Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 7th Dec 2006 12:05 UTC, submitted by sogabe
BeOS & Derivatives The Haiku network stack currently under heavy development is reportedly working with the Vision IRC client. Haiku developer Axel Dörfler reports that the network stack can now successfully run the Vision IRC client (screenshot on the Haiku website). At this stage, the network still needs to be configured manually, but this can be easily done by editing a couple of files as explained here. Haiku can use BeOS network drivers, so if your NIC is not supported, you can try finding a driver on BeBits.com.
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Great news
by merkoth on Thu 7th Dec 2006 12:44 UTC
merkoth
Member since:
2006-09-22

I can't wait to have Haiku R1 in my hands, I really look forward for this project. Once the "R5 clone" stage is finished, we may see the future of a BeOS-like OS, made for the community by the community :-)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Great news
by whitehornmatt on Thu 7th Dec 2006 13:37 UTC in reply to "Great news"
whitehornmatt Member since:
2005-07-07

I think R1 will be here very soon considering how fast development is going at the moment. Axel does a brilliant job with Haiku

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Great news
by jeanmarc on Thu 7th Dec 2006 13:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Great news"
jeanmarc Member since:
2005-07-06

Don't expect a R1 too early. The Haiku guys are serious, R1 will mean stable release. Anyway, Haiku is moving fast forward gratefully with Axel and others devs
Thanks again to all who contribute!

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Great news
by steve_s on Thu 7th Dec 2006 15:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Great news"
steve_s Member since:
2006-01-16

Agreed - they're a while away from the R1 release right now.

However Haiku is looking to be close to having an alpha release. Definitely good news.

Now if only there were images I could download to run in Parallels on my Mac...

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Great news
by Big Al on Thu 7th Dec 2006 16:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Great news"
Big Al Member since:
2005-06-29

Take a look here for how to get Haiku running in Parallels:

http://forums.parallels.com/showthread.php?t=492&highlight=haiku

I haven't tried the new netstack in Parallels but hopefully it'll work. It's nice to see Axel is still locked in the basement. ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Great news
by Valhalla on Thu 7th Dec 2006 17:21 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Great news"
Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

Big Al wrote:
-"it's nice to see Axel is still locked in the basement. ;) "

lol yes, not to belittle the efforts of the other developers in any way, but the idea of having a couple of more Axel Dörfler's has made me reevaluate my stance on human cloning ;)

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: Great news
by ormandj on Thu 7th Dec 2006 19:42 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Great news"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

Unfortunately, even following those directions, attempting to boot the virtual machine causes Parallels to reboot my machine. No error logs, no crash logs, etc. No way to know what it did, but EVERY time, same result.

I see the BIOS memory/etc screen, get a black screen, then the computer reboots. Tried the latest stable version of Parallels and also the beta. Same result. Macbook Black w/ 2 gigs of RAM. Core Duo model. Parallels doesn't respond to my emails (really pissed at them about this...)

As to the Haiku guys, GREAT work. I've been waiting for this forever. When Haiku hits R1, I'm going to buy a laptop just for it. Here's to hoping that somebody will step up to the plate and create a replacement for Cubase/Logic that runs on Haiku, because I would forever ditch Apples at that point. I like Apples, but I don't like them *that* much, even having worked for Apple. I'd rather have more "choice" when I shop. ;)

Edited 2006-12-07 19:44

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Great news
by Big Al on Thu 7th Dec 2006 20:00 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Great news"
Big Al Member since:
2005-06-29

Definitely a problem with your copy of Parallels or your MacBook. I've got the same as you (except white ;) and it's always worked for me.

Best of luck. I imagine you're frsutrated beyond belief. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Great news
by ormandj on Thu 7th Dec 2006 20:04 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Great news"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

I've even reinstalled the OS multiple times. Other people have reported the problem before on OSNews too. Could you screen-shot your parallels configuration for Haiku, and send it to me please? (ormandj @ corenode.com). I'd be curious as to all the settings (type, os, memory, etc...) just to compare.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Great news
by Valhalla on Thu 7th Dec 2006 15:19 UTC in reply to "Great news"
Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

with all the nice progress reports of late I have to constantly remind myself that patience is indeed a virtue. and if we onlookers can almost 'taste it', imagine how the developers must feel after 5 years of hard work.

my sincere thanks to all the developers for not only (re)creating a magnificent piece of software, but also for letting the rest of us reap the benefits of all their hard labour.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Great news
by StephenBeDoper on Thu 7th Dec 2006 20:44 UTC in reply to "Great news"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Totally agreed. I remember being immensely impressed at the things that the people in the OpenTracker project were able to accomplish in a short time after Tracker's source was released (within about 6 months I believe, they had fixed up the majority of the quirks/gripes most people had). It should be quite interesting once Haiku gets past the "just making it work" phase.

