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I have been using Magnatune for several years now and have always been happy with the music I purchase there. Right after I first found out about them and made my first purchase I emailed John and he took the time to personally respond. I like outfits like that. Anyway, I have been recommending magnatune in forums where people are complaining about about DRM and the quality of music in MP3 format. And I must say that with a very good set of speakers the difference between MP3 and uncompressed music is like night and day.

Anyway, thanks for the review. It is nice doing business with a company that does not think that given the chance everyone is a pirate.

But we can hope some group will start the same business model here in the Philippines.

I bet there is an extension for *.m3u :-)

Limewire itself isn't the problem (aside from the ethical dilemma, of course). It's probably because the girl downloads a ton of crap without realizing how computers work.

This is good for everyone involved. I love the model that Magnatune tailored; multiple formats, keeping away from DRM allowing some sharing, etc. it's def. a step in the right direction and can only get better when more players become envolved.

I don't see this getting shut down anytime soon. The Music Industry is long overdue for a face lift. The majors have a lot to worry about. Things are no longer top down anymore, people's expectations are higher than they were 10 years.

It's like going to a show. You could just get in "for free" (if you understand me). But people choose to pay. Most people do.

OK that makes sense, sort of like that's the system now so people use it.

There is hardly any difference if you buy an CD. I mean what prevents me to just rip and share it. What stops me from making a copy by using an wav-output device.

That all doesn't take that nuch computer-savvyness.

DRM is a deeply flawed concept and i'm surprised that people accept it at all. Companys do go out of business from time to time. When there is no more authorizing company behind your buys all of your expensive musik you bought there is worthless after your next install|os change|major technical failure. It is most likely already useless on you mp3-player.

I would *never* buy DRMed Music and... surprise, although i have everything i have bought on CD in MP3-Form on my computer for my convienience, i never put anything of it into an p2p network.

How can anyone trust BitTorrent anyway. They should put up a 'You Will Not be Arrested' banner that is more specific like Maganatune does. Magantune says they are 100% legal. Can BiTorrent say that? YouTube can't say that either but the Flash on their site doesn't allow you to dload or trade I dont think.

The only way Magantune is surviving is by only allowing Creative Commons conrtracts.
If I go to another site I potentially can be arrested orDRMspied unknowingly.

"Magantune says they are 100% legal. Can BiTorrent say that?"

Uh, no? Because they are not comparable?
BitTorrent is a technology just like, say, HTTP which amazingly enough can also be used to download files illegally.
Magnatune, or anyone for that matter, can legally distribute their own content (or content with applicable license, Creative Commons) legally via BitTorrent just like with any other technology or medium.

"If I go to another site I potentially can be arrested orDRMspied unknowingly."

That depends on what site you go to. Downloading from sites like jamendo or SectionZ will not get you arrested.

There is hardly any difference if you buy an CD. I mean what prevents me to just rip and share it. What stops me from making a copy by using an wav-output device.

This is really the key. People who want to steal music will do it regardless if there's DRM involved or not. DRM does nothing to make dishonest people honest.

This is the same with movies. Studios are so nervous about offering up movies online for purchase and letting the purchasee burn the movie to a DVD or watch it on the device of their choice. But anyone who wants to distribute a movie online could just as easily rent the DVD and rip it themselves. And it would be cheaper that way too.

but I dont get it

It's not your fault, but it's easy: we don't have anything against the artists getting money for their work, and we don't have anything against having to pay for the music we like, but we do have many things against [generally speaking] having to pay for the "privilage" of reduced freedoms coming along with some drm-crippled form of music. We do have issues against someone making us pay to help them reduce our freedoms.

That's pretty well said. I believe artists have the right to charge for their work but that once I pay for it, I should be able to copy it onto CD or DVD or my MP3 player or what-have-you so that I can enjoy it when and where I like.

Of course they're not evil! Prog on!

Maybe it's not as easy to do this because they pay lots for bandwidth, media creation etc.

Not to mention that 50% to artist is about 30-50 times more than you get from a normal record label...

And I suppose if an agent finds you work, a home, a car or anything else for that matter 50% is okay with you ..but in this case we are talking about music. I'll give it to them it's more than what you'll get from the majors but quite honestly I don't believe 50% for an independent will last all too long.

Beats owing money to major label and having to declare bankruptcy.

