Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 15th Nov 2006 20:04 UTC, submitted by fireball
ReactOS ReactOS, the open source implementation of a Windows XP/2003 compatible operating system, is announcing a start of a series of interviews with ReactOS developers. The first published interview features the project coordinator Aleksey Bragin. The ReactOS team plans to publish interviews on a weekly basis.
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What's the point of this project?
by tomcat on Wed 15th Nov 2006 23:19 UTC
tomcat
Member since:
2006-01-06

Personally, I think that this is a waste of resources. Rather than try to create a cheap knockoff of Windows, perhaps the better strategy would be to focus resources on making alternatives such as Linux better. After all, it's possible to run Windows apps under WINE or emulation (VMWare, etc) on other platforms. Why solidify Windows-esque OSes in the market, when you could be promoting 'nix alternatives?

Edited 2006-11-15 23:20

Reply Score: 0

Quip Member since:
2006-11-15

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, however the Reactos developers don't think it is a waste and I share that same view as well. They are committed to develop a FOSS windows compatible operating system.

Anyway, I really enjoyed the interview and I can't wait to see more down the road.

Edited 2006-11-15 23:44

Reply Score: 5

Alleister Member since:
2006-05-29

Wine practical runs no Windows software at all. The very few programs supported are an exeption and usually because wine was tweaked to run them, which is bad because it shows that it's generell compatibility is close to nonexistent.

VMWare is a nice solution for ISPs to offer different OSes as an provider option but it is close to useless for the desktop. Not only doesn't it make the slightest bit of sense to switch away from Windows just to stay with windows in an emulated environment but it is also useless for many types of applications plus it is an expensive and slow solution.

So how do the options you mentioned make reactos an waste of resources?

Reply Score: 2

thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14

Wine practical runs no Windows software at all.

That's not true, welcome to 2006.

Reply Score: 5

Alleister Member since:
2006-05-29

Well, not a single programm i tryed this year worked on wine. Even some that have been reported to work.
Usually the reason behind this is that i used original software instead of cracked stolen apps. Other times it was because a silver status meant "does't work, but probably could get fixed in wine easily - but noone fixes it".

So welcome to the reality side of year 2006... Wine is far from beeing windows compatible.

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Wine practical runs no Windows software at all.

Well, it's a good thing ReactOS doesn't use Wine in any way, shape or form then... because that would make ReactOS just as incompatible

</sarcasm>

Fact is, ReactOS and Wine are attached at the hip.

Reply Score: 4

Alleister Member since:
2006-05-29

Wine does have to do much more abstraction work then Reactos, because they actually try to map windows functionality to existing Linux functionality while Reactos simply tryes to offer an completly compatible environment.

So Reactos has a chance to be compatible some day, while the same is rather unlikely for Wine.

And Reactos *does not* use Wine, they just cooperating at librarys.

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

And Reactos *does not* use Wine, they just cooperating at librarys.

ReactOS very much uses Wine - they sync with Wine code all the time (just look through their changelogs).. Maybe your definition of "use" is different than mine - but if you use code from a project, you're using that project I think.

So basically what you meant to say was "Wine by itself doesn't run much windows software" - which would be a more correct statement... and it really wasn't meant to - thus all the confusion here. Wine is mostly an open-source reimplementation of Windows APIs and libraries. It is not an OS.

Edit: typo

Edited 2006-11-16 20:45

Reply Score: 1

Alleister Member since:
2006-05-29

"ReactOS very much uses Wine - they sync with Wine code all the time (just look through their changelogs).. Maybe your definition of "use" is different than mine - but if you use code from a project, you're using that project I think."

Which doesn't mean that they inherit their compatibility problems, if those problems don't arise from those parts that they are using. That is rather obvious, isn't it?

What i mean by not using wine is, they don't just run an arbitrary OS and Wine on top of that. They using parts of the wine Librarys but they don't use their Linux abstraction layer which is likely the source of most compatibiltiy issues.

"So basically what you meant to say was "Wine by itself doesn't run much windows software" - which would be a more correct statement... and it really wasn't meant to - thus all the confusion here. Wine is mostly an open-source reimplementation of Windows APIs and libraries. It is not an OS."

