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Yes, the Mac Mini is a little pricey, esp. when put next to the new iMacs.

Yes... I upgraded mine to the 2.0 core duo.... I would have thought maybe it would at least match up to the Macbooks.

But how about that 24" iMac!! That's pretty awesome.

I think that's kind of Apple's plan

"Look we sell really small, cool computers at a fairly reasonable price. But wait - we also sell iMacs which offer so much more in the way of features and at not that much more of a price! Aren't we amazing!"

The Mac Mini fits in your entertainment centre much better than an iMac does....

Yeah Apple should drop llike $100 or $150 off the Mac Mini.

Yet still, the Mac Mini is not Core Duo 2... which remains a disappointment.

I think that for some more buck, one should get the new 17" iMac [the full featured version].

If you are looking for a $600 computer, just build yourself a PC. That makes more sense.

I've been thinking about getting a Mac Mini. I've never had any Apple product of any kind, but have been interested in testing out OSX to see how I like it.

Hey! That's exactly what I was thinking and was going to say. But I'm going to get a new one.

In fairness, MacOS is about the only mainstream OS left that's tied to its vendor's hardware, however tenuously (yes I know about RISC OS, but whilst I'm very happy for you if YOU are happy with it, that doesn't make it mainstream). So I think updates about new hardware are fair game in this case.

VAT : US prices are VAT less, European ones are not (in france the price is 835,29€ without taxes)

in my country, 999 euro translates to 1290 dollars. 999 US + TAX, is at most 1100 dollars, so 1290 is still 190 dollars more expensive.

A better comparison would be the US and EU prices, both without VAT/sales tax.

Well, £1,150.38 for the most expensive model (US price + tax), in the UK £1,349.01 - a difference of ~£200. To put that in perspective, that's $376 more than the USA.

I've always thought of the major price difference for the UK as simply being to pay for the plug being different.

To be fair though, it's not as black and white as that. I myself am a PC owner (make my own etc.), but Mac prices vary far less from country to country, from what I've seen than for example, Dell.

in my country, 999 euro translates to 1290 dollars. 999 US + TAX, is at most 1100 dollars, so 1290 is still 190 dollars more expensive.

You are correct that sales tax in the US is usually in the 10% neighborhood (actually, 8% would be a better average).

However, isn't the VAT in places like Germany, Netherlands, or Scandinavia more like 20%?

However, isn't the VAT in places like Germany, Netherlands, or Scandinavia more like 20%?

In my lovely little country the BTW (Belasting Toegevoegde Waarde, literally: Tax over Added Value) is 19%. Taxes deducted, th elow-end iMac costs 839.50 EUR, which is using current exchange rates, 1073.38 USD.

So, we Dutch pay 75 USD more (+7.5%), which is a lot, but a lot more acceptable than it used to be. Apple is going the in right direction with this, probably taking the criticism they received about this to heart.

However, things get a little nastier when we look at the Mac Mini. The low-end model costs 599 USD, and taxes deducted 520.17 EUR in The Netherlands. That's 665.05 USD.

That's 65 USD more (+10.9%) which I just find a little too much. Here, a Mac Mini is ANYTHING but entry-level. On the iMac side, it's going in the right direction; the Mini is not (yet).

So, we Dutch pay 75 USD more (+7.5%), which is a lot, but a lot more acceptable than it used to be. Apple is going the in right direction with this, probably taking the criticism they received about this to heart.

If I buy a $999 imac in most of New York State (US), add the 8% State Tax, my Bill would be roughly US$1079, so you're US$4 ahead. Counties (sub portions of states) can have different taxes. In Buffalo NY (Erie County), for instance, there's a .75% county tax in addition to the 8% State tax. In other states (Delaware, for example), there's no state or local sales tax at all. This is why US Prices are always listed without tax added.

Even more complicated, in some cases essential food items (rice, bread, milk) will not have sales tax applied, while other food (candy, soda-pop, etc) will. Unless it's "tax-free" week in which the state declares there is no sales tax. The state will do this every so often to get people to buy stuff. (This is all New York stuff, since it's what I'm familar with. The other states I've lived in (PA, MD) seem to stick with a fairly flat rate or 5%.)

Edited 2006-09-06 18:37

f I buy a $999 imac in most of New York State (US), add the 8% State Tax, my Bill would be roughly US$1079, so you're US$4 ahead.

The prices I gave were TAX DEDUCTED, as CLEARLY said. So, my comparisons were made using prices WITHOUT taxes. To that 1075USD we pay, you need to add 19% VAT.

Edited 2006-09-06 18:37

The prices I gave were TAX DEDUCTED, as CLEARLY said. So, my comparisons were made using prices WITHOUT taxes. To that 1075USD we pay, you need to add 19% VAT.

Oh, that's unfortunate. At least you get health care.

PA is a flat 6% tax. Food (grocery store food, not pre made) and clothing is not taxed.

Yeah, here in Norway the VAT is a staggering 25%, so the price of the cheapest iMac is $1380USD. Still I would classify that in the "cheap" range...

so 1290 is still 190 dollars more expensive.

