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"I wish Google still did OS share on the zeitgeist."

Sure, so you can troll with proofs.

Since when has that ever stopped Mr. Ballmer here?

Edited 2006-12-09 23:36

Ok guys he(Notparker) made a perfectly reasonable remark.
Lighten up and allow the man to be reasonable.
As far as Ubuntu and Kubuntu?
I think that they have done one bang up job of putting together a solid distro with a good set of default programs. And did it all on one CD.
I keep a CD of each burned and ready to give away to friends (along with MY personal favorite - a Slackware 11.0 DVD).
A wouldn't hesitate recommending either one. They are both excellent.

He has to, his average post rating is nearing 0.

I wish Google still did OS share on the zeitgeist.

They no longer do, because it's not an accurate measure of market share. However, this is off-topic, as this article is about mind share, not market share.

Also, it's not about Linux vs. Microsoft, but about Ubuntu's popularity vs. other Linux distros. Please don't turn this into a Linux vs. Windows flame war. If you have something constructive to say about the topic, then please be my guest. If you don't, then please refrain from trolling this thread. Thank you.

Both. I started using Ubuntu after using Debian for years. Then I switched to Kubuntu. If I stayed with it is because it works fine for me, not because it is popular. But popularity helps a lot: there's more developers available to work on it, more users to report bugs, etc.

Edited 2006-12-09 23:36

Kubuntu is not much more popular than Mandriva actually (which is already a lot, of course): http://www.google.com/trends?q=mandriva%2C+fedora%2C+kubunt...
It's the main Ubuntu version that seems to be extremely popular.

If you combine all the distro's currently using ubuntu-standard and ubuntu-minimal (which makes the distro an ubuntu deriv) there is a LOT of testing for the actual system, which benefits ALL the derivs... Kubuntu, MEPIS, gNewSense, Edubuntu, Xubuntu, etc etc...

KDE, XFce etc etc might not get the same kind of attention, but the work of those people is very specific, so its easier for them to keep track of things thanks to the popularity of the overall system...

If Ubuntu used KDE as default, and if there were a gUbuntu version with Gnome, I'm sure the main version using KDE (Kubuntu) would be more popular.

If Ubuntu used KDE as default, and if there were a gUbuntu version with Gnome, I'm sure the main version using KDE (Kubuntu) would be more popular.

I really doubt it. I think Gnome offers new Linux users the simplicity necessary to make the initial transition to Linux. While KDE has very nice features, it isn't as user friendly.

There are plenty of KDE distributions out there (i.e. Mepis, Linspire, Xandros, etc., etc., etc.) that are based on Debian, but none of them has enjoyed the success of the Gnome based Ubuntu.

Well, I think that quite a few people start with ubuntu and then install and use the KDE desktop. Are they using ubuntu or kubuntu?

Kubuntu is more a subset of Ubuntu than a full-fledged variant. As a Kubuntu user, I still feel like I'm part of the Ubuntu user community.

I think a significant portion of the Ubuntu traffic may really be from Kubuntu users. Case in point: when I search the web for HowTos and such, I use Ubuntu as a keyword rather than Kubuntu, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to do that.

n other ways - a resounding NO! Oh come ON!! Grow up. This isn't like a high school popularity contest. Uboingo is popular because for many it erases many of the issues that have kept people form using desktop Linux for so long. I am sick of people arguing that if they want to use linux they should take 4 or 5 IT courses, learn bash scripting, become masters of Vi or Vim, understand partitioning tables, refresh rates and video frequencies just to install a Distro.If its ease of use and installation bother you because it doesn't make you feel 37334 enough use something else. Popularity is bad. Rubbish!!

I am sick of people arguing that if they want to use linux they should take 4 or 5 IT courses, learn bash scripting, become masters of Vi or Vim, understand partitioning tables, refresh rates and video frequencies just to install a Distro.If its ease of use and installation bother you because it doesn't make you feel 37334 enough use something else.

The only people I ever hear saying "if people want to learn linux they should" do everything you said are people who claim linux users say that.

Exactly! +1

I have used Debian for a long time and have never done any of that, never been told I had to do any of that, and never told anyone else that had to do any of that....

Where are people getting this stuff from?

Where are people getting this stuff from?

