The launch of Microsoft's new Vista operating system has been a long time coming. Missing the important pre-Christmas slot earned the software company a lot of criticism from partners and customers but Microsoft has committed to shipping the OS in January. But now some analysts claim that a number of 'events' in the IT industry have made it more likely that Microsoft may delay the launch of Vista again until at least May next year. The reservations hinge around a research note, 'Events aligning to make Vista delay more likely', published by analyst Gartner late last week, and take in market, political and industry issues that the researcher believes are beginning to stack up.
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2005-07-07
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2006-03-10
I always thought the criticism MS takes over missed Windows deadlines is just a big dog and pony show put on by the press.
If Vista slips...so what? MS is competing in a market segment of *1*.
Sensationalism and News Media go hand in hand.
If MS were locked in a battle for the desktop in the spirit of, say, SONY and Toshiba a la Blue Ray vs. HDD, or Plasma vs. LCD, then it would warrant heads rolling at MS...cuz it would be 'do or die'.
But it isn't that way at all.
I'm looking forward to Vista...all real OS enthusiasts are.
Edited 2006-09-20 17:56
Member since:2005-07-06
I'll agree that it's a relatively minor thing for Vista to keep slipping, at least as far as Joe User is concerned. OEMs and enterprise customers may have a different take on that one.
And little things do start to add up eventually.
Allowing this sort of thing to go unchecked will come back to bite them in the long run.
Edited 2006-09-20 18:15
Member since:2006-01-06
Member since:2005-10-02
Hmm.. and what if real OS enthusiasts don't consider Vista worth waiting for? Does that make them less "real OS enthusiasts" ?
Vista has nothing that other OS'es haven't already, perhaps for the extremely annoying protection scheme 
(Gnome however, has a lot of empty error messages - that's more or less equally "useful").
If Vista keeps slipping it will give more space to competitors in the long run. When Windows95 was released "real" OS enthusiasts made fun of me for running OS/2 because "Win95 was so much better"... so I don't give much for "real" enthusiasts.
Member since:
2005-07-22
Most people don't know about Vista or don't care. Only technological inclined ones would be so excited. PC's around already have XP, and work mostly fine for all (except for me and other Linux/BSD guys). So new computers being shipped are going to have Windows XP, that people will pay for. If they delay Vista, they will keep making money off XP and then they will get more money when people upgrade to Vista. *If* people ever upgrade to Vista after they buy a new PC.
So, Vista delayed or not, who cares? It will ship someday. It would be a better bet to delay it further, until it's really finished and drivers are properly implemented, and new applications coded to work for Vista. Vista by itself is a little insignificant.
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2005-07-06
Member since:2005-11-11
// Just get it right... And I don't care when it ships.//
They already haven't got it right. DRM, WGA and similar.
In one sense I too don't care when it ships, because I personally am not going to get it.
However, I do care when it ships in the sense that I will have to deal with it once the end users (most of whom don't see a choice in the matter) start having to use it. Oh misery.
Member since:
2005-07-06
Off Topic
I might be the only one but i am getting really tired
of all these Vista articles. There is so much OS news out there at the moment. Why not post some of that instead of 5 Vista articles a day?
No i do not hate MS or Windows or Vista but enough is enough..what if somebody else thinks they (ms) publish it (vista) in june? again an article?
Edited 2006-09-20 18:48
Member since:2005-04-01
There is so much OS news out there at the moment. Why not post some of that instead of 5 Vista articles a day?
Make ya a deal: you submit the news, we'll publish it.
This is what people come here for. If something significant happens in the alternative OS world (something beyond, say, a minor distribution updating their -devel tree's Xorg by .1), we try to report on it.
Member since:
2006-01-16
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2005-07-07
I'm sorry but I think this is slowly becoming the "Duke Nukem Forever" product of the 21st century. How much longer do we have to wait? I'm for quality assurance and fine tuning and all but please. Let's get it together and get this out before the next Windows version is out (which some oddsmakers have at 2010 or 2011).
Member since:2006-06-08
/side-note:
I was talking today with a Microsoft recruiter who happens to work on Vista. We got into a conversation about RC1 and the UAC and how it was my belief they still need to find ways of relaxing it.
