PC Linux distributor Terra Soft has announced plans to release its Yellow Dog Linux distribution for Sony's upcoming PlayStation 3 gaming console. Featuring the experimental e17 desktop environment, Terra Soft's upcoming distribution release is surprisingly unconventional. Ars talked to Terra Soft CEO Kai Staats and Enlightenment developer Carsten 'Rasterman' Haitzler about Linux and the PS3.
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2006-02-06
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Anyone know if OpenGL drives work in YDL?
Hmm, you'd need a special one compiled by NVidia. No idea if they plan on releasing one or not, but I doubt it since they've never released any PPC drivers before.
On the other hand, maybe Sony will provide one?
Edited 2006-10-19 22:17
Member since:2006-02-06
Nvidia has released PPC drivers in the past, Macs used PPC CPUs and were running Nvidia GPUs in many cases, so that is not the issue. The problem is, unless Sony supports the initiative of a Linux distribution for the PS3, Nvidia will not release a driver. Why would they bite the hand that feeds them?
Linux drivers are a necessity to sell high end Quadro cards, as many graphics heavy companies run Linux nowadays, but YDL?!...with 256 MB of RAM. Sony would have to pay or support that development.
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Nvidia has released PPC drivers in the past, Macs used PPC CPUs and were running Nvidia GPUs in many cases, so that is not the issue.
yes, it *is* an issue. just because there are drivers from nvidia for Mac OS X this means nothing for Linux drivers. You wouldn't say that drivers are no issue on Linux/x86 if there exists an Windows driver for the device, would you?
I don't think we will ever see Linux/PPC64 drivers from nvidia.
Member since:2005-07-06
Anyone know if OpenGL drives work in YDL?
This is a key question and the answer is not in the interview. The points about E17 not needing OpenGL make me wonder if it is missing.
As for plans on turning it into a set top box, what are you going to do for an HDTV tuner? You need a USB HD tuner with cable card and some way of getting around the DRM crap so that you can view the content that you paid for. Hack ATI's OCUR?
No access to HD, BlueRay and OpenGL will mean no buy for me. It is a shame because this box has real potential. Let's hope for the best.
Member since:2006-05-29
No they don't and they will not. Sony don't want to risk their Gamesbusiness, although i don't think that would be very likely even if they did.
It is the same as with PS2 and even NetYaroze (their programmable PS1): they will prevent everything to happen that would make quality 3d games possible.
Member since:2005-07-06
Sorry, but what OS/free games could threaten PS3 "native" games? Sure, you could probably have Doom and possibly more advanced games (I'm no expert) run on the PS3, but they would be a far cry from what the new PS3 games are supposed to look like.
I also suspect that the hacker/Linux user and game enthusiast markets (/demographics) are quite separate: do you think the average teenager who bought the PS3 for the latest and greatest games is going to run a Linux distro to get homebrew games? I don't think so.
rehdon
Member since:2006-05-29
I said that i don't think it is likely to happen, but obviously that seems to be Sonys concerns. They even admitted it in the NetYaroze days and i think that is why they are so desperate in trying to prevent homebrew software in the PSP.
Pitty, a PSP would be actually interesting if it could run my own programms.
I would take any bet that there aren't going to be Hardwareaccelerated 3D Drivers on PS3 Linux and the way the Terra Soft guys are emphasizing that they don't need OpenGL for fancy effects on their desktop is very suspicious.
Member since:2005-07-08
In response to someone saying since they mention they don't need OpenGL for their effects that it is suspicious. They say they don't need it because E17 doesn't typically use it. You could say the same thing on a distribution for a general purpose computer (like elive) and still have OpenGL drivers.
Edited 2006-10-21 20:53
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A, uhm, friend of mine has this dilemma.
Lets say that he is a linux buff with about $600-$800 to spare on the essentials of a new generation computer - the cpu, mainboard, memory and gpu. His old box is starting to lagg behind a bit, being a three year old 2000something+ Athlon system. The money will more or less buy an X2 dual core CPU, a gig of RAM, a mobo and a midrange GF gpu. Disks, drives and peripherials are simply interhited.
A new x86 X2 computer or a new PS3?
The x86 system is clearly a general purpose machine, used for development, communication, education, multimedia playback and casual gaming etc. The old system is ok for the basics, but for for instance multimedia creation and editing or modern gaming it is a bit too slow. A new machine is needed to keep up with the intended tasks the owner has with a computer.
The PS3 on the other hand is a pretty hard core gaming box. But it will also play various media, including hidef (the owner has a CRT TV that can display 1080i signals, and they sure look great), and supposedly run Linux which opens up a world of retro games emulation and general purpose computing, or does it? Does anyone know anything about the signed binaries issue? Do you think 256 megs of RAM enough to run a functional desktop? Can it be hooked up to a computer LCD monitor with DVI?
