As part of the 2.6.20 development process, patches adding support for the 'PS3 game console and other devices' (built on top of the IBM Cell) have been merged. The code has been written by Sony.
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Member since:
2006-04-18
Member since:2006-05-26
You know what? You're absolutely right! They shouldn't have released *ANYTHING* to the world at large, since it's all political! That way, nobody would be complaining "But they limited us by only supporting the simplest possible, but most resource-wasteful way of doing things!"
Well, hey: if you're so intent on actually *DOING* anything with the PS3, grab one, grab the little code that Sony provided, and reverse engineer what you don't have documentation on, just like so much other hardware in the computer world has done for it, because little or no vendor documentation or external support exists.
Keep in mind Sony isn't making money off of selling either the Linux code or any systems sold purely for use by Linux geeks: they currently only make money on selling enough games via licensing. Sooner or later their costs may be lower than the sales price, but that'll be awhile, and what's the probability that a Linux user will pay for anything they can avoid paying for?
Member since:2006-01-16
Member since:2005-07-06
"what's the probability that a Linux user will pay for anything they can avoid paying for?"
Rather high, actually. I don't get the "Linux users are cheapskates" meme at all. If it were actually true, tons of companies would never have survived - Mandriva, Linspire, Xandros, SUSE before they were bought out. We all live on the revenue produced by perfectly normal Linux users who choose to buy something they could avoid buying - a Linux distribution.
Member since:2006-03-23
Member since:2006-03-23
Member since:2006-02-15
Maybe not Linux users at large but at least the zelots would.
I don't see the logic behind this. I'd imagine especially zealots want to support Linux in any way they can, and as such, paying for their distro of choice and any useful apps. Sure, almost everything is available for free but how can you explain that pay-for distros like Mandriva/Fedora/SuSE/etc continue to thrive? Because, although almost everything is free, the companies behind those distros bundle everything together in a nice, pretty, useable package worth paying for.
Also individual apps, like Pixel, seem to be doing perfectly fine.
I wish you'd explain your comments, or shut up about things you don't know about.
EDIT: just thought to add that although I'll never own a PS3 myself, it's pretty nice from Sony to add support in Linux kernel for PS3. Atleast it doesn't hurt anyone.
Edited 2006-12-06 23:02
Member since:2006-02-06
Sure, let me explain. My view on linux is, I don't care if it has binary blobs in it or not, as long as it works. But there are some who are never happy unless the whole OS is 100% open. These are the people who don't like nvidia's stance of only releasing binary drivers. These are trying to update the GPL to make it so nvidia can't do this. And this is the reason I'm thinking of moving to BSD.
All that aside, I'm in support for this, but what I'm reacting to is the notion of "they didn't give us everything, so we won't take anything" view that many have about the PS3
Member since:2006-02-15
100% open-source zealots are a completely different thing than Linux zealots. Besides, those who want everything to be 100% open can still pay for their distro of choice etc. It doesn't mean they want everything for free. So I kind of missed the point.
Anyway, as for me, I don't care if it is all open or not, as long as it is quality.
Member since:2006-03-12
"100% open-source zealots are a completely different thing than Linux zealots. Besides, those who want everything to be 100% open can still pay for their distro of choice etc. It doesn't mean they want everything for free. So I kind of missed the point."
Please don't use the word zealot. Its not appropriate. It is true that there are two different "opinions" on binary code, and most of the reasons are not "political", but are about long-term support, bug-fixing, new features, and security.
A good example would be the r200 based ati cards under linux, which have had support "dropped" by ati, and yet the open-source drivers will run AIGLX/Beryl which the binary drivers will not run even on there newest cards.
Member since:2005-11-05
Open Source and Free Software are NOT the same thing... Richard Stallman himself states that he is in no way connected to "The Open Source Movement".
When you say 100% open-source zealots, you are actually meaning the free software zealots. Please get the terms correct. I am an "open source zealot" and could care less if my workstation runs flash or acrobat reader. The same goes for the non-free broadcomm firmware I load for one of my laptop's wireless cards to work.
Open source is a superior development model which often results in incredible code. Free software is a philosophy. OSS and free software have similar goals, and different means of reaching those goals. Please do not confuse them if you don't fully understand them.
Member since:2006-03-12
"Sure, let me explain. My view on linux is, I don't care if it has binary blobs in it or not, as long as it works. But there are some who are never happy unless the whole OS is 100% open. These are the people who don't like nvidia's stance of only releasing binary drivers. These are trying to update the GPL to make it so nvidia can't do this. And this is the reason I'm thinking of moving to BSD."