Edited 2006-09-01 10:08

Sure it does, I agree with you. I just think it's a little heavy-handed. Too each their own.

This was a good article. It's nice to see that things are bubbling yet again from the bottom-up in a very positive way.

I'm not ruling out the cost of bandwith etc. although I doubt they are close to the traffic on YouTube. Either way I think more players are needed in the space to level out the ecosystem a bit more -- in favour of the original content producers.

I will give it to Magnatune though for being innovative.

considering artists get around 1 quid per cd sold.

If they get a dollar per cd sold, they're earning quite above average IIRC.

http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/print.html

If they get a dollar per cd sold, they're earning quite above average IIRC.

http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/print.html


Using your article as reference, which is dated Y2000:

($1MIL / AVG CD COST ) * 1 QUID =

50/50 is 50% more to the artist than what a major label offers to small artist. Even big artists rarely see more than a few percent of what their music is making, so 50/50 are very generous terms.

Depends on what your going for. The overhead of a major versus an independent is drastically different, not only that, but what a major offers far outways what any independent can offer alone thus far and it is a huge machine that needs a lot of cash to fuel the fire; that said I can't justify 50/50 even if using a major as a base point.

What does it take to keep an outfit like magT. floating? Throw a handful of full-timers a sprinkle of part-timers when necessary. Most music formatting can be batch processed these days. Bandwidth for even 1Tib is not as expensive today.

I'm not saying this is/isn't a better option for the artist. With a major you would have to sell exponentially more just to get something comparable with an independent in some cases. When looking through another lens, an independent isn't going to give you the same volume of sales.

My view, majors arn't going away anytime soon; the masses don't have time to seek out their own music to cultivate their own tastes and there will always be artists who will jump at the chance to rake in a good chunk of money. Independents that are in the biz, honestly are not offering even a 150 million units sold yet.

50/50 is not justifiable.

Edited 2006-09-02 00:09

You are on to something.

Well, the artist always has the option of marketing his or her own music and bearing the costs of business themselves.

50/50 sounds fair enough to me if Magnatune provides reasonable value to the artist.

> 50/50 is not justifiable

I agree. I'm pretty sure any band/musician featured at Magnatune would jump to a big recording label on a heartbeat if given the opportunity. Why? Because I honestly believe Magnatune is ripping them off more than the labels. The labels only give them 10%, or maybe less, from profits. But in return they take care of huge advertizing campaigns(that really pays off with sales and gig attendance), make sure stores nationwide are stocked with their records, and provide state-of-the-art recording and mastering facilities.

Magnatune gives their musicians 50%, but what do they do for them? They set up an FTP server to distribute their music, and press some CDs and make some merchandise to sell through the internet.


I personally see Magnatune as a glorified version of MP3.com, that is, an outlet for indie groups to do some networking and get themselves better known. With the difference that someone actually took his time to filter the music from the best Indie offerings beforehand, and is charging for that work.

To your question - maybe not even that. I asked three of my friends from the UK and they've never heard of them. Ever. I've certainly never heard of them, and I live in Hawaii. So - it sounds like they are not a British thing, they sound like they are a people-you-hang-out-with-and-their-friends-too thing.

You did, however, spike my interest, and now I'm going to google them. Mission accomplished in that regard!

Oh, and about the record company - all the best. I've been thinking about something along these lines for a while, now I'm planning to one-up them.

I know of them, and I know a few people who bought their CD. They were splashed all over my Amazon homepage a whiile back.

If you live in Hawaii (or any part of the US), even with friends from the UK there are going to be a lot of British bands you've never heard of.

Well I'm from Italy and I know them too!

Well, i live in germany and heard of them. Don't take that wrong please, but i think very few european music ever makes it to any part of the US, so that isn't realy a measurement.

Yes and I wish more did. I've discovered some awesome bands by accident... People from other countries on deviantArt, etc. that mention a song and I go and hunt it down...

For that matter I wish more "local" (read small) bands would get more fanfare... there is a lot of great music out there that we will never hear.

I've heard of them and their clip are on tv here. Im from the netherlands btw.

I have actually heard of the Arctic Monkeys! (I'm in upstate New York) I remember taking a brief listen to them, and will definately check them out again. :-)

Magnatune is 3 years in the business, they are not shooting stars.

