Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 19:06 UTC, submitted by Deathspawner
Windows "With the Vista launch imminent, you may be wondering what version you should be buying. Thanks to the four primary versions available, this is no easy task. Many will be swaying towards the Ultimate Edition, but should you save your cash?"
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Well..
by CPUGuy on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 19:21 UTC
CPUGuy
Member since:
2005-07-06

It's simple, if you don't have a need to have both Media Center and TabletPC, and the Ultimate Extras aren't of intrest to you, then definately do not get Ultimate.

Hell, even if you don't buy Ultimate and later decide you want/need it then you can get an "express upgrade", basically paying the difference between what you got and Ultimate (or whatever version you end up buying), and you get a new product key to unlock those features.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Well.. ("express upgrade")
by Barnabyh on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:54 UTC in reply to "Well.. "
Barnabyh Member since:
2006-02-06

Unlocking features sounds a lot like they are installed already even if one is only getting the Basic edition. Does that mean Vista will always use about 2.5GB regardless what version because the rest is dormant waiting to be 'unlocked'?
In the age of 500gig hard drives that might not matter much to some people but me and I'm sure enough others only want on our hd what I/we selected and currently have a need for. Ok, maybe the odd game we're not playing right now but maybe next month again. 1.5 gig is still a lot of space to be wasted.

W2k still does it for me in the Windows universe, all tweaked and hand-tuned, MacOS X looks a lot better and the new iTV looks appealing, and Linux and BSD are still a lot more exciting than the previous two.

A very personal opinion of course...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well.. ("express upgrade")
by CPUGuy on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 21:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Well.. ("express upgrade")"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, I really don't know if it is just unlocking features or if you will actually have to pop in your DVD, but everything does come on one DVD.

AppleTV is such a joke. $300 for a device that an Xbox360 can do PLUS console gameing. And even then the 360 can do a LOT more.
Maybe if it was around $150... maybe... but $300 is WAAAY to much for that device.

Reply Score: 2

well well
by Redeeman on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 19:27 UTC
Redeeman
Member since:
2006-03-23

or one shouldnt buy any vista at all ;) not a tough decision for me

(and no, i dont mean warez, i mean not having it at all ;) )

Reply Score: 5

RE: well well
by ronaldst on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 19:39 UTC in reply to "well well"
ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

We, Windows users, are are very happy for you.

While we enjoy Crysis, you can enjoy playing apt-get.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: well well
by Kroc on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:08 UTC in reply to "RE: well well"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Enjoy your Crysis. I'd rather spend the Vista + Hardware upgrade money on something useful, like having a life.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: well well
by ronaldst on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: well well"
ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

@Kroc

I hope you enjoy that "life". I know I will enjoy mine. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: well well
by pandronic on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: well well"
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

Well ... reading man pages and forums for the latest CLI tips and tricks on how to get your wi-fi card working is not much of a life.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: well well
by sappyvcv on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 21:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: well well"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Ah so if you ever play video games you instantly don't have a life. Cool.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: well well
by Kroc on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 21:45 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: well well"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Playing games is fine. Spending ridiculous money on extras just to play a game (because the developer is in bed with MS); so you can gloat at other people in Internet forums, is having no life.

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: well well
by sappyvcv on Wed 24th Jan 2007 22:17 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: well well"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

That statement is just as ridiculous.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: well well
by archiesteel on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 22:09 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: well well"
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

The real gaming scene is on game consoles anyway. Apart from WoW (which can be played on Linux, btw), there's really no need for Vista to get your gaming fix. Just spend the 400$ to buy a Xbox360 or a Wii with a couple of games...

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: well well
by chemical_scum on Wed 24th Jan 2007 15:21 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: well well"
chemical_scum Member since:
2005-11-02

Ah so if you ever play video games you instantly don't have a life.

Yes you got it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: well well
by rcsteiner on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 21:21 UTC in reply to "RE: well well"
rcsteiner Member since:
2005-07-12

Why assume that all Windows users are gonna buy Vista?

I know I'm certainly not -- I'm quite happy with Win95 OSR2 and Win2k on my boxes at home, and the corporate IT folks where I work are sticking with XP until at least 2008, and probably later.