The Dead "We have to paint Linux and its users in as bad a light as possible to delay Judgement Day and stop the brain drain away from Windows" Letter Office ;-)

Edited 2006-12-10 20:45

n other ways - a resounding NO! Oh come ON!! Grow up. This isn't like a high school popularity contest. Uboingo is popular because for many it erases many of the issues that have kept people form using desktop Linux for so long. I am sick of people arguing that if they want to use linux they should take 4 or 5 IT courses, learn bash scripting, become masters of Vi or Vim, understand partitioning tables, refresh rates and video frequencies just to install a Distro.If its ease of use and installation bother you because it doesn't make you feel 37334 enough use something else. Popularity is bad. Rubbish!!

perfect example of my point - thanks

>I wonder if you shouldn't also add Kubuntu results to Ubuntu in the final count.

It's not possible to add in the google page, they only allow up to 5 participants. But I did include it in my comment above.

>It's not possible to add in the google page

Sure it is. You use a |. For example.

ubuntu|kubuntu, ubuntu, kubuntu
http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%7Ckubuntu%2C+ubuntu~*...

http://www.google.com/trends?q=mandriva%2C+fedora%2C+ubuntu...

However, if it weren't for the quality, I don't think you would have the mindshare.

In my opinion, Ubuntu brought Debian to the masses via a quality product that was easy to install and use.

This ease, combined with the quality of Debian and coupled with the fact that it is free (unlike Mepis, Linspire, Libranet, and Xandros at the time Ubuntu first came out), is what made this particular distribution rocket to the top.

Personally, there are a lot of things I like about Debian. Most of all, I like apt. Debian's packaging system is superior to RPM in every way (if that weren't true, the RPM systems wouldn't be going to such great lengths to mimic apt), but Debian's installer was too big of a hurdle for the average user.

Ubuntu changed that.

"Debian's installer was too big of a hurdle for the average user. Ubuntu changed that."

Actually, Ubuntu took the the new installer that Debian had developed and used it to gain a competitive edge over Debian. But now there's not that much difference between Debian and Ubuntu, and the latest version of the Debian installer looks pretty cool:

http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.p...

No, they didn't.

What made/makes Ubuntu so successful is that they have made Linux useable to the "Apathetical Users", you know the ones who cannot be bothered to download and burn there own version.

Now they dont have to both, someone else will post them out for free.

That means they can use their time more productively by drinking another jumbo size diet-coke

Before I waddle over to the fridge, to get my Jumbo diet Coke and watch the Jerry Springer Show on TV. Ahh sorry I forgot I don't have a TV, I couldn't get the Jerry Springer Show without a satellite dish and there isn't a Mac Donald's in the country. Of course your right probably the main reason I use Ubuntu not Open Suse, or Fedora core are the free CDs which I can get sent to me. (I usually go for 10 and the give most away)

I'm sure it's great where you are with cheep, probably Cap free band band, but here in the third world things are different. The dial up rate is 0.22 cents a minute and on that makes downloading an ISO very time consuming, expensive and inconvenient. OK I've got broad band (read twice as fast as a modem and costing 430 US$ a month) shared between another 25 PC users. I think there'll be unhappy, if I use all the bandwidth downloading a Linux distro to play with (all though when Haiku comes out they'll have to deal with it). Yeah Ubuntu has partly got where it is by giving disks away and I wish other distro's would do the same.

Having said that, Ubuntu wouldn't have stayed on my computer if it wasn't Good. I find the community helpful and most things work without too much difficulty. Now I think I'll waddle over to the fridge and have that Coke – No I'll make it a beer as it hot and Summer here.

sending out free cds = money

the fact you know the cds can be sent to you = marketing

make no mistake, not every distro could afford to do this.

Nobody starts a flamewar, it's simply an evaluation of the market. It's always good to know.

BTW, both Gentoo and KUbuntu is close to Mandriva, but many people still think that Mandriva is called Mandrake, so when you sum up both Mandriva+Mandrake, it's still a bit bigger than Gentoo or Kubuntu. But these three are all pretty close.

NotParker, please check your email before replying again. I have emailed you in the email address you provided to our system.

I sent you one via hotmail a few minutes ago, on your b....@s.....com address.

Ummmm, it says over 2006 as a whole! Not over the last 7 days because the newest version of Open Suse just came out. LOL!

And no one is even talking about Windows here. We all know Winblows is number 1. Dang. LOL!