There's also the nearly-obsessive attention to detail displayed by many BeOS developers. I remember a 2-3 day debate on the OT mailing lists about the relative usability merits of the terminology "partition" vs. "volume." Some may see that as a sign of OCD, but I see it as a sign of an OS that I won't constantly be cursing due to legions of small quirks.

Reply Score: 3

Amazing
by thjayo on Thu 7th Dec 2006 14:21 UTC
thjayo
Member since:
2005-11-11

The driver binary compatibility is just amazing.

Reply Score: 2

Great work
by konrad on Thu 7th Dec 2006 14:59 UTC
konrad
Member since:
2006-01-06

Great work Axel and others.
I also noticed a speedup when you guys changed the priorities of the Windows and Application threads during last week. Its running much more smoothly in WMWare.
Thank you guys!

Reply Score: 3

Fantastic
by aldeck on Thu 7th Dec 2006 15:20 UTC
aldeck
Member since:
2006-12-07

So i guess that the TCP protocol is almost complete!! Congrats, if i'm not mistaking, it's the biggest part of any network stack, isn't it? Are there any protocols left to implement?
Anyway, i think that networking will give a boost to the project since it'll be much easier to test apps without modifying the disk image or copying files to the haiku partition via a beos install.

Exciting ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Fantastic
by agentj on Fri 8th Dec 2006 08:10 UTC in reply to "Fantastic"
agentj Member since:
2005-08-19

"Basically" you need TCP, UDP (e.g. for DNS), ICMP, ARP (ethernet), PPP (for dialup modems) and IP to have the networking stuff work. You'll also need IPv6 support in future.

Edited 2006-12-08 08:12

Reply Score: 1

Looking forward
by twenex on Thu 7th Dec 2006 19:01 UTC
twenex
Member since:
2006-04-21

Looking forward to Haiku R1!!!

Reply Score: 1

Great Project
by tarpit on Thu 7th Dec 2006 19:34 UTC
tarpit
Member since:
2006-10-16

I really appreciate what these guys are getting done with this project. It seems like every few weeks there is some hurdle that they have overcome.
Keep up the good work. I look forward to running haiku in the near future.
Haiku would be great for a basic business desktop, if and when openoffice gets ported. It would be a great way to get some more use out of old equipment.

Reply Score: 1

Haiku OS
by WereCatf on Thu 7th Dec 2006 19:44 UTC
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

I remember years ago having very very briefly tried out BeOS trial version or something like that..It seemed snappy, but well, who'd use a trial one? I think I had some problems with it, too. Now I've been looking at Haiku quite recently, being pretty curious, but haven't tried it out yet. Now with somewhat working networking stack I probably will try it, just to see how it is like. From what I know, it seems like a great alternative OS. I just wish it wasn't so ugly =)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Haiku OS
by ormandj on Thu 7th Dec 2006 20:02 UTC in reply to "Haiku OS"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I ran BeOS for quite some time, through multiple releases, until the end. For me, it was the most beautiful OS I've ever used. Simple, clearly laid out, elegant design, and ran lightning quick. It's an old OS now, and even so it still stacks up pretty well against "modern" OSs! That's impressive. The design behind the scenes is equally impressive, the APIs are a thing of beauty, and make development a joy compared to other OSs.

To sum it up, it IS a great alternative OS, and I suspect if you give it a "fair" shot once it's production ready/stable, you'll be very impressed, and see the beauty you might miss in the screenshots. ;)

Reply Score: 5

spanglywires
Member since:
2006-10-23

I remember talking with David Reid almost 4 years ago and he had an almost working netserver/BONE replacement - not sure why it took until now to finish...

Sad thing is, many of the good developers other than Axel left due to issues with the way things were run. If we (the then BeOS community) had managed some kind of encouragement to keep the others around then I think we'd have seen Haiku r2 by now.

Not belittling Axel's abilities - he's a prolific coder - but theres only so much one person can do on their own or for their own sanity. Perhaps BGA really does keep him in the basement!

I miss BeOS, I miss the community, but its all but gone now. Haiku is already years too late.

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

I remember talking with David Reid almost 4 years ago and he had an almost working netserver/BONE replacement - not sure why it took until now to finish...

So there's no confusion - the networking stack DID work in a usable way 6 months ago - and even that was already a second attempt at a netstack.

I believe the current rendition is pretty much the 3rd serious netstack attempt for Haiku... and basically a full rewrite from scratch from the ground up (basically no ported code) - where the previous netstack was a "messy" port from some flavor of BSD (I had heard NetBSD mostly - but I wouldn't know for sure).

