Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 5th Dec 2006 22:47 UTC
SkyOS SkyOS has gotten a new virtual filesystem, dubbed BranchFS. This makes it possible to branch filesystems, convert read-only media into read-write media, and add SkyFS attributes to non-SkyFS volumes. "BranchFS makes it possible to make a reversible filesystem. By using your system partition you can revert to a previous state (with just one reboot) and and when using a CD BranchFS makes it possible to make changes to the content. BranchFS is still in heavy development but branching a LiveCD works quite well already. The first SkyOS LiveCD will be based on BranchFS."
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I'm gonna have to buy this
by tbcpp on Tue 5th Dec 2006 22:55 UTC
tbcpp
Member since:
2006-02-06

This is insane, I'm going to have to buy a copy of this OS just for the fact of supporting the guy. These guys seem to be adding a new feature every week! Keep it up!

Reply Score: 5

RE
by Kroc on Tue 5th Dec 2006 22:56 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

It's good to see innovation happening in a small hobby OS. Kind of puts Microsoft and their failed WinFS in perspective.

BTW, '...reboot) and and when...'

Reply Score: 5

RE
by kamil_chatrnuch on Wed 6th Dec 2006 13:57 UTC in reply to "RE"
kamil_chatrnuch Member since:
2005-07-07

i'm too amazed by the pace and amount of work done by Robert, but can you please elaborate, how is a virtual filesystem something new or innovative?
virtual filesystems are a common thing in unix, linux, windows, etc.

Reply Score: 2

How does Robert do this?
by Dima on Tue 5th Dec 2006 23:07 UTC
Dima
Member since:
2006-04-06

I'm confused... There are so many people working on the Linux kernel, and many more working on X, KDE, GNOME, etc. - and yet, Robert and his team of like 5 people seem to be adding way more exciting features of SkyOS.

SkyOS now has so many device drivers, cool UI, applications that work consistently. How is this possible?

Reply Score: 5

RE: How does Robert do this?
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 5th Dec 2006 23:15 UTC in reply to "How does Robert do this?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Focus and no worries over politics.

Edited 2006-12-05 23:15

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: How does Robert do this?
by ronaldst on Tue 5th Dec 2006 23:57 UTC in reply to "RE: How does Robert do this?"
ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

That's the best way to move and grow!

Politics ruins everything.

Reply Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Politics ruins everything.

SkyOS is basically a dictatorship. Annoying at times, but darn productive.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: How does Robert do this?
by Kroc on Wed 6th Dec 2006 00:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: How does Robert do this?"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: How does Robert do this?
by helf on Wed 6th Dec 2006 00:29 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: How does Robert do this?"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

Nice quote ;)

Yes, having a leader that controls everything keeps the pace up. It's quite refreshing.

I really need to buy a copy.

Reply Score: 2

TerryADavis Member since:
2006-12-01

The best argument for democracy is you get what you deserve.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: How does Robert do this?
by kaiwai on Wed 6th Dec 2006 10:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: How does Robert do this?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I wouldn't call it a dictatorship; what I would call it is a small group of very skilled programmers who have layed out the direction in where they're heading; rather than throwing things at a problem and seeing what sticks; they see a problem, sit down, write a white paper, design it, and then implement it.

The problem with the Linux world, there are some good ideas (ALSA), but at the same time time there are situations where things are just abandoned - Rhythmbox and Pan Usenet Client being two prime examples of abandonware.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: How does Robert do this?
by smashIt on Wed 6th Dec 2006 00:09 UTC in reply to "RE: How does Robert do this?"
smashIt Member since:
2005-07-06

Focus and no worries over politics.

no worries over politics?
the political situation in austria is a real mess right now. even if robert is not worried about it, he probably is pissed off about the sp÷/÷vp disaster...

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: How does Robert do this?
by zizban on Wed 6th Dec 2006 00:19 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: How does Robert do this?"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

That's politics in large project or an open source development enviroment, not politics in his home country.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: How does Robert do this?
by stestagg on Wed 6th Dec 2006 12:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: How does Robert do this?"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

Haha. that explains why the American developers have such a hard time getting any work done. :p

Reply Score: 1

RE: How does Robert do this?
by mmebane on Tue 5th Dec 2006 23:45 UTC in reply to "How does Robert do this?"
mmebane Member since:
2005-07-06

It's a designed system, not people trying to make highly portable components or cobbling together these portable components.

Reply Score: 5

RE: How does Robert do this?
by Lakedaemon on Tue 5th Dec 2006 23:47 UTC in reply to "How does Robert do this?"
Lakedaemon Member since:
2005-08-07

Passion...and skill...

