Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 25th Jan 2007 21:04 UTC
KDE "The KDE Project today announced the immediate availability of KDE 3.5.6, a maintenance release for the latest generation of the most advanced, powerful free desktop for GNU/Linux and other UNIXes. This release includes a number of fixes for KHTML, Kate, kicker, ksysguard, and lots of other applications."
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KDE 3.5.6 in action
by lqsh on Thu 25th Jan 2007 21:14 UTC
lqsh
Member since:
2007-01-01
Pclinuxos
by serlex on Thu 25th Jan 2007 21:40 UTC
serlex
Member since:
2007-01-09

havent used KDE before, is PCLinuxOS good place to start?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Pclinuxos
by joeprusa on Thu 25th Jan 2007 21:43 UTC in reply to "Pclinuxos"
joeprusa Member since:
2006-05-25

Definitely. Or, if you like deb better, go for Kubuntu. But PCLinuxOS is usually recommended as the most polished KDE desktop out there.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Pclinuxos
by britbrian on Thu 25th Jan 2007 21:56 UTC in reply to "Pclinuxos"
britbrian Member since:
2005-07-06

PCLinuxOS as a livecd, is a great way to test it on your hw. If you like it, login as root to see the install icon on the desktop. Thanks to the gnu tools upgrade, PCLOS is now current with latest sw.
The test release of PCLinuxOS 2007 will shortly go to
test 2 so you might want to wait a few days for it.
More info on the forum
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php

Reply Score: 4

suse
by collinm on Thu 25th Jan 2007 22:04 UTC
collinm
Member since:
2005-07-15

i thihk it's suse who have the most polished kde desktop

kubuntu is surely the most bugged kde desktop, just check kde bug, alot of bug only happen on kubuntu and not on other linux distribution

Reply Score: 5

RE: suse
by w00dst0ck on Thu 25th Jan 2007 22:46 UTC in reply to "suse"
w00dst0ck Member since:
2006-02-01

I don't use Kubuntu, but i think the bugs that are experienced by Kubuntu users is because the Kubuntu dev's run the lastest KDE version possible, sometimes with svn versions that haven't even been released yet. Think of Kubuntu as your bleeding edge KDE-wise distro.

So if you're looking for a more professional business like stable distro I would have to agree that Suse is more stable, but only for the fact that it doesn't do what Kubuntu does, and that's pushing out the lastest possible version of KDE to the masses for testing/use.

At least that's what I gather.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: suse
by zombie process on Fri 26th Jan 2007 14:58 UTC in reply to "RE: suse"
zombie process Member since:
2005-07-08

I'd have to say it's the gratuitous patching they do, actually, especially when said patching is designed to *remove* options from the users. I have all sorts of little issues with kde on my kubuntu install that I never see anywhere else. They sure have made it easy to hibernate/suspend, though, even if it's at the expense of some kcontrol options which are normally available to KDE users.

Reply Score: 3

RE: suse
by DeadFishMan on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:22 UTC in reply to "suse"
DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

I don't think that SuSE's KDE version is the most polished out there. They made some patches to accomodate some of Novell's new stuff and it is not quite stable as vanilla KDE that you can get from, say, Slackware or Debian Sarge/Etch/Sid.

But I have to second your remark about Kubuntu. I am currently running it (mostly because I got the CD for free and my 2 years old SimplyMEPIS installation was broken beyond repair) but this gotta be the worst Linux distro that I have ever played with (and I don't want to spend my time describing what's wrong with this distro... It will take way too much space to do that!). It WILL be replaced with the latest Etch that I just downloaded yesterday over the weekend.

Up to this moment there is still one serious bug with ksmserver (KDE Session Manager) that is Kubuntu specific and that is being patched for Edgy and backported for Dapper that is a heck of a showstopper. KDE is still an afterthought on Ubuntu-land and that becomes obvious when one compares it to their highly polished GNOME desktop which is gorgeous indeed, but just not my thing.

I'll miss their System Settings replacement for KDE's Control Center, though.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: suse
by DeadFishMan on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:01 UTC in reply to "RE: suse"
DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

I have to make up for some of the harsh words on that last post. Jonathon Riddell is one of the friendliest developers that I ever chatted with and seems to be a heck of a nice person. You can find him almost all the time on the #kubuntu channel over FreeNode helping people. The channel is user-friendly and even downright stupid questions are treated seriously and with respect.

I just feel that Canonical does not dedicate nearly as much manpower to the KDE version of their distro as it does for the GNOME version and it shows.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: suse
by superstoned on Fri 26th Jan 2007 15:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: suse"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

i can agree with you on all statements. Riddell is surely a very nice guy, with AND without beer ;-)

but Ubuntu still focusses on Gnome, their loss of course.

Reply Score: 3

Non live-cd ...
by WorknMan on Thu 25th Jan 2007 22:42 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

What's the best distro to try out KDE 3.5 on sans a livecd? I wanna see how fast Konquerer is at native speeds. Last time I tried it was around 3.1 or 3.2. It was too slow to be usable back then (at least when you compare it to Directory Opus on Windows), but they say it has gotten faster with newer releases.

NOTE: I'm not looking for the fastest distro possible .. eg, having to compile the whole thing from source. Just a distro that runs at decent speeds.

