Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 28th Oct 2006 17:28 UTC, submitted by Tyr.
Windows "Leading PC manufacturer Acer has accused Microsoft of ratcheting up the cost of Windows by effectively forcing consumers to opt for the Premium version of Vista. Acer claims that the Vista Home Basic - the new entry-level Windows - is so poorly featured that consumers will simply reject it. "The new [Vista] experience you hear of, if you get Basic, you won't feel it at all," said Jim Wong, senior corporate vice president at Acer. "There's no [Aero] graphics, no Media Center, no remote control."
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Sounds about right...
by ma_d on Sat 28th Oct 2006 17:32 UTC
ma_d
Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm still amazed they're shipping a version without the full Aero. Backwards compatibility? Ok, fine, shut it off when the hardware can't take it (it does this, automatically as it is); but why would the typical consumer want Vista without the neat graphics?

Because it's more secure? Want to know how that reads to non-techies: "It's harder to use." -- or -- "What's security? Am I gonna die?"

Reply Score: 5

RE: Sounds about right...
by SamuraiCrow on Sat 28th Oct 2006 17:56 UTC in reply to "Sounds about right..."
SamuraiCrow Member since:
2005-11-19

I think it's becuase the multi-processor scheduling sucks on XP. (I just learned this in my Operating Systems class.) It just takes the top priority task and feeds that to the first core and then feeds the rest to the second core. :-P

If you're getting a Core 2 Duo processor you'll want Vista or Linux instead of XP. If you've got a single-core processor then stick with what you've got. It's probably not worth the upgrade.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Sounds about right...
by ParaMouthBalls on Sun 29th Oct 2006 02:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Sounds about right..."
ParaMouthBalls Member since:
2006-10-25

Agreed

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Sounds about right...
by stare on Sun 29th Oct 2006 20:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Sounds about right..."
stare Member since:
2005-07-06

I think it's becuase the multi-processor scheduling sucks on XP. (I just learned this in my Operating Systems class.)

It seems that what really sucks is your Operating Systems class.

It just takes the top priority task and feeds that to the first core and then feeds the rest to the second core

NT scheduler works with threads. If you have 1 thread sucking the CPU you will get the high load on this CPU, since you can't break a thread between two CPU's, and moving a thread is expensive. If you have multiple threads, NT will dynamically balance the load between least-busy CPUs using the soft affinity algorithm.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Sounds about right...
by eMagius on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:08 UTC in reply to "Sounds about right..."
eMagius Member since:
2005-07-06

but why would the typical consumer want Vista without the neat graphics? Because it's more secure?

Apart from security, the "typical consumer" still gets everything they got with XP Home plus highly visible features such as instant searching, DirectX 10, virtual folders, the new Windows Explorer, sidebar/widgets, Windows Mail, DVD maker, Calendar, Meeting Space, parental controls, and speech recognition and synthesis. Additionally, WMP 11 and IE 7 are installed out of the box.

If consumers bought the Tiger upgrade just for Spotlight and Dashboard (and small application updates), wouldn't they be willing to buy Vista [Home Basic] for all that and more?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Sounds about right...
by Shkaba on Sun 29th Oct 2006 19:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Sounds about right..."
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

Just one remark:
you forgot to include DRM :-)

Reply Score: 1

He also forgot...
by startxjeff on Mon 30th Oct 2006 13:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sounds about right..."
startxjeff Member since:
2006-09-29

The "End Licensed Device License Agreement" and associated limitations. (The EULA is dead, love live the ELDLA!)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Sounds about right...
by tomcat on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:45 UTC in reply to "Sounds about right..."
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Some PC makers will ship hardware that isn't capable of running Aero, so they don't want to incur the additional cost of the premium versions. Makes sense. Frankly, I'm surprised that OEMs wouldn't embrace more choice.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Sounds about right...
by tomcat on Sat 28th Oct 2006 19:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Sounds about right..."
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Would somebody mind telling me which part of this post contains offensive language or personal attacks? Because it was modded down to 0 for no apparent reason.

"Some PC makers will ship hardware that isn't capable of running Aero, so they don't want to incur the additional cost of the premium versions. Makes sense. Frankly, I'm surprised that OEMs wouldn't embrace more choice."

I have a right to my opinion, just as everyone else has a right to their opinions. You may disagree with me, but that isn't a sufficient basis to mod a post down. If you (and you know who you are) want to suppress opposing viewpoints, you're in the wrong forum. OS News is supposed to cover ALL operating system news, and you need to grow up and learn a bit more about tolerance & respect.

Reply Score: 5

Better idea
by sp29 on Sat 28th Oct 2006 17:36 UTC
sp29
Member since:
2006-01-04

Just buy a iMac with OS X on it if you are home user. Microsoft crippled Vista...........MS just wants customers to pay for it's developing fees. How long ago was longhorn(vista) promised?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Better idea
by PJBonoVox on Sat 28th Oct 2006 17:59 UTC in reply to "Better idea"
PJBonoVox Member since:
2006-08-14

...and you wonder why you get voted down. Please, we are all capable of choosing what we want, and we don't need a nobody on the comments section making us hate [insert OS here] any more.

I gotta say, it does seem a little sneaky that they drop the price, strip the features and then hike the price of the 'comparable' version, almost like Windows XP Home was the old 'bait and switch'. I'd expect to get a comparable version for the same price otherwise there's no reason to upgrade. In fact, it's a downgrade.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Better idea
by eMagius on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Better idea"
eMagius Member since:
2005-07-06

I gotta say, it does seem a little sneaky that they drop the price, strip the features and then hike the price of the 'comparable' version, almost like Windows XP Home was the old 'bait and switch'. I'd expect to get a comparable version for the same price otherwise there's no reason to upgrade. In fact, it's a downgrade.

I don't follow. Vista Home Basic has everything XP Home did (except deprecated applications like Windows Messenger (replaced by Windows Live Messenger) and HyperTerminal and support for dead protocols like Gopher). On top of that, it's got a boat-load of new features and applications (see my previous post for the ones most obvious to "typical users."

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Better idea
by sigzero on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Better idea"
sigzero Member since:
2006-01-03

Then stick with XP! There obviously isn't any reason for you to upgrade. If you want Aero and the rest you have to get more than "basic".