For the money you folks shell out for Ultimate I can buy a pair of useful PCs. :-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: well well
by chemical_scum on Wed 24th Jan 2007 15:15 UTC in reply to "RE: well well"
chemical_scum Member since:
2005-11-02

we enjoy Crysis

What's Crysis. Some of us live in the real world.

Reply Score: 2

Some features missing from the article...
by Marty on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 19:31 UTC
Marty
Member since:
2006-01-10

For example, Ultimate has Remote Desktop, Home Premium doesn't.

Reply Score: 5

CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

Which is in Business Editions.

Reply Score: 1

melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

And this shows how much Microsoft doesn't care about the average user, doesn't it? Say if my dad buys a PC, preloaded with Windows Vista Home and he has a problem...and I want to help him. No go. Thanks very much Microsofts!!! Vista represents incredibly poor value for money, and I hope our Australian CHOICE magazine does a damning review of it, cos that's all it deserves.

Dave

Reply Score: 1

yak8998 Member since:
2006-07-28

Remote desktop, not remote assistance (I think...?)

Anyone want to clarify on that? I thought it was just remote desktop that was only on top end models

Reply Score: 1

melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

Well, in reality, they are the same thing. I cannot see remote assistance working unless you have a remote desktop to look at, etc.

Sure, you can install VNC (free) or PC Anywhere (proprietary and costly imho), but that makes it awkward, as it has to be installed, configured, which would be beyond my dad, and be a p.i.t.a for me to setup over the phone with him.

I'd love to move him to GNU/Linux, but he's using a winmodem, so alas...plus he's used to Windows and doesn't want to switch. Then there's the issue of administration, which would be far beyond his basic capabilities.

I honestly cannot recommend Vista, it's far overpriced.

Dave

Reply Score: 1

yak8998 Member since:
2006-07-28

Remote assistance works over the internet and through firewalls (a lot of the time). Remote desktop is just a VNC connection...

Reply Score: 1

lemmy Member since:
2005-07-10

is not.
remote desktop uses the rdp protocol, which is much faster than vnc.

Reply Score: 1

yak8998 Member since:
2006-07-28

sorry, meant same general concept. remote desktop works over the internet for helping your dad out with his taskbar being too large or something

Reply Score: 1

BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Remote desktop is entirely not a VNC connection, it's based on Citrix Winframe, try googling for info

Reply Score: 2

10 reasons to stop reading
by mark_in_rdjbrasil on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 19:39 UTC
mark_in_rdjbrasil
Member since:
2005-11-30

if i think about it long enough, i might try writing an article on 10 reasons to stop reading all articles about windows vista.

Reply Score: 5

RE: 10 reasons to stop reading
by stestagg on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:42 UTC in reply to "10 reasons to stop reading"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

1. Boredom
2. Boredom
3. Boredom

<...wanders off to do something else>

Reply Score: 5

Price difference
by FunkyELF on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:19 UTC
FunkyELF
Member since:
2006-07-26

I just ordered a laptop for my girlfriend and paid $10 for a future upgrade to Vista.

It got me thinking. Everyone is talking about whether or not Vista is worth the $400 or whatever it costs. For people building a PC from components, yeah, they'll have to ask themselves that, but the majority of people will just have to ask if Vista is worth $10 than Windows XP, or if Ultimate is worth $40 more than some other version of Vista. Then I'm sure there will be people saying that Vista is not worth the $10 shipping on the free upgrade price.

Reply Score: 3

Where's the common sense?
by cmost on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:23 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

Microsoft has missed another golden opportunity to wrest users back from Mac and Linux. With XP, it confused users by creating a crippled Home Edition and the more versatile (and more desired) Pro version of Windows. Now, with Vista, it has further compounded its mistake by adding even more supersets and subsets of the same operating system. Not only is this confusing for consumers, it also adds extra revenue to MS's already deep pockets by causing some people to buy additional licenses for the version they want (versus the crappy version they got.) What Microsoft should have done is create a simple, "Windows Core OS" that is highly modularized and expandable but very reasonably priced. Extra functionality could simply be added by purchasing separate "PLUS!" packs that are priced according to the features they add. For example: need Media Center features? Buy the Media Center plus pack. Want Tablet or bitlocker encryption? Purchase the Corporate Plus pack. Want Aero Glass? Purchase the Theme pack. You get the picture. Users wanting a lean mean system could utilize the Core OS and little else. Others could go the whole hog and create the "Ultimate" experience. I don't know why people over at Microsoft haven't thought of this yet. It makes the most sense.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Where's the common sense?
by suryad on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:51 UTC in reply to "Where's the common sense?"
suryad Member since:
2005-07-09

There is a program called vlite that does something now quite similar to your Windows Core OS. It takes the humongous vista dvd install and shrinks it down to be able to fit in a cd! Post install disk consumption drops by 4 gigs as well! And this program is in beta at the moment. Cant wait for the final to come out.

