Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 17th Sep 2006 21:22 UTC
In the News "Some buyers of Apple's new MacBook notebook are hopping mad about random restarts and heat problems that don't fit with Apple's image. Still, Dell might be happy to have Apple's current problem and a bit of its banked reputation. How long can a solid-gold brand take a beating and keep on ticking? Apple Computer will find out this quarter with the growing list of user complaints about its recently released MacBook notebook model randomly shutting down."
Order by: Score:
real number of defected notebooks...
by pistooli on Sun 17th Sep 2006 21:58 UTC
pistooli
Member since:
2005-07-09

you see each and every user shouting out loud whenever he/she has a problem... however you do not hear the voices of those satisfied thousands with no complaints at all... (including me with my MacBook)

Reply Score: 5

D3M0N Member since:
2005-07-09

My uncle bought a Mac Book and it too has had no issues. I was actually impressed as I was expecting issues because of all of the complaining. His doesn't even "overheat" as people were complaining about when they first came out.

Reply Score: 2

jrlah Member since:
2005-08-09

I agree. I got my MacBook three months ago after two Dell and one HP Compaq notebooks (I dual booted Windows and Redhat/Fedora Core Linux on all three). I never had any hardware issues with Dells (they are still in function) while HP Compaq died terminally (display and RAM) after a year and a half. So far I haven't had any issues with my MacBook, and in terms of user experience (I am an advanced user) it is by far the best computer I have ever had. As a result of this experience, I have decided to soon replace my aging home Dell desktop (also no problems whatsoever in four and a half years) with a Mac Pro.

Edited 2006-09-17 22:28

Reply Score: 2

amp306 Member since:
2006-03-06

My black macbook I got the end of august is absolutly fine, i have had none of the complained problems. The computer does not get too hot, its constantly around 40-50 celcius, it never randomly shuts down, doesn't moo, or what ever your complait is. This is my 1st mac too, and i love it, it has great battery life and is the fastest computer i have ever used.
black macbook /w 1 gig of apple ram.

Reply Score: 1

lustiouss Member since:
2006-07-26

While it might be so that you are all good "now" give it some time and you'll be raising hell. When money is dropped on hardware that is marketed a cut above the rest you expect better.

MAC's work great when nothing is wrong and the absolute worst when there is a problem. You better believe someone is going to deal with an uproar.

He who laughs last, laughs best.

Reply Score: 1

evangs Member since:
2005-07-07

Read the comments. There are users who have had Macbooks for months and aren't complaining, because they do not face any of the issues brought up in the article.

My Macbook doesn't have the problems described in the article, and I use it 12 - 16 hours each day (yes, I am that sad).

Reply Score: 3

skingers6894 Member since:
2005-08-10

Let me add to the voice of the satisfied...

I have had a 17" MBP for a couple of months now.

It hasn't blown up, doesn't whine, is no hotter than the box it replaces (17" Power Book), restarts only when I want it to and runs like a cut cat!

Runs Windows in a window faster than any PC notebook I've owned while also running Ubuntu in another window.

Happy? Deliriously so.

Best computer I've ever owned in 26 years without a doubt.

Reply Score: 1

Statistics, reputation
by PowerMacX on Sun 17th Sep 2006 21:59 UTC
PowerMacX
Member since:
2005-11-06

From the article: "I spoke to four users of MacBooks. Two had no troubles. One had had a complete logic board failure and received a new machine after a week.

But the fourth customer said he has a severe case of the restart blues. His machine has been into the shop twice, each time the tech saying it was fixed. On the third try, he is still awaiting its return and the five-day fix keeps being extended.

While that's a random selection, it's troubling. But that's statistics for you, right? This is a small sample.


[sarcasm]Well, my MacBook is running fine so according to my "statistics" 100% of the MacBooks are fine! A small sample too (of 1).[/sarcasm]

"Still, Apple has much good will in the bank. Ironically, its great reputation may be fueling the reaction by customers. They expect quality and demand quality. And when it's not delivered, they howl."

*That* is the real hindsight. If anything went wrong with *my* MacBook you can be sure I'll:
1) Take it to the store for a fix/replacement
2) Post about it in Apple's forums if they take too long to do so or I'm in any way dissatisfied about their response.

