Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 10th Jan 2007 16:42 UTC
BeOS & Derivatives BePDF, the .pdf viewer for BeOS (no, really?), can now be run on Haiku. "BePDF is working in Haiku, as you can see in the screenshot. You need to copy a few libs. Just a question: why is BePDF not included in the Haiku basic software, but a PDF printer is?"
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Wow!
by DoctorPepper on Wed 10th Jan 2007 18:31 UTC
DoctorPepper
Member since:
2005-07-12

Looking at the screenshot, that has to be the fastest Pentium II ever made!

Reply Score: 3

RE: Wow!
by vege on Wed 10th Jan 2007 18:46 UTC in reply to "Wow!"
vege Member since:
2006-04-07

That's the magic of QEMU ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Wow!
by Earl Colby pottinger on Wed 10th Jan 2007 20:47 UTC in reply to "Wow!"
Earl Colby pottinger Member since:
2005-07-06

My best friend just bought a Quad-Core machine. I am waiting to see how Haiku (a multi-threaded OS) performs on his little beauty. At present it only use one of the four CPUs when booting Haiku or the Zeta 1.2 demo, once the code is modified to support a Quad-Core I am going to bug him to turn on Hyper-Threading. Only problem, aside from FireFox everything written for BeOS and Haiku is already fast enough on a single core.

Edited 2007-01-10 20:49

Reply Score: 1

Haiku progress.
by konrad on Wed 10th Jan 2007 19:18 UTC
konrad
Member since:
2006-01-06

I thought it described how Haiku feels compared to Windows on a Pentium II? =).

I hope they add some of the essential apps like BePDF in the base installation. Even if its a third party application.

Nice to see that they are making progress. I run it from time to time at work in VMWare or in Fusion at home. Its quite snappy worth looking it. But I think they really need to shape up the GUI, it lookes so much like 1999.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Haiku progress.
by agentj on Wed 10th Jan 2007 19:28 UTC in reply to "Haiku progress."
agentj Member since:
2005-08-19

> ... it lookes so much like 1999.

IMHO GUI should be clean and fast. BeOS/Haiku GUI is extremely fast and responsive to the user events.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Haiku progress.
by El-Al on Wed 10th Jan 2007 19:55 UTC in reply to "Haiku progress."
El-Al Member since:
2006-04-17

"But I think they really need to shape up the GUI, it lookes so much like 1999."

As far as I'm aware, GUI stuff will start to happen after R1 is released. With such a small team of devs, we really can't expect stuff like eye candy to be on the priority list right now.

Just messing with a few BeOS apps in Haiku right now on my Haiku/BeOS box, I must say thing look a little better all the time.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Haiku progress.
by Luposian on Thu 11th Jan 2007 08:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Haiku progress."
Luposian Member since:
2005-07-27

"With such a small team of devs, we really can't expect stuff like eye candy to be on the priority list right now."

Obviously not. Because, "With such a small team of devs...", proper file copying isn't on their priority list, either.

File copying is a very basic, necessary OS function... maybe the most basic and necessary of them all. And Haiku, even after all these years of development, *still* doesn't do it correctly. Eats up all yer RAM and punts you straight into KDL when it's all used up!

Atari's GEM/TOS (which fits in a tiny 192Kbytes of ROM on the Atari ST) can copy files correctly... why in blazes can't Haiku? There... is... no... excuse!

Sure, I'm very happy that a lot of BeOS apps now run in Haiku. I'm happy that software development and other progress are being made in Haiku on a daily basis.

... BUT! ...

If I could properly copy files, I would be using Haiku *TODAY*. Not just WAITING for it to be useful to me "someday".

I would be telling people of my experiences in Haiku, with pride, not just telling people how neat Haiku WILL be someday.

Who cares if it's pre-alpha. I sure don't. I'll live with whatever limitations Haiku has, for as long as they persist, just so long as I can copy files.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Haiku progress.
by testadura on Thu 11th Jan 2007 09:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Haiku progress."
testadura Member since:
2006-04-14

ah....the file copying-issue by Luposian.... again!

HAIKU is NOT finished yet.
But feel free to fix it.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Haiku progress.
by Luposian on Fri 12th Jan 2007 04:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Haiku progress."
Luposian Member since:
2005-07-27

Oh, I'm, sorry, I didn't know that file copying was necessary for an OS to be FINISHED. I thought it was simply a very basic, necessary function of the OS, regardless at what stage it is in development. And the sooner, the better/

But apparently you seem to think that my request will only be met when Haiku is FINISHED!

