Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 9th Oct 2006 20:56 UTC
Zeta "As is the norm (for the most cases) with private software companies, yellowTAB before, and now Magnussoft, have been reserved in commenting what's coming down the road. We know Multi-User is coming and also that GCC4 is part of ZETA's future, but today we're going to bring you a small glimpse in what's coming for ZETA and its users."
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Zeta Update Already "Online"
by nelvana2005 on Mon 9th Oct 2006 22:35 UTC
nelvana2005
Member since:
2005-07-29

Zeta Update has already something like a "home":
http://zetaupdate.com/zeta/
Especially the "About" section is very instructive, because Magnussoft describes here how Zeta Update works and what data the Zeta Updater collects.
But there is no information up to now when this update service will start.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Zeta Update Already "Online"
by ormandj on Mon 9th Oct 2006 22:46 UTC in reply to "Zeta Update Already "Online""
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

Given the past track record, I think "if" might be a more appropriate term to use than "when".

There were some smart people at yT, but it was run by monkies. Magnussoft seems to have the same issues. I don't really see Zeta as going anywhere at this point, too little, too late - all the BeOS enthusiasts have moved onto Haiku now that it is showing signs of going somewhere, and that doesn't leave Zeta with much of a market to sell too (unless they start those silly/borderline false shopping channel ads again...)

Regardless, good luck to them, I hope they can show themselves more capable of running a company than yT management were. I hope Zeta succeeds, as well, as that will benefit Haiku.

Reply Score: 3

Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't really see Zeta as going anywhere at this point, too little, too late - all the BeOS enthusiasts have moved onto Haiku now that it is showing signs of going somewhere, and that doesn't leave Zeta with much of a market to sell too

Ehh..Haiku isn't finished yet. Realistically speaking it won't be as stable and as usable as Zeta is right now for some time to come. Even though they're progressing at an amazing rate, there's still a lot of work to do. That leaves Zeta for the here and now. I don't see people using Haiku as their daily OS yet, but there are people that use Zeta as their daily OS, judging simply by the sheer number of copies sold.

Reply Score: 4

dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Last half of 2007 should be the release date of Haiku R1. Probably around november (or was it september? Or october? I forgot).

Reply Score: 1

tonestone57 Member since:
2005-12-31

True, Haiku R1 is to be released around October 2007.

The thing is that in Oct 2007:
Haiku (will) = BeOS 5.x
Zeta (will) = BeOS 6.x (or BeOS 7.x)(what BeOS would have been had it continued on).

Haiku will be behind Zeta & it'll take another 1-3 years before it catches up to Zeta.

Also keep in mind that any improvements Haiku makes, Zeta benefits too, because yT incorporates Haiku code into Zeta. (ie: So, Zeta could actually stay ahead of Haiku by using Haiku code & also having yT programmers do their own changes, fixes & improvements too).

Reply Score: 2

ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

Something you are failing to keep in mind, Haiku has no "operating expenses" - at least none of the magnitude of paid developers. These companies are run by fools, all the secrecy and hidden agendas (ie. never discussing if they had source or not - that was stupid.)

With that kind of leadership, the money isn't going to be around to keep those devs paid, and when they walk - Zeta dies. It's happened once already, it got scooped up again (and the company seems the same as yT to me) - and it's likely to die again. Zeta isn't marketable right now, it's got a long way to go before it's in a position to be payware as an OS.

All the comments about Haiku not being done yet, etc - yes, that's true. It's also developed by people in their free time, and those people will likely continue working on Haiku as time passes. They aren't doing it for a paycheck.

You just wait, Magnussoft and Zeta are going to fizzle yet *again*, and it may or may not be picked back up the third time around. I'm truly tired of watching horribly run companies totally destroy something that once was/could have been great. That's why Haiku (imho of course) is the only possibility for BeOS to survive in one form or another.

Reply Score: 2

is it really worth it?
by daniel_iversen on Mon 9th Oct 2006 23:22 UTC
daniel_iversen
Member since:
2005-07-16

no ill intention from my side but whats the point of buying or supporting zeta.. i think beos might have been a great operating system but if zeta does (or that new company ) not have the source code is it not all just a big waste of time? while you can make some progress you will never get any real breakthroughs, innovations or large changes made, right?

comments pleas.

Daniel

Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320)

Reply Score: 2

RE: is it really worth it?
by tonestone57 on Tue 10th Oct 2006 00:04 UTC in reply to "is it really worth it?"
tonestone57 Member since:
2005-12-31

yellowTab (yT) never said if they have the source code or not to BeOS. Some people assume yT doesn't have it & others think yT does have it, but no one knows for sure (except for Bernd, CEO of yT).

yT may have access to the source code & pay a licensing fee to Palm OS (my best guess).

yT uses Haiku code (benefit from Haiku developments), plus yT & BeOS code combined to create Zeta. Eventually, yT could remove all BeOS code (& use only yT & Haiku code to create Zeta).

Plus, they are making advancements & enhancements. So, in the end, they are able somehow to improve the OS.