Edited 2007-01-25 22:46

Reply Score: 2

RE: Non live-cd ...
by Joe User on Thu 25th Jan 2007 22:46 UTC in reply to "Non live-cd ..."
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

Konqueror is not that fast. You'll be happier with Opera 9.10 if your concern is speed. And Opera integrates very well with KDE.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Non live-cd ...
by subject8 on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Non live-cd ..."
subject8 Member since:
2007-01-01

The rendering engine is faster than opera's whats slower is that it doubles as a file mamager

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Non live-cd ...
by WorknMan on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Non live-cd ..."
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

The rendering engine is faster than opera's whats slower is that it doubles as a file mamager

Yeah, I was referring to the file manager part. If it's still slow, guess I won't waste my time. Maybe Krusader is a better choice? I haven't tried it yet.
So far, I've not found a fast file manager for Linux with advanced features built in, such as these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_Opus

Someone help ? ;)

Edited 2007-01-25 23:41

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Non live-cd ...
by hal2k1 on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Non live-cd ..."
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

//If it's still slow, guess I won't waste my time. //

As a file manager, Konqueror is not slow. Not since KDE 3.5.4.

Krusader has more features again than Konqueror for file management, it is a bit slower to load than Konqueror though. For added speed, you can optionally have KDE load an instance of Konqueror at startup, similar to what Windows does for explorer.

There is a Linux equivalent for directory opus. I will look it up for you.

PS: I can't find the one I had in mind, that does graphical file differences & such. For pure file management tasks, Krusader, Konqueror, Nautilis and Worker are probably the best picks.

Edited 2007-01-25 23:58

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Non live-cd ...
by DeadFishMan on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:05 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Non live-cd ..."
DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

I heard lots of good things about a new KDE file manager called Dolphin but never felt the need to try anything other than Konqi. Seriously... Konqueror really is THAT good!

Maybe the parent poster wants to try that? http://enzosworld.gmxhome.de/

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Non live-cd ...
by Ookaze on Fri 26th Jan 2007 13:49 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Non live-cd ..."
Ookaze Member since:
2005-11-14

There is a Linux equivalent for directory opus. I will look it up for you.

PS: I can't find the one I had in mind, that does graphical file differences & such


That must be because it's called gentoo.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Non live-cd ...
by Damnshock on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Non live-cd ..."
Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15
RE[5]: Non live-cd ...
by hal2k1 on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:08 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Non live-cd ..."
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

Dolphin leaves .dolphin files everywhere it goes.

It is fast, but it is no faster than Konqueror.

Konqueror supports multiple panes, and tabs, and it has embedded viewers (including html and pdf), and it can access external filesystems such as nfs:// smb:// sftp:// and ftp://

Konqueror is neater than Dolphin, way more powerful than Dolphin, and just as fast as Dolphin.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Non live-cd ...
by Damnshock on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:14 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Non live-cd ..."
Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15

I do not agree.

I know konqueror has many more features than dolphin ( i USE konky) but IMHO dolphin is faster than konky ( as well as rox is faster than konky).

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Non live-cd ...
by hal2k1 on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:17 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Non live-cd ..."
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

//but IMHO dolphin is faster than konky//

What version of KDE?

I defy you to come up with a noticeable, measurable speed difference in the latest versions of KDE (3.5.4 or later).

Put it this way ... on my PCLinuxOS test 2007 system, which uses KDE 3.5.6, Konqueror is the fastest program to come up of all. It comes up quicker than kcalc!

Edited 2007-01-26 00:23

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Non live-cd ...
by Morty on Fri 26th Jan 2007 08:24 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Non live-cd ..."
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

I know konqueror has many more features than dolphin ( i USE konky)but IMHO dolphin is faster than konky

The modular way Konqueror are bulilt gives you the added features without decreased preformance. So having less fetures does not make Dolphin any faster. Neither does having a more spartan interface, even if some may think so. On the other side Konqueror have seen years of optimization and speed improvments, oposed to the new and unproven code base of Dolphin.

Edited 2007-01-26 08:28

Reply Score: 5

RE[6]: Non live-cd ...
by aseigo on Fri 26th Jan 2007 07:59 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Non live-cd ..."
aseigo Member since:
2005-07-06

> Dolphin leaves .dolphin files everywhere it goes.

i actually patched that so it uses the standard .directory files now.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Non live-cd ...
by archiesteel on Fri 26th Jan 2007 03:39 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Non live-cd ..."
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

I don't understand why you guys say that Konqueror is slow as a file manager...that's not my experience at all. How old are your machines?

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Non live-cd ...
by WorknMan on Fri 26th Jan 2007 14:35 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Non live-cd ..."
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I don't understand why you guys say that Konqueror is slow as a file manager...that's not my experience at all. How old are your machines?

Just comparing it to Dopus on Windows running on the same hardware, which takes about 1 second to render a directory with 2,300 files in it. Konquerer takes ... well, longer than that ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Non live-cd ...
by DeadFishMan on Fri 26th Jan 2007 14:53 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Non live-cd ..."
DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

Try ROX Filer... ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Non live-cd ...
by archiesteel on Fri 26th Jan 2007 14:53 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Non live-cd ..."
archiesteel Member since:
2005-07-02

Just comparing it to Dopus on Windows running on the same hardware, which takes about 1 second to render a directory with 2,300 files in it. Konquerer takes ... well, longer than that ;)

I just did a test here with my Kubuntu laptop, opening /usr/bin, and the rendering was almost instantaneous. Of course, I have file previews disabled, so that speed things up quite a bit.

Even then, thre are features that Konqueror has that Dopus lacks (mostly kio_slaves), which IMO makes Konqueror a better all-around app.