Reply Score: 3

bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

That's exactly what many of us intend to do until something better comes along. I was encouraged some five or so years ago to buy XP for the added security over Windows 98SE (customized and sans-IE with 98Lite) by friends on computer forums who seemed to be more knowledgeable than me. We all know what a mistake that was... Then factor in I'm hearing impaired and at that time had no home internet...and still had to somehow deal with WPA!

No, this will be my last copy of Microsoft's Windows, XP is as far as I'm willing to be pushed. I was able to work around the enforced integration of IE for a long time, I was able to staunch the privacy encroachment of WMP, and these days I have to HACK my legitimate copy of Windows just to avoid Microsoft's WGA spyware...enough.

--bornagainpenguin (ALT OSes or bust)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Better idea
by MollyC on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Better idea"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

Vista Home Premium isn't really "comparable" to XP Home, because Vista Home Premium has Media Center (and Tablet PC OS) built-in. Therefore it's actually more comparable to XP MCE (Media Center Edition), which is actually built on top of XP Pro.

So if you want to make a fair price comparison, you'd have to compare Vista Premium's price with XP Pro's, not XP Home's.

Edited 2006-10-28 18:21

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Better idea
by eMagius on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:26 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Better idea"
eMagius Member since:
2005-07-06

For the record, XP Media Center Edition is available as an OEM purchase. It costs more than XP Home but about the same as XP Pro.

Edited 2006-10-28 18:31

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Better idea
by CPUGuy on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Better idea"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm pretty sure MCE is built on XP Home.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Better idea
by NotParker on Sat 28th Oct 2006 22:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Better idea"
NotParker Member since:
2006-06-01

I'm pretty sure MCE is built on XP Home.

No. You can RDP into an MCE 2005 PC. Thats an Xp Pro feature.

Vista Premium is a very good deal compared to XP Home ... even better if you only pay 44$ for it with a new PC.

I hear people in Asia/Russia prefer to pay 5$ for a pirated Windows disc rather than install Linux for free.

Edited 2006-10-28 22:09

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Better idea
by twenex on Sat 28th Oct 2006 22:20 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Better idea"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

I hear people in Asia/Russia prefer to pay 5$ for a pirated Windows disc rather than install Linux for free.

Do you also hear the voice of God telling you to troll linux-friendly websites?

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Better idea
by wirespot on Mon 30th Oct 2006 09:55 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Better idea"
wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

He may actually be right, you know. http://aranea.zuavra.net/index.php/65/#ig-3">Read for example. It's not Russia or Asia, it's Eastern Europe, but you get the idea.

As for "Linux friendly website", I don't know what you mean. This is OSNews, a place for all operating system news.

Reply Score: 1

RE[8]: Better idea
by twenex on Mon 30th Oct 2006 10:59 UTC in reply to "RE[7]: Better idea"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

By "Linux-friendly website" I mean "website open to the possibility that there may actually be a point to Linux (and/or other operating systems than Windows", rather than "a website which proclaims the suitability of Windows and only Windows for all the world's computing problems", which I would describe as a "Windows-fanboy" or at the very least "Linux-antagonistic" website.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Better idea
by Shkaba on Sat 28th Oct 2006 22:24 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Better idea"
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

I hear people in Asia/Russia are already selling Vista :-)

Just like here, you have people that still have to run windows for legacy applications and for games, but their number is in a (albeit slow) steady decline. Funny though windows needed for legacy apps...is that maybe a hint





spelling error edit

Edited 2006-10-28 22:27

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Better idea
by NotParker on Sat 28th Oct 2006 22:46 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Better idea"
NotParker Member since:
2006-06-01

Just like here, you have people that still have to run windows for legacy applications and for games, but their number is in a (albeit slow) steady decline.

Actually, their number is increasing by close to 215 million or more per year.

97% of current PC sales is way higher than 97% of PC sales a few years ago.

2006 Estimated PC Sales - Around 225 million
2003 PC Sales - Around 169 million

Edited 2006-10-28 22:49

Reply Score: 1

RE[8]: Better idea
by Shkaba on Sat 28th Oct 2006 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE[7]: Better idea"
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

Decrease that i was refering to has nothing to do with PC sales, it has to do with windows users. I'd appreciate if you would at least read a post before replying to it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Better idea
by orfanum on Sun 29th Oct 2006 06:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Better idea"
orfanum Member since:
2006-06-02

I take your point about *our* being able to choose what we want, but most people are not really aware (this is not invoking the 'Joe User' argument, since I think we'd mostly agree that on average there isn't much awareness of alternatives to Windows "Out There"), and most things called 'computers' come with Windows to the extent that it's pretty incontrovertible to assert that the terms are more or less synonymous for the regular consumer...not much choice there, in that sense.

In other words, I feel that the way Vista is being introduced, and the question of DRM, not to mention the licensing conditions attached to Windows, and the more prevalent security issues will make OSX a much more attractive alternative at this point. Most folk will not be paying the full retail price of Windows, it's true, but looking at the retail price of OSX and the cost of still good but not current Macs combined at least has me convinced that the next move after Vista will be OSX. I realize that the medium-term viability of such a scenario would depend on when exactly (those in the know could tell me) Apple is likely to drop PPC support, but such support may be long enough to allow me to ride the backwash of the first Vista wave with impunity - and I think I would recommend to friends and family to start going this way too.

By no means a fanboy (my fondness for PCBSD notwithstanding) of any sort nor an intrinsic Windows-basher, just for the record!!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Better idea
by tryphcycle on Mon 30th Oct 2006 19:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Better idea"
tryphcycle Member since:
2006-02-16

"we don't need a nobody on the comments section making us hate [insert OS here] any more."

Tisk Tisk!!!!!

what would the world be like with out you OSX haters!!!!!!!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Better idea
by SK8T on Sat 28th Oct 2006 21:09 UTC in reply to "Better idea"
SK8T Member since:
2006-06-01

he's so right!

Which Vista version do you get for 129?! But you would get Mac OS X Leopard, with a Media Center, and much more than the best Vista version for more than 400!

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Better idea
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 28th Oct 2006 23:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Better idea"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

But you would get Mac OS X Leopard, with a Media Center, and much more than the best Vista version for more than 400!

Apple is selling a media center now? (Hint: FrontRow is not comparable to MCE, by any stretch of the imagination).

Reply Score: 4

RE: Better idea
by rayiner on Sun 29th Oct 2006 03:22 UTC in reply to "Better idea"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

MS just wants customers to pay for it's developing fees.