Reply Score: 2

v Here we go again...
by Governa on Sun 17th Sep 2006 22:00 UTC
Go to an Apple store to see complaints
by aent on Sun 17th Sep 2006 22:15 UTC
aent
Member since:
2006-01-25

I was just at the Apple store looking at their latest products when, what do you know, there were a ton of people complaining about their laptop randomly rebooting, and a couple about really short battery lives. Most people don't complain though, in reality, as they think "computers all have problems"... Most people think that the computers really do just get slower and need replacement over time for some reason.

Reply Score: 5

MonkeyPie Member since:
2005-07-06

That's strange, since I was also just at AN Apple Store myself. I just got back from Houston, Texas. I went down to see my friends and I thought I would go into the Galleria and talk with another friend of mine that works at the Apple Store there.

He works the Genius Bar and while I was there I didn't hear one person complain about their laptop. I am not saying you are exaggerating or anything like that but my experience was somewhat different. Heck, I was even there for about an hour and a half waiting for him to get off of work. Didn't hear a single person complaining except that they had run out of green Nanos already.

JRM7

Reply Score: 2

dingo Member since:
2006-09-18

Nothing particular strange about it.

Our company puchased three Macbooks at the beginning of the year. One had the cronic shutdown problem and was sent back to Apple and replaced in about 5 weeks (too long if you ask me).

Three months later another three Macbooks were ordered. One also had the same shutdown problem and was sent back to Apple. When it came back it developed the same problem again and was back a week or two ago. We are still waiting for the replacement

How can this just be a bad batch?. Based on our experiences it seems that one in three Macbooks are faulty.

-Tom

Reply Score: 4

Problems happen.
by theTSF on Sun 17th Sep 2006 22:32 UTC
theTSF
Member since:
2005-09-27

Problems happen, Unfortunately I haven't heard lately of any good PC Company, A while back I consulted my friend to get a Dell and not a Gateway, because while the Dell costs more it was worth it. But now I had a friend ask the same company I went threw the list. And basically all PC suck! So I told her to try an Apple.

Reply Score: 3

Intel Boards
by hraq on Sun 17th Sep 2006 22:46 UTC
hraq
Member since:
2005-07-06

"Apple engineering may have gone wrong somehow with the MacBook. Or perhaps the trouble will be found in just some of the production runs for the notebook."

What would you expect from an intel board v 1; and what would you expect from Sony battery, I personally would not expect much.

Of course you cannot compare intel boards with IBM/Motorolla, which concentrate on quality than speed.

Current Core2 Duo motherboards from intel don't have a boot menu to let you choose the boot device you want to start, including the best of the line 975x which cost about 300 $, whereas all other board manufacturers allow this feature and all you to do it by pressing F8 or F12 or Esc.

Intel don't look to quality as much as they are looking for performance or any thing with market value; IBM, Sun and AMD on the other hand are very keen to quality, thats why they were the pioneers to start controlling heat from their CPUs rather than being obssessed with performance alone.

I hope that Apple didn't choose the bad platform to support after all, because customers are not willing for another platform change.

Apple Engineers should release the cause of the problem to let customers know where is the problem and that It is not comming from Apple in order not to loose faith in their products.

I am sad for Apple and for the customers who expect the quality in Apple Land.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Intel Boards
by rayiner on Sun 17th Sep 2006 23:01 UTC in reply to "Intel Boards"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

Bullshit.

None of the problems reported with the MacBook had anything to do with Intel. They were all Apple flaws, in the cooling, the casing, etc.

The PowerPC machines were no better in that regard. Remember all the dead G3 notebook logic boards, the TiBook peeling paint, etc, etc.

And its comical you say AMD is "very keen to quality". It is only in the last few years that AMD quality has become acceptable. To this day AMD systems (largely because of supporting infrastructure), are less reliable than Intel ones. Its exceedingly rare to find an Intel motherboard that crashes randomly. It's par for the course on AMD motherboards.