Ahhh ok, now i understand. They don't want to archieve compatibiltiy, they just think that ugly dated WinAPI is sooo beautifull. Now that makes sense.

Reply Score: 1

petera Member since:
2006-04-22

I suppose it's the same reason there are loads of Linux distros or some people (like me) build their own PC's while it can be cheaper to buy a Dell one.
These people like Windows, they like the software, but they don't like the fact that they cannot control what happens inside Windows.
This way if something breaks, they can fix it and if they want to add a new feature, they can but they don't have to lobby software companies to make a OS compatable Photoshop or Office suite as they can go to a shop and buy it.
And that last point is why I think they don't code to Linux ;)

Reply Score: 4

Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Or these people don't like Windows and its licences etc but they do like Windows software.

Reply Score: 3

Mage66 Member since:
2005-07-11

ReactOS uses and contribute back to the WINE project.

So, in developing ReactOS, they ARE making Linux better.

And when done, ReactOS will breathe life into millions of older computers that won't run a current version of Windows and aren't worth purchasing a license for.

I've got a ton of systems I could give away if I had a legal copy of Windows to load on it. ReactOS could be that.

Reply Score: 1

mmebane Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, actually, Wine doesn't accept anything back from ReactOS, because they fear its development methods may not be entirely legal in the US.

Edited 2006-11-16 17:11

Reply Score: 1

jessta Member since:
2005-08-17

The architecture of Windows NT is quite nice.
It would be nice to have a Java, Python, etc subsystem running on an NT kernel for support for all that hardware that only has drivers for windows.

Reply Score: 1

BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Perhaps they prefer a Windows style OS, with all the commercial apps that go with it. Not everyone thinks Linux is the end all in OS design.

Reply Score: 3

Phloptical Member since:
2006-10-10

There are thousands, and thousands of apps out there that are Windows only and Wine won't run. Remember Lindows (Freespire)? Wasn't that touted to be Linux that's able to run MS programs in the beginning?

VMWare, in your example, is pretty much useless too considering you still need to purchase a license from MS in order to run the virtual machine.

I think ReactOS is a valid idea to act as a go-between for the Windows users of the world and those that are OSS only. This should help the "chickan and the egg" syndrome that Linux has.....few apps because there are so few users, and so few users because there are few apps. Personally, I think it's an uphill battle for the ReactOS crowd. MS isn't going to allow them to eat their lunch for very long.

And, yes, I know there are repositories of open source software (Table of Equivalents list) but there's still Windows-only apps out there that a lot people want to run.

Reply Score: 1

RE: What's the point of this project?
by Coviti on Thu 16th Nov 2006 00:34 UTC
Coviti
Member since:
2006-07-15

One point you're not thinking of here... What about drivers? ReactOS will run Windows applications *and* drivers (which will allow Windows-specific devices to run with it). WINE (as far as I know) has no plans to implement this.

Reply Score: 2

Thinking of the users
by nathbeadle on Thu 16th Nov 2006 00:39 UTC
nathbeadle
Member since:
2006-08-08

I'm for ReactOS and find that first comment by tomcat totally missing the point of this project.

If anyone should focus on more *nix projects, it should be the hundreds of those out there forking distros and changing a program or two!!

ReactOS provides a MS alternative WITHOUT making basic users have to go through *nix shells and config files for WINE and other compatibility software whereas ReactOS will just let you use your windows software right away. This is a great project and I'm for it!!

Reply Score: 5

I agree ReactOS is cool
by destraht on Thu 16th Nov 2006 01:11 UTC in reply to "Thinking of the users"
destraht Member since:
2006-08-07

I think that the project has huge potential. If the ReactOS and Wine people can work together this project has the potential to make wine more flexible and powerful. I think that there should be an emphasis between the two projects on making the code so that it can be put in three categories: Wine specific, ReactOS specific, and sharable. I've never looked at the code for either project but it just seems smart to me.

Maybe they should even have a sharable source repository between the two projects where they can argue about what comes and what goes? I'm not sure how winelib would play into this. Who knows maybe that wouldn't get along or have much too different goals?