Duh? I mean... duh?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Better idea
by flanque on Sun 29th Oct 2006 03:46 UTC in reply to "Better idea"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

If Apple released a version of MacOS for more generic Intel hardware and not a specific subset, I'd definitely be looking at it with open eyes.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Better idea
by justin.68 on Sun 29th Oct 2006 12:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Better idea"
justin.68 Member since:
2006-09-16

Exactly what I'd do, too. MacOS would be a good choice if Apple would release a flavour of it capable of running on any type of x86 compatible CPU.

Resource-hungry crippleware is what people will never need. I'd never thought I might say this one day, but it's high time many more people started to ignore MS and looked elsewhere.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Better idea
by twenex on Mon 30th Oct 2006 11:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Better idea"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

Whether or not now is the time for people to ignore MS, every dog has its day - and then that day is gone. Otherwise you'd still get people determined that the Roman or even the Sumerian empire is around, or that the (first) Jerusalem Temple still exists.

Reply Score: 2

Re: Same **** different decade
by aGNUstic on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:02 UTC
aGNUstic
Member since:
2005-07-28

Aside from this not actually being news it is actually just the Redmond marketing giant making you pay.

If Acer wants a real OS it should turn to a BSD or Linux.

Buy a Mac along with OS X. Let Acer go if it wants to suckle at Redmond's tit.

OS X, BSD or Linux are excellent alternatives to the Redmond garbage.

Reply Score: 3

TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

Let me see if I can figure out the logic you are posting on here. The story is about Windows being over priced. Then you turn around and say buy a Mac with OS X which costs a lot more than any Acer + Windows ever could. Please tell me where I'm going wrong here because I can't figure out what you are suggesting.

Reply Score: 5

REM2000 Member since:
2006-07-25

He's suggesting that instead of paying whatever amount for an acer pc with a crippled copy of windows vista, purchase a Mac OS X which has had all of the features of vista since last year and is in no way crippled.

As for the price, sometimes you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

Reply Score: 4

flange Member since:
2006-10-06

Except for full screen video. My iBook G4 came with Panther and a version of Quicktime which could not play video full screen unless I was willing to fork over another $30 for Quicktime Pro. Don't give Apple a free pass. Unless they've changed in the year and a half since I bought my iBook, they pull some of the same stupid crap Microsoft does.

Apple may have a better OS on the market right now (that's debatable), but don't think for a second that if they eventually find themselves in Microsoft's current position of market domination that they will be any better than MS is today.

Reply Score: 5

stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

Do you have any facts/figures to back up your:

OS X which costs a lot more than any Acer + Windows ever could.?

I think that the prices are at least comparable, if not, OSX+Mac-Mini is cheaper.

Reply Score: 1

SK8T Member since:
2006-06-01

you don't need Mac Mini + OS X, because OS X is on every Mac Mini ;-)

Reply Score: 1

stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

I know, I have a mac-mini ;) .

I want to know WTH my comment was modded down? In what way is it offensive, inflammatory or off topic?

Reply Score: 1

justin.68 Member since:
2006-09-16

The real hardware requirements for all Windows versions have always been a lot higher than the official ones (from Windows 95 to XP). If Microsoft is going to sell heavily downgraded versions of Vista as an entry-level product, then a usable, responsive and full featured Vista version plus the hardware on which to run it will cost more than a Mac. And I'm one of those people who have always complained about Apple selling overpriced stuff.

If Unixes and clones do not represent a solution because they are thought to be more difficult to use than windowish OS's (which is getting largely false as Windows is getting bulky), the fact remains the vast majority of home users aren't going to be needing Vista anyway. They might as well as stick to their older hardware and the older 16/32 bit Windows versions that require fewer hardware resources.

Acer and others might start selling Windows compatible hardware without shipping Windows with it. That would help us and them to save a few bucks.

Reply Score: 1

aGNUstic Member since:
2005-07-28

I was a McSoft systems administrator at a college in New Mexico for six years. Servers and workstations out the ....

The only McSoft products that were not bulky were DOS, Win 3.1(1) and maybe NT4 depending on how you view it.

In an attempt to be the all-in-all they became a monstrosity operating platform. I'm sure that upsets the McSoft fan boys but who cares. The future is based on *nix-styled operating systems.

Reply Score: 2

NotParker Member since:
2006-06-01

The future is based on *nix-styled operating systems.

And the present is always Linux with < 1% of the market.

And in 10 years ... same thing.

Reply Score: 2

aGNUstic Member since:
2005-07-28

lol

Reply Score: 1

hmmm
by notig on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:20 UTC
notig
Member since:
2006-10-07

doesnt MS give good deals to the OEM's ? so because its premium instead of home it might be what? 5 dollars more expensive? anyone have numbers?

Reply Score: 1

RE: hmmm
by twenex on Sat 28th Oct 2006 20:25 UTC in reply to "hmmm"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

As the article states, a price hike of 1 to 2 percent is a big increase in a low-profit-margin market, no matter how many dollars or cents that equates to.

Reply Score: 1

aGNUstic
Member since:
2005-07-28

If Acer wants to invest in a solid operating system it should invest in either BSD or Linux. It does not need McSoft to survive or make a profit.

If you have the extra money, which you will be paying to McSoft in one form or another, you could also purchase a Mac running OS X. At least it is an excellent investment on the money.

I know from experience as a systems-level technician in a data center and support person in another lifetime that BSD, Linux, and Apple are excellent alternatives.

Reply Score: 1

TaterSalad Member since:
2005-07-06

So essentially you want us to purchase two computers. One to run linux or BSD - the OS is free but the hardware still costs money, and one to run OS X on a Mac. I'm still not seeing the cost savings of purchasing two computers over one. The price of Windows on any new computer won't drive prices up all that much. Consumers will not be paying the retail price with the purchase of a new system.

Reply Score: 1

matthekc Member since:
2006-10-28

you can always dual boot xp and linux or anything with a bootloader even illegal osx if you wanted

Edited 2006-10-28 18:57

Reply Score: 2

rexbinary Member since:
2006-01-04

Or just buy a Intel Mac and legally run any OS you want.

Reply Score: 2

Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't get it at all. Why can't you dual/multiple boot on the same computer, including on a Mac? (Boot Camp...)