The fact that Dopus is not available for Linux kind of makes the whole point moot, though, doesn't it? Unless this was really meant as an underhanded criticism of Linux itself...

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Non live-cd ...
by Joe User on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Non live-cd ..."
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

> The rendering engine is faster than opera's

This is true, but I was refering to speed as a whole, for instance when you hit "Back" or "Forward", it's suggish with Konqueror. You don't feel the speed difference in rendering though.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Non live-cd ...
by hal2k1 on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Non live-cd ..."
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

//This is true, but I was refering to speed as a whole, for instance when you hit "Back" or "Forward", it's suggish with Konqueror. You don't feel the speed difference in rendering though.//

Back or Forward functions in the local filesystems are not slow. This would only apply to web pages ... other browsers use cache to speed up back or forward functions. I don't think Konqueror does.

Konqueror is not slow (any more) as a file manager, and it can load and render (correctly, it is acid2 compliant) a single web page at least as fast as, if not faster than, any other browser.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Non live-cd ...
by Oliver on Sat 27th Jan 2007 10:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Non live-cd ..."
Oliver Member since:
2006-07-15
RE[2]: Non live-cd ...
by fignew on Fri 26th Jan 2007 07:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Non live-cd ..."
fignew Member since:
2006-09-06

I think you misspoke yourself. Konqueror _is_ fast... It's just in second place behind Opera...

... but yes, opera is also very well suited for KDE (it's QT based)

source: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#linspeed

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Non live-cd ...
by Redeeman on Fri 26th Jan 2007 11:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Non live-cd ..."
Redeeman Member since:
2006-03-23

i doubt most of these tests though, except the history one, konquerors history is very slow, because of the way its stored (basically at every page open, it serializes all the data with a QDataStream, and then forces a sync).

and other than that, well, even if khtml is abit slower, i suppose its only fair, since it supports much more.

http://www.css3.info/selectors-test/
konqueror 3.5.6: 578/578
IE6: 276/578
firefox 2.0: 357/578
opera 9.10: 346/578

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Non live-cd ...
by hal2k1 on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:39 UTC in reply to "Non live-cd ..."
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

//What's the best distro to try out KDE 3.5 on sans a livecd?//

Still PCLinuxOS, IMO.

PCLinuxOS boots to a LiveCD so you can check out if it will recognise all your hardware, and if it does you can click on an icon and install to HD.

It is far, far slicker and quicker and easier to install and run than SuSe or Ubuntu or Kubuntu or anything else I have come across.

//Konqueror is not that fast.//

Actually, since about KDE 3.5.4 or later, it is. It is almost as quick as a file manager now as thunar or rox, but it is far more powerful than both of those.

Edited 2007-01-25 23:41

Reply Score: 4

RE: Non live-cd ...
by B12 Simon on Fri 26th Jan 2007 11:16 UTC in reply to "Non live-cd ..."
B12 Simon Member since:
2006-11-08

If it's speed you're after, try Slackware. You'll have to "get your hands dirty" a little more than with other distros, but it's not nearly as fearsome as its reputation.

You'll get a recent KDE with the default install and I'm sure the latest version will be on LinuxPackages in no time:

http://www.linuxpackages.net/search_view.php?by=name&name=kde&ver=1...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Non live-cd ...
by superstoned on Fri 26th Jan 2007 15:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Non live-cd ..."
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

or arch-linux. at least it supports hal and some other modern stuff, has a nice rolling-release schedule, a ports-like system to install from source - and it's fast and clean.

Reply Score: 4

Pclinuxos
by subject8 on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:08 UTC
subject8
Member since:
2007-01-01

Yes you can find this up to date kde on pclinuxos newest beta live cd installable as well, kubuntu is all good and well , but for out of the box "just works" as in mac linux pclinuxos is the best

Reply Score: 2

GNU/Linux and other UNIXes
by Doc Pain on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:22 UTC
Doc Pain
Member since:
2006-10-08

The article's description (original KDE article quoted):

"The KDE Project today announced the immediate availability of KDE 3.5.6, a maintenance release for the latest generation of the most advanced, powerful free desktop for GNU/Linux and other UNIXes. This release includes a number of fixes for KHTML, Kate, kicker, ksysguard, and lots of other applications."

Wasn't GNU supposed to read out "GNU is not UNIX"? If that's correct, "and other UNIXes" would be incorrect, because GNU/Linux is not a UNIX (by its own definition), so there are no "and other UNIXes". In my opinion, "GNU/Linux and UNIXes" would be correct. GNU/Linux and UNIXes are two sets, GNU/Linux (systems) is not a subset of UNIX (systems). "And other" implies this relation. (Because peope like fruit analogies, "apples and other pears" would be incorrect, but "apples and other fruits" or "apples and pears" would be correct.)

Maybe I'm a bit pedantic... :-)

To get back on topic: Some of the default file bindings of KDE are a bit complicated for "just work" users, e. g. Amarok searching all accessible media if you just want to play a media file. The KDE applications itself are quite fast, even from the PLOS live system CD. The german language support is inconsistent and in some cases incorrect, but it doesn't really matter because we have a high rate of functional illiteracy here in Germany - along with our dynamic Newspeak. :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes
by Joe User on Thu 25th Jan 2007 23:49 UTC in reply to "GNU/Linux and other UNIXes"
Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

> In my opinion, "GNU/Linux and UNIXes" would be correct

FreeBSD and Solaris ain't more Unix than Linux, for instance, so the above is still not correct. There is only one Unix system, it's the original Unix™ system.