Yes, but how much do you pay every month for health insurance?

It costs me $95 a month to put my husband on my HMO. (For you in Europe, a Health Maintainance Organization is the cheapest, most restrictive kind of health insurance there is. [Were I to go to a less restrictive plan, it would be $212 a month to insure him.])

Edited 2006-09-06 18:42

(It costs me $95 a month to insure my husband ... under an HMO.)

You think we get free healthcare? I wish! Do not be fooled. We pay our healthcare via our employers. In other words, before you get your money from your employer, healthcare insurance will be taken off of it.

This is done to ensure nobody is without proper healthcare insurance.

No, I don't think you get free health care. (I don't, either. My salary is lower than in the public sector, the price of my "free" health insurance.)

My point was actually that there isn't a free lunch.

European governments tend to provide certain amenities/services that the US government doesn't -- well maintained dykes and functional disaster relief organizations come to mind* -- but all of that comes at a price. Namely, taxes.


---
*I've been re-reading some of my friends' Hurricane Katrina blogs recently ....

Namely, taxes.

Ah, okay, understood then.

And yes, you are right. We Dutch may pay a lot more taxes then Americans do, but we also get a lot more in return.

Yes, because so many people in Apple's target market for the iMac want to hook it up to 2 or more networks at once…

Fanless though would be great, pretty hard to achieve though. When someone starts putting out fanless tower cases, I think you have more of a case for demanding a fanless iMac.

What about sharing your Internet connection using an ethernet modem ?
I was talking about the mac-mini by the way, not the iMac.

buy a $60 broadband modem. You'll be able to let your mac sleep when you're not using it and you'll probably be a lot happier knowing that you're behind at least a nat'd environment. As secure as MacOSX is out of the box, there's plenty of software that will open up ports such as apache, and other services.

That and i think it's against a lot of AUPs of providers to run servers on your connection.

huh? how is this possible?

How seriously can you take someone who wants a Mac Mini to share an internet connection, instead of buying a dedicated router that would be heaps cheaper?

Security...

Sounds more like you should be using an ethernet switch to me

Heaven forbid someone not know what Value Added Taxes are. Please, let's imply they're stupid for not knowing that.

For those people where VATs matter, they know about...if you live in a country that has a VAT, then you should know what it is...otherwise you are stupid.

I think they are fortunate, not stupid. IMHO VAT is worst kind of taxes. With Income Tax you know how much money is taken from your salary. With VAT it's hard to know how much exactly is taken plus everything costs more. Therefore, when speaking about people that don't know what VAT is (because thay don't have it) I must quote words of Bertold Brecht: "How fortunate the man with none".

Yes, and the worst thing with VAT is that even you are poor or rich, you pay the same VAT.

VAT is something that really hurts poor but not rich.

Edited 2006-09-06 18:43

I'll buy that (but only from a store in New Hampshire, where I understand they don't have sales tax ;-) )

> EUR price is INCLUDING VAT!!!

Leaving aside that this wasn't mentioned anywhere in the news entry, the VAT changes dependeding on the contry, therefore I'm a bit puzzled as of what country that VAT-ized price applies to?

Ok, haven't followed (yet) any of the links in the news entry, but if one is to compare prices, then better put them in their proper context, don't you think?

The point is simply to have standardized pricing over the affected markets. Over time the value of the USD could be lowered which would make the EUR priced iMacs cheaper, but it would still be standardized pricing.

Not like the shit Dell does who is abusing the EU market to be able to give the US market cheaper stuff.

Actually, does this mean they've released the edu model ot the general public? It certainly looks like it.

It actually looks usable, too. 160GB instead of 80GB drive, plus the new processor.

No-one seems to have realised, but Apple appears to have released their first budget PC, the low-end iMac.
Don't be absurd. The iMac G3 and eMac sold for as low as $899 and $799.

The earlier came with no screen, and the latter was a CRT. The $999 price is fair considering the form factor.

err, how would you sell an iMac G3 without a screen? Was it just the motherboard?

Whoops, my bad, you're right. I was thinking PowerMac G3 >.<

Well, considering those models are 5 years old, of course they (how the hell would they ship an iMac without a screen....was it a cube with a gaping hole in it???) are going to include CRTs and not LCDs. That'd be like saying the 386's from IBM back in 1992 were expensive because you can buy much faster computers from Apple in 2006.

"$999 is a pretty sweet spot when it comes to selling PCs."

In your wealthy country, perhaps.

UPDATE: I can live up to 2 months with that money here.

Edited 2006-09-06 18:25

Its not a sweet spot in the US either... I worked at Dell a couple years ago trying to sell computers on the phone, $399 is the sweet spot for these chumps.

Anyway, $999 would easily get me a month of expenses (however, I live with 2 other people so my rent is cut pretty low), but I doubt it would last two.

You'd be amazed how the 20" screen doesn't seem huge after a couple of weeks. I went from a 15" iMac G4 to a 20" iMac G5 last year, and now any smaller screen just gives me digital claustrophobia.