I'm drawing this picture from what I know about Google's Picasa Linux port. They basically took a subset of wine and statically compiled it all together and just tweaked a few user interface issues to make it integrate with the desktop more. Also Transgaming is advertising that they offer professional services to Windows game makers that allow them to basically do the same thing with for Macintosh. I don't really like how Transgaming stole wine in the beginning and closed sourced it but,.., the approach is sound.

Basically trying to make sense of all of this. Wine could become very flexible. Run the code with a ReactOS kernel for a full Windows environment. If you want to port Win32 software to another environment use wine and statically link it with a subset of wine. Or just use to run the program on a *NIX system with the traditional wine.

Reply Score: 2

RE: I agree ReactOS is cool
by brewin on Thu 16th Nov 2006 01:31 UTC in reply to "I agree ReactOS is cool"
brewin Member since:
2005-06-30

From the ReactOS FAQ:

Why don't you help develop Wine/Linux instead?

This is a very common FAQ, so it's placed in User FAQ also (and technical answer is given in Developer FAQ).

ReactOS works very closely with Wine, and thus both projects actually benefit from each other. We have several developers in both the WINE and ReactOS projects that work on cross-compatibility issues between the two projects.

It is our view that Linux + Wine can never be a full replacement for Microsoft(R) Windows(R). ReactOS has the potential for a much higher degree of compatibility - especially for Microsoft(R) Windows(R) drivers - which WINE does not address.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I agree ReactOS is cool
by mike_m on Thu 16th Nov 2006 02:08 UTC in reply to "RE: I agree ReactOS is cool"
mike_m Member since:
2005-08-30

> ReactOS works very closely with Wine

This is untrue.

"No ReactOS-derived code will be accepted in Wine at this point." - Alexandre Julliard

http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2006-June/048553.html

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: I agree ReactOS is cool
by Soulbender on Thu 16th Nov 2006 05:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I agree ReactOS is cool"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

You do understand that there are other ways to work closely together than accepting eachothers code, right?

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: I agree ReactOS is cool
by umccullough on Thu 16th Nov 2006 06:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I agree ReactOS is cool"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Not to mention - while it might be a one-way deal right now (ReactOS using Wine code) - it was very much a 2-way street until the "audit fiasco" back in 2005...

So for several years before that, Wine actually DID use some of the ReactOS code.

There also is no permanent statement here - only that the current situation with the "validity" of ReactOS code is preventing the Wine folks from accepting anything back for the moment. I suspect if the ReactOS code went through enough scrutiny from non-biased parties - Wine would gladly start accepting it again.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Thinking of the users
by ferrels on Thu 16th Nov 2006 19:29 UTC in reply to "Thinking of the users"
ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

We don't need no forkin' distros!! :-)

Reply Score: 2

Huge potential
by bailey86 on Thu 16th Nov 2006 09:57 UTC
bailey86
Member since:
2005-10-14

I have clients who currently use XP on their desktops.

Now in a couple of years time XP will be dumped. Then my clients will have a choice.

1. Buy dozens of new PC's to run Vista as the current PC's are not capable of running Vista. Then go through the hassle of setting them up to work on the domain.

2. Install Reactos on all PC's which has been tested on a couple of test machines.

If Reactos can be made to work well with Ghost or some something similar it will give a real option for the corprates.

It would also need to be able to work with a Windows style domain (possibly using Samba) - not sure the current status with Reactos.

Reply Score: 1

v ReactOS compatibility?
by mike_m on Fri 17th Nov 2006 08:20 UTC
RE: ReactOS compatibility?
by Alleister on Fri 17th Nov 2006 15:15 UTC in reply to "ReactOS compatibility?"
Alleister Member since:
2006-05-29

have a closer look at appdb... silver status means does *NOT* work, but might be easily fixed if someone fixes it... and *NOONE* usually fixes it.
There are only a handfull off Apps that have GOLD status, which means "it might work (more or less) if you are very lucky".

Whats especially funny is, the apps Wine get tweaked to run usually have good OSS counterparts.

Reply Score: 1