It is quite surprising to me how heavy Vista seems to be in just metrics in terms of disk usage. What did Microsoft put in there?!?! And makes me wonder what that vlite program is stripping out! I have yet to use it mind you for the simple fact that I dont have a copy of Vista.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Where's the common sense?
by Meanwhile on Wed 24th Jan 2007 00:46 UTC in reply to "Where's the common sense?"
Meanwhile Member since:
2005-09-03

Why? Simply because that's a way too intelligent solution.

Reply Score: 2

Business
by PLan on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:24 UTC
PLan
Member since:
2006-01-10

I suppose I'll end up with the Vista Business edition at some point. Ultimate seems a tad expensive for what it offers. In the UK this company is apparently already shipping Vista -

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/search_results.php?sortby=&groupid=33...

Reply Score: 1

$400 yikes
by CharAznable on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:26 UTC
CharAznable
Member since:
2005-07-06

It might do my taxes, or fetch beer from the fridge, but no matter which way you look at it, 400 bucks is 400 bucks. There is no way I can justify spending 400 bucks on a home OS, especially considering what the alternatives (including other versions of Windows) give you. I'm pretty sure you can build systems to run the thing for less than that.

With that amount of money, I could:
Get a cheap, new computer
Get an XBox 360 premium
Get a Nintendo Wii + controller + 2 games
Get a snazzy new video card
Pay a month of car payment + insurance
Buy two months worth of groceries
Buy a ticket to London
Go skiing for a weekend

Reply Score: 5

RE: $400 yikes
by stestagg on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:44 UTC in reply to "$400 yikes"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

400 bucks ... ... Buy a ticket to London

Same for me, and I live in Reading (UK). ;)

Reply Score: 4

xD
by SK8T on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:27 UTC
SK8T
Member since:
2006-06-01

no you should not buy it.

In germany it will cost 549.
For 659 you get a Mac Mini, with Front Row, ilife 06 (07 very soon) and Mac OS X Leopard (very soon). Leopard will do a lot more than Vista, even Tiger can do the same as Vista, and I think even better.

So for 100 more, you get a hole Computer - not just a Operating System! And you get the ability to install windows, if you like.

So it's just stupid to pay 549 for just an OS, when you can get a wohle Computer with a lot of great software (Front Row, PhotoBooth, iPhoto, iMovie, iWeb and GarageBand of course!); and a Operating system that can do a lot more than vista.

Edited 2007-01-23 20:29

Reply Score: 5

Home
by cyclops on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:50 UTC
cyclops
Member since:
2006-03-12

I want to see articles on Home as that is the the one that *used* to be the common OEM on most machines sold.

Nobody seems to want to talk about it.

Perhaps its just been *too* crippled.

Reply Score: 5

IMO
by zombie process on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 20:59 UTC
zombie process
Member since:
2005-07-08

$400 seems seriously outrageous to me no matter what they are offering. I only use windows at work, so the argument is strictly academic in my case, but seriously - $400? I can't fathom dropping that kind of cash on OS software, but then again I have the same problem when I look at Mac hardware. Maybe I'm just a cheapass...

Reply Score: 2

Reason??????????
by Matt24 on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 21:14 UTC
Matt24
Member since:
2005-07-23

Why should I !!!!!!!!!!!

Reply Score: 1

RE: Reason??????????
by sappyvcv on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 21:38 UTC in reply to "Reason??????????"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Because that $400 is better spent seeing a doctor to get you on medication to calm you down.