Browser, email, adium buddy list, bunch of post-it notes, iTunes... all on screen at the same time. You can't beat it. If I were upgrading now I would definately get the 24" one.

Google is your friend young one :-P

http://www.google.com/search?q=core%202%20duo%20mac~*~@...

Apple just did it in the iMac upgrade by the look of things. The 17" and 20" are identical but for the processor, which suggests they probably just dropped a different processor into the socket.

We have a 20" iMac here. We like it for a few reasons:

- it sits tidily and attractively in our living room (no mess of wires and no ugly boxes)
- it does the business and is nearly silent
- I do not get tempted to take it apart

It will be here doing its job until the (John Lewis) warranty runs out in four (and a bit) years time.

Sooner or later computers need to become appliances!
Even geeks need to channel their efforts into enjoying their specialties.

One day, after a hot July, your drive will show signs of crashing. You will immediately try to do a backup using CCC. It will abort 90% of the way through. You will open the case, and discover a hard drive positioned in such a way that it is guaranteed to overheat.

Never mind, you have your backup. You'll try to start from it. Oops. Its USB. Can't boot from USB, only Firewire.

OK, you install a new drive, install the OS from scratch, now you try to get back your settings. Scattered in library files at random all over the place, and when you do copy them back, they don't work right.

Yes, sooner or later computers need to become appliances. But they have not in the iMacs. When they go wrong, and they will, you are royally screwed. Make a clone to a firewire drive, and make it now. Maybe your idea of an appliance. Not mine.

Edited 2006-09-06 21:36

Never mind, you have your backup. You'll try to start from it. Oops. Its USB. Can't boot from USB, only Firewire.

Try again. I booted my Mac Mini G4 off of my USB 2.0 backup drive more than once. I even installed and ran OS X from the USB drive with the internal drive wiped clean.

You need to learn to troll better.

"Note also that USB drives do not allow booting Power PC based Macintoshes under any version of Mac OS X: this is not a SuperDuper! limitation, but one of the OS. If you would like to boot from a backup stored on an external drive, and have a Power PC based Mac, please purchase a Mac compatible FireWire drive."

This is from

http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html

And I suppose they know what they are talking about? I do not troll. And what was described is a real experience.

He may be trolling about I don't know what, but PowerPC Macintosh have no ability to boot from USB devices.
Only *some* firewire drives (some Firewire have had problems booting, Lacie, IOmega, Maxtor, WD are known to work, ymmv).

Then please tell me how it was that I was able to do it. I didn't have any special driver, it was 10.4 Tiger on G4 mini. It was a cheapo USB 2.0 case with a 40gb Fujitsu notebook drive installed. The only connection was USB, there was no firewire in sight.

and based on your adept and saavy business acumen, this is why you too run a multi billion global corporation? Apple knows their pricing and their market. First the arugment was if they made a headless imac, i'd buy it. delivered. Then it was but it doesnt run windows. delivered. then it was it was, now if theyd just put an intel chip in it, delivered. now its well it could be cheaper and needs to have this this this and this and this before me and others like would buy it. I have a better idea; get a job, dump or get off the pot and just get one. if not, ok, but read the article and move on. i tire so much of people that know more than the beleagured apple thats been slowly dying and going out of business and making missteps against MS and others since 1990.

Totally agree with you jaceebleu...

The pricing is pretty good. Look at what you are getting. A "good" 20" screen in Australia costs around AUS$1000, so for another AUS$1299 you get a pretty cool iMac that can run a heap of s/w that a non-Mac cannot, plus it comes with a full OS (not a Home version), iLife and heaps of other stuff, including some very nice dev tools (including XCode, WebObjects, unix dev tools and so on).

Can I get a PC cheaper, yeah, a bit cheaper, but then I can't run OS X (which for me is important).

If you don't like Macs, then fine, cross that bridge. I think Apples pricing isn't bad at all and a lot of my "PC" friends are now buying or considering buying a Mac now.

So please, if you don't like OS X or have no need for it, don't buy a Mac. I do know that Dell have been shipping a laptop that is much cheaper than the MacBook with similar (better) specs, but as I need OS X the Dell isn't good for me, nothing against the Dell however, just not the tool for the job I need.

Oh, and most of the iMacs now have 1G standard!!! Very nice... / Finally :-)

" Apple knows their pricing and their market."

Obviously not; Apple bombarded us with the "switch to mac" since OSX came out and they just admitted in their last WWDC that only 50% of their new sellings were for Winodws customers; from this we can see that Apple cares about windows users -unlike you-, while they cannot reach the heart and dollar of them because they don't listen quickly to such wishes that they even promote you to send on their web site.

"now if theyd just put an intel chip in it:"

Actually, it wasn't customers wish for intel chip but rather Apples choice to get rid of IBM ignorance and disrespect to Apple's Buisness demands especially for laptops product line.

"get a job, dump or get off the pot and just get one."

You are either amature for what you said or you are a frustrated Apple's customer support guy.

There is a wise say for you: Those who don't believe FACTS, must suffer till they respect them.