Reply Score: 1

re hmm
by notig on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:23 UTC
notig
Member since:
2006-10-07

whoops nm. should have read the article. furthermore, Wong claims that the manufacturer's licence for Vista Home Premium is 10% more expensive than for XP Home. "We have to pay more but users are not going to pay more," Wong said. As a result, he claims the total cost of building a PC has risen by 1-2%, which is a significant increase in such a low-margin business.

If the margins are that low perhaps They might look at linux after all. if 10% is that much... they probably already pay like $40 . so now $44 instead... if it makes that big of a difference then imagine how attractive linux could be

Reply Score: 2

RE: re hmm
by Babi Asu on Sun 29th Oct 2006 01:37 UTC in reply to "re hmm"
Babi Asu Member since:
2006-02-11

whoops nm. should have read the article. furthermore, Wong claims that the manufacturer's licence for Vista Home Premium is 10% more expensive than for XP Home. "We have to pay more but users are not going to pay more," Wong said. As a result, he claims the total cost of building a PC has risen by 1-2%, which is a significant increase in such a low-margin business.

If the margins are that low perhaps They might look at linux after all. if 10% is that much... they probably already pay like $40 . so now $44 instead... if it makes that big of a difference then imagine how attractive linux could be


You know, when VW thought that producing VW in Brazil will be a smart move because of lower production cost, they found that the sales became lower because people know that it's not "made in Germany".

Replacing Vista with linux will never work for PC manufacturer business. Let's see how long pre-installed SLED can stand.

Reply Score: 1

Ship Linux
by rexbinary on Sat 28th Oct 2006 19:07 UTC
rexbinary
Member since:
2006-01-04

If Acer had some balls they would start offering Linux pre-installs as well.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Ship Linux
by ThawkTH on Sat 28th Oct 2006 19:45 UTC in reply to "Ship Linux"
ThawkTH Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, I agree but...why beat up on Acer?!

If (Insert Manufacturer)


Dell,
Gateway
HP

Had balls (and frankly it might take a lot less balls for HP/Dell to flip Microsoft the tall one and start preinstalling Linux than a small manufacturer like Acer)

T

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Ship Linux
by bornagainenguin on Sun 29th Oct 2006 18:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Ship Linux"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

Maybe Acer is getting picked on because they're the ones who are complaining? It's easy to whine about a prblem, and not quite so easy to actually do something about it, you know?

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ship Linux
by Jody on Sat 28th Oct 2006 22:35 UTC in reply to "Ship Linux"
Jody Member since:
2005-06-30

This is becasue shipping a Linux distro would mean customers buying it would expect support for it.

Picture a non-Linux person buying the Linux system because it is $50 cheaper. Now they are faced with something they have never seen and they call the vendor "how do I make x, y, or z work on this computer you sold me??"

They could say on the page "we don't supoport the OS" but many wouldn't understand.

Believe me, I once did internet tech support and I talked to people all the time who though that if they found something on the internet, we were supposed to support it becasue we provided the internet to them.

If you ask them, if they got a virus through "our internet" it was our problem too.

If Linux came with the PC, in the eyes of most customers you sold them that product and they will believe you are entitled to support it.

Most people who use Linux are going to install their own flavor anyway. When someone downloads Ubuntu or Mandrake etc. on their own, their is no expectation of support from the PC vendor.

For the time being, shipping with FreeDOS seems to be the most realistic solution.

Edited 2006-10-28 22:37

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Ship Linux
by wirespot on Mon 30th Oct 2006 10:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Ship Linux"
wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

Then they should pick one of the better Linux desktop distro's and work out a support deal with the maker. Don't you think Novell or Ubuntu would jump at the opportunity?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ship Linux
by joeprusa on Sat 28th Oct 2006 22:56 UTC in reply to "Ship Linux"
joeprusa Member since:
2006-05-25

That's what they sort of do here (Czech republic). They offer a PC with "Linux" - meaning no system at all (that's Acer). Or you can get a PC with FreeDOS (that's HP). In both cases you have to actually install it yourself and I suspect nobody bothers to check for HW compatibility.
As for the Vista Basic - you will (supposedly) have all versions on a single DVD, so once you realize you need more than Basic, you pay Microsoft - directly, no middleman - and get the better stuff.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Ship Linux
by n4cer on Sat 28th Oct 2006 23:29 UTC in reply to "RE: Ship Linux"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

As for the Vista Basic - you will (supposedly) have all versions on a single DVD, so once you realize you need more than Basic, you pay Microsoft - directly, no middleman - and get the better stuff.

Not directly. The Anytime Upgrade purchasing process is handled via several partners, possibly even the OEM from which you bought the computer.

Regarding Acer, complaining about pricing isn't new for them. They've complained in the past about XP Tablet PC Edition, seeking price breaks for it.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ship Linux
by taos on Sun 29th Oct 2006 00:56 UTC in reply to "Ship Linux"
taos Member since:
2005-11-16

rexbinary: If Acer had some balls they would start offering Linux pre-installs as well.

Edit: on the second read, I saw "as well", so I took my orignal response back.

Edited 2006-10-29 01:00

Reply Score: 1

Not me... Not me.
by deathshadow on Sat 28th Oct 2006 19:30 UTC
deathshadow
Member since:
2005-07-12

Funny that the three things listed - Aero, Remote and media center - TOP the list of things I'd likely turn off...

Frankly, so long as it doesn't have nuetered networking (like XP Home) it might not be that bad.

But then, the new UI just pisses me off - if my Grandmother can figure out XP Home you are ****ing DONE with the UI - as I've said time and time again I wish they'd stop with the stupid eye candy and actually FIX the underlying stuff.

Reply Score: 4

Alternative OS
by sampsaltakis on Sat 28th Oct 2006 19:52 UTC
sampsaltakis
Member since:
2006-10-28

I really don't understand why companies are not embracing alternative operating systems. Whether it's Linux or BSD.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Alternative OS
by Bending Unit on Sat 28th Oct 2006 20:17 UTC in reply to "Alternative OS"
Bending Unit Member since:
2005-07-06

I dunno, lack of demand?

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Alternative OS
by twenex on Sat 28th Oct 2006 20:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Alternative OS"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

More like chicken-and-egg.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Alternative OS
by WorknMan on Sat 28th Oct 2006 21:17 UTC in reply to "Alternative OS"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I really don't understand why companies are not embracing alternative operating systems. Whether it's Linux or BSD.

