Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 13th Oct 2006 14:12 UTC
Internet Explorer Recent high-profile security problems with Internet Explorer have done little to dent its market share - or maybe not, according to conflicting reports on web browser use. Web analytics firm OneStat.com reckons that IE's global usage share is 85.85 per cent, an increase of 2.8 per cent since July 2006. Mozilla Firefox's open source browser claims second place with a share of 11.49 per cent, a decrease of 1.44 per cent since July 2006. Apple's Safari claimed 1.61 per cent (down 0.23 per cent), and Opera held 0.69 per cent of the market. However, statistics from websites tools firm Net Applications, cited by Ars Technica, paint a contrasting picture.
Order by: Score:
FTM
by smitty_one_each on Fri 13th Oct 2006 14:52 UTC
smitty_one_each
Member since:
2005-07-07

Follow the money

Reply Score: 5

RE: FTM
by TomB7 on Fri 13th Oct 2006 15:14 UTC in reply to "FTM"
TomB7 Member since:
2006-01-03

Very astute. I thought those web stat firms were simply incompetant. Your explanation makes way more sense.

Reply Score: 2

Opera 0.69%?
by Joe User on Fri 13th Oct 2006 15:21 UTC
Joe User
Member since:
2005-06-29

I doubt. I operate several web sites and Opera has between 2 to 10%.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Opera 0.69%?
by Kroc on Fri 13th Oct 2006 16:07 UTC in reply to "Opera 0.69%?"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

What type of website though? I run a website for totally non-technical people mainly in the EEC, and Opera usage is at 0.8% (KHTML is 3% and Gecko 13%)

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Opera 0.69%?
by cfaak on Fri 13th Oct 2006 18:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Opera 0.69%?"
cfaak Member since:
2006-07-13

The reason your site may be reporting a low Opera count is that Opera reports itself as IE on Windows XP - reguardless of the platform. If your users are non-tech then you can besure that they have not changed this - default setting so if you site is just taking the reported user agent IDs of your vistitors - I would guess that you see most of the Opera users as IE on XP.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Opera 0.69%?
by Kroc on Fri 13th Oct 2006 18:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Opera 0.69%?"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I wrote the sniffer myself, it detects a large number of different browsers, and can detect opera, even when it's spoofing. My Opera usage figure is accurate. I have Opera v5-v9 installed and about ten other browsers installed for this purpose.

(edit: missed 'have')

Edited 2006-10-13 18:56

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Opera 0.69%?
by aliquis on Sun 15th Oct 2006 01:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Opera 0.69%?"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

I think the default for Opera have been to show Opera for quite some time now.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Opera 0.69%?
by Joe User on Fri 13th Oct 2006 19:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Opera 0.69%?"
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

There's a political web site, a regional health web site and a law portal.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Opera 0.69%?
by mormon on Sat 14th Oct 2006 08:38 UTC in reply to "Opera 0.69%?"
mormon Member since:
2005-08-13

I think opera has more users. The problem, in estimation of market share of opera, is that, opera presents itself as Internet Explorer by default.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Opera 0.69%?
by sappyvcv on Sat 14th Oct 2006 13:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Opera 0.69%?"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

It pretends to be IE to fool basic user agent checks, but "Opera" is STILL IN THE USER AGENT STRING. And almost all stats apps now check for that.

However, Opera 9 DOES let you completely mask as IE or Mozilla. But it is not a default.

Reply Score: 1

v Wow it took them 5 months to fix it
by stephanem on Fri 13th Oct 2006 15:22 UTC
ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

Yep. After all, if one doesn't care much about RMS, tabs and nightly builds why would one need to change app?

Reply Score: 1

alisonken1 Member since:
2006-03-20

Out of curiosity, what are you replying to? I saw no mention of security fixes in the articles.

Reply Score: 4

gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

Trolls don't -really- need a reason to start mumbling, do they?

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 1

scary stuff
by 0xbadbeef on Fri 13th Oct 2006 15:35 UTC
0xbadbeef
Member since:
2005-11-12

Ha, it hurts to think that the majority of internet users are either dumb enough or careless enough to still use the piece of security bugware called IE. This is a truly scary story, just what we need for Friday 13.