Another explanation might be that Robert is many ^_^
(like Shakespeare is rumoured to be)

In fact the "Robert" name hides an army of little leprechauns that works diligently at night when everyone is asleep to bring software goodness to SkyOs

Personnaly, I really hope it goes on forever like this (but I guess that at some point some bitter fellow will phone the Association of Defense of Leprechauns rights and tell them about how he abuse them

(At the pace SkyOS get features, I would bet that they work all day for no fee and that they only get 1 minute break every week to go pee and 20 minutes at christmas to go and visit their families)

Edited 2006-12-05 23:51

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: How does Robert do this?
by Kelly Rush on Wed 6th Dec 2006 00:53 UTC in reply to "RE: How does Robert do this?"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

"Personnaly, I really hope it goes on forever like this..."

Well I'll say one thing: there's definitely at least one big reason in the books for this development (tentatively, anyway). ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: How does Robert do this?
by rajj on Wed 6th Dec 2006 01:16 UTC in reply to "How does Robert do this?"
rajj Member since:
2005-07-06

Way more features? I hardly think so.

Each of the projects you cited have only a small handful of core committers that make major architectural decisions with many others contributing small improvements and bug fixes. This is the way most Open Source projects are.

So, it's not that unusual that a single person can make so much progress, and this especially so when most of the hard research work has been done for you. Lets be honest, SkyOS isn't breaking any new ground here. It's just yet another operating system with a process scheduler, memory management and a filesystem. Hell, it claims to use a POSIX API so it's already half way to being yet another UNIX.

Not much else can be said about its design since nobody other than its creator knows anything about such details.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: How does Robert do this?
by Ronald Vos on Wed 6th Dec 2006 17:48 UTC in reply to "RE: How does Robert do this?"
Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

You're right, SkyOS doesn't tread new ground. A responsive system under heavy loads, a nice clean API, advanced feature integration (like using a browser or videoplayer as a widget) and user-friendlyness aren't new.

If only anything on Linux came even close though..

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: How does Robert do this?
by Redeeman on Wed 6th Dec 2006 21:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: How does Robert do this?"
Redeeman Member since:
2006-03-23

you are right, NOTHING on linux comes close to it, this is why kde isnt responsive under load, it doesent have a good api either, and certainly not good integration with kparts (widgets) that can be embedded, its not userfriendly either, you must give all commands to it in simplified chinese, written as raw bits on a special keyboard only featuring a 0 and 1 button ;)

oh wait, i forgot, kde really does have all this, and oh wait, it also runs on linux.

Reply Score: 2

Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

Alright, come on guys. Linux does some things nice, some things not. SkyOS is the same way. Everything has its nuances. It shouldn't be a battle; Linux should take ideas from SkyOS to make itself better, and vice-versa. I actually last week installed Ubuntu (first time using Linux in about three years), just because I had heard great things about it, to see if I could come up with any new ideas for Robert to try. I've seen a lot of cool things, and a lot of things that could be improved. The same holds true for SkyOS, MacOS X, and even Windows XP (all of which I use on a regular basis (read at least once a day)).

With many and varying choices for systems to use, there should be no losers; the only winners, in the end, should be the consumers, who are able to pick from many options and find the one that suits them best.

\Message posted from Ubuntu Linux, but it just as easily could have been SkyOS, MacOS X, or Windows XP. ;)

Reply Score: 2

cdwrite
by zhulien on Wed 6th Dec 2006 01:04 UTC
zhulien
Member since:
2006-12-06

sounds like it has something in common with CDWrite
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/cdwrite.html

Reply Score: 1

v Another name...
by hobgoblin on Wed 6th Dec 2006 02:33 UTC
@hobgoblin
by GregV on Wed 6th Dec 2006 05:06 UTC
GregV
Member since:
2005-07-06

This discussion has occured many times before (with the same result every time), please take up any issues you have with the SkyOS team. You can do so in the forums or in the IRC channel.

Reply Score: 3

Wild!
by betson on Wed 6th Dec 2006 05:20 UTC
betson
Member since:
2005-12-17

The lead coder on SkyOS makes a lot of progress in a very short period of time. I think he has serious dedication to be working on a project like SkyOS when its obvious he could be putting his coding talents elsewhere and making a *lot* of money. I know I'd charge out the wazoo if I could pump out stable and working code at the demonic pace he does.

It's great to watch SkyOS grow: its kind of like watching a single-celled organism evolve into a human -- oops, er, sorry, "mindless ape."

Really, really good stuff here.

Reply Score: 3

v If only...
by mcduck on Wed 6th Dec 2006 06:42 UTC
RE: If only...
by suryad on Wed 6th Dec 2006 13:54 UTC in reply to "If only..."
suryad Member since:
2005-07-09

Eh the thread was going good and until there was a post about open sourcing this...why do they have to open source it? THey are not writign it for you you know. They are doing it because of their passion and dedication for the project. Many people are quite happy with the closed source model. THey pay the os authors get a copy and off they go to enjoy the os's features. What is so wrong with not being open sourced?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: If only...
by Hans on Wed 6th Dec 2006 15:40 UTC in reply to "RE: If only..."
Hans Member since:
2006-04-21

... What is so wrong with not being open sourced?