In short, if the UAC as of RC1 bothers you, the words from this Vista programmer/recruiter is:
"We have no plans of changing UAC"
I suppose, granted you can just turn it off all together, but o'well.
----
In article related news:
I will mimic everyone's expressions thus far, in that, I don't really mind when it is done, as long as they continually improve it and make sure they have a near-bug free release at launch with working drivers.
Member since:2005-07-06
THe problems you're experiencing have to do with applications not properly written or having requesting more privilages than what one would deem necessary to complete a said operation.
Its about time application vendors actually put their programmers to do some good use, audit their code, and make it multi-user compatible to the point that it can run in the most restrictive of modes that Microsoft makes available under Windows.
Member since:2005-07-06
Outside of the absolute unlikeliness of a recruiter programmer (think about it), why would you want to turn UAC off?
You can't have it both ways. Want a secure system? Then UAC is what you need. Want an easy to use system? Learn to use UAC or turn it off and lose the protection.
Sometimes, I shake my head..
Member since:2006-08-09
>> I'm sorry but I think this is slowly becoming the "Duke Nukem Forever" product of the 21st century. How much longer do we have to wait? <<
I hope not too long, after all, the 21st century can't really take off before Revolutionary Vista's out, can it? 
BTW, are you the only one that hasn't heard that Duke Nukem Forever has already been out for years?
You see, the Illuminati Lizard People kept it for themselves to show it off on their own planet.
They've even got Vista's source code...
;)
Member since:2005-08-27
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2005-12-27
Member since:2006-03-10
Hmm, so I'm not a real OS enthusiast, I think then. I don't even care about them. I'm a proud Linux user. And a proud real OS man.
Sounds to me like what you really are is a closed minded zealot as evidenced by your use of the word 'them'.
I don't care about 'them', either. I am, however, interested in their OS.
Member since:2006-02-10
Member since:2005-07-27
Member since:
2005-07-21
So what if it slips. Who really cares.
The majority of the IT Market has to wait, even if Microsoft delays until 2008 or 2009. You either wait or you switch to some alternative.
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Member since:2006-04-21
Member since:
2006-07-16
"I'm looking forward to Vista...all real OS enthusiasts are."
Umm, no they're not. Real OS enthusiasts spend their time exploring and learning other OS's. (Hence the term "OS enthusiast".) I don't use Windows unless it's unavoidable, preferring UNIX (and its workalikes). As one who has worked with and compared a great deal of computer Operating Systems over the years Windows fails to impress me. Whether they release the thing ontime or delay it yet again makes no difference to me.
Member since:2006-03-10
Umm, no they're not. Real OS enthusiasts spend their time exploring and learning other OS's. (Hence the term "OS enthusiast".) I don't use Windows unless it's unavoidable, preferring UNIX (and its workalikes).
What does 'exploring' have to do with 'preferring'.
If you prefer, say FreeBSD, that's fine.
But there's nothing wrong with *exploring* the new offerings of others.
Because you prefex UNIX and it's variants...I guess you wouldn't be interested in something like BeOS?
If that's the case, then I'd have to say I'm sorry for you.
To me, are real enthusiast in any walk of life is interested in any offering of their field of interest.
Guys like you are just politicizing...which to an engineer like myself is really uninteresting.
Member since:2005-10-02
The funny thing is you are the politician in this thread, claiming (or at least) assuming Vista (when it is released) will have something worth investigating. It would have been somewhat interesting had it been released two years ago, but already know Vista is trailing behind. And it hasn't even been released yet.
If you really care about OS'es you'll dig muuuuch deeper than the surface. Go back in time, and see what you can find. Go outside the main stream and see what pops up.
For me the main stream OS'es have little interest - they are all alike in the end.
Member since:2005-11-11
//Guys like you are just politicizing...which to an engineer like myself is really uninteresting.//
I am an engineer also. What I find interesting is: (1) how something works, (2) how well it works, (3) how well it serves the people who use it, (4) how well it works with other systems, and (5) how susceptible or otherwise it is to breakage in normal use, and how easy it is to maintain.