Reasons to care.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/17/nvidia_linux_graphics_bug/
Member since:2006-02-15
Reasons to care.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/17/nvidia_linux_graphics_bug/
Wow. One bad bug. Like 100% open software never has bugs? Come up with some actually compelling reason..Btw, having open-source drivers doesn't mean they'll be perfect either. Like for example my Radeon 9100 doesn't have TV-out or pixel shader support when using the open r200 driver.
Member since:2005-07-22
Member since:2005-08-18
Member since:2006-03-12
"what's the probability that a Linux user will pay for anything they can avoid paying for?"
"Good thing Windows users don't rampantly pirate software because they all love to pay for their stuff. Right? Right? 
"
I don't like this kink of blatant mud-slinging. I think you miss the point.
Linux has not got a lot of games; Windows does not have a lot of games; Consoles have the games.
The reality is this device fulfills a niche for those, who run linux; want a powerful machine cheap; want to play the latest games.
For the first time *ever* linux users have the best of both worlds, and a combination that Microsoft users can only dream about. People forget that when the original xbox was launched there was much discussion about xbox compatible motherboards.
Member since:2005-07-01
You move a Window? CPU has to move every f*cking pixel in the framebuffer itself!
Well, my Athlon 64 3000+ has had to do that on occasion and it ain't so painful. I'll wait for complaints from people who've actually _used_ Linux on the PS3 thanks.
This seems to be a political decision.
You seem to have confused business with politics. I can't believe I have to say this to someone, but there's more to Linux than games!
Member since:2005-07-07
Member since:2006-01-16
Member since:2006-11-07
Member since:2006-06-13
"Their support for Linux sucks...
SNIP
... it's nearly useless. "
You know what? I can't be alone in feeling sick to death of these instant negative rants which appear in response to ANYTHING Sony does right now. Generally they also come from people who have no real 1st hand experience with the subject matter and add nothing whatsoever to the discussion at all.
I find it rather amusing that you went to edit your post and failed to make the only one sensible change: deletion.
I have Linux running on my PS3 right now. It's far from useless.
Member since:2005-08-18
"I can't be alone in feeling sick to death of these instant negative rants which appear in response to ANYTHING Sony does right now."
Geee, that couldn't possibly be Sony's own fault, could it? They couldn't possibly have brought it on themselves, right?
I mean, secretly putting root kits on peoples computers, shipping laptop batteries that explode, shutting down companies (Lik Sang, ElectricBirdland) that (*GASP*) sell Japanese PSP's to Europe, shipping bad optical drives in PS2, none of that is any reason for people to be pissed off at Sony, right?
It is so unfair of people to critizise such a fine company that obviously really value it's consumers...
Edited 2006-12-07 04:15
Member since:2006-03-12
"Geee, that couldn't possibly be Sony's own fault, could it? They couldn't possibly have brought it on themselves, right?"
Microsoft
=========
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft
Nintendo
========
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/06/19/nintendo_wins_liksang_pirac...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/02/08/nintendo_legal_rumblings_pr...
etc etc.
These are not *nice* companies. If you are trying to spend your money with the good guys, your out of luck.
Member since:2005-08-18
Member since:2006-03-12
"I must have missed the part (maybe it was ghostwritten?) where I said you should only spend your money on the good guys and that we shouldnt' criticize Nintendo and Microsoft."
Then why did you post it then? If your reasons aren't conscientious. Clearly there must be another reason for your bias. Perhaps you should have posted that instead 
You should definitely post it now.
Edited 2006-12-07 05:11
Member since:2005-08-18
Member since:2006-03-12
So i'll explain
Large Corporations do bad things. They are not evil in nature. They are the way they are because they want money, and will do whatever they can to get it.
Sony putting Linux on the PS3 is a good thing, for users like me. Sony are not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They are doing it for money.
They will get a lot of good publicity and they will get it from a very small, but vocal community.
They will get an awful lot of press regarding how powerful the PS3 is.
They will even sell more consoles. Pushing BlueRay into the technical community.
You have to be very naive to believe in trust.
Member since:2005-07-08
Member since:
2006-02-06
Like I've said a thousand times, the lack of graphics accelleration really doesn't matter. The Cell has 4GB/sec transfer speed to the framebuffer which means that it redraw the screen ~800 times a seccond. It's only a matter of time till someone releases a SPE accelerated Mesa library for the PS3, and then we'll see gfx speeds at least as good a a GeForceFX.
Member since:2005-11-15
Member since:
2005-12-15
Putting whatever Sony's intentions are aside, for the open source software, this is a positive thing. Maybe it's not perfect upon release and you want or expected more from Sony, but keep in mind that the Linux kernel wasn't perfect with every needed feature upon it's initial releases. The "OSS movement" seems to be based on a "release more, release often" or something similiar to that.
Do I care for this release in the sense of actually using it at this time..? No, but I am mindful that it's the incremental releases of OSS that has made it possible for greater competition and arguably better services and/or software as a result.