Also, don't forget that the Intel switch means no more Apple chipsets. That in and of itself will decrease the problems with systems enormously.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Intel Boards
by elektrik on Mon 18th Sep 2006 00:50 UTC in reply to "RE: Intel Boards"
elektrik Member since:
2006-04-18

You're kidding right? You actually believe that Intel Motherboards that randomly crash are exceedingly rare? If you do, I have some (increasingly difficult to find) swampland in Florida for sale (You'll have to do some clean up though-there's at least 8 Intel Motherboards I or my developer friends dumped there because of their complete and utter unreliability)

Edited 2006-09-18 00:52

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Intel Boards
by xrobertcmx on Mon 18th Sep 2006 13:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Intel Boards"
xrobertcmx Member since:
2005-09-21

Pardon?,

I can't speak for G3's. I can barely speak as to the last generation of G4 Powerbooks and then only to say that I personally never had a moments trouble from mine. Nor have I seen any problems with my MacBook. But I only own 1 of the several million that happened to be sold and do not personally know anyone else with one.
As for AMD, I've been using and building AMD based systems ever since my little K6-2 450.
The thing about AMD is that you just can't use cheap components. If you do, things fail. I learned this the hard way back in '01 when I used a Via Based ECS motherboard in a machine. Three Via based boards later I gave up, spent the money, bought an Asus (SIS 745 chipset) and that Machine is still running stable today.
It is the same with the every machine I've built. The only randomly restarting machine I've mistakenly built in the past 5 years was due to a faulty PowerSupply.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Intel Boards
by puddleglum on Mon 18th Sep 2006 00:02 UTC in reply to "Intel Boards"
puddleglum Member since:
2005-07-20

I guess they should have stayed with PowerPC. :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Intel Boards
by HappyGod on Mon 18th Sep 2006 03:44 UTC in reply to "Intel Boards"
HappyGod Member since:
2005-10-19

It's Apple's logo on the box, not Intel's. If there's a build issue (and clearly there is), the fault lies with Apple, because they should have performed better QA on their product.

You also cannot argue that you can ignore loads of complaints on the grounds that many are satisfied. That's just a cop-out.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Intel Boards
by Arun on Mon 18th Sep 2006 15:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Intel Boards"
Arun Member since:
2005-07-07

It's Apple's logo on the box, not Intel's. If there's a build issue (and clearly there is), the fault lies with Apple, because they should have performed better QA on their product.

You are making a fatal assumption, that enough QA will always find problems that occur in the field. No company on this planet can have a QA test matrix large enough to handle ever single scenario a customer can put a product through.

Problems can and do happen in the field no matter how good your engineering and system building proccess. Multi-symptom problems are hard to diagnose. Especially if there are marginal parts in manufacturing or the process itself.

You also cannot argue that you can ignore loads of complaints on the grounds that many are satisfied. That's just a cop-out.

So far there is no data that Apple is ignoring the problem. The internet forums are rife with stories of Customers getting an instant exchange at the store. There are some reports that Apple has been unsuccessful in fixing the problem multiple times but that stil means they are doing something about it. I costs Apple money to ship repair products back and forth.

Edited 2006-09-18 15:52

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Intel Boards
by tomcat on Mon 18th Sep 2006 17:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Intel Boards"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

You are making a fatal assumption, that enough QA will always find problems that occur in the field. No company on this planet can have a QA test matrix large enough to handle ever single scenario a customer can put a product through.

Problems can and do happen in the field no matter how good your engineering and system building proccess. Multi-symptom problems are hard to diagnose. Especially if there are marginal parts in manufacturing or the process itself.


None of that relieves Apple of responsibility when failures DO occur.

So far there is no data that Apple is ignoring the problem.

Let's hope that Apple continues to be as responsive.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Intel Boards
by Arun on Mon 18th Sep 2006 19:36 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Intel Boards"
Arun Member since:
2005-07-07

None of that relieves Apple of responsibility when failures DO occur.

No where did I say Apple is relieved of responsibility. Apple in fact is taking responsibility.

Do you have proof that they are blaming Intel or are not diagnosing the issue or even not working on fixes?

Absent such evidence you can't claim that Apple isn't doing the needful. I questioned the notion that Apple didn't do enough QA.

Reply Score: 2

Could it be the opposite?
by Bastian on Sun 17th Sep 2006 22:48 UTC
Bastian
Member since:
2005-07-25

I wonder how much of the noise about MacBooks are actually because of Apple's reputation. I have yet to hear any statistics about failure rates, but I do know that other Apple users tend to be very squeaky wheels - contrast this with a few people I know who keep buying lemons from Dell but never think to make noise or start checking around for other brands; they jut take flakiness as par for the course with computers.