You could say "GNU/Linux and other Unix-like systems".

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes
by Doc Pain on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:07 UTC in reply to "RE: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

Reentering -Wall -pedantic mode...

"FreeBSD and Solaris ain't more Unix than Linux, for instance, so the above is still not correct."

That's right, I agree. But I was refering to the claims the OS families did for theirselves. For example, GNU/Linux claims not to be UNIX ("GNU is not UNIX"), while FreeBSD claims to be "Based on BSD UNIX". So Linux denies to be a UNIX, while FreeBSD (as other BSDs) and Solaris mention their roots. Solaris has its roots in UNIX System V, which comes from BSD UNIX and this one once came from AT&T UNIX, if I can believe the Wikipedia information. So let's be more correct:

"There is only one Unix system, it's the original Unix™ system."

You're refering to the UNIX(R) (the successor of MULTICS), from it's First Edition up to the Secenth Edition, which is a registered trademark of AT&T. In the past, BSD included the term "UNIX" ("BSD UNIX").

SINIX, AIX, HP-UX, IRIX etc. could be considered the same category you suggested.

"You could say "GNU/Linux and other Unix-like systems"."

Yes, that would be more correct than correct, ubercorrect :-)

Reply Score: 2

superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

GNU's Not Unix means it IS NOT UNIX, it's an unix-like system but not unix itself. clear?

Reply Score: 3

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

"GNU's Not Unix means it IS NOT UNIX, it's an unix-like system but not unix itself. clear?"

This is nothing else than I stated. So the descriptin extracteeed from the artice is a bit incorret because it implies GNU/Linux to be a UNIX. Not more, not less. No need to be offensive.

Reply Score: 1

superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

it is A unix, definitely. but not 'THE' unix, that's why it tells you 'GNU's Not Unix'.

let's say you'r name is Mohammed. possible, of course. you are 'a Mohammed', like there are more of them. but you are not 'THE Mohammed', you're not the prophet. so you're NOT Mohammed, in a way.

so GNU IS a Unix, but it is NOT Unix. ok?

Reply Score: 2

Havin_it Member since:
2006-03-10

He's not THE UNIX, he's a very naughty boy!

Don't flame, it's about as relevant as the entirety of the preceding thread. Surely we can all interpret what they were getting at, and nobody needs to be taken out back and shot by the Lingo Police?

Reply Score: 1

superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

hey, Lingo rulez ;)


but yeah, agreed....

Reply Score: 2

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

"He's not THE UNIX, he's a very naughty boy!"

Who, (some) Mohammed? :-)

"[...] nobody needs to be taken out back and shot by the Lingo Police?"

They shoot? Better throw with books, AS/400 systen documentation if available. :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes
by Oliver on Sat 27th Jan 2007 10:26 UTC in reply to "RE: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes"
Oliver Member since:
2006-07-15

FreeBSD and Solaris are real derivatives, Linux is mimicking Unix. So *BSD is "real" Unix without the trademark and so on.

>You could say "GNU/Linux and other Unix-like systems".

Unix-like is true only for GNU/Linux. But to be true a modern Unix with lot of BSD code in it, would be Unix-like too (compared to original Unix in '69) ;)

Reply Score: 1

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

"FreeBSD and Solaris are real derivatives, [...]"

Exactly as I stated.

"Linux is mimicking Unix. So *BSD is "real" Unix without the trademark and so on.

>You could say "GNU/Linux and other Unix-like systems".

Unix-like is true only for GNU/Linux. But to be true a modern Unix with lot of BSD code in it, would be Unix-like too (compared to original Unix in '69) ;) "


These were my thoughts. I'm just filing a report for THINKPOL so they can punish me for still being in -Wall -pedantic mode. :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes
by hal2k1 on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:14 UTC in reply to "GNU/Linux and other UNIXes"
hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

//Some of the default file bindings of KDE are a bit complicated for "just work" users, e. g. Amarok searching all accessible media if you just want to play a media file.//

This is a misunderstanding of the intended use of Amarok.

Amarok is not "just a media player", but rather it is a media collection browser and player.

Amarok's "scan the media collection" only happens on first run anyway.

If you want to just click on a file & play it, a better choice for that is XMMS or Mplayer or Kaffeine.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes
by Doc Pain on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:31 UTC in reply to "RE: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

"This is a misunderstanding of the intended use of Amarok.

Amarok is not "just a media player", but rather it is a media collection browser and player."


That's exactly my point. I know this behaviour of Amarok and its intended functions. I just wanted to state it to be not a good default binding for media files, because if Joe Q. Average doubleclicks a music file, he wants to play it, nothing more. I'm not complaining about Amarok itself.

"Amarok's "scan the media collection" only happens on first run anyway."

Which could mean trouble and irritation for Joe Q. Sixpack if he just wants to play his music...

"If you want to just click on a file & play it, a better choice for that is XMMS or Mplayer or Kaffeine."

As I would have said. :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes
by Wrawrat on Fri 26th Jan 2007 01:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes"
Wrawrat Member since:
2005-06-30

That's exactly my point. I know this behaviour of Amarok and its intended functions. I just wanted to state it to be not a good default binding for media files, because if Joe Q. Average doubleclicks a music file, he wants to play it, nothing more. I'm not complaining about Amarok itself.

Last I heard, Amarok wasn't a part of the default KDE desktop; thus, distributors are making it as a default binding.