Microsoft are...what? 30 years? in the business.

I wasn't questioning the business model, just the hype.

Yes, but MS already has a bad name. Magnatune doesn't, in the 3 years they are in business.

Yes, but MS already has a bad name.

Trust me, amongst non-geeks that's the last thing it will ever have.

But, that's the last I'll say on the subject.

Are you joking? Do you remember the 1990s? Even Leno was making fun of them.

Everybody uses Windows. Not that many people enjoy using Windows. Windows is something they put up with so they can get their reports to their boss on time.

I can attest to the fact that they are as advertised. I have been buying music from them for over 2 years and have been happy with my purchases. BTW, check out Beth Quist. She is one of my favorites. :-)

Yeah, she seems to be a very good artist. I am listening to her first album right now from Magnatune. She sounds like a post modern Enya. And she plays all musical instruments herself, just like Enya does.

Why is there so much difference in quality?

Very few CD's are sufficiently recorded.Many vinyl records on double stereo sound better than most CD's.

Anything higher then 96 k., Magnatune is 128K, you can hear minor crinkles and crunches like leaves and pebbles, cymbals. When CD's were around in the 90s it would get distorted at this stage creating a more boxy metallic sound, especially with drums, clipping the reverb allot, and mutilating any orchestra effect to more keyboardist sounding. To me the Beatle's Sargent Peppers and Hendrix just sounded horrible on CD. .
As I have been listening to 128K (higher resolution) recordings the last few years I am having much closer or even better experience to analog or 'chemical/vinyl' recordings like tape and records.
This is the same case for shadows and lighting and depth in digital video. I remember when the digital copy of Jaws looked allot worse because of the flat looking ocean, rather then the thick more 3d looking ocean with an analog copy.

Still I would keep my amps analog and who knows really how far digital will be able to emulate chemical. At that point it might just become redundant. Still, if you record it analog, 99% of people will choose to listen to it digitally.

As I have been listening to 128K (higher resolution) recordings the last few years I am having much closer or even better experience to analog or 'chemical/vinyl' recordings like tape and records.

SACD's mostly sound quite nice.Though there's a lot of difference between CD's even if they are recordered at the same bit rate.There should be some sort of a quality label.I'm quite willing to pay more for quality recordings.Here in the Netherlands we pay double the prize the people for example pay in the USA.

--As if i can hear a bird singing in dolby digital when i go outdoors--

Here in the Netherlands we pay double the prize the people for example pay in the USA.

Prices have been going down, though. I remember that right before the Euro, a new album would set you back 45 Guilders, which is 20,50 EUR. Now, we pay 15-17E per new album.

And I can know, I only buy music in real stores..

The question is, how accurate are those crinkles and crunches? Any pleasing effects of 128k MP3 are likely due to the fact that its basically low-pass filtered at 16 KHz, thus removing HF components that can sound bad on poor recordings or equipment. On the flip side, you lose some detail that you'd hear on good recordings.

(He says as he listens to ripped AACs of 80's rock through the built-in speakers on his MacBook...)

Will digital music ever be able to compare to the quality of analog or chemical or be better? How is the resoultuon measured trying to emulate this?
Is it mainly focused on kilohertz?
Bit doesn't really mean much it's more kilohertz right?
What are the best ways to do emulation. It's been a while since I checked out an electronic music site. Also I know Native Instruments does a great job at sound.

We just have to get musicians interested in the Creative Commons or stuff like Magnatune. It's all about networking., Most musicians can't record a good quality album so they have to rely on a service or record company to show them the way. Or just rent their own studio tech usually for a few thousand.

Also, entertainment people iare usually very different then the tech industry in that once something works they usually jump on the bandwagon very fast like Youtube. Set up by the tech industry of course.

Also, entertainment people iare usually very different then the tech industry in that once something works they usually jump on the bandwagon very fast like Youtube. Set up by the tech industry of course.

The entertainment industry traditionally doesn't have the problem that your Beatles CD won't play in your Oasis CD player.

The entertainment industry traditionally doesn't have the problem that your Beatles CD won't play in your Oasis CD player.

Not for lack of trying though. They've been trying to force incompatible formats on people whereever they can. Like the different tape formats, minidisk, betamax vs vhs, different DVD recording formats, blueray vs HDDVD.