Ummmm, it says over 2006 as a whole! Not over the last 7 days because the newest version of Open Suse just came out. LOL!

That's why I wrote that "OpenSUSE has been catching up with Ubuntu for some time now." If you change the data span you get the following results:

Last 12 months -- Ubuntu 2646, OpenSUSE 1972
Last 6 months -- Ubuntu 2469, OpenSUSE 2007
Last 3 months -- Ubuntu 2550, OpenSUSE 2360
Last 30 days -- Ubuntu 2293, OpenSUSE 2292
Last 7 days -- Ubuntu 2467, OpenSUSE 3375

Do you notice any trend here? ;-)

And no one is even talking about Windows here. We all know Winblows is number 1. Dang. LOL!

Still, it's kind of surprising that only 33.1% of DistroWatch visitors use Linux while 57.6% of them use Windows. Clearly these are people who are interested in Linux but a large majority of them still prefer to use Windows for some reason.

Is it the same with Google Trends and the Page Hits Counter? They obviously show what people are interested in but does this interest correlate with actual usage? It's these kind of problems that I was trying to point out.

That's why I wrote that "OpenSUSE has been catching up with Ubuntu for some time now." If you change the data span you get the following results:

Last 12 months -- Ubuntu 2646, OpenSUSE 1972
Last 6 months -- Ubuntu 2469, OpenSUSE 2007
Last 3 months -- Ubuntu 2550, OpenSUSE 2360
Last 30 days -- Ubuntu 2293, OpenSUSE 2292
Last 7 days -- Ubuntu 2467, OpenSUSE 3375

Do you notice any trend here?

As the previous poster said, of course it looks like a trend - 10.2 was just released a few days ago and is thus on the front page of distrowatch. This causes it to get hundreds more hits per day at present than it typically does (exactly the same thing happens when there is a new release of any distro). These extra hits are incorporated into all the different time spans that distrowatch records, but obviously they will have the biggest effect on the the shorter time spans.

Additionally, over the last few weeks development releases have been appearing on the front page, which also sends the hit count up on the shorter time spans.

Thus, if anything, it's surprising that SUSE's figures are actually lower over the last month than the last 3 months. This is presumably fallout from the Novell-MS deal.

So, I agree with the title of your original post.

10.2 was just released a few days ago and is thus on the front page of distrowatch. This causes it to get hundreds more hits per day at present than it typically does (exactly the same thing happens when there is a new release of any distro). These extra hits are incorporated into all the different time spans that distrowatch records, but obviously they will have the biggest effect on the the shorter time spans.

Are you suggesting that only OpenSUSE gets advantage from its frequent releases but Ubuntu doesn't get any advantage from its frequent releases at all? That's clearly an invalid argument.

Ubuntu 6.10 was released in 2006/10/26 and the latest development release came out in 2006/12/06. And there were lots of development releases, betas and release candidates for Ubuntu 6.10. All those releases must have lifted Ubuntu's page hits score on short time spans.

Still, the gap between Ubuntu and OpenSUSE has become smaller and smaller in the course of 2006. This long term trend is quite obvious and that's why it's no surprise that OpenSUSE is currently much more popular than Ubuntu.

However, I agree with you that OpenSUSE would be even more popular than it currently is if there wasn't that unfortunate Novell-Microsoft deal. But also Ubuntu screwed things up when they had big problems with the Dapper to Edgy upgrades. And then Ubuntu alienated some long-term users by saying that they're going to install binary graphics drivers automatically, without asking users first. And then Shuttleworth went poaching for OpenSUSE developers -- that definitely showed poor taste and alienated some more users from Ubuntu.

Still, it's kind of surprising that only 33.1% of DistroWatch visitors use Linux while 57.6% of them use Windows. Clearly these are people who are interested in Linux but a large majority of them still prefer to use Windows for some reason.

Or maybe that 57.6% are Windows users looking to try out/switch to Linux and go to distrowatch for info, and the 33.1% are Linux users who care abot the ranking and/or are looking for a new distro? Presumably most Linux users (like all users of products they're satisfied with) don't actually care what other products are out there unless they need to change, e.g. because of unhappiness with the MS/Novell/SuSE thing.

Makes sense to me, I did far more Distrowatch browsing as a Windows user than a Linux user.