Yeah, I'm sure people would be lining up to get an Acer machine with Linux or BSD. Especially since 99.8% of them don't even know what Linux or BSD is.

And I agree with another user - Aero, Remote and media center would be the first 3 things I'd probably turn off. IMHO, there's plenty of market out there for the home basic version.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Alternative OS
by jbrader on Sat 28th Oct 2006 22:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Alternative OS"
jbrader Member since:
2005-11-12

Many of those people don't really know what windows is either. A large portion of non-nerd don't really have any understanding that the OS is really just another program. To them the OS is the computer. If our grandmothers knew what you and I know about OS's and new there were alternatives out there whose to say they wouldn't want to switch?
And perhaps that time is coming. After all once upon a time the car was just a mysterious to most people as computers are now, but today most people have at least a rudimentary understanding of how they work. And a lot of people have been living with computers for a long time now, the mystery is starting to go out of them.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Alternative OS
by eMagius on Sat 28th Oct 2006 23:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Alternative OS"
eMagius Member since:
2005-07-06

After all once upon a time the car was just a mysterious to most people as computers are now, but today most people have at least a rudimentary understanding of how they work.

I daresay more drivers in 1910 (or even 1950) had some understanding of how cars work than do drivers of today.

That's also true of personal computer users -- those in the Altair (or even DOS) days knew much more than today's average user.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Alternative OS
by hraq on Sun 29th Oct 2006 05:25 UTC in reply to "Alternative OS"
hraq Member since:
2005-07-06

1. They have applications that they purchased and those applications are not near any free applications available for linux or BSD.

2. They lack the motivation to learn how to administer or work with a new OS

3. Linux and BSD are way much more difficult to deal with than windows or Mac

4. Linux support and linux support teams are scarse at best. (1 in each 50 miles squre).

5. Linux distros are many and confusing and they tend to be more unstable overall than Windows/Mac. Except for some enterprise level Distros like Redhat EL and Novell SLED. even those two they tend to mature slowly and they have many buggy features.

6. No OEM is able to write stable device drivers for linux/BSD, and for which linux or BSD

Linux is a good candidate for those without prior knowlege of computers and without requirements of windows compatibility (employee, students have mandatory windows compatability), and without much money to buy either Mac or Windows! Which brings the probability to almost nell.

I have installed for my brother and my sister Fedora 5 on their 2 separate computers.
My sister told me that I need windows because my school needs me to use special programs written execlusively for windows.
Whereas my brother told me I want windows for my Canon All in one Printer/Fax/Scanner/Copier to work and for some windows games as well; but he uses fedora for the internet and all multimedia after I have configured xine with all the codecs for him.

A chiropractic doctor told me I have to have windows for some applications that was written for him execlusively to suit his business, and that no programmer was available to write that program in other linux/Unix programming languages.

For these and other situations linux/BSD/others are hard to get out of the technie shells they exist in!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Alternative OS
by Shkaba on Sun 29th Oct 2006 05:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Alternative OS"
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

I find most of your points to be valid except for the

"6. No OEM is able to write stable device drivers for linux/BSD, and for which linux or BSD "

Drivers are incorporated in the kernel no need to worry for differencies in distros. And definately they can and they do write stable drivers, way more stable then for windows.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Alternative OS
by hraq on Sun 29th Oct 2006 07:19 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Alternative OS"
hraq Member since:
2005-07-06

"6. No OEM is able to write stable device drivers for linux/BSD, and for which linux or BSD "

The device drivers included within the kernel tend generally to be basic at best; look eg to Creative Products from Sound Cards to Web Cameras. I cannot find a Creative linux drivers as advanced as in windows, and for web cameras nothing at all; then if Acer decided to include a web camera in their laptops they would be rejected by Creative, and Acer will write drivers for that particular web camera themselves, which would be very basic or otherwise they will waste tremendous resources on it, which would not happen because they are nagging about few dollars on vista copies in the first place.
So if devices' manufacturers don't support linux/BSD with drivers(as in the real life) then computer OEMs are left for the kernel's supplied drivers or their own version of drivers, which the latter would be buggy as they don't have the resources to master it for bunch of devices.

Even, a big name like ATI was and still unable to write a decent linux device drivers for the best known linux distros from Redhat or Novell. And for the same reason nvidia is much preffered for linux users, even though it's far from perfect.

Recently, I have installed nvidia supplied drivers for many linuxes, solaris and windows while benchmarking SPECviewperf 9 for the same computer with the same graphics card; and I have found that linux drivers tend to crash and when passed dave me low values than windows ,on contrary solaris gave a slower results than windows but was rock solid even on a beta version like 5.11.50B. So, whose mistake is it on linux? 100% it's nvidia.
It's all about drivers, look at pro vs consumer nvidia cards, physical difference is just 10%, while the major difference is in the drivers for the pro that makes these cards upto 4x the price of consumer cards.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Alternative OS - Drivers issue
by Shkaba on Sun 29th Oct 2006 19:22 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Alternative OS"
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

witrhout getting into details I will point out just the following facts:

1 - The reason why there are some devices that have no drivers (or buggy drivers) for linux is because of the nature of linux and its opennes. In other words Some of the manufacturers do not like the fact that the driver has to be open source and scrutinized by kernel developers before its inclusion.

There is nothing, and I repeat nothing that prevents manufacturers from ceating decent drivers except for their unwillingnes. And they will remain unwilling until they are faced with a growing pressure from customers.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Alternative OS
by tryphcycle on Mon 30th Oct 2006 19:54 UTC in reply to "Alternative OS"
tryphcycle Member since:
2006-02-16

Users have to emprace alternitive OSs before the manufactures do..... which i beleive Users are ambracing other OSs... maybe not as fast as some of us would like. but compare the computing world NOW... to say 7 years ago! 7 years ago... things looked Gloomy! it was windows, windows, windows... oh yea...and windows!

NOW... Linux is maturing as a desktop OS, and is user base is growning... Apple's OSX is gaining market share....

i would say, for the first time in a LONG TIME... things are looking up or Other OSs....

Reply Score: 1

My ACER TravelMate 4050...
by jebb on Sat 28th Oct 2006 19:56 UTC
jebb
Member since:
2006-07-06

...runs Linux.