Complete control over the medium has been somewhat of a wet dream of theirs. I just hope that DRM doesn't give it to them.

Good point. I should have finished with the old Tannenbaum quip, "Fortunately, work is already underway to remedy this."

Edited 2006-09-01 10:54

Have the majors been clueless about building initiatives around the net and using it as a distribution channel? How long did it take them to make steps towards the platform? What did it take for them to do that?

The majors will play it safe as usual. Can we expect anything else? Let's face it they are still some what scared, although the confidence level is building due in part to faith in the almighty DRM -- but still confusion surrounds; what model will work if at all be the "IT" model? How can we keep the business exactly how it's been and play in the online space as well? They have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

More than likely they will be playing catch-up to independents like Magnatune but by then it will probably be too little too late.

www.bleep.com

Bleep is the only music download service I've been willing to use, and have been using it since just before Christmas. Reasons being:

1. It's not Disgustingly Restricted Music.
2. All .mp3 files are 320kbps from LAME with the ‘--alt-preset standard’ variable.
3. You can get some FLAC albums from particularly big artists e.g. Autechre.
4. Pricing, is 99p per track, and then (this is good IMO) album prices are variable. I could pick up a 5-6 track EP for only £2.99 maybe, or a 33 track double-album for £8.99
5. They will zip your purchases for you if you'd like, or you can download them as individual tracks as and when you like.
6. They're part of the Warp label.

Of course, electronic music isn't everyone's thing, but while the site's major focus is still that, more and more indie music and other genres are starting to creep in as other labels take advantage of Bleep's system. Of course as ever, YMMV.

Magnatune looks interesting, but I'd think they might have more success if their artists were...

"Magnatune looks interesting, but I'd think they might have more success if their artists were..."

Bleep looks interesting, but I'd think they might have more success if their artists were...

I was thinking 'well known'.

Am I showing my age if I say that "electronic music" != "mp3/ogg/flac/wav/aac" to me?!

hey twenex - if you are, then you're showing my age too.

CURRENTLY NOT LICENSED FOR SALE IN NETHERLANDS

To bad :-)

Yeah, this is an unfortunate issue I've come across in a different way myself [licensing]. The band Low for example, have The Great Destroyer available on Bleep via the label Rough Trade (unrelated to Rough Trade Europe). Their other albums though are on the Kranky label, which while on Bleep with other music, hasn't licensed Low's catalogue to Bleep.

I hope Bleep gets around to letting more counties in on the action such as the Netherlands, and I also hope the labels find a consistent path to tread in regards to music downloads.

Personally, if the 'mainstream music companies' wish to get on my good boos, how about making old music available in something like how Magnatune are doing?

I love my olds music - Electric Light Orchestra, Sun Ra, Pharoh Sanders, Jimi Hendrix etc. The 'pirating kiddies' aren't going to be interested, and people like me, are quite happy to pay for access, and download top quality FLAC recordings.

The problem is, the music industry isn't willing to evolve and adapt to the new way things are being done; they can embrace and remain relevant, or eventually start to see their future stars decide to go to organistions like Magnatune rather than the established music organisations such as EMI, Sony and Universal.

If the artist is big enough they don't even need to go with a service like Magnatunes. Einstürzende Neubauten can hardly be claimed to be a global force, yet they're capable of funding their music these days via a 'supporter' system.

Artist charges $x.xx per year in exchange for live webcasts in the studio, periodic new tracks that are free and only available to supporters (.wav too in EN's case), and of course a finished album that has IMO a far more personal touch to it than something produced for a massive label. How is that not better value?

I do agree with you though with the idea of a kind of digital archive for music over a certain age, whereby you pay yearly for access. One of Sun Ra's albums on Amazon is apparently #87,013, somebody else's mention of Arctic Monkeys? made me look them up and their album is #18,525. I don't think the record industry has to worry too much about the old stuff being made available eating into their profits too much. Hell, they might even make more money, a service like that will see more advertisement that any album over a certain age these days seems to get.

I do agree with you though with the idea of a kind of digital archive for music over a certain age, whereby you pay yearly for access. One of Sun Ra's albums on Amazon is apparently #87,013, somebody else's mention of Arctic Monkeys? made me look them up and their album is #18,525. I don't think the record industry has to worry too much about the old stuff being made available eating into their profits too much. Hell, they might even make more money, a service like that will see more advertisement that any album over a certain age these days seems to get.