Isn't this what happened with iPods - folks went nuts about the batteries crapping out so quickly, but upon scrutiny it turned out that their batteries weren't performing any worse than other MP3 players' batteries. (I do have to wonder, though, if it's just that the battery rot on iPods is more noticeable because they often use smaller batteries to begin with.)

Reply Score: 1

re: Here we go again...
by spook on Sun 17th Sep 2006 23:26 UTC
spook
Member since:
2006-01-09

Right, that takes the biscuit with this place.

A post containing no abuse or bad language modded down to -5, okay fair enough, seems drastic but what the hell, people don't agree

But to make it so you are unable to mod up, mod down or even reply to it, is really unacceptable. This is the first time that really feel you have gone too far, what the hell are you playing at Thom

Totally disgusted

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Here we go again...
by Kondor337 on Mon 18th Sep 2006 00:13 UTC in reply to "re: Here we go again..."
Kondor337 Member since:
2006-09-16

I'm really disgusted, too. While I often disagree with Thom, I didn't know that he's trying to play dictator here. I hope this was a one time thing because he got up on the wrong side of the bed today or something.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Here we go again...
by arthurbarnhouse on Mon 18th Sep 2006 00:52 UTC in reply to "re: Here we go again..."
arthurbarnhouse Member since:
2006-09-18

you're disguested?? I guess. I think that if the gentleman who had posted would have just stuck to the facts he was right about (IE. Apple's good rep. from PC mag despite growing pains of the Macbook) instead of doing that AND acting like a pompous ass about the article, he wouldn't have been modded down. Stick to your points and don't act like a dick and you're fine.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Here we go again...
by meianoite on Mon 18th Sep 2006 02:20 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Here we go again..."
meianoite Member since:
2006-04-05

"Stick to your points [...] and you're fine."

Allright, then. I hope Governa won't mind my intromission

"(...)Newly published data from the American Customer Satisfaction Index show that Apple leads other personal computer manufacturers, beating out Dell, HP and others.

http://www.theacsi.org/second_quarter.htm#per

On a 100 point scale, Apple merited a score of 83, according to the ACSI, a 2.5 percent year-over-year increase and a 7.8 percent increase from 1995, the first year the ACSI measured the PC industry.

The annual ACSI is sponsored by the American Society for Quality (ASQ) and University of Michigan’s M. Ross School of Business. It’s derived from phone interviews with customers contacted by using digital-dial telephone samples — more than 70,000 consumers are identified and interviewed annually.(...)"


And another nice one:

"(...)Apple Mac desktops, notebooks top PC Magazine’s Annual Reader Satisfaction survey - again

"The similarities are almost eerie. This year, readers gave us the lowdown on over 13,000 desktop PCs—enough data to rate eight of the country's leading brands. And the final tally looks an awful lot like last year's survey results," Cade Metz reports for PC Magazine on "The 19th Annual Reader Satisfaction Survey."

Metz reports, "This year, you diehard PC Mag readers detailed your experiences with nearly 20,000 PCs (notebooks and desktops) and more than 6,500 printers (from mono lasers to color ink jet all-in-ones). And what you say about the leading manufacturers isn't always what we'd expect. No big name is above criticism. (Well, maybe one is, but we're inclined to believe that's due to more than just spiked apple juice.) If you're in the market for a new desktop, notebook, or printer, this report is a must-read."

"Look no further than Apple, the leader of the pack, whose overall score holds steady at 9.1. Last year, Apple's score on units needing repair was an impressive 11 percent—well below that of any other company in the survey. But according to readers, the company has managed to cut repair rates even further over the past 12 months. This year, Apple's score on units needing repair drops to 8 percent. Among first-year systems, it's only 5 percent. That's nothing less than astonishing," Metz reports.

Metz reports, "As we've said in the past, Mac owners are unusually passionate about their machines, and this may have had an effect on the company's unusually high Service and Reliability scores. But the score for percentage needing repair is less subjective than others. Either Apple is doing something right when it comes to quality control, or its restrictive warranty makes people less likely to have their systems repaired."

