't as functional and as fast as my native apps, forget it. Ain't gonna happen. Hasn't somebody already tried this crap before?

And, oh yeah ... why doesn't Opera start by making version 9 stable? I heard the final release has several stability issues.

Edited 2006-07-30 00:45

Reply Score: 4

RE: Grrrr .....
by Adurbe on Sun 30th Jul 2006 01:36 UTC in reply to "Grrrr ....."
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

remember ms crushed netscape because it could 'replace' windows.
think of a BASIC linux distro embedded on a device that runs opera 10

office apps - MS Office live, google speadsheet as widgets
email client - gmail widget
instant message - msn, aim yada yada widgets

most of what, on a modern day PC, is 'NEEDED' can be accomplished online now. The only limiter is bandwidth.

imagine the requriement for this pc? do you even need a hard disk for example?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Grrrr .....
by Jedd on Sun 30th Jul 2006 02:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Grrrr ....."
Jedd Member since:
2005-07-06

w00t! Right on man! I wholeheartedly agree. Fscking widgets are stupid imho, the whole idea smells like a pile of month old meat rotting in the sun.

/can't stand widgets

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Grrrr .....
by WorknMan on Sun 30th Jul 2006 03:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Grrrr ....."
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

most of what, on a modern day PC, is 'NEEDED' can be accomplished online now. The only limiter is bandwidth.


Curious if you could (or if you would want to) do the following online:

1. Watch/burn DVDs
2. Play the latest 3D games
3. Create/edit audio and/or video
4. Manage files using something with a lot more functionality than Windows Explorer
5. Could we get Trillian or Gaim to work on this platform?

And well, there are numerous other things. For example, I have a piece of software that I use to patch (legal) game roms for play on my Nintendo DS Supercard. I could just see myself doing that on an embedded device running Opera 10.

It seems to me that this whole 'widget' thing is just a solution looking for a problem. In a few years, Oragami (sp) type devices will be powerfull enough to run full-blown operating systems with battery life that doesn't suck. Not that the whole widge/web-based platform is a bad idea, as it definitely has its uses. But one of those uses is not to replace desktops, unless your needs are very limited, in which case you could probably get by right now with a PDA/Smartphone.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Grrrr .....
by Adurbe on Mon 31st Jul 2006 00:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Grrrr ....."
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

i was thinking a cheap slim client conditions not really home use. But ill take the bait and reply

1. Watch/burn DVDs
streaming an avi. I can do that now within my local network, why not online via a widget frontend?

2. Play the latest 3D games
server farms such as sun's thing recently where u rent cpu time.
under current models this might not be viable but if it cost a nominal amount, why not? you pay for WoW. why not have them do more of the number crunching on your behalf?

3. Create/edit audio and/or video
def server farms. Just write the gui in java.

4. Manage files using something with a lot more functionality than Windows Explorer
Ive written an ftp client in java, you could move, make folders, yada yada just using little more than the basic ftp protacol. Extend that and you have a file manager
(this one is assuming the scenario where you have no hd and all your files all online or in a central company filestore)

5. Could we get Trillian or Gaim to work on this platform?
multipul protocals messengers can be made using a java (widget) front end so im confused why this one is even.

obviously none of this would be viable under current internet speeds. But it wasnt THAT long ago when my 9600 was the dogs!!

also you can always argue local hardware is gonna be faster. But if you cant afford it, its not help to anyone. The idea of my posts is to get people think of an alternate scenario as opposed to the way its done now.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Grrrr .....
by jlarocco on Sun 30th Jul 2006 03:31 UTC in reply to "Grrrr ....."
jlarocco Member since:
2005-09-14

Yeah, I use Opera as my only browser (as in, I don't even have any other ones installed), and I'm a little disappointed with the stability in 9. I use the weekly builds, so I don't expect the greatest stability, but it seems the 9(.01) release was less stable than some of the weekly builds. They probably should have waited a week or two to get the bugs out.

I don't use widgets at home, but at work I use a clock and calender so I can get rid of the taskbar in Windows.

I agree they're probably not the killer feature, but they make sense in certain situations. I have my browser open 99% of the time anyway, so might as well conserve resources.

Reply Score: 1

I smell Web 2.0 marketing
by Havin_it on Sun 30th Jul 2006 01:28 UTC
Havin_it
Member since:
2006-03-10

I can't help but worry when an outfit tries to punt its browser on the basis of 'widgets'. Remember the IE toolbar boom? That really benefited mankind and improved the browser's cache [cach-AY in the absence of French accents on my keyboard], didn'it?