Reply Score: 2

no problem, acer
by kiddo on Sat 28th Oct 2006 15:49 UTC
kiddo
Member since:
2005-07-23

Just make your "linpus linux" offering stand out in RED, BOLD LETTERS

http://global.acer.com/products/desktop/spec_desktops.htm

Yeah I know, your consumers will want Windows. Just show them the price difference. Is any Acer employee reading this comment?

Reply Score: 1

RE: no problem, acer
by twenex on Sat 28th Oct 2006 21:15 UTC in reply to "no problem, acer"
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

"linpus linux"

Hell, even I wouldn't buy a linux associated with pus. I'm no fan of the "there are too many linux distros" argument (when was the last time anyone said "there are too many IBM-compatible PC manufacters?" in 88, if ever), but this is a great boil on the face of the linux market, and it needs to be lanced.

Reply Score: 3

v Too many versions
by ronaldst on Sat 28th Oct 2006 21:59 UTC
React
by Eric Martin on Sat 28th Oct 2006 22:07 UTC
Eric Martin
Member since:
2005-11-11

They should go with ReactOS.

Add some security extras.

Reply Score: 2

I hate re-runs...
by cmost on Sat 28th Oct 2006 18:24 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

"Apart from security, the "typical consumer" still gets everything they got with XP Home plus highly visible features such as instant searching, DirectX 10, virtual folders, the new Windows Explorer, sidebar/widgets, Windows Mail, DVD maker, Calendar, Meeting Space, parental controls, and speech recognition and synthesis. Additionally, WMP 11 and IE 7 are installed out of the box."

Comparable features to these have been standard in free OS's such as Linux and BSD for many months now. Nothing here is worth paying Microsoft the outlandish asking price. Smart consumers who are willing to learn a new trick or two will recognize that a friendly consumer oriented Linux such as Linspire, Mandriva, Xandros, or especially SLED 10 will offer them much, much more value for their dollar. When one also considers that AIGLX/XGL & Compiz/Beryl accelerated desktops are becoming standard fare with many Linux distros while working well on older hardware and blowing Aero Glass out of the water, it gives one pause. Vista is old and obsolete even before its debut. I hope Microsoft has learned a valuable lesson with its myriad of 'Longhorn'/Vista delays: He who hesitates...

Reply Score: 2

RE: I hate re-runs...
by eMagius on Sat 28th Oct 2006 23:38 UTC in reply to "I hate re-runs..."
eMagius Member since:
2005-07-06

"Comparable features to these have been standard in free OS's such as Linux and BSD for many months now."

Off-topic.

For what it's worth, I've been running and administrating *nix (and a little OS X) for the last six years and I'm much more interested in Vista than in anything on the *nix side; even Vista Home Basic provides me a much more usable system than anything *nix has been able to provide.

In making the switch, I'm sure I'll miss all my scripting and command-line tools (until I learn PowerShell), but I'm also sure I won't miss KDE/Gnome/etc. with or without AIGLX/XGL/Compiz/Beryl.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: I hate re-runs...
by twenex on Sat 28th Oct 2006 23:45 UTC in reply to "RE: I hate re-runs..."
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

That's ok, I'm sure when I next install a Linux I won't miss paying $400 plus the cost of new hardware for functionality I can get with older hardware and AIGLX/XGL/Compiz/Beryl.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: I hate re-runs...
by unoengborg on Sun 29th Oct 2006 01:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I hate re-runs..."
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06

What people really miss, if they switch to Linux and other free OSes, are the windows applications.

Sure there are gimp on Linux that you could use instead of photoshop, but it still misses a feature or two. Even if gimp had all the features of photoshop, people would still miss it, as the cost of relearning is much higher than the cost of a windows or even a photoshop upgrade.

The same thing applies to many alternative Linux apps. Especially ones of high complexity. To be competitive, it is not enough for Linux+apps to be better than Windows+apps, it must be much better or people will pay and stay with Windows.

As an OS alone, Linux looks a lot more promising than Vista. It have a much faster rate of evolution than software from Microsoft, who knows what will be possible in Linux in a year, or even in six months. The current version allready blows at least the low end Vistas out of the water. The only thing that's missing is the applications.

So,lets hope more software gets ported to Linux. We really need to get some competition in the desktop software market. If Microsoft could annoy some hardware makers enough to bundle something other than Windows with their hardware that would be a step in the right direction, but I wouldn't have too much hope it will happen anytime soon.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: I hate re-runs...
by twenex on Sun 29th Oct 2006 15:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I hate re-runs..."
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

I can get Windows apps without buying Windows Vista, too.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: I hate re-runs...
by wirespot on Mon 30th Oct 2006 10:21 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I hate re-runs..."
wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

Since when's every PC user and his dog a Photoshop user? I have three things here that say Photoshop is irrelevant to the desktop debate.

1. Skills. I'm willing to bet that 99% of PC users out there don't really need Photoshop. They can do with something that offers simple photo effects, and they could definitely do with Gimp, which is about more than that.

2. The cost. Of the remaining 1%, those that are willing to shell out the hundreds of $$$ for Photoshop won't care about paying for Vista.

3. The portability. After all that you still think Photoshop+Linux is an issue, then be adviced that the latest Photoshop versions runs perfectly well under Wine on Linux.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: I hate re-runs...
by Shkaba on Sun 29th Oct 2006 01:22 UTC in reply to "RE: I hate re-runs..."
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

"even Vista Home Basic provides me a much more usable system than anything *nix has been able to provide."

I would love to see you try to prove this in a point to point manner, lets say VHB versus FC6 (cheapest edition Vs. free edition)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: I hate re-runs...
by eMagius on Sun 29th Oct 2006 01:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I hate re-runs..."
eMagius Member since:
2005-07-06

I would love to see you try to prove this in a point to point manner

I'm not clear on how I can "prove" my preference.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: I hate re-runs...
by Shkaba on Sun 29th Oct 2006 02:51 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I hate re-runs..."
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

I am a manager of information systems for a venture that owns 6 companies and I can not afford to be sentimental or emotional when making decisions, having said that, I have to take into account in what direction a company is going long term. That MS is a pure money grabing company became obvious when they changed policies regarding terminal service clients licensing. Everything since then has been about money, money, and more money. It wouldn't be so bad if it ended there. MS licensing is making less and less sense and is almost at the state when you need a lawyer to look after licensing. Marketing that they seem to employ most: "customers needs" has become a joke. Customers have demanded a "productivity suite" aka Office that is not locked with weird file formats, and what does MS do? They continue with their own agenda and in the process loose quite few accounts. For me the top of MS arrogance was wga. Not the idea of having customers authenticate for the n-th time in order to get upgrades, but the decietfullnes of rolling wga as a "critical update". That just blew me right away. I don't understand what the f*** were they thinking, how dare they LIE to their customers.