Reply Score: 5

RE: scary stuff
by pandronic on Sat 14th Oct 2006 08:21 UTC in reply to "scary stuff"
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

Well, the 10% that did switch knew a little bit more about computers ... the rest are just too ignorant about what a browser is, or about security, or about anything related to computers. Let's face it: the vast majority of people are computer illiterate, but I wouldn't call them stupid - I know a lot of smart people that couldn't care less about computers and use them from time to time just out of necesity.

Reply Score: 2

holidays maybe?
by Darkelve on Fri 13th Oct 2006 15:38 UTC
Darkelve
Member since:
2006-02-06

oops... nevermind... completely got the dates wrong <shame>

Edited 2006-10-13 15:40

Reply Score: 1

This is randomness but...
by Tuishimi on Fri 13th Oct 2006 17:11 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

I would take Ars Technica's figures over WebAnalytics.

I find it difficult to believe that fewer people are using Firefox/Mozilla... Once people where I work started discovering Firefox (developers anyway), the immediately began switching over. The variety of plugins available (especially to aid in development) are just handy and the browser renders well and quickly. It's more configurable... etc.

IE has barely changed in a decade.

Reply Score: 3

RE: This is randomness but...
by rjamorim on Fri 13th Oct 2006 23:04 UTC in reply to "This is randomness but..."
rjamorim Member since:
2005-12-05

I find it difficult to believe that fewer people are using Firefox/Mozilla... Once people where I work started discovering Firefox (developers anyway), the immediately began switching over.

I think one factor that leads people to switch back to IE is the enormous amount of broken and uncompliant sites out there that only work properly on IE. My internet banking site is just like that.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: This is randomness but...
by hal2k1 on Sat 14th Oct 2006 07:47 UTC in reply to "RE: This is randomness but..."
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

//... sites out there that only work properly on IE. My internet banking site is just like that.//

Heavens above!

Internet banking is the very last thing you want to be doing if you are running IE.

Personally, I would only use my Banks Internet banking when I found it worked perfectly using Firefox on Linux if I spoofed the useragent. The bank was lying about "requires IE".

I let the bank know all about this. Since the banks terms & conditions said that if I was to use their Internet banking, I was responsible keep my system secure ... I let them know also that in order to do that I couldn't use IE.

Eventually (in the face of approx 20% of their customer using firefox) they gave in. Their site now "officially" supports Firefox (even though it unoficially did so all along).

Edited 2006-10-14 07:52

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: This is randomness but...
by sappyvcv on Sat 14th Oct 2006 13:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: This is randomness but..."
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

You don't trust your banks website? Ha ha, that's pretty funny.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: This is randomness but...
by hal2k1 on Sat 14th Oct 2006 14:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: This is randomness but..."
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

You trust IE & Windows to use when you visit your bank site and enter your passwords? To get access to your own money?

Windows of the keylogger & other spyware/malware fame?

Hahahaha thats incredibly funny.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: This is randomness but...
by sappyvcv on Sat 14th Oct 2006 14:59 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: This is randomness but..."
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

No, you said IE. What difference does the browser make when you're visiting a TRUSTED site but have a keylogger or other malware?

I trust Windows to use when visting my bank site because I know what is on my machine. I only use IE to visit trusted sites and I don't run executables unless they are trusted.

It's only "incredible funny" because you are unable to fathom that some people aren't as incompetent as you when it comes to windows.

Anyway, carry on with your vendetta.

Edited 2006-10-14 15:03

Reply Score: 1

v IE7
by NotParker on Fri 13th Oct 2006 17:22 UTC
RE: IE7
by l3v1 on Fri 13th Oct 2006 17:45 UTC in reply to "IE7"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

IE7 is the new cool browser

Now come on. A browser in which you can't even change the toolbars (order, moving, add/remove buttons, etc.), not even in rc2. A browser with absolutely no easy way to develop&add plugins. If nothing else, these are enough for many of us to not even care. And those "meagre enhancements" ? About thousandfold more than IE has seen in the last 4 years, _including_ IE7.

Reply Score: 3

RE: IE7
by snozzberry on Fri 13th Oct 2006 18:03 UTC in reply to "IE7"
snozzberry Member since:
2005-11-14

IE7 patches two or three CSS support issues, repairs none of the broken CSS implementation, repairs none of the broken HTML implementations, and supports none of the CSS2 spec missing since the Empire State Building spent half its afternoon in shadow.