"Just how satisfied are Mac owners? That 9.1 overall score is significantly better than the average for Windows PCs. And the same can be said of the company's scores for reliability and the likelihood of recommending. It should be noted, however, that Apple's score on technical support is down this year (from 8.4 to 8.1)," Metz reports, "Is that a reflection of Apple's standard warranty, which allows only 90 days of telephone support for software issues? Probably not. Readers say that, among first-year Apple systems, 88 percent of tech support issues are covered by warranty (either Apple's or a third party's)—the highest rate among leading vendors."

Metz reports, "[In notebooks], once again, Apple is at the top. Its overall score, 9.1, is significantly better than the average for Windows notebooks—and a full seven-tenths of a point better than Lenovo's overall score, 8.4. Its scores for reliability (9.2), tech support (8.5), and likelihood of recommending (9.4) are also significantly better than average. Yes, its score on percentage needing repair is merely average, but at 16 percent, it's the lowest of the survey (alongside Sony's 16 percent)."

"Is this a function of that unique passion Apple users have for the company's products? Perhaps. But, again, it's hard to question the number of units needing repair. Among first-year systems, only 7 percent needed repair—2 points better than Sony," Metz reports.(...)"


Full article here:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2006497,00.asp

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: Here we go again...
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 18th Sep 2006 07:00 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Here we go again..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Allright, then. I hope Governa won't mind my intromission

You're a fast learner.

Anyway, Governa got into trouble because of multiple personal atacks against editors of this site. Not just this post, but months of threads. I have been VERY leniant, but at some point, a line is crossed, and then it's end of story.

Other than that, everyone should just get used to the fact that just like any other company, Apple has its problems. If you do not wish to be confronted with these problems, I suggest you stick to MacDailyNews for your Apple 'news'.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Here we go again...
by kernelpanicked on Mon 18th Sep 2006 07:18 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Here we go again..."
kernelpanicked Member since:
2006-02-01

Anyway, Governa got into trouble because of multiple personal atacks against editors of this site. Not just this post, but months of threads. I have been VERY leniant, but at some point, a line is crossed, and then it's end of story.


That in my opinion is a complete BS cop out. Nowhere in governa's post did I see any personal attack against you or anyone else. You abused your position as an editor, in my opinion, and should at least take responsibility for your own actions. Please point out where the attack was.

Here?
I find your articles quite interesting Thom. So my submited news about Apple's new Boot Camp 1.1.1 don't deserve your attention to get published here, but the same old Apple bashing or Microsoft Zune articles are good enough to get all the attention in OS News... I don't get it.

"I find your articles quite interesting." (sarcasm on)Damn that's harsh. Someone oughtta teach this guy a lesson.(sarcasm off)

Maybe it was here?
Go ahead Thom, you may now start your 'Mod Down' bots.


O wait, that's exactly what you did, and what you've done repeatedly in the past.

Hey, I hate Apple probably more than anyone else on this site, but there's no excuse for frying a guy's post merely because you disagree with it.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: Here we go again...
by RandomGuy on Mon 18th Sep 2006 10:26 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Here we go again..."
RandomGuy Member since:
2006-07-30

"Anyway, Governa got into trouble because of multiple personal atacks against editors of this site. Not just this post, but months of threads. I have been VERY leniant, but at some point, a line is crossed, and then it's end of story."

I can see what you mean, Thom.
While I definately liked some of his posts and think some things had to be said, I do not believe things to become any more true by repeating them over and over again.

But it is a really poor attempt to just mod him down instead of addressing the issues.
It might be more convenient now but it will bite you in the long run.

Nothing wrong with dictators as long as they remain benevolent. In order to do that we desperately need a place to discuss about OSNews itself - which has previously been suggested by someone.

I know this is terribly OT but where else should I put it? Email you? No one else would read it and no broad discussion would be possible.

So, please, give us an OSNews-meta forum to discuss things like this.
I don't want to browse this site at -5 just because most criticism is regarded off topic and modded to hell.