Nuff about the vendor. Lets look at the preferences and the business of proving them in a point to point format:

Vista costs money Fedora does not - I prefer the latter because I am cheap. (V:0 - F:1)

Vista provides better multimedia right out of the box then Fedora - I don't have any preference in this area as I don't use my workstation for multimedia, but in all fairness we should give this one to Vista (V:1 - F:1)

Fedora provides me with a way to substantialy change the kernel (not that I had to do this often ... once only) while Vista does not - Call me a control freak but I do prefer to have that capability (V:1 - F:2)

I can install Fedora as many times as I want to, no matter if I upgrade my hardware not so with Vista - One could say that I am oldfashioned but when I buy something it is my business, and mine alone what I do with it. (V:1 - F:3)

Once I download all the cd's for FC I can configure a box as: email server, db server, web server, workstation with productivity suite and development tools, etc. Vista does not give me anything else, I have to shell out more money for office and VS (one of the better MS products) and/or way more money for a server edition once they develop it and more money for an email server and some more money for a db server, not to mention a lawyer to look after licensing issues. - Did I mention that I am cheap. (V:1 - F:4)

Whenever I make a significant change on an MS box I have to restart. God, I hate that! With FC I don't have to do that - That is just MY preference so (V:1 - F:4)

I could go on but I am sure that you get the picture about what kind of a response I was expecting from you.

Edited 2006-10-29 02:59

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: I hate re-runs...
by shotsman on Sun 29th Oct 2006 07:02 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I hate re-runs..."
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

A few additional points

Vista will have a fairly steep (but releatively short) learning curve if you deploy it to users OOTB. This can be avoided by reverting to XP Classis or even Windows Classic GUI Styles. But why would you buy Vista and then turn off most of its USP's anyway?
Linux (eg FC6, Ubuntu etc) will indeed have a longer learning curve but you can setup the Desktop to look not that dissimilar to XP anyway. However the degree of customisation and if you take a little effort to put the users favourite Windows App into a WINE environment then you can gradually wean them off MS Products.
(V1: F1)

Costs of underlying H/W
There you are, you have a desktop that does its job with W2K and it is time to upgrade. Do you buy a shiny new one with Vista installed or do you add a bit or RAM and install FC6 etc and get two/three more years out of the PC? Just look at the bottom line of ROCI and I know which way my bean counters will go.
(V0:F2)

FC6 is a Alpha/Beta O/S
Good point this. In some ways, Vista is as well. No O/S is a completely finished work. IF you want O/S longevity in a supported environment the SLED/RHEL etc is the way to go long term. Cut your costs buy using these on ONLY MISSING Critical Systems(with paid for suppoty) and use FC6 or Ubuntu or even RHEL Like distros such as Centos on others. With OSS you can model your support costs according to Business risk. With Vista, you have to have MS involved as it is closed and with things like WGA and DRM embedded you are going to have to license every system which costs money that a small biz might not be willing to do
(V0:F1)

I am sure there are more.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: I hate re-runs...
by twenex on Sun 29th Oct 2006 14:02 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I hate re-runs..."
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

I am glad people are waking up to the fact that MS plain lie to their customers. I've had to endure funny looks when I point that out for 8 years - ever since I realized the gap between what MS were selling, and what 98 gave you.

Reply Score: 1

Setting the standards
by Matt24 on Sun 29th Oct 2006 00:20 UTC
Matt24
Member since:
2005-07-23

Apple may have a better OS on the market right now (that's debatable), <<<<<< ????????????????????


' but don't think for a second that if they eventually find themselves in Microsoft's current position of market domination that they will be any better than MS is today. '

As for dominating the marketplace: I prefer a higher standard.

Frontrow - (iLife / EyeTV / Roxio ) vs MCE: no comparison!

Reply Score: 1

All way off the mark..
by Mage66 on Sun 29th Oct 2006 17:49 UTC
Mage66
Member since:
2005-07-11

1. Comparing retail pricing of Windows Vista upgrades to supposedly "free" linux distros is a non-starter. Most people get Windows "free" with their new hardware. They don't buy Windows at retail and simply can't feel that they are paying anything for it no matter how much you explain that Windows is being paid for as part of the purchase price.

2. No other OS of ANY type is a drop-in replacement for Windows. Why? Because no other OS runs Windows Apps. Linux doesn't. MacOS X doesn't, BSD doesn't. People want to walk into CompUSA, Walmart, KMart, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc... And buy games or other software that just works. And right now... Windows is the only game in town. You simply can't buy apps for Linux in most stores. MacOS X has the #2 spot in Operating Systems for End-Users because you can buy apps in many stores for it, and many popular games and titles run on it.

Until Quicken, Quickbooks, Microsoft Office, TurboTax and many popular games appear on Linux and run exactly the same as the Windows versions... Linux isn't an option for most end-users.

All you Uber Geeks might have no problem substituting Open Office for MS Office, or some OSS Checkbook program for Quicken... But, that's not how Aunt Minnie thinks.

Until there's a Windows Clone OS (ReactOS someday, or someone gets WINE 99% there and bundles it with a Linux Distro), there's no real competitor for Windows.

I can do nearly everything I need to daily with MacOS X or Linspire/Freespire/Ubuntu/et al...

But, I have several games I love that I CAN'T play on *nix or MacOS X. So, guess what OS I use mainly?

And that's the bottom line.

It's not technical acumen that's going to win the day.

As Microsoft has proved... It's being good-enough, and being the standard that matters.

And Windows in any incarnation is all of that.

You can name a million ways MacOS X or *nix is better.

Users don't care about them. They care about being able to run their desired software.

And after all, that's the point of an OS. To run software. An OS has NEVER been the end. It's been the means to the end.