It's incrementally better than IE6. Incrementally.

Troll somewhere else.

Reply Score: 4

my statistics
by antik on Fri 13th Oct 2006 18:19 UTC
antik
Member since:
2006-05-19

Here is statistics from my site:

Browsers Hits Percent
----------------------------
Firefox 19202 33.8 %
Konqueror 14328 25.2 %
MS Internet Explorer 12670 22.3 %
Opera 8168 14.3 %
Mozilla 1355 2.3 %
Unknown 632 1.1 %
Netscape 148 0.2 %
Safari 140 0.2 %
K-Meleon 104 0.1 %
Camino 9 0 %
Others 0 %

Edited 2006-10-13 18:21

Reply Score: 2

RE: my statistics
by Kroc on Fri 13th Oct 2006 19:01 UTC in reply to "my statistics"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

That's nice, but as useful as an inflatable dart board. What website are you talking about? What market? What traffic? Are you seriously trying to prove something with these as-good-as-made-up figures?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: my statistics
by Redeeman on Fri 13th Oct 2006 21:55 UTC in reply to "RE: my statistics"
Redeeman Member since:
2006-03-23

lol, its very easy to believe. you know, some sites actually attract people which dont accept crap like IE.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: my statistics
by poohgee on Fri 13th Oct 2006 22:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: my statistics"
poohgee Member since:
2005-08-13

.. to counter that ... I wish some sites didnt accept crap like Firefox or IE & only accept Opera ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: my statistics
by h3rman on Fri 13th Oct 2006 21:27 UTC in reply to "my statistics"
h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

>> Firefox 19202 33.8 %
>> Konqueror 14328 25.2 %


What, Konqueror twenty-five+ percent?
Your site is kde.org?
;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: my statistics
by Redeeman on Fri 13th Oct 2006 22:09 UTC in reply to "RE: my statistics"
Redeeman Member since:
2006-03-23

kde actually has most hits with konqueror, atleast dot.kde.org ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: my statistics
by zeev on Sat 14th Oct 2006 09:52 UTC in reply to "my statistics"
zeev Member since:
2005-07-06

Probably this is a linux oriented site.
For example I use almost only konqueror
(the best UN*X browser, I think)

Reply Score: 1

Some more stats
by Darkelve on Fri 13th Oct 2006 21:59 UTC
Darkelve
Member since:
2006-02-06

I know of website in Belgium, 15 000 visitors a day on average, which has 81% Internet Explorer, 11-12% Firefox, and the rest eaten up between Netscape/Safari/Opera/...

11-12% of the market in a rather conservative country like Belgium isn't peanuts.

Reply Score: 1

Re: RE[2]: my statistics
by Darkelve on Fri 13th Oct 2006 22:00 UTC
Darkelve
Member since:
2006-02-06

"lol, its very easy to believe. you know, some sites actually attract people which dont accept crap like IE."

spreadfirefox website :p

Reply Score: 1

Statistics statistics statistics
by poohgee on Fri 13th Oct 2006 22:11 UTC
poohgee
Member since:
2005-08-13

Sorry but what is so sexy & arousing about a percentage change in browsers ?

Like it's not that browsers arent covered E-N-O-U-G-H on OSn .

It is IMO such a boring topic to cover so many times - what does everyone get from browser stats ?

There are many other stats which are more interesting than noticing granny is using firefox instaed of IE & the inherient inevitable doom this must predict for for X - browser - ;)

.. wait .. what about OLPC browser impact - that would be more interesting IMO ;)

Reply Score: 1

yes it's exciting :)
by Darkelve on Fri 13th Oct 2006 22:19 UTC
Darkelve
Member since:
2006-02-06

"Sorry but what is so sexy & arousing about a percentage change in browsers ?"

Because it hasn't happened in years?

Because browser change is supposed to be subject to the law of 'inertia'? (people won't change products if they see no reason to, or reason not to [doesn't matter if the reasons are good or bad] )

Because now, finally, there's a browser that's changing the rules? And forcing IE to better respect the rules (standards etc.)?

That's exciting enough to me! ;)

Reply Score: 1

v Its nice to see everyone cheering
by NotParker on Sat 14th Oct 2006 03:47 UTC
v IE7 new features
by NotParker on Sat 14th Oct 2006 06:40 UTC
RE: IE7 new features
by hal2k1 on Sat 14th Oct 2006 07:58 UTC in reply to "IE7 new features"
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

//Lots of new security features //

Pfft!