To rephrase my question a little, what sort of tasks normally done by a desktop computer do you expect (from what you now about the PS3 and Cell at this time) the PS3 will actually accomplish better than a similarly priced x86 upgrade, apart from gaming?
Edited 2006-10-19 23:02
Member since:2005-07-06
To rephrase my question a little, what sort of tasks normally done by a desktop computer do you expect (from what you now about the PS3 and Cell at this time) the PS3 will actually accomplish better than a similarly priced x86 upgrade, apart from gaming?
That's the whole point. It doesn't have to do it better. If it can do the same as the x86 upgrade AND play games, it is aleady a better a deal!
Member since:2005-07-06
That's the whole point. It doesn't have to do it better. If it can do the same as the x86 upgrade AND play games, it is aleady a better a deal!
Unless of course the only thing it does well is games and the rest isn't up to snuff. I personally have my doubts that Sony is going to let me do whatever I want on PS3, particulary in the area of turning it into a set-top media box.
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[quote]To rephrase my question a little, what sort of tasks normally done by a desktop computer do you expect (from what you now about the PS3 and Cell at this time) the PS3 will actually accomplish better than a similarly priced x86 upgrade, apart from gaming? [/quote]
Blu-ray 
Sure, I am not at all interested in buying movies in this format, but if you have a Netflix suscription, it would be cool to be able to rent 'em.
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2006-10-20
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Hmm...
Does Linux even support Dlu-Ray yet?
If so, where are the drivers?
From the sound of things, the PS3 wont have Linux pre-installed at all but rather have an embedeed OS with a interface much like Xbox 360's?
I bet Linux will only become a third-party option that must be purchased like it was with the PS2. That would make the PS3 less special because one can install 3rd party Linux on an original Xbox; support for Linux on the 360 is underway from what I've read.
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Gentoo does http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20060807-newsletter.xml
it sais that lu_zero added the IBM CELL SDK which simulates a dual CELL machine. and yes, we have crossdev and so a working toolchain (gcc/glibc/binutils/linux-headers). There is no gentoo project actualy working on the PlayStation3. We don't have early access to the consoles like Terrasoft. Toolchain is only one part of the whole "Gentoo on PlayStation3" thing.
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Since Yellowdog and other various Linux distros will run on the PS3, I assume it automatically supports USB Keyboard/Mouse connections. And, if that's the case, then is it really true that you can play the games with such controls?? If so I am SOLD.
I will sell my Core Duo PC right now on eBay. I would imagine that this is really up to the game designers to implement Keyboard/Mouse controls for the game IF they designed the game that way in the first place.
I have heard the rumours, now I want facts! Anyone want to chime in here?
Argument: Sure everyone knows that the latest PC's on the market are faster than the PS3, and that they can do more as a computer.
However, for me personally I really use my PC at home for the normal stuff: Browse the web, check my email, chat, download demos and run the latest 3D games available. Which is the whole reason I spent $2,500 on it with the best video card etc...
Problem with that scenario is the best PC games only come around every year or so. PS3 games will be every month!
Point is, if the PS3 can do the routine stuff like email, web, chat and also the run best games on the market with multimedia funtionality and more, it's a steal......
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I was wondering how it might be possible to get some rather good graphics even without full 3d acceleration on the PS3. If done correctly a Mesa implementation should be just as powerfuly (if not more) than a 8 pipeline GPU which means GF6200 quality? The only bottleneck here would be the system memory to screen bandwidth. But still, some pretty snazzy games should still be possible.
Member since:2006-01-08
I'd have to agree with this in many repsects. Although I do hope that the hardware will be available, an optimized (and ideally dynamically-compiled) software rendering implimentation could do quite well on the Cell CPU. Of the 7 SPEs available, reserving 2 for geometry (vertex) processing, 4 for pixel processing, and leaving the last to other tasks could yield good results. Certainly not top-of-the-line, but I would estimate something akin to a radeon 9600 or Geforce 4 level of capability. Originally, Sony had hoped that that a multi-cell system would be capable of handling graphics -- which would have likely been true if things had continued at the pace they were 5 years ago, but there was an explosion in graphics power brought about by nVidea and particularly ATI.
Graphics is one of the few tasks that the SPEs *really* excel at. It's not branchy, it's spacialy localized, it lends itself to DMA and it's embarressingly parallel... Depending on the color depth you want to support you could get 4, 8 or even 16 "pixel pipelines" out of 4 SPEs (128bit/HDR, 64bit/half-HDR or 32bit respectively, assuming that the SPEs support integer and half-floats.)
Can you tell that software rendering is a bit of a hobby for me?