That said, I do agree that something like Kaffeine would be a wiser choice for opening a file. I would even go as far to say that using anything else than Amarok would be a wiser choice, but that's just me... (It's really powerful, but I find the interface horrible, kinda like KDevelop)

Reply Score: 2

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

"Last I heard, Amarok wasn't a part of the default KDE desktop; thus, distributors are making it as a default binding."

Yes, I see. My elaborated observation was about openSuSE, as far as I remember. So this does not seem to be a matter of KDE, but of the respective distribution designers. I don't really know if other distributions handle it another way. In my opinion it would be better so the KDE desktop is easier to use for Joe Q. Average and even for Timmybob M. Stupid. :-) Doubleclicking on a file should just open the file - and play it, as an example of media files, or load it into the respective application instead of searching for more files. The default should be simple; more advanced users will know how to change the bindings if they really want to connect Amarok to certain file types. Joe and Timmybob surely won't. And maybe they get disappointed if it looks to complicated.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes
by Morty on Fri 26th Jan 2007 08:16 UTC in reply to "RE: GNU/Linux and other UNIXes"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

If you want to just click on a file & play it, a better choice for that is XMMS or Mplayer or Kaffeine.

Or even better Kaboodle, it's afterall what it's designed to do.

Reply Score: 3

Maintenance Release
by antwarrior on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:26 UTC
antwarrior
Member since:
2006-02-11

I am not trolling, before anyone begins pointing fingers
but I think this has been mentioned before on OSNEWS. Are maintenance release really news worthy ? I can understand to a certain degree the last GNOME release because you get told more than just there were fixes in the text editors and libraries. It may be because it's showing fairness and impartiality to equal appropriate coverage of both DEs, It is hard to comment on a story like this and have a useful discussion.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Maintenance Release
by B12 Simon on Fri 26th Jan 2007 11:22 UTC in reply to "Maintenance Release"
B12 Simon Member since:
2006-11-08

I think it's worthwhile. I'd not have known about it otherwise. Also as it's a maintenance release, I'll actually install it.

Meaning no disrespect to the KDE devs and testers, I'd not install a x.0 release of something so important.

Reply Score: 2

PCLinuxOS: Storm is coming!
by nedvis on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:42 UTC
nedvis
Member since:
2006-01-02

"What's the best distro to try out KDE 3.5 on sans a livecd?"
It would be PCLinuxOS definitely and its derivative SAMLinux. I'm using PLOS 0.92 (with nVIDIA kernel module)
on my Celeron 500 MHz system with 256 Mb SDRAM since June last year and cosider that distro most valuable code I've ever installed on that poor Pentium II generation Compaq PC. I've also installed same version PCLinuxOS on several other system just to prove its excellent hardware detection abilities and perfect performance.
One thing I can't really understand is why's that mavellous distribution so undervalued and overlooked.
Today PSLinuxOS is #1 distro on Distrowatch.com Top 100
Linux list and If I remember well It was August or September 2007 when I submitted news to OSnews.com
that PCLinuxOS jumped to 1st place on that same list but the news was ignored.
I simply couldn't resist to submit the news since there
was so much hype surrounding ...buntu distros last summer. I've tried all Canonical Linux variants on my systems just to wipe out my hard-disks and install something else ( Mint-Linux,Dream Linux and blazing fast Slackware 11.0 based Vector Linux 5.8 come to mind).
PCLinuxOS is intended for desktop systems but it also gave me rock solid foundation for samba/FTP and WEB server. It turn to be one of distros with most complete multimedia support besides all polish, customization optins etc. With little more than 5000 packages ported
by Texstar and Co. to distribution all available in numerous PCLinuxOS repositories PSLinuxOS is not on par with 20000 items *.deb packages list but what you have already is thoroughly tested and well implemented.
BTW sometimes I really think Debian (as well as Ubuntu ) list of packages really looks like museum of Linux archeology quite often very confusing even to me who is using Linux for more than eight years now.
Whats most impressive with PSLinuxOS is their implementation of "Install once - upgrade as you go"
If I remember well original install gave me KDE 3.4.2 version and now I have KDE 3.5.4 . No hassle no glitch so far.
I bet PSLinuxOS will be Linux distro of the Year 2007!
Read more: http://tuxmachines.org/node/12897

Reply Score: 3

RE: PCLinuxOS: Storm is coming!
by collinm on Fri 26th Jan 2007 03:34 UTC in reply to "PCLinuxOS: Storm is coming!"
collinm Member since:
2005-07-15

if you search absolutely performance, i think arch or pardus linux is the best choice

pardus is really fast

Reply Score: 1

Re: Pclinuxos
by richmoore on Fri 26th Jan 2007 00:43 UTC
richmoore
Member since:
2005-08-06

Personally I've never heard of this distro, and from the web site it sounds like there's not been a release. I'd recommend suse if you want a KDE desktop, or slackware if you want unmodified sources.

Reply Score: 2

RE: to richmoore
by nedvis on Fri 26th Jan 2007 01:07 UTC in reply to "Re: Pclinuxos"
nedvis Member since:
2006-01-02

"Personally I've never heard of this distro..."
That's exactly what I was talking about. PCLinuxOS was/is
most overlooked distro to my best knowledge.
As in Shakespeare "Much Ado About Nothing" there were series of articles, reviews and opinions on Canonical Linux project and other releases from SuSE , Fedora and/or <your favourite distro name here> while PCLinuxOS was pushed to margine.
Only bunches of PCLinuxOS devoted developers, supporters and Linux aficionados knew what treasures were hidden behind not so attractive distribution release numbers e.g. 0.85 , 0.92(a) or 0.93. Was that misleading release numbering system strategical trick or such I don't know but what they were brewing behind
the scene was pure Ambrosia !