Virtually all of the malware exploits in the wild that attack via web browsers are exploits for IE.

This is an "IE exclusive feature" that you forgot to list, amongst all the features of IE7 that you did list that Firefox already has anyway.

What does IE7 have that Firefox doesn't? (Even Firefox 1.5) Hmmm. Let's see.

<sarcasm>How about being limited to only one platform? Firefox doesn't have that. How about lack of support for web standards like SVG? Firefox doesn't have that either.</sarcasm>

Edited 2006-10-14 07:59

Reply Score: 2

walterbyrd
Member since:
2005-12-31

I would say about 10% of major sites only work correctly with msie. That may not seem like much, but -bottom line- when you use msie, you don't have to worry about such incompatibilities.

Msie also starts up faster, and doesn't have to be seperately downloaded, and installed.

Reply Score: 1

-2 for this
by NotParker on Sat 14th Oct 2006 13:06 UTC
NotParker
Member since:
2006-06-01

Boy, some people really hate a discussion don't they?

I'll repeat:

Its nice to see everyone cheering on NetApplications stats because it makes them feel better about Firefox.

They are also the ones citing Linux at .4%

Now OneStat has Linux at .36%.

Tough choice for me ... ;)

New in IE7:

Tabs (they've been available as an IE add-on for years)
Printing is great
Quicktabs is fun
Searching
Phishing Filter
ActiveX opt-in
Lots of new security features
"No Addons" mode

What does Firefox 2.0 have thats new? Spell check?

Reply Score: 0

RE: -2 for this
by gilboa on Sat 14th Oct 2006 23:19 UTC in reply to "-2 for this"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

Amazing. You just can't stop trolling, can't you?
Enlighten me please: Do you actually believe that if you post the same stupid message over, and over, and over, and over again people will actually say:
"Duh! If he says that 100,000 times, he must be right! Duh!" and dump Firefox/Linux/etc? Do you?
Or are you just way-too-lonely and honestly, got nothing better to do with your time?

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 2

v RE[2]: -2 for this
by NotParker on Sat 14th Oct 2006 23:52 UTC in reply to "RE: -2 for this"
RE[3]: -2 for this
by gilboa on Sun 15th Oct 2006 09:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: -2 for this"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

*Sigh* Trolls *Sigh*
Beside trying to numb me into submission by repeating the same message over and over and over again, did you bother reading my post? Or did you just see it as an opportunity to repeat your stale message again?

My point is simple:
Stop posting the same message over and over again.
Once is -enough-!

... And if you keep on copy-paste the same message over and over.... and over again, don't cry uncle because people like me spend all our mod points to shut you up.

- Gilboa

Edited 2006-10-15 09:53

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: -2 for this
by NotParker on Sun 15th Oct 2006 18:35 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: -2 for this"
NotParker Member since:
2006-06-01

Beside trying to numb me into submission by repeating the same message over and over and over again, did you bother reading my post?

I read your whining and snivelling.

Stop posting the same message over and over again.

I'll tell you what. You stop lying about Linux market share ... and stop posting hate filled diatribes against anything to do with Microsoft ... and someday I'll pay attention to you.

Until then, I think there should be more Microsoft articles on this site since Linux's market share is so trivial.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: -2 for this
by gilboa on Sun 15th Oct 2006 18:54 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: -2 for this"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

Sigh.
Please post -one- message on mine, in which I said -anything- about Linux's (or Firefox's) market share.

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: -2 for this
by gilboa on Sun 15th Oct 2006 19:43 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: -2 for this"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

.... Why am I even bothering to answer (or even read) you post?
Sigh. I -should- know better.

/-1 to self for not ignoring the village idiot.

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: -2 for this
by flywheel on Mon 16th Oct 2006 08:00 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: -2 for this"
flywheel Member since:
2005-12-28

Oh - seems like you are blinded by your hatred of Linux.