Feel free to fix it? If I knew how to program, it WOULD be fixed by now. But I don't, so all I get the pleasure of doing is harping on this one issue that prevents me from USING Haiku on a daily basis, even at the pre-alpha stage it's at.

And, trust me, I plan to keep bringing this topic up every now and then until it IS addressed... no matter how many people it pisses off! I'm not here to be "liked". I'm here to see a basic OS function implemented, in my favorite open source OS, based on my favorite non-Windows, non-MacOS X operating system.

What do you wanna bet Minix 3, even in it's current stage of development, can copy files correctly? What about TriangleOS? Or FreeDOS? Or SkyOS? These are ALL *unfinished* OS's (and SkyOS is a one-man programming effort, from all I've read and seen recently) and yet... they can somehow COPY FILES!

Why is this ONE single function curiously absent in Haiku, which, by this time, is growing more usable by the day? What makes this one function so horribly unimportant (or difficult to implement) that it's implementation is virtually uncared about?

Would someone be willing to fix this issue for $250? $500? $750? $1,000? On the spot, upon payment? Or is every aspect of Haiku such a "labor of love", that no one will work on anything but that which THEY want to work on, regardless if it could mean the difference between USING Haiku on a daily basis and WISHING it could be used on a daily basis?

The end result will be an OS that others will use, whether or not they fix this particular issue today or 100 years from now. But... doesn't it behoove EVERYONE to get the most basic elements of the underlying OS functions squared away before the other stuff is piled on, ad infinitum?

I sure think so. Shame, no one else seems to.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Haiku progress.
by testadura on Fri 12th Jan 2007 09:19 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Haiku progress."
testadura Member since:
2006-04-14

Ik agree with you on the fact that file copying is a very important functionality of an OS. Even if the OS is in pre-alpha stage!

I was just trying to say this is not the place for reporting bugs. When I read your post about the issue, it seems like you feel the Haiku devs aren't focussing on the right stuff and Haiku is just shit right now... Is this the message you want to give to the curious people who aren't familiar with Beos/Haiku?

Use the mailing lists for constructive comments. Or just learn to program ;-)

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Haiku progress.
by MYOB on Fri 12th Jan 2007 10:15 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Haiku progress."
MYOB Member since:
2005-06-29

Have you considered you may possibly be obsessed with this? Its not healthy.

It'll be fixed when Haiku has an alpha release. Its not even at that stage yet. Get over it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Haiku progress.
by Luposian on Fri 12th Jan 2007 14:45 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Haiku progress."
Luposian Member since:
2005-07-27

And yet, we see PXE this and video drivers that, and BePDF here, and documentation there...

Other stuff is being added and updated quite frequently, and yet a basic OS function continues to be ignored.

Assuming you're "in the know", I will trust you are telling the truth when you say "It will be fixed when Haiku has an Alpha release." Now, any idea when THAT will be? A month from now? Three months? Six?

Anyone wanna strike up the Jeopardy theme while we wait? :-)

Reply Score: 0

RE[7]: Haiku progress.
by umccullough on Fri 12th Jan 2007 16:09 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Haiku progress."
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Luposian, for everyone's sake, please don't use anything less than beta software - your attitude and opinions are exactly what software developers are hoping to avoid when they name software alpha (or even pre-alpha in Haiku's case).

Also, since you feel the need to demand schedules and dates, you might want to consider some other great OSes that are much further along, and have well-defined release schedules such as ReactOS, SkyOS, etc.

Please come back when Haiku is released and do your complaining then. Thanks.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Haiku progress.
by jonas.kirilla on Fri 12th Jan 2007 17:55 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Haiku progress."
jonas.kirilla Member since:
2005-07-11

File copying might seem like a trivial thing, but it's tied to caching of disk data in memory, and management of virtual memory (paging), which is not trivial. This has to be done right. It's not a simple bug, but a larger mechanism that is missing, (unless I'm completely mistaken). If it was simply an error in Tracker (a mere application) it might be easier to fix, but it's an issue with core parts of the kernel which needs a sophisticated solution by someone skilled to do it.