Edited 2007-01-26 01:09

Reply Score: 2

Kopete
by Mehigh on Fri 26th Jan 2007 01:06 UTC
Mehigh
Member since:
2005-07-10

What is the state of Kopete? Do file transfers on Yahoo Messenger work? So far no IM programs on linux have functional YM transfers. Anything on this?

Reply Score: 1

file size?
by serlex on Fri 26th Jan 2007 01:24 UTC
serlex
Member since:
2007-01-09

coming from a noob (and someone lazy) why is suse so big (download size) compared to PClinuxOS

Reply Score: 1

RE: file size?
by Terracotta on Fri 26th Jan 2007 02:00 UTC in reply to "file size?"
Terracotta Member since:
2005-08-15

Because you get a lot of apps on the dvd to install as well (and you get a crippled OS when it comes to multimedia).

Reply Score: 1

the fastest and cleanest KDE
by unclefester on Fri 26th Jan 2007 05:17 UTC
unclefester
Member since:
2007-01-13

I actually think PC-BSD is the fastest and most polished KDE experience. Lightweight and very well thought out. Nice icons and themes too. Multimedia and MS fonts are just a few clicks on the PBI packages. Openuse 10.2 has horrible menus and bloated packages. Kubuntu is totally unpolished and quite flaky.

Reply Score: 3

It hurts to see everyone bashing Kubuntu
by fignew on Fri 26th Jan 2007 07:04 UTC
fignew
Member since:
2006-09-06

Mainly because I don't see what's wrong with it... All the Linux users I know (in real life) run Kubuntu (one runs Ubuntu), and none have any major complaints. Has anyone here _specifically_ come across anything that would count as unpolished?

Reply Score: 2

DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

You can't resize the fonts for the KDM login screen, for one simple one.

Starting up the GTK-QT widget selector crashed Gnome, at least a while back (which I didn't realize because I didn't use Gnome much)

Reply Score: 2

jjmckay Member since:
2005-11-11

" Has anyone here _specifically_ come across anything that would count as unpolished?"

The 'display' screen in the Configure - KDesktop applet is gone after updating KDE to 3.5.5 in kUbuntu 6.06 and for no good reason except apparent laziness. I asked why in the kUbuntu forums and got such an answer.

Reply Score: 3

superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

you should stick to the official packages, these updates are a nice service, but no garantuees, they don't get tested or bugfixed at all....

use edgy, the kde 3.5.5 in there is tested and integrated. or wait for feisty with 3.5.6 or 3.5.7

Reply Score: 3

DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

1) My favorite theme, Polyester, for some reason looks a lot different - and uglier - from what you can see on its homepageīs screenshots or from what I can see on my Debian Etch that I have running under MS VirtualPC at work. No matter what I do, I canīt change that (Already tried to compile from the source to no avail).

2) The aforementioned KDE Session Manager bug is driving me crazy but it is being addressed as we speak: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/67889

This problem also affects FreeNX as it has to start the ksmserver as well when one starts a remote session. And it becomes worse since X crashes and even the Sysrq Magic keys donīt work. I tried to log into the machine using PuTTY afterwards but I couldnīt. Donīt know if the entire OS is hung or just if X is taking all the resources available. Regardless, I have to resort to a cold restart everytime.

3) Every once in a while, Kubuntu fails to mount my /home partition for no reason and I donīt know why, X refuses to start when it does that. So when I boot it up, instead of being presented with KDM, I have to logon at the shell. Not a big deal, but can you imagine my wifeīs face when she saw that? (Of course, she went to Windoze immediately afterwards.... :-)

3.b) The fact that it did not mounted the /home filesystem for the first time almost caused me a heart attack, as I logged on and suddenly I couldnīt find my video and audio collections nor my family pictures. Eventually I found the mounting problem but until that point, I was kicking and screaming bloody murder!

4) Some packages are not as up to date as you would imagine such as Amarok and k9copy for instance even though everything is updated to the latest versions available.

5) When Iīm working from my wifeīs or my daughterīs profile and need to do something that requires administrative priviledges, I am prompted to enter that userīs password for sudo on the kdesu prompts instead of rootīs. Since it does not accept the root password and it also refuses my first user password, I have to resort to the shell and run su to be able to do anything. (And NO! I wonīt add my wife and childrenīs profiles to the adm and/or admin groups nor I will enable their user accounts to use sudo. That simply does not make sense. AT ALL!)

6) Talking about groups, I was quite surprised that I had to add my wife to the audio group manually as initially we couldnīt get audio from any application from her profile no matter which application and backend engine I used.

7) KWallet never opens before an application request a stored a password. Eg: I always have to enter my e-mail password on Kontact and only after that is that I got the prompt to open KWallet. Now, thatīs odd!

7) Generally speaking, Kubuntu is SLOW. It is better than Ubuntu but compared to my old Mepis installation, both are terribly slow. I canīt point my finger where the problem is yet and I donīt have nothing of that Mono nonsense installed on my system, but even when the machine is idle doing nothing, I can see on htop (or top) that it is taking more resources than it should. I saw several kernel modules loaded by default (at least three times more than Mepis) but I donīt know if that is what causing it to be so slow.