And the baby boomers are wanting to buy music, but find that the staff in music stores are not helpful for their needs, they use the internet, so why not take advantage of simply providing access to all the old music that they used to listen to?

If they charged me even $200 per year to non-DRM music, on high speed servers, in high quality FLAC format, I would be more than happy to pay for it.

If they charged me even $200 per year to non-DRM music, on high speed servers, in high quality FLAC format, I would be more than happy to pay for it.

I would not, since I detest not having an actual copy with original artwork and jewel case. Other than that, the experience of buying music in a well-established record store that has served music fans for 40 years now is unbeatable by any flashy website.

Websites are impersonal. When I buy music, I want a good service from an actual human being, who himself is passionate about music too. iTunes don't offer me that.

Other than that, the experience of buying music in a well-established record store that has served music fans for 40 years now is unbeatable by any flashy website.

And the experience of buying music at a small show from a band-member of the band you just saw or the person who released a cd of his/her friend's band on his small diy label is unbeatable by any record store, even 40 year old record stores.

Different folks, different strokes.

Websites are impersonal. When I buy music, I want a good service from an actual human being, who himself is passionate about music too. iTunes don't offer me that.

I don't know where you shop for your music, but I can tell you that the vast majority of people who work at music stores are pimply faced teenagers who know absolutely NOTHING about music.

Unless the music you want is from one of the top 10 shallow entertainers within the last 5 minutes, don't expect them to know anything about any music older than they are.

Sure, I have a music collection that ranged from Rachmaninoff to Rammstein, and Jimi Hendrix to Miles Davis; I don't represent the 'majority of music' purchases, I am of a small group who actually has some appreciation of music of all genres and don't 'go with with what is hot and not' depending on what the screeming girls think is hot.

Hey come on! ELO is NOT old music. And I am not old either.

Tuishimi, you are right! ELO is absolutely *not* old. And neither are we!

(I know from experience that when you are trying to convince yourself of something, it is sometimes very helpful to have someone else present to agree with you.)

;-)

Thank you!

Maybe I am thick, but I see no way to download free MP3's. You can merely stream the music and listen for free.

What is streamed can be downloaded right :-)

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/3023/

Download the .m3u file, open it with a text editor, and copy/paste the mp3 URL.

Yes but that gets a bit boring after a while.Thus a little automation here and there can't harm,therefore the link to a firefox extension that exactly does the thing you described.

Yes but that gets a bit boring after a while.Thus a little automation here and there can't harm,therefore the link to a firefox extension that exactly does the thing you described.

Or one could just use wget, which is also available for Windows and will take a text file as input. :-)

I'm a soloist. On lonely nights anyway...

Finally artists tacking control ovr their artistic work, and benefiting from their own hard work rather than having the 'status quo' rammed down their throats by record executives who are more concerned with generating large sums of cash to support their crushy lifestyle.

+1

I used to like Alice In chains,Perl Jam,Metallica,Faith No More and others during the eighties.Nowadays they can hardly throw a dent in a package of butter.I have listened to some bands on magnatune and it's sometimes quite refreshing to hear "infamous" music.

Edited 2006-09-01 14:50

Visiting Magnatunes, don't expect to see any names you have heard before. But don't let that stop you from listening to the artists on magnatune. If your only musical influence is what you are spoon fed by the media then you are missing out on a lot of great music.

You may not find anything at Magnatunes that you enjoy. However I suggest that whether or not you have heard of the band is not a great way to find out if you actually like their music.

one of the very first names I saw (Atomic Opera) is a band I recognize... In fact, I already have all their albums. I think I'm going to enjoy exploring and supporting Magnatunes!

Go ahead.

Well, sorry, but I don't get Audiogalaxy. They had a top-ten on their site, I saved the 10 MB mp3 that they linked as their No1 song, and it doesn't play with any of my media apps. What's up with that? And besides, Audiogalaxy is just a music search engine and sometimes (by mistake mostly) they even link to copyrighted material illegally (according to their FAQ). Audiogalaxy might have more artists, but the actual ease of use of their site and what you get does not compare to the expererience of magnatune.

not the AG of now, the ag that got shut down; hence the r.i.p. and lament. The AG brand got re-used like napster.