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If only the FOSS world were that simple.

//Since AIGLX is integrated with Xorg 7.1, once the proprietary Nvidia and ATI drivers support GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, there will be no reason to install Xgl.//

The latest version of drivers from Nvidia (and I think also ATI) do support GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, and there is already no reason to install Xgl.

AFAIK Xorg 7.1 with AIGLX will already work using the latest drivers.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=535&num=1

Edited 2006-09-20 22:57

Didn't you read your link yourself?

Quote:
"One of the prominent additions to X.Org 7.1 was the inclusion of AIGLX, which requires the OpenGL GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap extension. For those NVIDIA users wanting to use AIGLX, you will need to wait for the Linux 1.0-9XXX drivers. ATI had delivered their X.Org v7.1 supported Linux proprietary drivers last month, but likewise they continue to lack the GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap support."

Both nVidia and ATI lack support for this extension in their latest drivers.

You beat me to it. That article says that NVIDIA and ATI drivers now support all the extensions, except GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, and once that has been included in upcoming drivers then they will have full AIGLX support.

//You beat me to it. That article says that NVIDIA and ATI drivers now support all the extensions, except GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, and once that has been included in upcoming drivers then they will have full AIGLX support.//

This does appear to be the case. I just searched for references to nvidia driver and Xorg 7.1.

The artivle originally linked claimed support for Xorg 7.1
"The NVIDIA 1.0-8774 drivers finally deliver on X.Org v7.1 support, XVideo with the Composite X extension when using X.Org v7.1, and improved interaction with newer kernels."

Nvidia themselves claim they support Xorg 7.1

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=973574&postcount=1

... but when you dig deeper, only then do you find that this does not include AIGLX:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=76800

Sorry about that. AIGLX is actually a part of Xorg 7.1, so silly me I just assumed that when they claimed to support Xorg 7.1 that would include AIGLX.

I guess the real question is, if nVidia releases in time for these drivers to be in Edgy, are the Ubuntu team going to re-compile Metacity with the compositing effects on?

nVidia or not, Ubuntu still has to provide a composite manager for us lucky people with hardware supported by Free drivers.

They have a metacity build with the compositor enabled, but it's horribly out of date:
http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/x11/spiftacity

They're also providing compiz packages in universe. At this point even Red Hat is supporting compiz over metacity.

Edited 2006-09-20 22:30

They're also providing compiz packages in universe. At this point even Red Hat is supporting compiz over metacity.

Not quite true. Fedora Core 6 and RHEL 5 provides both metacity and compiz. metacity is the default window manager though you can graphically switch to compiz very easily.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Xorg

I also basically said that. That for Edgy they would need to compile compositing into Metacity. That's the real way that compositing effects are going to make it into a standard install. Not with Compiz. It's going to be through Metacity or Kwin.

ATI gets a bad rap for their linux driver, I know I was sure in that camp after a series of bad experiences 4-5 years ago. But on my work laptop I was pleased to see that on Dapper the free drivers worked alright by default, the proprietary drivers installed easily, and with with the proprietary aticonfig tool I had dual monitors (of different resolutions) working perfectly in a matter of minutes. To the extent where Dapper extends my desktop onto the 2nd monitor at work and seamlessly shrinks onto the single LCD at home with no tweaking required.

I used to really bash ATI for their linux support, but now I'm rather impressed. Of course I don't really care about running games or even 3d apps, so maybe the performance issues are still out there -- but I have no idea since as I said I don't care.

As a laptop owner with an nvidia card all I can say is that the only way ATI's drivers could be worse is if they caused a kernel panic on boot. :/ I can't suspend or hibernate because if I do my GPU fan comes on full blast on resume and doesn't turn off until I reboot. I think the GPU is running at full speed even though I'm just using a stock X desktop (no XGL).

I have an nvidia 6600 go in my laptop, and I close the lid on it all the time and don't have that issue. Though it does get pretty hot if for some reason the air vents for the CPU and/or GPU are covered. (for example when I'm feeling lazy and browsing the net in my bed, and the laptop is laying on my shirt.) I usually try to hold it up in the air.

The problem is not necessarily the nVidia drivers themselves, but could quite possibly be that your ACPI is non-standard and does things strangely.

Leech

ATI gets a bad rap for their linux driver, I know I was sure in that camp after a series of bad experiences 4-5 years ago

They still have a bad rap, and if it was for one thing only, that would be the fact that they have no XvMC support, and I mean none !
When you see that their latest cards boast HD acceleration support, you see just how much functionality you lose when buying these cards on Linux : 3D + video acceleration. Sorry but no, I'd rather go with NVidia then.