;)

Reply Score: 2

don't forget
by Mellin on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 21:17 UTC
Mellin
Member since:
2005-07-06

Windows Vista plus pack with worthless extra functions and programs (some are demo)

Reply Score: 1

Console gaming...
by kaworu1986 on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 22:35 UTC
kaworu1986
Member since:
2006-06-24

is good EXCEPT for FPSes: a gamepad is inadequate to play them.
As an aside, I think the main problem with Linux at the moment is the user interface: plain ugly and inconsistent across applications.
Hope KDE4 will do something about it.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Console gaming...
by archiesteel on Wed 24th Jan 2007 16:13 UTC in reply to "Console gaming..."
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

is good EXCEPT for FPSes: a gamepad is inadequate to play them.

Well, it's certainly not as good as a mouse and keyboard, but it's still playable. After all, Halo, Halo2 and Gears of War were huge successes.

I haven't tried a FPS with the Wiimote and nunchuk, but I've heard it's not all bad, either.

As an aside, I think the main problem with Linux at the moment is the user interface: plain ugly

Well, that I strongly disagree with. IMO, the UI lookes *better* than Windows', and just as good as OS X's.

and inconsistent across applications.

Not really, at least not any more than in Windows. Just look at the variety of File Open/Save dialogs in Windows apps, or the various widget styles, and so on.

In fact, GTK apps can now be themed to look like Qt apps. Soon Gnome apps will be able to use KDE File dialogs, toos, so the small UI inconsistencies will be even less important.

Reply Score: 2

OK,
by Matt24 on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 22:37 UTC
Matt24
Member since:
2005-07-23

I will buy THE Ultmate Edition: OSX.5

Reply Score: 1

In Australia...
by Anon on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 23:33 UTC
Anon
Member since:
2006-01-02

Vista ultimate is $700.

I mean FFS, who the F__K would spend $700 on a desktop OS? They need a right slapping.

Nobody's going to buy it, and if they do use it, it'll be pirated. $700 can go a long way elsewhere, eg, A holiday, or pay off extra on the mortgage.

Ridiculous.

Reply Score: 1

RE: In Australia...
by drynwhyl on Wed 24th Jan 2007 00:01 UTC in reply to "In Australia..."
drynwhyl Member since:
2006-05-14

> Nobody's going to buy it, and if they do use it, it'll
> be pirated.

Most of them would be copied anyway, raising the price _that high_ will just decrease the number of those who would buy it as a standalone product. The alternative would be paying money for one of the cripled versions, and then see people who copied it running the complete system.

And please dont refer to copyright infringement as "piracy", piracy was meant as a word to describe selling of copied goods, aka commercial counterfeiting, not just copying something for private use.

Reply Score: 1

RE: In Australia...
by hal2k1 on Wed 24th Jan 2007 03:33 UTC in reply to "In Australia..."
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

//Vista ultimate is $700.

I mean FFS, who the F__K would spend $700 on a desktop OS? They need a right slapping.

Nobody's going to buy it, and if they do use it, it'll be pirated. $700 can go a long way elsewhere, eg, A holiday, or pay off extra on the mortgage.

Ridiculous.//

For $700AUD and a free CD (say Ubuntu for arguement's sake) I can get a whole brand new computer with a decent LCD display and a printer/scanner and a far better OS and a complete set of desktop applications.

It would make no sense at all for me to blow that $700AUD on a copy of Vsta Ultimate and end up with only a round bit of shiny plastic to show for it.

Agreed. Ridiculous.

Edited 2007-01-24 03:36

Reply Score: 2

Quote
by aGNUstic on Tue 23rd Jan 2007 23:34 UTC
aGNUstic
Member since:
2005-07-28

"You would be wise to understand exactly how it works or else you may screw yourself over."

True on any computer but especially so for McSoft products.

Reply Score: 1

Way too expensive
by chartster on Wed 24th Jan 2007 00:40 UTC
chartster
Member since:
2006-12-18

When I spoke to friends in the US, I thought the full retail version of Ultimate was expensive.

When I called my local software shop here in Sydney, they quoted me $750, citing MS' actual pricing structure here in Oz.

I could by my entire year's worth of University textbooks for that, and have change for beers afterwards. That could even buy me a somewhat decent PC for doing my Uni work and run Linux.