That being said I still believe you are somewhat benevolent - otherwise I wouldn't have gone to great lengths to make this post ;-)

On topic:
I have never had a Mac and I won't buy one because I love the freedom to build my own pc of high quality parts and putting in only the things I need.
Couldn't refuse to give this post some final sugar coating ;)

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: Here we go again...
by tpaws on Mon 18th Sep 2006 13:24 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Here we go again..."
tpaws Member since:
2006-06-02

You proved Governa's point quite well. Not long ago, Thom, you posted a number of articles and opinions about MacBooks overheating, and you beat it to death to the point it appeared you were on a vendetta. It didn't matter to you then, and apprently it doesn't matter now that Core Duo notebooks have an industry wide overheating and random shutdown problem. Maybe as an editor you should look into this a bit rather than focusing on Apple. Intel, ASUS, and Sony should bear the focus of your inquisition (probably should throw in Samsung too). This seems to me what Governa is getting at. Is there a problem with Governa posting and referencing very clear facts?

You enjoy posting flamebait "articles" and far too often your response to intelligent comments are often condescending at best.

Reply Score: 2

RE[8]: Here we go again...
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 18th Sep 2006 13:29 UTC in reply to "RE[7]: Here we go again..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Not long ago, Thom, you posted a number of articles and opinions about MacBooks overheating, and you beat it to death to the point it appeared you were on a vendetta.

Can I help it the whole internet was buzzing with people complaining about MacBooks behaving like frying pans? Is that my fault when people submit that sort of links to us? Is it my fault that when me and Adam review our MBPs, we conclude the things get too hot?

Should I just ignore THOSE facts to please the Apple zealots? Because THAT is what you are implying.

Reply Score: 1

RE[9]: Here we go again...
by tpaws on Mon 18th Sep 2006 14:05 UTC in reply to "RE[8]: Here we go again..."
tpaws Member since:
2006-06-02

Grow up Thom. Your anecdotal ramblings are far beneath your position as an editor here.

Apple Zealots? Well, they are what made Apple the quality computer company they are (ref. Governa's post). It is often amazing how much "PC Weenies" put up with. Dell tries to hide their problems, and is suffering badly (I mention Dell because the parent article of this thread is "Apple vs. Dell...")

As an editor you might on occaision search for some appropriate "buzz" yourself. It took me 2 minutes to find the following:

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/notebooks/ontheradar/
http://www.smallbiztechnology.com/notebook/index.shtml
http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/22/asus-w7j-13-3-inch-core-duo-note...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Inspiron#Overheating
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=186003

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Here we go again...
by steve_s on Mon 18th Sep 2006 13:34 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Here we go again..."
steve_s Member since:
2006-01-16

So Apple scores best for reliability - that's nice.

However a 5% rate of (presumably desktop) machines requiring repair in their first year really isn't great, even if it is the best in the industry. The 16% of notebooks requiring repair is very poor...

Whilst the quoted text implies that Apple's quality has gone up, this doesn't fully reflect the Intel transition. At least half of the Apple machines in this survey must have been PowerPC based, and thus very mature designs.

It'll be interesting to see quite how Apple fares next year. The buzz does seem to indicate that the quality of the new Intel-based Apple laptops is significantly lower than the old PowerPC ones...

Reply Score: 1

RE: re: Here we go again...
by BBlalock on Mon 18th Sep 2006 09:19 UTC in reply to "re: Here we go again..."
BBlalock Member since:
2006-01-15

If you've got something to say just say it yourself in your own words and link to the article for whatever support that's needed.

IMHO, cutting and pasting a bunch of stuff from an article and posting it is just plain lazy.

Reply Score: 1

First impressions are everything.
by dilema on Mon 18th Sep 2006 00:34 UTC
dilema
Member since:
2005-07-06

My GF, recently got a macbook from work..
Yellow stains? check. (horribly ugly)
misaligned lid? check.
(it randomly goes in and out of sleep while closed)
random shutdowns? check.
(id love to know why at 160F the fans still dont come on)
chipping paint? check.
defective cd/dvd writer? check.
(it eats cds if even slightly moved)

Yeah it's an f'ing lemon. Too bad she cant afford to sb without a machine for 4 - 5 days or else shed send it in. Bravo Apple.

This is the first mac Ive actually had the oppertunity to play on for a decent amount of time. I'm quite scared to actually buy one now.

Edited 2006-09-18 00:37

Reply Score: 5

rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

That's horrible ;)

There are definitely a higher than average amount of lemons in the MacBook line. Unfortunately, Apple isn't nearly as accepting of exchanges as Dell. Dell monitors, for example, have a pretty high defect rate (you'll probably have to ship at least one back to get a perfect screen), but in the first thirty days, they'll exchange it for any reason, no questions asked. Thus, you're never stuck with a lemon, though exchanging does eat up some time and effort.