Now I think widgets are a cute idea. I admit to having a couple on my desktop (courtesy of SuperKaramba) to which I've grown quite attached. But I had to wade through a swamp of half-baked crap to find those gems, and I imagine the 'community' for most other widget-platforms is much the same: overpopulated with hobbyists spewing out unfinished code and utterly banal bagatelles.

Why in the world a browser would want to be saddled with this kind of baggage, far less make it their main marketing plank, is beyond me. Somewhere, a Web 2.0 PR goon is cackling.

Reply Score: 1

RE: I smell Web 2.0 marketing
by FlipmodePlaya on Sun 30th Jul 2006 02:28 UTC in reply to "I smell Web 2.0 marketing"
FlipmodePlaya Member since:
2005-11-24

I'm a longtime Opera user who agrees with you that widgets have too many implementations and aren't horribly useful in the first place.

However, I don't mind them being in Opera. They haven't made the slightest noticeable increase in Opera's package size or RAM usage, and if you don't use them they certainly won't get in your way.

Besides, Opera's widgets are targeted more for mobile platforms than desktops: http://operawatch.com/news/2006/07/opera-ceo-jon-von-tetzcher-discu...

Reply Score: 3

Widgets <> bloat
by abdavidson on Sun 30th Jul 2006 02:43 UTC
abdavidson
Member since:
2005-07-06

Don't use them, and... voila. No "bloat".

Seriously though, this vision is aimed more broadly than at the Windows Desktop or even the Desktop in general. In fact the desktop is basically a peripheral 'hit' here; they're looking at embedded and mobile platforms (Opera Platform SDK... check it out) and allowing device makers to cut down on dev time for application/utils on their platforms and use Opera with the widgets there, but embedded as part of Opera there.

In that space it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

That it flows on from there to become widgets on the desktop platforms is neither here nor there if you are not interested, and if you are it's a boon. (Currency Converter and True HTML Editor are great and I'm using them a lot now...)

So what if Vista has Gadgets (have you seen the bloody awful sidebar based implementation?) or OSX has dashboard? Since when did application or utility development become a "There Can Be Only One" paradigm?

Reply Score: 1

RSS
by sigzero on Sun 30th Jul 2006 02:59 UTC
sigzero
Member since:
2006-01-03

If Opera did RSS like Safari...it would be my browser of choice on OSX.

Reply Score: 1

RE: RSS
by jlarocco on Sun 30th Jul 2006 04:23 UTC in reply to "RSS"
jlarocco Member since:
2005-09-14

For the unenlightened, how does Safari handle RSS?

I don't mean this at all as a flame/troll. I don't use RSS very often (3 feeds), but the way Opera does it makes a lot of sense to me. I'm curious how other apps handle it.

Reply Score: 2

Widgets
by nzMM on Sun 30th Jul 2006 05:31 UTC
nzMM
Member since:
2006-06-22

If it hasnt been mentioned yet ...

The reason widgets exist in Opera is because Opera is aim to become more than just a browser in the mobile market, its designing a course to become a 'platform'.

So Opera will infact provide the UI/front-end of future mobile devices, and the applications will be created as widgets, and via javascript be able to interface with the phone or device.

Theres an informative interview somewhere on the net.

Reply Score: 2

the link
by nzMM on Sun 30th Jul 2006 05:34 UTC
nzMM
Member since:
2006-06-22

sorry for double post, but for those who are interested about why Opera includes widgets:

http://operawatch.com/news/2006/07/opera-ceo-jon-von-tetzcher-discu...

I think this shows they have a pretty well thought out plan ... that seems very promising.

Reply Score: 1

Opera toolbar above tabs...
by shimmyone on Sun 30th Jul 2006 13:24 UTC
shimmyone
Member since:
2006-07-30

"
Give me an option to put the tabs below the address bar readily accessible in the preferences, and I may start using it more often (that is, other than to test compatibility for web sites I develop). Also, I really feel that the "Start Bar" should be off by default; too much clutter doesn't cause a good first impression.
"

Right click ->customize and move your address bar, navigation etc buttons up to either the personal bar or add the main bar.... I don't like the "start bar" either, or bittorrent (I need encryption b/c of ISP throttling), or widgets, but I don't use them so I guess good for the people who do. They're well enough out of the way.

Reply Score: 1

Ronald Vos
Member since:
2005-07-06

What I'd rather like to see, is a way (or at least one that is findable) to turn off using the built-in bittorrent client, and to make middle-click functionality pervasive, in bookmarks as well, like in Firefox.

I'd switch if it weren't for those 2 tiny things.

Reply Score: 1

alourenco Member since:
2006-07-17

type "opera:config", click "bittorrent" link, untick "enable"

Reply Score: 1