I could spend all day long detailing small and irritating things that I found on this distro but I think that you got my point. Most are small things and can be easily circumvented but the mounting problem and the KDE Session Manager really are showstoppers, as far as I can tell.

Ubuntu is gorgeous but I canīt stand GNOMEīs lack of response on an old machine and I tend to use KDE or QT apps most of the time so there is little point keeping it. I installed the ubuntu-desktop meta package out of curiosity mostly as I wanted to have a taste of how GNOME feels these days.

I am still trying to like Adept, but since I can use it on Etch I can keep trying it out. The only thing positive that I can say about Kubuntu is that it found all of my hardware, including the webcam (it is the only one that did it so far but it is not a big deal) and I really like System Settings, so I will miss it.

But my overall experience with Kubuntu has been frustrating so far.

Reply Score: 5

hal2k1 Member since:
2005-11-11

//But my overall experience with Kubuntu has been frustrating so far.//

Agreed. Kubuntu is buggy & not-quite-stable. Mostly annoyances.

That thing with "no root account" is also very non-standard.

If people like Kubuntu, then they should LOVE PCLinuxOS.

Reply Score: 2

lord_rob Member since:
2005-08-06

That thing with "no root account" is also very non-standard.

sudo passwd

(type root password)

Reply Score: 2

DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

Ah! I forgot to mention:

8) I like to run alternative window managers every once in a while so it is not unusual to find Windowmaker, Icewm and Enlightenment DR16 installed along side KDE on my machines. And while Enlightenment runs flawlessly on my Debian Etch under a virtual machine(!) it hangs all the time under Kubuntu and all that I have to do is to keep browsing its applications menus.

So, it is not that I ainīt giving a fair share to Kubuntu īcause I have been trying it as my main OS for over two weeks but all these annoyances are getting on my nerves.

Perhaps it is a good OS for the newbie but I canīt see myself using it again for quite some time. Again, no harm intended to the developers as I am sure that they do all that they can with the small amount of resources that they currently have. I thought that with Mark Shuttlesworth himself saying that he uses Kubuntu (donīt know if that is still true) Canonical would devote a certain level of attention to it but looks like I was wrong.

Reply Score: 2

superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

well, i'm not saying it is perfect, but edgy does a great job here. i use it at work - no problems... I'm going to recommend to my employer to upgrade the Dapper systems to edgy, as dapper DOES have several issues...

Reply Score: 3

fignew Member since:
2006-09-06

Just a few comments:
3: is /home listed in fstab? Have you checked out /etc/init.d/mountall.sh ?

4: All applications are at most 6 months old. My Amarok, for example, is 1.4.3... the latest version is 1.4.4 but that came out after the Kubuntu Edgy release. Also, often times newer software will be available for Kubuntu: case in point, KDE 3.5.6... available for download from the Kubuntu home page for Edgy.

5: you can allow them to sudo, but still require the root pass... just a bit of work in the sudoers config.

6: no suprise, the audio group is a remnant of Debian! You learn to love it ;)

7: something is misconfigured in kwallet. Mine works perfectly (from out of the box)

7: Well, at least the bootup is fast ;)

:P

Edited 2007-01-26 16:47

Reply Score: 1

DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

3: is /home listed in fstab? Have you checked out /etc/init.d/mountall.sh ?
Yes and yes. I can mount it manually just fine when I log in as root. This one got me scratching the back of my head as I never seen such a thing before.

4: All applications are at most 6 months old. My Amarok, for example, is 1.4.3... the latest version is 1.4.4 but that came out after the Kubuntu Edgy release. Also, often times newer software will be available for Kubuntu: case in point, KDE 3.5.6... available for download from the Kubuntu home page for Edgy.

My Amarok seems to be the latest available on universe/multiverse repositories based on what I can see from the splash screen and from the About... dialog. But it still does not have Magnatunes integrated on the UI as it used to before on Mepis.

5: you can allow them to sudo, but still require the root pass... just a bit of work in the sudoers config.

I see your point and it is a trivial enough change to make but I donīt want to tweak that myself. kdesu should accept either the first userīs password (optional) or at the very least, rootīs password.

6: no suprise, the audio group is a remnant of Debian! You learn to love it ;)

I LOVE Debian and use it often so no problem there. ;) I just found odd that a newbie-friendly distro would requires me to add user to specific groups just to be able to, say, hear sound, burn a CD or shutdown the machine.

7: something is misconfigured in kwallet. Mine works perfectly (from out of the box)

I KNOW! ;) Believe me; I even deleted the whole ~/.kde directory to ensure that everything would start with its defaults but I still cannot make KWallet work properly.

7: Well, at least the bootup is fast ;)

I kinda liked that, too. And when you remove certain unnecessary daemons (in my case, blue_utilz and the HP Inkjet something) it gets even faster. And my wife liked the grub splash screen (Thatīs a nice touch, I gotta admit...). I try to remove as much as I can from Debian init scripts but I never manage to get it that fast.

But compared to the old Mepis (donīt know about the new one based on Kubuntu), Kubuntu had only a slight advantage on speed so it was not enough to get me hooked. ;)

Reply Score: 2

fignew Member since:
2006-09-06

My Amarok seems to be the latest available on universe/multiverse repositories based on what I can see from the splash screen and from the About... dialog. But it still does not have Magnatunes integrated on the UI as it used to before on Mepis.
You're running Edgy, right? Because I have the magnatunes intergration, and it works fine (i've bought some music from there.)