"Still, it's kind of surprising that only 33.1% of DistroWatch visitors use Linux while 57.6% of them use Windows."

In my case, I rarely go to DistroWatch, but when I do, it's during my lunch break at work, in which case, I'm running XP. At home, however, I run Ubuntu 100% of the time.

While it may be true that there are a lot of people that surf distrowatch from a windows machine, that doesn't always mean that those people don't use linux. I suppose that many of those people surf from their day-time jobs, and that many of those have little influence on the IT budget of their organization.

Other people may look at distrowatch for a serverside solution in a mixed environment.

The prevalence of Windows Server 2K3 suggests that there are quite a few system administrators browsing distrowatch, no more, no less.

That is interesting
Gentoo gaining some popularity again.

I have to agree, i think gentoo has come out of the kiddie "look at me i compiled everything" stage to a stage where it is more like slackware (as far as the users). We just use our system because it works for us and ignore most of the political stuff (except what we view as very important).

I also must add that ubuntu has come a long way. To be honest, i used to hate it, now i only have a mild distaste for it, I have kubuntu installed on a partition and i try to use it periodically so i can get used to it and maybe one day like it (yes i will force myself to use an os that i don't like to see if it grows on me.)

"I also must add that ubuntu has come a long way. To be honest, i used to hate it, now i only have a mild distaste for it, I have kubuntu installed on a partition and i try to use it periodically so i can get used to it and maybe one day like it (yes i will force myself to use an os that i don't like to see if it grows on me.)"

I agree. The first Linux distro's I ever used were Corel Linux(Debian based), and Yellow Dog(Red Hat based at the time, and now using the more community driven Fedora Core) in 2000. Then later I tried Red Hat and some more of its derivatives (Mandrake/Mandrive, Fedora Core, Ark, CentOS, etc.) and realized that I couldn't stand them. The always seemed slow and buggy. But to be fair, I always install and try out new versions when they get released just in case I find one that grows on me. But no matter how good any of the Red Hat based distro's ever get, I always seem to find my way back to Debian and it's derivatives.
I guess I look at it like this: If you don't at least try new distros when they come out, even if its based on a system you don't like, then you will end up like a lot of other people out there that are way out of touch with reality and will be spewing things like "Yeah, well I don't like Linux because it doesn't have any hardware support", even though the rest of us know just how wrong they are.

Edited 2006-12-11 15:45

"I really need to find out why Ubuntu is so successful.I have seen it fail on 3 out of the 3 installs I have witnessed."

In your question lies the answer.
You couldn't say it is 100% useless out of your 3/3 install witnessed. Perhaps those installs were affected by some bad luck?

Well hopefully that's all it was.

You couldn't say it is 100% useless out of your 3/3 install witnessed.

I didn't say it was "useless" either. What I said was, I wonder why it's so popular.

After all, say 10 people all try Ubuntu and Slackware. If 90% of them get 70% through the Slackware installation process, but 70% of them find Ubuntu can't find their disks, that's a higher success rate for the supposedly "hackerish" Slack than for the supposedly "user-friendly" Ubuntu.

I have found that 70% of the people that try to install Windows 98 can't do it if they start with a new hard drive. Xp is better, if it is the only system on the drive.

Most of the people I know who try to install any OS for the first time don't have the skills to do so.
Most of the computer users that I am around (an office of about 50 users) don't know what a primary partition is much less an extended one.

I usually have to walk everyone through an install, be it Windows, Slackware, Freebsd, or Ubuntu.

And please don't refer to Slackware as "hackerish".
My install is a fine-tuned well-oiled masterpiece of Individuality.

And please don't refer to Slackware as "hackerish".
My install is a fine-tuned well-oiled masterpiece of Individuality.

Heh. I was of course using "hacker" in the proper sense, but fair enough :-)

Why would you look for "xxx is junk"?

I agree that Ubuntu is the King of Distros right now in the terms Eugenia outlines - I'm just wondering out loud how solid the foundations are (of any distro).

Yes you could argue about the interpretation.Though Ubuntu causes a lot of hits.

it might be that Ubuntu is a very popular starter distro for new users and those just testing out Linux, but a lot of those users soon either go back to Windows,

Perhaps some will eventually return to windows for whatever reason.But you could say Ubuntu has caused them to go out and try an alternativ OS.Cann't be out of sheer curiosity alone.