Reply Score: 1

RE: is it really worth it?
by makc on Tue 10th Oct 2006 12:17 UTC in reply to "is it really worth it?"
makc Member since:
2006-01-11

Indeed, without the source they wouldn't have been able to make changes and resell it... ;)

Why support Zeta/Haiku? Because you like it and think it can have a future as enjoyable media and home system.

### about legal issues ###

IIRC: Palm owns the BeOS code (they really wanted the engineers, but that's another story), and yT got a licence for continuing the development.

yT being the legal owner of the license, the new investor Magnussoft is presented as exclusive distributor and not as the new developer.
That would take some risks out for Magnussoft and lets the development going on under a different label which has the needed expertise.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: is it really worth it?
by sogabe on Tue 10th Oct 2006 15:40 UTC in reply to "RE: is it really worth it?"
sogabe Member since:
2006-04-27

> yT being the legal owner of the license...

But didn't yT go bankrupt? How can anybody (other than the original IP owners) legally develop/sell ZETA then, if the company that had the license went bust?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: is it really worth it?
by makc on Tue 10th Oct 2006 17:15 UTC in reply to "RE: is it really worth it?"
makc Member since:
2006-01-11

AFAIK they're under bankrupt protection, not bankrupt yet. So I think it's admissible to let development go on funded by Magnussoft.

If the licence is not transferrable (likely) I feel, but this is highly speculative, that yT will become some kind of 'consultant developer' for Magnussoft (which declared already that the development of Zeta will go on, but not in house).

I think it's a good solution for everyone. yT solves some financial problems and gets a bigger distribution channel. Magnussoft a new, visible product which can be developed from their side with economical parameters (read: reduce risks).

IMVHO of course.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: is it really worth it?
by sogabe on Tue 10th Oct 2006 19:00 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: is it really worth it?"
sogabe Member since:
2006-04-27

> I think it's a good solution for everyone.

Is it? I wonder if the devs, contractors and others who were most likely badly hurt by yT's misadventures agree with you.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: is it really worth it?
by makc on Wed 11th Oct 2006 14:00 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: is it really worth it?"
makc Member since:
2006-01-11

would have been better if they disbanded without paying salaries, innit? ;)

Reply Score: 1

Frustrated
by DFergATL on Tue 10th Oct 2006 03:30 UTC
DFergATL
Member since:
2006-02-09

Words cannot even come close to saying how frustrating it is to be a Zeta user. I like the OS but would never recomned it to anyone, that just based on their customer service. Or, more correctly, lack of it.

Reply Score: 1

Expensive?
by Xaero_Vincent on Tue 10th Oct 2006 04:17 UTC
Xaero_Vincent
Member since:
2006-08-18

Now I dont want to start a flame here but what does Zeta (BeOS) have to make it's $100 price tag worth paying? Especially since we can get Windows XP Pro and MacOS X 10.4 for about that price online.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Expensive?
by Mage66 on Tue 10th Oct 2006 05:56 UTC in reply to "Expensive?"
Mage66 Member since:
2005-07-11

I agree.

Zeta needs to be priced at around $49 with 90 day limited tech support, and make incidents after that a small charge and free via a forum.

Zeta just can't charge the same money as Vista, XP or MacOS X. It's not worth it.

As a play OS, $49 is a good price.

These guys have to figure out the simple marketing idea of selling quantity... Sell more, and make more money.

A higher price means they'll sell less.

If Zeta 1.0 had been priced at $49 when it came out, I would have bought it years ago... At $119, it was priced way too high for me to justify it.

They never seemed to figure this out...

I didn't pay $100 for BeOS 4.5 or 5.0... Why would I pay $100 for Zeta???

Reply Score: 4

i feel awkward
by nivenh on Tue 10th Oct 2006 04:28 UTC
nivenh
Member since:
2005-07-06

i loved the beos look/feel, and despite any improvements under the hood...

Zeta.. visually.. looks like shit.

its painfully obvious which gui's Be did, and which ones the people at yT have had their hands in.

Reply Score: 3

Booooring
by electr0n on Tue 10th Oct 2006 05:18 UTC
electr0n
Member since:
2006-10-10

This is so boring. Who in the world is interested in stuff like preferences or how an automated software update (other OS had that for years) looks like. It seems that those folks don't have anything interesting to show or to talk about.
I knew BeOS and it actually looked fine back in the late 90s. But ZETA, well, looks as boring as those "brilliant" preference pa(i)nes.

Reply Score: 2

Wrong priorities?
by sogabe on Tue 10th Oct 2006 05:47 UTC
sogabe
Member since:
2006-04-27

yellowtab changed the preferences a zillion times. Why don't they spend their limited resources on things that can be more meaningful to users instead, like the ability to print from Firefox, support for more chipsets, more audio/video codecs, ACPI, JAVA, etc.?