I see your point and it is a trivial enough change to make but I donīt want to tweak that myself. kdesu should accept either the first userīs password (optional) or at the very least, rootīs password.
I think Kubuntu will auto add the user to the audio group if you use the GUI user add dialog, I'm guessing you used the commandline to add the user.

I'm still very content with Kubuntu, however, all this talk about PClinuxOS has gotten me interested. (I wish it was deb based!)

Reply Score: 1

DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

My Amarok seems to be the latest available on universe/multiverse repositories based on what I can see from the splash screen and from the About... dialog. But it still does not have Magnatunes integrated on the UI as it used to before on Mepis.
You're running Edgy, right? Because I have the magnatunes intergration, and it works fine (i've bought some music from there.)


Dapper. But I know my way around Debian-derived distros as I used lots of them and even followed instructions on UbuntuGuide.org for lots of things so I was willing to update whatever I need to update just to get the latest Amarok in place. Magnatunes is just on thing that was bothering me. The other one is that the integration with MusicBrainz.com (to fill out ID3 tags on music files that donīt have them) is currently broken and thatīs a critical feature for me.

I see your point and it is a trivial enough change to make but I donīt want to tweak that myself. kdesu should accept either the first userīs password (optional) or at the very least, rootīs password.
I think Kubuntu will auto add the user to the audio group if you use the GUI user add dialog, I'm guessing you used the commandline to add the user.


That is correct. I did add my wifeīs user account manually on the command line as I have been doing for years. If thatīs true then they need to patch the command line adduser to do the same thing as the GUI. I understand that, being a GUI-centric distro, they will give more love to the GUI utilities but they cannot let the inner workings of the OS behind like that.

Actually, that gave me a scary thought: It is very unlikely that adduser is the only command line that needs to be changed to be "Ubuntu-compliant".

I'm still very content with Kubuntu, however, all this talk about PClinuxOS has gotten me interested. (I wish it was deb based!)

I understand that. I had nice chats with lots of people on their channel that were coming from other distros that were extremely happy with Kubuntu so I can completely understand your statement and I donīt wanna sound like a troll bashing something without even trying it. But I realized that almost all the good things about Kubuntu I could reproduce with Etch but Etch doesnīt have not even one tenth of the headaches.

I always wanted to try PCLinuxOS as well but the fact that it is a RPM distro always kept me away from it. Is not that I canīt stand them as I used RH for several years at home and at work and even played a little with early Fedora releases, but I became spoiled with Debian and its huge repositories shortly after. ;)

Reply Score: 2

i have always been a SUSE fan because
by REMF on Fri 26th Jan 2007 08:32 UTC
REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

SUSE always has a quality KDE desktop
SUSE is a kitchen-sink distro with DVD iso's
YAST is a fantastic do-anything management tool for n00b's
SUSE is pretty bomb-proof, and yet pretty bleeding edge

that said, the new PCLINUX OS is very interesting in that:
it is based of a solid commercial distro - Mandriva
it has the magic of Texstar waved over it
it comes with lots of codecs, unlike SUSE
it comes with Openoffice 2.1.0 and KDE 3.5.6

some questions that might sway me:
> does it come with nVidia drivers?
> do they do a DVD iso?
> can you just 'use' mandriva compiled rpm's?
> are PCLOS repo's already setup on a default install?

Reply Score: 2

present_arms Member since:
2005-07-09

some questions that might sway me:
> does it come with nVidia drivers?
Not on the cd but only a synaptic away
> do they do a DVD iso?
There are variants of pclinuxos that are DVD in size like Pclinuxos gamers edition
> can you just 'use' mandriva compiled rpm's?
Pclinuxos hasn't used a mandriva base for some time although it still uses tweaked versions of mandrake tools like the excellent pclinuxos control center which in my opinion is better than yast. The website warns you not to use mandriva rpms although some will install fine.
> are PCLOS repo's already setup on a default install?
simple answer is yes.

All the best
Alie

Reply Score: 1

waiting
by serlex on Fri 26th Jan 2007 15:53 UTC
serlex
Member since:
2007-01-09

Ubuntu was and is my first Linux, havent used KDE yet, im gona wait for final PCLinuxOS (end of month), if i like it, i might download the whole suse

Reply Score: 1

OS X
by nighty5 on Fri 26th Jan 2007 23:48 UTC
nighty5
Member since:
2005-12-18

I can't wait until some apps on KDE 4 are natively ported and mature on OS X.

Yum!

Since moving to OS X I do miss some of the K apps.....

Reply Score: 1

RE: OS X
by Redeeman on Sat 27th Jan 2007 03:48 UTC in reply to "OS X"
Redeeman Member since:
2006-03-23

do yourself a favor and not use osx then ;)

Reply Score: 3

The known "make a task silent" bug in Kcron...
by usr0 on Sat 27th Jan 2007 16:22 UTC
usr0
Member since:
2006-10-27

...is still not been fixed. ;)

Well, normally I do not use those GUI based administration tools like Kcron but I just wanted to know how to make task "silent" (receiving no mails if the task has been executed). So I tried to use Kcron to see what Kcron does to make a task silent but if I mark this option Kcron cannot save the changes.

Anybody knows how to make a task "silent"? I have read about a workaround: Changing 'MAILTO="root"' to 'MAILTO=""' but I do not want to make all cron jobs silent - just some of them.

Reply Score: 1

pardus
by collinm on Sat 27th Jan 2007 22:47 UTC
collinm
Member since:
2005-07-15

somebody tried pardus?

Reply Score: 1