What a crock - with pricing like that no wonder people are pirating their software. Not even XP Pro was even close to that the last time I checked.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Way too expensive
by kaiwai on Wed 24th Jan 2007 07:08 UTC in reply to "Way too expensive"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

If you're a university student, you can still get the academic edition of Windows Vista - with that being said, even if the price is reduced to AU$350, it is still alot of money given, like you said, what it could pay for.

Reply Score: 2

OEM vs Retail
by elsewhere on Wed 24th Jan 2007 03:35 UTC
elsewhere
Member since:
2005-07-13

In Canada, CDW has Vista ultimate listed at:

OEM - $259 CDN (about $220 USD)
Retail - $505 CDN (about $400 USD)
Upgrade - $311 CDN (about $250 USD)

The OEM is shipping now, the Retail/Upgrade are (I assume) not shipping until consumer launch.

Does the OEM version have the "per-machine" that volume manufacturers like Dell/HP have with their licensing? Or is it transferable since it's a non-manufacturer specific OEM license?

Not really tripping over myself looking to install Vista, but there's a huge delta between the OEM and the Retail pricing, so I'm just curious.

Reply Score: 2

RE: OEM vs Retail
by dswissmiss on Wed 24th Jan 2007 05:19 UTC in reply to "OEM vs Retail"
dswissmiss Member since:
2007-01-24

I was about to post the same thing. Who actually pays full price for these things?

From newegg.com (USD):
Home: $99.99
Home Premium: $119.99
Business: $149.99
Ultimate: $199.99

http://promotions.newegg.com/msvista/Vista_Products.html

64 bit versions are the same price.

Edited 2007-01-24 05:21

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: OEM vs Retail
by gregk on Wed 24th Jan 2007 14:12 UTC in reply to "RE: OEM vs Retail"
gregk Member since:
2006-03-13

"" rel="nofollow">http://promotions.newegg.com/msvista/Vista_Products.html"

Those are the oem licenses. In other words, non-transferable to another computer, whereas the retail versions are more expensive but can be moved to a new machine as long as you stop using it on the old machine.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: OEM vs Retail
by dswissmiss on Wed 24th Jan 2007 15:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: OEM vs Retail"
dswissmiss Member since:
2007-01-24

Ah, thanx for the explanation. I hear Microsoft now considers a motherboard upgrade a new computer, is that true?

Reply Score: 1

RE: OEM vs Retail
by DevL on Wed 24th Jan 2007 11:22 UTC in reply to "OEM vs Retail"
DevL Member since:
2005-07-06

OEM-versions of Vista are NOT transferable and MUST be installed on a NEW system in order to comply with Microsofts term.

Reply Score: 2

Difficult...
by kaiwai on Wed 24th Jan 2007 06:42 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

Its going to be difficult to decide given that they have not released any information on the 'extras' which are going to be bundled with Windows Vista ultimate.

If it includes free, unlimited access to a whole heap of 'paid for services' which is under the Live brand, then it might be a persuasive argument to purchase a copy.

With that being said, when it is released; one has to take into account the fact that 2 or so months later Fedora Core 7 will be released, with a over hauled way of how hardware is detected, the operating system loaded etc; Ubuntu will have another edition out, Novell would have shipped Service Pack 1 for their Linux desktop, and OpenSuSE a few months after the release of Fedora Core 7.

What Microsoft will have to do is justify that $399 for their ultimate edition; considering that Ultimate will be geared towards enthusiast crowd, the same bunch that could quite easily install Linux (or some other *NIX for that matter), its going to be interesting as to whether people will be willing to upgrade.

What I hope is that with these new standards coming on stream, core parts such as DBUS and HAL stablising, it should provide the stable grounding for third party software vendors to write for - which hopefully will spur on adoption by 'technical knowledgeable users'.

Reply Score: 3

but should you save your cash?
by present_arms on Wed 24th Jan 2007 09:04 UTC
present_arms
Member since:
2005-07-09

yes

Reply Score: 2

Bad article
by Karitku on Wed 24th Jan 2007 11:05 UTC
Karitku
Member since:
2006-01-12

I was hugely disappointed reading this article. Fact is that i won't be buying Ultimate, but article didn't even go thru everything. I think Paul Thurrot's site has better table of features that tells more than this 4 pages of wasted time.

Reply Score: 1