For what its worth, I'm in the same boat as some other people who've posted on this list. The MB is the absolute best computer I've ever owned. It's very fast, very stable, and quite durable too. I took mine to do field testing of some radio equipment on a military base. It held up like a champ, despite three weeks of use in the back of vans driving over dirt roads, in the southern VA heat, dust, and humidity. All I had to do afterwards was vacuum the dust out of the keyboard, and it was as good as new. It might as well have just sat in an internet cafe the whole month ;)

Reply Score: 1

salmacis Member since:
2005-07-06

That machine sounds like a lemon. These things happen though. Either send it back for repairs or shut the hell up. You can't have it both ways.

Reply Score: 0

Macintouch Reliability Surveys
by parrotjoe on Mon 18th Sep 2006 01:28 UTC
parrotjoe
Member since:
2005-07-06

People should go over to macintouch.com and look at their reliability surveys. They aren't scientific polls, but they get so many responses that you end up with a pretty good idea of which models have problems and which don't. The all time champ for reliability? The Mac Mini, with a 3% problem/failure rate.Conversely, I think it was the last G4 iBooks and one of the early G5 iMacs that had the worst - about 30% problem/failure rate.

Reply Score: 2

v and again
by Bringbackanonposting on Mon 18th Sep 2006 03:39 UTC
Apple's monopoly
by rx182 on Mon 18th Sep 2006 03:46 UTC
rx182
Member since:
2005-07-08

I know people who have problems with their brand new MacBook (about 30% of the MacBook's owners I know).

Unfortunately, I can't do much for them. I can't tell them to get refund and buy a Dell? Toshiba? Sony? Compaq? They still want OSX running on their system.

So now, more than ever, I realize that locking an operating system to a closed platform is the most stupid idea ever. What happens when your userbase grows faster? And when one of your few product lines has problems? Stupid.

I'm not saying that Apple should unlock OSX for good because it's not their business strategy but they could, at least, make deals with partners to get OSX running on more than a few product lines. Dell's Mac, Sony's Mac, etc.

My 0.02$

Reply Score: 2

Article choices
by tyrione on Mon 18th Sep 2006 03:48 UTC
tyrione
Member since:
2005-11-21

One would think that they get weighed by which companies ADSense gives the owners of this site the most money.

Reply Score: 1

Apple vs Dell ... ?
by WorknMan on Mon 18th Sep 2006 04:42 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

When comparing the reliability of Apple hardware vs PC hardware, why is Apple's hardware always compared against Dell's? Is Dell like the be-all/end-all of PC manufacturers? See, that's the nice thing about PCs ... you can actually buy the PC itself from more than one vendor.

Also, I find out laughable that people are blaming Apple hardware problems on Intel. Throughout the years, I've never had any real problems with either Intel or AMD boards. To be fair, I had to patch an AMD K62 machine to get it working right with Win95, but that's about all.

Reply Score: 2

Re: Here we go again...
by pepa on Mon 18th Sep 2006 04:42 UTC
pepa
Member since:
2005-07-08

Why is it that I cannot mod Governa's post 'Here we go again...' up, or even reply to it?? It's very informative and relevant. Not really offensive towards Thom I would think...

Reply Score: 4

Reputation
by Punktyras on Mon 18th Sep 2006 06:08 UTC
Punktyras
Member since:
2006-01-07

You see naked Paris Hilton in some tabloid. What are your thoughts? „Pff, big deal. Who didn't see it...“
and
You see naked lets say... well... Queen of England. What are your thoughts? „WOW... Holly molly @#%$$...“
Though both of them CAN be naked. And they surely are. At least in bathroom...

And so on and so forth. It is case of reputation I think. You've paid some extra bucks for real thing and you expect it to last till arch. Gabriel's visit ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Reputation
by skingers6894 on Tue 19th Sep 2006 10:25 UTC in reply to "Reputation"
skingers6894 Member since:
2005-08-10

"You see naked lets say... well... Queen of England"

My eyes ahhhhh!!!!!!!

Reply Score: 1

too baaaad
by antik on Mon 18th Sep 2006 06:58 UTC
antik
Member since:
2006-05-19

Welcome to Inteltosh hell!