Get some perspective and realise that even for the biggest of organisations, producing complete quality software is a challenge. Also keep in mind, you haven't been charged for this either.
Member since:
2005-07-24
I'm not sure whether to love them or hate them.
They implement DRM, install root-kits on unsuspecting customers' computers, and manufacture batteries that are so defective that they could actually kill.
http://www.theinquirer.net/images/articles/dell%20banger1.jpg
http://www.theinquirer.net/images/articles/dell%20banger2.jpg
And deny it all until they can't reasonably deny it any longer. They have fallen from a reputation for quality which was second to none in the 70's and 80's... to being a runner up to Samsung, today.
And then they go and do something good and constructive like this.
They really need to change their name to Sybil Corp.*
It would avoid a certain amount of confusion on the part of consumers. ;-)
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_%28film%29
Edit: Oops! Can't edit the typo in the title. How embarrassing. ;-)
Edited 2006-12-06 21:32
Member since:2006-05-07
Ah, you mistakenly think there is only 1 sony where there in fact are many. The music selling side (the rootgate afair) is not the same company as the one doing the PS3.
What many people do not know is that their devkits and all of their development is done on linux.
So can now all people stop with the flames and get on topic!
Member since:2005-07-24
"""So can now all people stop with the flames and get on topic!"""
My post wasn't a flame. :-) And Sony (or one of the Sonys?) is the topic.
I didn't realize that Sony(?) still had such ardent supporters.
Still, kudos to whatever Sony entity was behind this cool contribution.
Member since:
2006-02-06
Exactly, what ticks me off is the stupid FSF mentality that everything must be free. Would you rather they be like the X360 that keep you from running unencrypted code?
Sony has really given us something here. Maybe someday the'll give us the gfx driver, but until they do I'll just be happy to get my hands on a Cell.
Member since:
2006-03-08
Personaly the only reason that would make me buy a PS3 is the ability to transform it as a "General Desktop-internet-media center" on a HD TV.
AFAIK Linux is a just the best way to achieve this on Cell processor based machines.
I have no doubt that some very talented PS3 owners will bring new drivers, homebrew apps (Games?) on the table.
Even if Sony didn't bring a full Desktop environment, I'm glad that the Linux kernel supports the Cell architecture.
PS: 2 days remaining until Wii day... :p
Member since:
2006-02-05
Member since:
2005-11-13
Assuming that we never get the gfx driver, is framebuffering (whatever that is) fast enough so that when/if somebody does a port of MAME for the PS3, I'd be able to play Killer Instinct in HD on my 42-inch Toshiba HDTV with full speed and sound ?
I saw a video of somebody playing SMB via a NES emulator on the PS3, and it looked very jittery, so I'm not sure if it's just that the code was unoptimized, the video itself was jerky, or the combination of the cell processor plus framebuffering means sub-par speeds when emulating old consoles/arcade games.
Member since:2005-11-15
Member since:
2006-03-12
I search the web for snippets on cell support under the PS3. I read bloggs on people who have got it running under PPC. I'm desperate to know how it performs under the 256mb of memory; How practical it can be used as a PVR; Whether a console works as a Desktop replacement; How powerful it really can be. Is linux on the PS3 a novelty or my next PC.
If you talk about delayed launch; Mention any other consoles; ebay sales; rootkits; blue ray; hdtv; shootings launch titles etc etc for an article about "Sony Adds PS3 Support to Linux Kernel" everyone knows why you are doing this. There are places all over then net where you can post that garbage, with like minded people...but its not appropriate here.
Member since:
2005-07-06
Member since:
2005-07-06
I noticed at least one person wrote he is actually running Linux on his PS3, I assume there are/could be more: how about writing a little review of the PS3 as a general purpose / media-center computer? is it difficult to install Linux on the PS3? how about peripherals, etc. I think that would very interesting for OS News readers.
redhon
Member since:
2006-04-05
Member since:
2006-06-05
I have heard so many times in the press how Sony wants the PS3 to be more than a games machine - in fact supposedly its a fully fledged PC.
If so, why did they cripple it by putting in so little ram, and apparently no facility to expand it? With 1 Gb of ram being more or less the defacto standard on new PC's these days, and Windows Vista moving into the 2Gb recommended arena, its just a little hard to see how Sony thought 256Megs might be enough.
True in all other respects the machine is powerful enough, but a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
There is also the issue of adding a second hard disk, a digital TV tuner, etc. The only thing it has is a couple of USB ports. Not enough. It needed at least an external eSata port, and at least two USB-2 controllers.
I am looking for a new PC to run Linux, and gave (am giving) the PS-3 serious consideration, but these issues are show stoppers for anyone who plans to do more with the machine under Linux than web browsing and email.