IMO there is nothing wrong with not being open source. Closed standards on the other hand are bad!

Personally I'll not go back to closed source. I've learned my lessons coming from Amiga and then Windows.

Reply Score: 1

...
by Tuishimi on Wed 6th Dec 2006 14:42 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

"What is so wrong with not being open sourced?"

Nothing is wrong with it not being open sourced. That's just a "saying" these days. "Wow, the only thing that could make that better is to 'Open Source' it!"

I am going to start using that phrase for everything. "Gee honey! This was the best meal ever. The only thing that could make it better is if you open source it!"

Reply Score: 5

RE: ...
by stestagg on Wed 6th Dec 2006 14:51 UTC in reply to "..."
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

Heinz Open Sauce. 5,000,000 varieties ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: ...
by korpenkraxar on Wed 6th Dec 2006 15:57 UTC in reply to "..."
korpenkraxar Member since:
2005-09-10

Alternatively, "Gee honey! This was the best meal ever. The only thing that could make it better is if you outsource it!"

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: ...
by Tuishimi on Wed 6th Dec 2006 16:06 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

No thank you. ;) I want to live at home!

Reply Score: 2

Dictatorship in software design is good.
by Kishe on Wed 6th Dec 2006 16:51 UTC
Kishe
Member since:
2006-02-16

Linux's problem is, it's kind of rhetorically a bowl of soup with hundred chefs.

Robert does his decisions alone and/or inside tiny group of chosen few...that way decisions are made fast when every change to the code doesnt have to go through 900 others.

Reply Score: 4

Alex Forster Member since:
2005-08-12

As someone pretty close to this project: you're dead on.

Reply Score: 1

Trial Version
by kwanbis on Wed 6th Dec 2006 18:19 UTC
kwanbis
Member since:
2005-07-06

I feel they should release at least a 30 days trial version. I'm not going to pay for something that i can't make sure it works on my PC.

Reply Score: 1

re: Trial Version
by helf on Wed 6th Dec 2006 19:29 UTC
helf
Member since:
2005-07-06

for all we know, there WILL be a trial of some sort once it goes gold. lik, say, a liveCD version or some such. right now its still in beta, so they have no need to put extra effort into a trial version.

Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 95; PalmSource; Blazer 3.0) 16;160x160

Reply Score: 3

RE: re: Trial Version
by kwanbis on Thu 7th Dec 2006 00:03 UTC in reply to "re: Trial Version"
kwanbis Member since:
2005-07-06

yes, but how long has it been in beta?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: re: Trial Version
by Kelly Rush on Thu 7th Dec 2006 00:22 UTC in reply to "RE: re: Trial Version"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

Who says there won't be a LiveCD before it matures past beta...

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: re: Trial Version
by kwanbis on Thu 7th Dec 2006 02:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: re: Trial Version"
kwanbis Member since:
2005-07-06

i'm just asking for a test cd ... it looks really cool, but it's imposible to test ... maybe if they had a beta live cd, i would test it, and then buy the beta.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: re: Trial Version
by Kelly Rush on Thu 7th Dec 2006 04:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: re: Trial Version"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

To be perfectly honest, SkyOS just isn't at a state at present where having a LiveCD would give any sort of a meaningful experience with the system. A LiveCD has been a very popular request, and while certainly the BranchFS that has just been implemented is a step towards this goal, the simple fact of the matter is that other parts of the system need to mature a bit more before we are ready to make it available, "en masse". ;)

But don't worry, we're listening... ;)

Reply Score: 1

Innovation?
by saxiyn on Thu 7th Dec 2006 02:34 UTC
saxiyn
Member since:
2005-07-08

This is not an innovation. "Branching", more usally called "union mount", is a well known concept. Using it to implement LiveCD is a commonplace. Actually, union mount was available in the system as old as 4.4 BSD!

See http://www.am-utils.org/project-unionfs.html for an implementation of this idea for Linux. Its homepage lists 30 Linux LiveCD projects already using it.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Innovation?
by mikesum32 on Thu 7th Dec 2006 05:27 UTC in reply to "Innovation?"
mikesum32 Member since:
2005-10-22

That's first thing I thought of.

It's slightly annoying that Robert renames an existing technology.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Innovation?
by Kelly Rush on Thu 7th Dec 2006 06:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Innovation?"
Kelly Rush Member since:
2005-06-30

I don't think Robert ever claimed to have "invented" this idea...

Additionally, it's just a name, a way for us to refer to this technology as it is presented in SkyOS. There are thousands of different processes and sub-systems in SkyOS, and naming them something unique is a good way of keeping them straight.

Reply Score: 1