Reply Score: 4

RE: All way off the mark..
by Shkaba on Sun 29th Oct 2006 19:37 UTC in reply to "All way off the mark.."
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

Your remark about Aunt Minnie is funny but not applicable, since Aunt Minnie does not work in a larger office. While there are a lot of software that is available for MS there is quite a number of software that targets nix and also a large number of software that is OS independant. Most of these are enterprise class software so aunt Minnie wouldn't see any benefit from it. As for switching from one platform to the other and the learning curve involved, do not under estimate learning curve involved when upgrading office 2003 to office 2007. I would say it is same like switching from office 2003 to open office. And we all know that there is more choice outside of windows for ERP class software then in windows. What will happen if a number of coorporations start implementing linux. You will end up with a growing number of people who are fluent in linux usage, thus implementing it at home. This will lead to a growing user base, thus making linux a more attractive target for small app developers. The ball has already started to roll in that direction, and the impact players are not techie Joe working in his parents basement, but govt. agencies and companies with a large number of workstations. Funny thing is once a ball start rolling down the hill it just keeps gaining speed.

Reply Score: 1

RE: All way off the mark..
by netpython on Sun 29th Oct 2006 21:01 UTC in reply to "All way off the mark.."
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

1. Comparing retail pricing of Windows Vista upgrades to supposedly "free" linux distros is a non-starter.

windows XP?
I doubt Aunt minnie knows the difference between directx9 and directx10.Neither do a lot of people feel the logic ,if there's any,of upgrading.

Reply Score: 3

RE: All way off the mark..
by hal2k1 on Mon 30th Oct 2006 01:34 UTC in reply to "All way off the mark.."
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

"You simply can't buy apps for Linux in most stores"

No, but you can get them for free from repositories.

"And after all, that's the point of an OS. To run software. An OS has NEVER been the end. It's been the means to the end."

I downloaded and installed Kubuntu Edgy Eft (Kubuntu 6.10) recently. I had a bit of trouble initially with partitions and the installer, but a little bit of Knoppix (or other LiveCD) gave me a workaround, and after that it was way, way easier to install than any version of Windows. But the real kicker is this: over 20,000 packages available to install from the repositories.

Thats right, over 20,000. 20,000+ applications, all installable via a single easy-to-use GUI, all zero cost, all searchable with descriptions available before you download & try them out, and all guaranteed not to contain any malware.

So if you are correct, in that "And after all, that's the point of an OS. To run software." then it would seem that Windows is in big trouble.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: All way off the mark..
by NotParker on Mon 30th Oct 2006 03:15 UTC in reply to "RE: All way off the mark.."
NotParker Member since:
2006-06-01

I had a bit of trouble initially with partitions and the installer, but a little bit of Knoppix (or other LiveCD) gave me a workaround

Uh huh. Thats going to work for the average user ... NOT.

But the real kicker is this: over 20,000 packages available to install from the repositories.

How many are text editors? 14,453.

I'm sure Tucows has more freeware for Windows than that.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: All way off the mark..
by camo r on Mon 30th Oct 2006 05:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: All way off the mark.."
camo r Member since:
2005-08-26

To further your point, dslbroadband connections are not the defacto in many households. So going to a store and picking up a boxed copy of software is the only option.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: All way off the mark..
by wirespot on Mon 30th Oct 2006 11:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: All way off the mark.."
wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

I'm sure Tucows has more freeware for Windows than that.

For fun, I did a search and it turns out it's about the same amount: a bit over 20.000.

But this doesn't take into account any of the following:

1. Every last one of those Linux packages has a personal caretaker, that makes sure the package integrates well with the entire system. You can't make any assumption about the freeware on Tucows.

2. There's no spyware in any of the Linux packages. Period. Which can't be said for sure about the Tucows kits.

3. If you ever want to upgrade any of the Tucows kits you need to hunt it down and determine on your own whether there's an upgrade available. On Linux, you click a couple of buttons and the system upgrades everything to the latest.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: All way off the mark..
by NotParker on Mon 30th Oct 2006 18:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: All way off the mark.."
NotParker Member since:
2006-06-01

For fun, I did a search and it turns out it's about the same amount: a bit over 20.000.

How many of the Linux ones are duplicates? How many different eMacs clones are there ... for example.

Every last one of those Linux packages has a personal caretaker, that makes sure the package integrates well with the entire system.

Ha ha ha ha ha. You MUST be kidding!

There's no spyware in any of the Linux packages.

You've personnally reviewd all the code?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: All way off the mark..
by netpython on Mon 30th Oct 2006 18:32 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: All way off the mark.."
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

There's no spyware in any of the Linux packages.

With so many prying eyes world wide a spyware mechanism is hardly unnoticed don't you think?

Reply Score: 1

RE: All way off the mark..
by twenex on Mon 30th Oct 2006 11:13 UTC in reply to "All way off the mark.."
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

I haven't bought any software at a store since before I had Linux, or broadband; nor have many people I know. Yes, a lot of the software I have bought has been shareware - but sometimes it's more convenient to pay for VMware or Partition Magic over the net than it is to order a package and wait for it in the post or wait till I can get to the store (which isn't that often).

OK, games are an exception. But increasingly I would advise anyone wanting to have a games machine that's viable for more than five minutes to buy exactly that - and not a gaming PC.

Reply Score: 2

MS is on CRACK
by sp29 on Sun 29th Oct 2006 20:14 UTC
sp29
Member since:
2006-01-04

Vista Ultimate $450 or $599.00 for Mac Mini loaded with OS X(1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo 512MB memory 60GB hard drive).

MS is got to be kidding!

Reply Score: 1

RE: MS is on CRACK
by NotParker on Sun 29th Oct 2006 21:29 UTC in reply to "MS is on CRACK"
NotParker Member since:
2006-06-01

Vista Ultimate $450 or $599.00 for Mac Mini loaded with OS X(1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo 512MB memory 60GB hard drive).

MS is got to be kidding!


Actually Vista Ultimate as an upgrade will only be 259$ - all you've got to do is borrow a copy of Xp somewhere if you don't have one.

And 259 is about 2.5 years of OS X upgrades. 129 x 2.

And I'm sure Dell will see you Ultimate for way less than 450 packaged with a new PC.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: MS is on CRACK
by trinitrotolueen on Mon 30th Oct 2006 00:36 UTC in reply to "RE: MS is on CRACK"
trinitrotolueen Member since:
2006-10-03

And I'm sure Dell will see you Ultimate for way less than 450 packaged with a new PC.

Yes just like XP professional.

Reply Score: 2