There are screenshots of Haiku running Net+ (BeOS browser), Firefox, Vision (IRC client), etc. from 6 months ago:

http://flickr.com/photos/umccullough/tags/haikuos/

So, a 6-month rewrite of the netstack from scratch isn't bad eh?

Reply Score: 5

Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

spanglywires wrote:
-"Sad thing is, many of the good developers other than Axel left due to issues with the way things were run."

don't know about any of that. however, it's not like Axel is the only 'good' developer in the Haiku project, him being extraordinary doesn't make the others bad.


spanglywires wrote:
-"Haiku is already years too late."

too late for whom? you?

if Haiku ends up only being used by the Haiku development team it would still be time well spent for them, it's not like they were in it for the money. and I also doubt that being an OS developer gets you the hot chicks (could be wrong here though).

if their efforts manages to breathe much needed life into the Beos user base and development scene, then so much the better. either way, they can count me in.

here is my extremely optimistic view of Haiku's future ;D

while(Windows != FOSS && Linux != DESKTOP_OS)
{
fHaikuUserBase++;
}

Reply Score: 5

mphipps Member since:
2006-08-21

David's netstack was not at all thread safe and had some major issues. The devs (Axel, Oliver, Philippe, Waldemar) looked at it and decided that it would be easier to start from scratch.

As for people leaving because of the way things are run, that is just not true. David would be the only instance that I can place. Many people had real life issues, many were hired away to work on Zeta (and I don't blame them!), but if there are numbers of people who had/have an issue with the way things are run, they haven't told me about it.

If you watch our checkins, we have a lot of people checking in. Jerome, Axel, Ingo, Stippi, Oliver within the last week (from memory, so if I forgot someone, please forgive). Marcus, Philippe, DarkWyrm, Ithamar are still around and pitch in when they have time.

Reply Score: 5

ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

While attempting to be non-inflammatory as much as possible, I had the opportunity to speak with David online a few times, and while a very smart (and I'm told nice) guy, he was very.. how to say.. volatile. I'm sure there were outside circumstances involved, but his departure waaay back when didn't really surprise me.

Other than him, I am not aware of any other devs who dug out over "issues" with how things were run. Mr. Phipps is right on target with his recollection of where people went/what happened.

When Haiku gets to the point people can actually start "using" it (R1) - I suspect more developers will sign on. Right now they probably stick with OSs they can run on their home PCs natively, and not only do OS development but browse the net, handle email/calendaring/etc. When it gets to that stage, it'll be a lot easier to convince people to give it a go.

One thing I'd like to see is with the release of Java under some open-source licensing, some integration. It'd be really nice as a developer to be able to write software than ran on Haiku as well as Linux/BSD/OSX/Windows. Java has a lot of negative press in speed, but I imagine a *good* Haiku port of J2SE 6 would be pretty impressive, with the underlying multi-threadedness of Haiku. That alone might be enough to get some people to switch over. ;)

Reply Score: 5

memson Member since:
2006-01-01

> I had the opportunity to speak with David online a few
> times, and while a very smart (and I'm told nice) guy,
> he was very.. how to say.. volatile.

I met David in real life a few years ago. He bought a Mac 7300 (with keyboard, mouse and monitor - runing R5) and a copy of GoBe Productive (boxed) from me. I only spent about an hour at most in his company, but he seemed like a nice chap. However, I totally agree with the above statement. Online, he has been somewhat volatile in the past!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Haiku OS
by Tuishimi on Fri 8th Dec 2006 03:50 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

" I suspect if you give it a "fair" shot once it's production ready/stable, you'll be very impressed"

I'd bump this post up to a 6 if I could. BeOS was my OS of choice for years. Ran my websites on it, mail server, all sorts of cool things. Fantastic operating system whose simple and clean interface is refreshing and becomes more and more attractive as you use it. ;)

Ohhhhh MAN oh man I can't wait for R1. Time for another $ donation to Haiku. I am sure having Axel locked in his basement (as someone noted above) does not help him pay his bills. ;)

I just hope it will run on standard hardware out there... I will buy a special PC just for Haiku when it is ready, even if I have to sell a couple of my macs to do it!

Reply Score: 3

When R1 is released
by blitze on Fri 8th Dec 2006 06:48 UTC
blitze
Member since:
2006-09-15

I will be contacting Justin at www.reaper.fm to see if we can get a port of his Cubase/Logic killer.

This would be a match made in coding heaven as Reaper is a Audio Host to behold and the development and coding by Justin and his team is nothing short of beautiful. I really believe Haiku and Reaper would be a wonderful match for an Audio Workstation and the only other thing I could possibly want is an easy way to get my Windows VSTi's working through Haiku.

Seemlessly and effortlessly and I would not look back. You want the killer audio app for Haiku, look no further. ;)

Reply Score: 1