"They still have a bad rap, and if it was for one thing only, that would be the fact that they have no XvMC support, and I mean none ! "

See, I don't even know what XvMC is -- whatever it is I don't need it and I'm perfectly happy with my driver as it without it. I realize my preferences are not the same as everyone elses but I see the ATI drivers as more than acceptable for people with non-gaming usage patterns.

>Three cheers for nVidia!

You're joking right?
I had quite a lot of difficulty to install a Kubuntu distribution because X didn't start with the open source driver..
It's not too easy finding what you need to do when you can't start a web browser..
F*** video cards manufacturer with their closed source driver!

... Next time, use (e)links.
I use it to access the 'net (google, nvidia, etc) when I'm head-less.

- Gilboa

Ok, so you're saying that nVidia sucks because X wouldn't start with the open source driver? So otherwise you're saying Ford sucks because your Toyota's transmission failed.

If X didn't start due to something wrong with the nv driver, it has nothing to do with nVidia, in fact, I doubt it has something to do with X.org itself. If you do a fresh install from a Kubuntu CD and your X is not working right off, then more than likely you have an issue either with your hardware (which isn't all too likely) or there is something wrong with the CD that you installed from (more likely).

There of course is also the strong possibility that you're simply a troll. But I at least will give you the benefit of a doubt.

I'm saying that nVidia sucks because they don't provide the specification of their video cards, only a closed source drivers which creates lot of problem in Linux.

I don't have a hardware issue and the CD is fine, everything worked correctly once I used the nvidia driver instead of the nv driver, the nv driver doesn't support correctly my hardware which is nVidia fault: they don't provide the spec.

Oh and before telling me, that Linux's users should use closed-source drivers like Windows users do, remember that Microsoft says that drivers are the cause of 2/3 of the crashes on Windows..

Nvidia's real target are hard core grapthical workstation proffesionals with >$2000 cards in their horses.

They'll eat as much processing power as they can get.

The open-source Nvidia drivers are 2D only -- no 3D support whatsoever. I think they support all Nvidia cards though, as they have a consistant interface for the 2D stuff.

The http://nouveau.sf.net project is working on free 3D support for Nvidia cards.

I was wondering about this not too long ago. It seems that a group is working on some drivers for Mac OS X on x86 that support OpenGL etc on nVidia hardware. http://macvidia.starchaser.org/

I was wondering why this isn't happening more so on the Linux side of things (which obviously it is) not to mention what ever happened to utah-glx? Weren't they already working on developing 3D drivers for linux?

"It is irrelevant whether AIGLX or XGL is used, texture_from_pixmap is equally important for both."

Not true. Xgl doesn't need it. That's why Xgl works on the NVIDIA and ATI proprietary drivers currently, even though they don't provide this extension.

"Direct rendering is a different term. This is not yet supported neither in aiglx nor in xgl as it badly needs a video memory manager and scheduler, and some textures to support redirection of drawable surfaces to back buffers without any knowledge of the app (and probably ways to solve dozens of misc issues).

Maybe turning off aiglx and switching to fullscreen direct rendering when app/game is run will be sufficient for 90% of the GL programs."

I dunno about direct rendering, but you can run 3D-accelerated applications in an X session where AIGLX is running and they will work at full speed with no problems, even windowed. I'm currently running glxgears at 1500fps in a window in my AIGLX-enabled desktop, to prove the point. You can't do this on Xgl. If you want to run 3D-accelerated apps / games while you're running Xgl you have to launch 'em in a separate X server. (Hardware - ATI Radeon 9100IGP, supported by the free ATI drivers).

You can also run them with direct rendering on the same X server, if you choose $DISPLAY wisely. But it is then on top of Xgl and therefor not controlled by a window manager, etc.


Can you tell me wether OGL 2.0 is supported for apps inside AIGLX?

>Not true. Xgl doesn't need it. That's why Xgl works on the NVIDIA and ATI proprietary drivers currently, even though they don't provide this extension.

OK, I formulated it uncorrectly. Yes, AIGLX requires texture_from_pixmap. Xgl has a workaround, but performance is better with texture_from_pixmap (as it allows to render texture directly from pixmap, xgl doesn't have to copy it into another buffer each time it is changed as without this extension - AFAIK).
Xgl also already accelerates Xrender(and few other parts of X protocol?) for example, this is what Glucose layer for Aiglx currently aims, but it is not yet in official Xorg releases. Yes, it makes sense to eventually have all Xgl functionallity end up in Xorg as it is more flexible and reduces duplication in the long term.

>I dunno about direct rendering, but you can run 3D-accelerated applications in an X session where AIGLX is running and they will work at full speed with no problems, even windowed.

Of course, it is indirect rendering and it works well even with Xgl, but it introduces overhead (especially with more high-end OpenGL apps/games). There is a reason that direct rendering exists (which bypasses X server for most of the time and calls GL drivers directly).