Windows loses out badly on all counts in comparison to open source OSes.
In areas 1 (due to being closed source) and 3&5 (due to DRM, WGA and susceptibility to malware) Windows is utterly hopeless.
In area (4), Windows is actively designed to not work.
Edited 2006-09-20 23:28
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2006-04-11
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2005-06-29
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2006-07-04
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2005-07-11
...if Vista is being delayed YET again.
I think we will have another article on this site tomorrow from a spokesperson at MS stating quite clearly that everything is rosey and fine and that Vista will be out in January as stated earlier.
If this delay until Easter is true, then MS seriously needs to get hold of some new managers in dev. For a project slated to be done in 2004 with soooo many "cool" new features, then to have a lot of those stripped away and still have trouble getting into early 2007, there is something seriously going wrong.
Anyway, lets see what is posted here in a day or two :-) Maybe MS just want to release Vista "after" Leopard :-)
Member since:
2005-11-05
This whole article is full of "may" and "could" - in other words, a guess based on rumour and nothing more.
What is made perhaps a little clearer is that if Microsoft do delay Vista, then they are quite likely to blame it on the pesky EU for having the temerity to suggest that Microsoft can't ignore Europe's trading laws just because, well, because they are Microsoft. Not that it matters a great deal to the vast majority of happy WinXP users. As Gartner themselves say at the end of the article, "we remain sceptical of Vista's impact".
Edited 2006-09-20 21:02
Member since:
2006-09-20
After reading about Vista for the last 2 years ive made a genuine attempt to switch most of my stuff to Linux. Over the years ive tried Linux on and off and had mixed results (mostly hardware compatibility problems). Im at the stage now where im comfortable and proficient with Linux. Im not an average user tho-had many years experience installing and configuring various operating systems and i generally prefer using the command line and editing text files by hand (i use Slackware). I think MS are just insane-making thier OS more and more complex and putting more and more restrictions on what the user can do in the name of piracy protection. I also dont like the way they add more crap to try and fix security problems that should be fixed by removing unneeded crap. They have actively encouraged users to run everything as administrator and wonder why its so easy for viruses,malware and spyware to get on a windows system. Its also a social problem. Most users dont want to have to log out and log in as adminuistrator to install something. Most users are annoyed if they have to enter a password to install something. Its also the fault of many software developers who dont make thier programs work properly when people are running thier systems as an ordinary user.
Anyway i have 1 windows machine now and 2 Linux machines and im hoping that i can avoid Vista.
My 2 cents
Member since:
2006-01-10
Amiga OS4 was delayed again for unknown circumstances.... Well, ok, it may as well be the same thing. I mean we just keep hearing the same thing over and over. It's delayed, etc.
My thoughts on part of the MS problem is that they are simply too big to be effective as a development house.
Look at SkyOS, granted it's coming along at a snail's pace, but it's mostly just programmed by ONE guy. Yet look at the huge leaps and bounds *nix has jumping in the past years. Think about how large of a project Debian is, and consider the flame wars that are always going on in the mail lists for that project, which is fully open. Now think about how many egos at Microsoft are getting in the way of good coding.
Having worked in IT before, and seen some of the ways development can happen, half the time the management says they want something and the coders themselves just stare at them like they're insane, but of course can't say they're nuts because they'd lose their jobs, so they attempt to do some of the things Management would like, then Management turns around and changes their mind, so they have to scrap their code and start over.
Vista delaying to me really doesn't matter either, as others have said. I wouldn't even use it if Steve Ballmer came to my door and offered it to me in a box tied with a red ribbon. I'd probably just hand him an Ubuntu CD and then he'd probably throw a chair at me. But secretly we know he'd go home and try it out...
I guess you could call me an OS enthusiast. I've used everything from AtariDos, GEOS, Amiga Workbench, Atari TOS/GEM, Mac OS, Many Linux distributions starting with RedHat 4.2 and Debian 1.3 and Windows from 3.1 on up.
Member since:2006-04-21
AmigaOS keeps getting delayed because it's now developed by a clutch of small companies with varying (though seemingly never more than "not much") interest in the platform.