Reply Score: 0

Richard Dale
Member since:
2005-07-22

I bought the entry level 1.8 GHz MacBook in mid-August for just over 1000 Euros, and I think it's a bargain. I've had none of the heating or other problems described, certainly with Mac OS X. I like the styling, and unlike a say a Dell, it looks as though it has been designed - how much extra is good design worth? I would feel embarrassed carry around something called an 'Inspiron' with the black and silver looks of 70s Hi Fi kit.

The keyboard looks a bit strange with small keys, but works well in practice. The screen is large and bright, and has a camera and microphone at the top. It comes with lots of useful software including great development stuff like XCode and Cocoa. But the top of range black MacBook, doesn't seem such good value - I can't see that 20 Gb more disk space, 10% faster CPUs and writeable DVD drive are worth 400 Euros, or 40% more. The most cost effective upgrade is probably more memory, although I haven't found the standard 512 Mb to be much of a problem, but it would allow my machine to run parallels and have Mac OS X and Linux running at the same time.

I dual boot Kubuntu Dapper, and that seems to run a little hotter than Mac OS X, but I still get over 3 hours of battery life. I can run a big compilation, which seems to occupy one of the CPUs, with the machine being about 60% busy. There is no slowdown when I use other apps- the machine stays responsive. Most things work with Dapper, except suspend and resume - I've seen a fix for that described, but haven't tried it yet.

Reply Score: 2

if you actually read the article
by alcibiades on Mon 18th Sep 2006 07:46 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

If you actually read the article, it's rather positive about Apple in its overall trend. It says there does seem to be some evidence of a problem, how much of one is unclear; that it may be hurting the company, but that Apple is handling it in a fairly reasonable way. It goes on to contrast the way Apple handles these things with the way Dell does, and this section, and the supplied link, is also to Apple's advantage.

I have no idea whether the article is right or wrong. What I do know is that to react to the mere linking to such an article with a chorus of abuse and accusations of bias is wrong. It is clear that there are some people for whom linking to any article, however positive, which is not 100% laudatory of Apple is evidence of bias.

This sort of behaviour is alas most reminiscent of a certain kind of religious fanaticism. As William Rees Mogg recently pointed out, giving offence is one thing. Taking it on every possible occasion on the slightest pretext is quite another thing. Taking offence in this way is simply an effort to suppress all other points of view. That is what is going on here.

As usual, I will conclude by making the point that such behaviour probably costs Apple far more sales than whatever the hardware problems may be. Why then do people who think of themselves as Apple advocates continue to do it?

Edited 2006-09-18 07:47

Reply Score: 5

apple
by happycamper on Mon 18th Sep 2006 10:52 UTC
happycamper
Member since:
2006-01-01

I have always liked apple's notebooks and i was seriously
thinking about buying the new macbook, but i think i should wait until apple works out some of the bugs.

Reply Score: 1

RE: various
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 18th Sep 2006 13:26 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Please point out where the attack was.

Just browse a little through the guy's posting history, and you'll know. This specific comment was the drop that spilled the bucket, as we Dutch say. There was little need to mod it down; however, when I ban someone for repeated offences, the comment I banned via (there's a ban button beneath a comment for us mods) the comment gets -5; this is andled in the backend and not really my fault.

But it is a really poor attempt to just mod him down instead of addressing the issues.

See above.


I have no idea whether the article is right or wrong. What I do know is that to react to the mere linking to such an article with a chorus of abuse and accusations of bias is wrong. It is clear that there are some people for whom linking to any article, however positive, which is not 100% laudatory of Apple is evidence of bias.


Exactly. And THAT behavour we do not tolerate. Accusing an editor of bias is a personal attack in our book, as simple as that.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: various
by altair on Mon 18th Sep 2006 22:02 UTC in reply to "RE: various"
altair Member since:
2005-07-06

Just browse a little through the guy's posting history, and you'll know. This specific comment was the drop that spilled the bucket, as we Dutch say. There was little need to mod it down; however, when I ban someone for repeated offences, the comment I banned via (there's a ban button beneath a comment for us mods) the comment gets -5; this is andled in the backend and not really my fault.

So somebody with a rating of over 2.0 (after your -5 bomb) is considered to be a troll worth banning? Thom, please calm down with this auto -5 stuff.

Reply Score: 2