The ability to install ZETA on more hardware, to fully take advantage of the hardware (ie., modern CPU features, energy saving on laptops, etc.), to print from a browser, or to run JAVA/Flash apps will win them more customers than superficial changes such as endlessly changing the preferences, or adding eye-candy to the Terminal.

Looks like they have the wrong priorities.

Reply Score: 5

I Just dont want it.
by testadura on Tue 10th Oct 2006 07:56 UTC
testadura
Member since:
2006-04-14

Somehow Zeta gives me a bad feeling.... I don't want it, and don't want to try it either. Yellowtab and now Magnussoft are such obscure companies. Everything(!) is vague and leaves us to guess.... About the licencing of the source code and now about the transfer from yT to Magnussoft. I will continue to use R5 untill Haiku is finished en I am sure that those $100 is better spent on donating to the haiku project, than on a copy of Zeta.
Everyone who considers buying Zeta, should donate to Haiku instead.... In the long run it will pay off!

PS. And I also dislike the idea that Magnussoft will use Haikucode in Zeta. Somehow this feels unfair.

Reply Score: 5

Booted the live CD ...
by deb2006 on Tue 10th Oct 2006 08:27 UTC
deb2006
Member since:
2006-06-26

... didn't even start to boot. Well, on with life.

Reply Score: 1

Time table
by mphipps on Tue 10th Oct 2006 14:00 UTC
mphipps
Member since:
2006-08-21

I am continually surprised by people posting dates on when Haiku will be finished. There is no promised date, no projected date, just "when it's done". We don't even have such a thing internally.

As for being behind Vista, Zeta, OS X, Plan 9, whatever, it is all about tradeoffs and choices. It depends on what you care about. In some ways, Haiku will be far ahead of where BeOS was (video drivers support, USB support, large memory support, GUI layout). We are not looking to make big infrastructure changes at this time so that we can get R1 out. But we will be so far ahead of R5 in machines that you can run on and networking performance/portability that I don't think that the comparison is fair anymore.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Time table
by tonestone57 on Tue 10th Oct 2006 15:31 UTC in reply to "Time table"
tonestone57 Member since:
2005-12-31

The projected finish date of Haiku is posted on Haiku OS website. The date is an estimate of when the OS will likely be ready for use. BUT, Haiku itself may be ready sooner or later than Oct 15, 2007.

MILESTONE R1:
http://haiku-os.org/trac/roadmap

Haiku R1 will be more advanced & improved in some ways compared to BeOS 5.03, but it'll still be fairly close to BeOS 5 overall. (ie: Haiku R1 will be an improved version of BeOS 5). Though that will change with Haiku R2 release, & the following releases to come afterwards, which will have more notable differences, fixes & better performance.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Time table
by andrewg on Tue 10th Oct 2006 15:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Time table"
andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

It sounds like you are telling the project leader about the project he leads ;)

I think he has a good idea already or Haiku is in a lot of trouble!

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Time table
by tonestone57 on Wed 11th Oct 2006 00:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Time table"
tonestone57 Member since:
2005-12-31

Maybe they left him out of the loop? :-)

That date was posted on Haiku OS site, so I thought it was Haiku's projected completion date for R1.

But yes, technically speaking, it is still somewhat too early to determine the actually release date. For now, I'll assume Oct 2007, until the roadmap is updated on the Haiku website.

Reply Score: 1

Selfish
by Valhalla on Tue 10th Oct 2006 15:33 UTC
Valhalla
Member since:
2006-01-24

being selfish here, my only interest in Zeta progressing is in the upcoming ports of the gcc 4.x toolchain and open office, since they will benefit me as a Beos/Haiku user aswell. and for that reason I'm happy Magnussoft picked up the distribution.

as for Zeta using Haiku code. the Haiku project PICKED the MIT licence knowing full and well that their code could be used in other closed source projects and were obviously ok with this. let's respect their choice, and the rights of Zeta/SkyOS etc to use this code in their closed projects. if the Haiku developers didn't want to allow this, they would have chosen another license.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Selfish
by tonestone57 on Wed 11th Oct 2006 01:05 UTC in reply to "Selfish"
tonestone57 Member since:
2005-12-31

Well, then you won't be happy to hear that Open Office was dropped by yT (& same goes for Magnassoft). Too time consuming a project to do.

There was mention of an arrangement to get a 3rd party Office Suite ported, but no other news or info was released.

It is also rumored that 1 or 2 other companies may make an Office Suite for Zeta - but nothing for sure.

I believe Haiku already has gcc4 (Check Changelog for proof).
http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/haiku/buildtools/trunk/gcc/

gcc2.95 was moved to Legacy. Previously I thought R1 would be compiled with gcc2.95, but now I'm not sure and believe Haiku R1 may instead be with gcc4 (too early to know for sure).

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Selfish
by SomeBugs on Wed 11th Oct 2006 08:17 UTC in reply to "RE: Selfish"
SomeBugs Member since:
2006-04-28

I think they still use gcc 2.95 (needed for binary compatibility). But they compile also with gcc 4 to be sure it will work ok when they change the default compiler in the future.

Reply Score: 1