Vista keeps getting delayed because MS keep having problems with it. Arguably it's the opposite problem to the one with AmigaOS - perhaps the project is too big, or the company, or both. I'd say both, myself. I think the problem of MS being too big comes from having too many fingers in too many pies, a problem big companies often fall prey to and then have to scale back. And making Vista compatible with just about every API ever included in Windows (or developed by MS since '81, for 32-bit systems) is just making Windows too big. Just think how much data you could store in the 13 gigs of space you're going to lose in Vista added to the 2 of XP.
Member since:
2005-07-06
I'm sick and tired of Gartner deciding when Vista is going to ship. This is at least the 3rd article I've seen in as many months where Gartner is deciding when MS will ship one of their products.
Gartner seems to be fishing for attention lately. These "analyst" firms drive me absolutely crazy with their FUD-dy assumptions.
Member since:
2006-01-02
"I'm looking forward to Vista...all real OS enthusiasts are."
So shelling out more money is what you're looking forward and you consider that an enthusiasm.
I don't get it, sorry.
I've spend thousand of $$$ for OS-es Redmond coders use to recycle every couple years which made
me stupid fool who abandoned all selfrespect and freedom enthusiastically collecting stacks of vaporware installation CDs and manuals I can't use anymore.
Remember enthusiasm evaporates with your money !
Member since:
2006-07-16
"What does 'exploring' have to do with 'preferring'.
If you prefer, say FreeBSD, that's fine.
But there's nothing wrong with *exploring* the new offerings of others.
Because you prefex UNIX and it's variants...I guess you wouldn't be interested in something like BeOS?
If that's the case, then I'd have to say I'm sorry for you.
To me, are real enthusiast in any walk of life is interested in any offering of their field of interest.
Guys like you are just politicizing...which to an engineer like myself is really uninteresting."
Where on Earth did you get this out of my post???
As an Operating System enthusiast, i've explored EVERY sort of OS, including BeOS, OS/2, AmigaOS, CP/M...you name it. By 'explore' I mean, install, look around, see what the OS can do...in short, USE IT! I'll do the same with Windows Vista WHEN it's finally here. My comment was only to say that as an OS enthusiast, I place no more importance on Vista's release than I do the next version of Ubuntu, FreeBSD, Solaris or any OS. The reason I prefer UNIX (especially Linux, an excellent UNIX workalike) is that it does more of the things I want an OS to do. Notice I said that "it does what I want it to do". I'm not speaking for you or anyone else. And, on top of that it's FREE and here today. Windows has failed to fit the bill for me for years. In fact, in light of the rapid pace of the open source community, Vista is already obsolete. Sorry if you misunderstood what I posted.
Edited 2006-09-20 23:29
Member since:
2005-10-11
Member since:
2006-05-11
What? You mean Vista isn't released yet? How come at my local "Centro de computación" they are selling a fancy new "Windows Vista" CD in a pretty case? You can hardly even tell that the CD jacket was printed on an HP Deskjet, and the "Memorex" label on the CD hardly even shows through..... ;-)
Member since:
2006-08-30
Saying that all real OS enthusiasts are waiting for Vista, that's a biased statement. You don't have to like any OS.
Me, I don't mind if Vista slips. Reason being, I am not in too much of a hurry to have my system resources wasted for such unnecessary things such as a 3D desktop and transparency which doesn't even help productivity 1%.
Member since:
2006-02-27
Member since:
2006-03-21
that its being delayed. The longer it is the more time that Linux has to develop and spread in awareness.
Furthermore, as regards to Vista's delay impacting Microsofts "reputation"
1. Microsoft does not have much of a reputation to maintain
2. The world at present has NO choice except to wait as long as MS wants it to. With the sheep-mentality of most people, they will be willing to wait upto 2020 if required and will STILL drool over the various "features" that MS Vista (renamed) maybe while happily using winXP service pack 20 (which by 2020 will probably have to be paid for to download and use).
3. As for businesses, they are already "trained" by the MS marketing machine to expect to pay high prices for a shoddy product so they will also keep waiting as long as it takes.