I bet few people have the Haiku kernel insight and the skills to fix this issue, but IIRC Axel Dörfler has done some work in this area recently. I'm sure the core developers are well aware of this issue. Grow some faith! There can't be a release without it getting fixed, so it will happen. I'm hoping sooner rather than later, of course.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Haiku progress.
by TQH ! on Fri 12th Jan 2007 12:32 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Haiku progress."
TQH ! Member since:
2006-03-16

And this my friends is the reason why Haiku doesn't ship any official releases until it is done.

You get a lot a flac as a dev, from people that apparently know a lot better than you what you are trying to do...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Haiku progress.
by Tuishimi on Wed 10th Jan 2007 19:36 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

The new UI looks great to me. Smoothed and updated JUST ENOUGH to keep it fresh. Man I can't wait for this thing to go BETA... it's like torture waiting for it. I feel like Cartman waiting for the Wii...

Reply Score: 4

Improve the GUI.
by konrad on Wed 10th Jan 2007 19:41 UTC
konrad
Member since:
2006-01-06

>>IMHO GUI should be clean and fast. BeOS/Haiku GUI is extremely fast and responsive to the user events.

I agree that it should be fast. And you dont need all the extra animation that OS X and Vista got. But somehow it feels old. I dont say its clean, it is, its also well designed, but there is plenty room of improvement in somewhat outdated look.

The first things I personally would change is:
BMenu, BButton. Add free shaped windows and Semi transperency. Thats pretty much what I miss, not much.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Improve the GUI.
by Tuishimi on Wed 10th Jan 2007 19:43 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

Ick.

Reply Score: 2

Nice!
by madcrow on Wed 10th Jan 2007 20:01 UTC
madcrow
Member since:
2006-03-13

The one problem I see is that it says you need to copy a few libs still. That means that you still need parts of old, proprietary BeOS to run this program, which is probably the reason that this isn't included by default yet.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Nice!
by Earl Colby pottinger on Wed 10th Jan 2007 20:57 UTC in reply to "Nice!"
Earl Colby pottinger Member since:
2005-07-06

There already is a message asking which libraries.

Hopefully, they are ones like Layout.so which have the code open source and already are used by other programs that may be added to the Haiku default archive.

Reply Score: 2

About the BeOS gui
by Nutela on Wed 10th Jan 2007 21:15 UTC
Nutela
Member since:
2006-02-09

We use linux at work. I recently found out that KDE has a window decoration that works with tabs like BeOS and can automatically play tabs so that even if windows are covered their tabs are not.

And eventough KDE offers more features (out of the box) it still looks uglier, a lot :-) and it's a bit buggy too!

The OS is CentOS 4 btw.

Reply Score: 2

Nice to see alternatives
by sukru on Wed 10th Jan 2007 22:00 UTC
sukru
Member since:
2006-11-19

Having a stable operating system with a targeted scope (clean and user friendly multimedia capabilities) is really nice to have.

They seem to work really hard. Hope external things like driver support or licensing does not hinder their development. So that I can make some old machines usable again.

Reply Score: 3

May it be...
by aliquis on Wed 10th Jan 2007 22:50 UTC
aliquis
Member since:
2005-07-23

... because you have to copy some libs?

Reply Score: 1

With no priorities we can wait forever
by Haicube on Thu 11th Jan 2007 05:45 UTC
Haicube
Member since:
2005-08-06

Let's face it guys, it's impossible to make everything happen at once. Let's for once assume the GUI is "boring" or "99ish", what's good about it, is that everyone agrees on it, making it a lot simpler to reach the R1 goal. Why? because there's no hazzle or long debates about what it should look like.

The way I see it, the Haiku devs should continue doing whatever they're doing, since from where I'm standing, it's a miracle. Still, there are a lot of things underneath that has to be worked out to make this baby stable and functional that GUI issues are hardly even close to high priority right now. Netstack comes especially into mind. Or howabout the fact that SATA drives don't play with Haiku (AFAIK).

Reply Score: 3

phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

> Or how about the fact that SATA drives don't play
> with Haiku (AFAIK).

Only Silicom Image driven ones are supported ATM. We don't have yet support for Intel SATA controllers, or any other AHCI compliant controllers. Marcus is working hard on it.

Edited 2007-01-11 10:14

Reply Score: 3