Reply Score: 1

Yet some other stats
by Ford Prefect on Sat 14th Oct 2006 21:03 UTC
Ford Prefect
Member since:
2006-01-16

Stats from a german server for students of computer science:

Firefox 267674 60.5 %
Opera 60812 13.7 %
MS Internet Explorer 31412 7.1 %
Galeon 28226 6.3 %
Mozilla 27137 6.1 %
Konqueror 16153 3.6 %
Safari 7330 1.6 %

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: This is randomness but...
by hal2k1 on Sun 15th Oct 2006 11:00 UTC
hal2k1
Member since:
2005-11-11

//No, you said IE. What difference does the browser make when you're visiting a TRUSTED site but have a keylogger or other malware?

I trust Windows to use when visting my bank site because I know what is on my machine. I only use IE to visit trusted sites and I don't run executables unless they are trusted. //

This is rich. Very rich.

Lets imagine your Windows has "caught" a keylogger (and lets face it, keyloggers are written for Windows, and there are a huge number of Windows installs out there which have "caught" some malware).

OK, with your keylogger running (unknown to you) you visit your banking site. You key in your user identification, your password and maybe some other identifying data ... and the keylogger merrily sends it off to the person who has compromised your machine.

Now that person can visit your banking site, put in the same keys as recorded, and (even if the banking site has some other features), that person is at least 90% of the way to getting access to your bank account.

Once he has access ... that is the end of your bank account contents.

I'm sure you get this bit. The thing is, if you use IE on Windows, that is the very best way to get the keylogger or other malware in the first place. The things to avoid are firstly: using IE, and next: using Windows.

Use Windows but not IE - you are far better off but still at risk because a decent part of IE is actually running in Windows even if you are using another browser. Lets not forget after all that there is malware out there that targets Opera and Firefox, but don't forget when they say that that they actually mean Opera or Firefox running on Windows.

Avoid both Windows and IE and you are almost certainly safe.

//It's only "incredible funny" because you are unable to fathom that some people aren't as incompetent as you when it comes to windows. //

ROFL.

You just posted "I trust Windows to use when visting my bank site" and in the same post claim that I am incompetent? That is a beauty!

ROFLMAO!

In the words of the immortal Bugs Bunny, "what a maroon"!

//Anyway, carry on with your vendetta. //

It isn't a vendetta. I'm just trying to give people a fair warning.

PS: Why don't you listen to the recommendations of America's Homeland Security, if you don't believe me. They say, effectively something along the lines of if you are going to surf the web, then for your security they suggest you use "anything but IE".

Edited 2006-10-15 11:10

Reply Score: 2

Vendetta?
by hal2k1 on Sun 15th Oct 2006 11:45 UTC
hal2k1
Member since:
2005-11-11

I think there is possibly some serious misunderstanding of FOSS motivations here.

The words quoted below say it better than I can.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;724544089;pp;2

I think business players in the community can be made to understand that the one thing Microsoft can't embrace, extend and extinguish is FOSS values. You can trust the community, because it didn't write the software to do anything but honestly write the very best software it could. There are no hidden motives. No games. No lies. No underhanded marketing gamesmanship. It's pure software, written with love and for fun and in some cases to provide freedom to users. Nobody wrote Linux with the motive to destroy Microsoft, even if the reverse motivation might be true. And there is an honesty about the software. No FOSS developer would ever pretend that a browser was part of an operating system, for example. It's a different and more straightforward world.

FOSS motivation is all about what is good for the end users. This is because the software development model is a "meritocracy". Whatever code is best is adopted.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with "destroying Microsoft". It is not a vendetta.

It is a more of a "quest for freedom" for software users.

In the context of this thread, end users need to know that if they are not an expert, then using IE and Windows for things like Internet banking is not safe. There are alternatives ... and just about any of the alternatives is actually far better than IE and Windows.

Edited 2006-10-15 11:50

Reply Score: 1

Why do so few people use Opera?
by Kabal on Sun 15th Oct 2006 13:41 UTC
Kabal
Member since:
2005-07-09

I understand not wanting to use IE but IMO Opera is a much nicer experience than firefox - faster, prettier, and some great features in 9 like the ability to quicly add a toolbar/address bar search on any page just by right clicking in the text input box.

I only ever load up FF to test websites when developing cos the developer plugins are cool - but I have no use for those when browing on a daily basis.

Reply Score: 1

Statistics
by flywheel on Mon 16th Oct 2006 07:54 UTC
flywheel
Member since:
2005-12-28

Never trust any statistics unless you've forged them yourself...

Reply Score: 1