4. As time goes by the businesses and people with more than 3 brain cells, will realize that they are able to get similar or better functionality with alternative products without being at the mercy of a single vendor and will start using other OS'es with corresponding increase in productivity and profit.
5. Keeping in mind points 1-3 above, it is in MS's interest to keep delaying Vista. With the world using an OS created 5 yrs ago and paying for it each time, it is a simple way to keep generating profits without putting any work in. As PT Barnum said.. theres one born every minute.
Edited 2006-09-21 09:15
Member since:
2005-08-06
Member since:
2005-07-28
I think a delay in Vista - or even further missing features - will simply affect the mood of the guy forking over his money for Vista.
Everyone was all shiny and happy when Windows 95 came out and for good reason - whatever people make of it now, it was a major leap forward for Microsoft products from the 3.1 series. I had been using it in beta, and gladly did the Snoopy dance waiting to buy Windows 95 when it came out. I had never habituated to using Windows 3.x - just didn't provide me anything considering most of the programs I used were DOS anyway, and many didn't work in Windows. So I did the Snoopy dance and embraced Windows 95 at the time because it certainly was a whole lot better than what I'd been using.
Windows 98 - I was markedly less enthusiastic, as were others. But it was something that felt like it "had to be done."
Windows 98SE and ME I can't speak to because I didn't buy them, but I imagine enthusiasm was even less for those.
Then I went to buy Windows 2000 which was a strange thing entirely since I couldn't find it on store shelves anywhere. I was sent over to the business products counter at CompUSA which was like a speakeasy or something. "Hey man, you got 2k?"
"Yeah we got 2K but you don't want it."
"I want the 2K man."
"It's only for business users. You don't want it."
"Gimme the 2K man."
(I have read somewhere that is traditional for converts to Judaism to be refused three times by a Rabbi to prove the convert's sincerity.)
"Nah really, it'll drag you down man. It'll ruin your day. You want Windows 98."
"Gimme the 2K man."
"OK, but it's your neck."
No fanfare, no posters, no advertising - hidden, in fact, like almost sexual shame, behind a counter.
Windows 2K, in hindsight probably marketed that way only to business so they could sell XP soon after, was almost a ghost at first. At least for me. I thought there'd be something on the level of the Win95 launch because, man, this was the Great Switch to NT.
The people at CompUSA were complete idiots of course, buying something management told them hook, line, and sinker, because 2K was just fine for home use. I'm still using it.
XP had a little bit of fanfare but nothing like Windows 95. It spread slowly like moss, as people bought new PCs. People rolled their eyes at it at first - I remember clearly. Like "OMIGOD, I am SO not going to buy Windows XP, like I have nothing better to spend my money on, like that cute skirt I saw at Hot Topic."
So I have to wonder what happened to the Rolling Stones and Start Me Up and Brian Eno - BRIAN ******* ENO - doing the startup sound for an OS.
Vista isn't gonna be like that but I bet people still buy it in droves. Slowly at first, and grumpily, like people lining up and mumbling to themselves in a tainted vodka stupor in a Soviet bread line.
I won't be buying it because I've become one of those annoying Linux users you tire of reading about, but it is true that I am interested. And all but those who lead beautifully perfect sheltered lives should, in fact, be interested.
And the reason? Because it will be unavoidable. Your mom might use it or your spouse. Or your school will only have Vista machines. Or your work. Somewhere, most people (save the blessed) will be forced to use it.
And anyway, you will deal with the security implications no matter what you run - spammers, trojans, botnets, and so on - these affect all of us who are on the internet in some way, shape or form.
So I hope Vista is stable. I hope it is secure. I hope it doesn't crush spirits and eat babies and write unannounced movie spoilers into IMDB comments the way, say, Windows ME did. There will be no shadenfreude if Vista, upon its eventual release, is horrible.
OK maybe a little. But unless you live and work in an environment full of Linux or BSD or Mac goodness (as I am repeatedly assured much of the world outside the Microsoft-enslaved USA does), I think it doesn't make sense to be disinterested - or to feign disinterest, which I think many of the allegedly disinterested are doing.
Like it or not, Vista, like say, migraine headaches, affects ALL of us. Because most of us will love someone who will be a Vista user.
