Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 11:33 UTC, submitted by frik85
ReactOS "As Vista's deployment ramps up, news has begun to circulate that its highly regarded Protected Media Path has been defeated. The Protected Media Path is an array of Digital Rights Management technologies that allows 'premium content' to be 'enjoyed' by the consumer. The individual that has been labeled responsible for this feat is Alex Ionescu. Alex Ionescu is highly experienced and talented programmer whose primary work concentrates on the community-based ReactOS project. ReactOS is an open source operating system based on the Windows architecture. To get a better understanding of his work, Slyck.com interviewed Alex who dispelled many of the myths surrounding his work, while also providing insight into his accomplishments."
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Remember
by Kroc on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 12:45 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Remember every time you're pissed off that the RIAA has sued somebody's dead friend / mother / cat. Remember every time you're pissed off that Sony are screwing you over with DRM at every corner. Remember every time you're pissed off with Starforce and not being able to play your own games.

Remember that by running Vista, you are actively supporting the companies who utilise these anti-consumer measures, and by running Vista you are agreeing to let them continue doing so.

Say no to buying all new hardware just because DRM told you so. Say no to non-revolutionary technologies that only seek to make you repurchase all your existing media over again.

Say No to Vista.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Remember
by WorknMan on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 14:56 UTC in reply to "Remember"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Remember that by running Vista, you are actively supporting the companies who utilise these anti-consumer measures, and by running Vista you are agreeing to let them continue doing so.

Alright, so you tell me which one is worse:

- Person A buys Vista, but doesn't purchase any DRM'd content by the RIAA/MPAA
- Person B boycotts Vista in order to stick it to 'the man', but then goes out and buys a Playstation 3 (includes a Blu-Ray player) and/or and Xb0x 360 with the HD-DVD addon, and a buttload of movies to go along with it

A quote from the article:

This hardware requirement has infuriated consumers across the globe, as Microsoft has stated the movie and music industry have demanded this level of protection. However, it appears that no one has offered any advocacy on behalf of the consumer

So why doesn't the consumer do their own advocacy by voting with their damn wallets, instead of expecting others to do the work for them? If you want to boycott something, then boycott the entertainment industry.

Edited 2007-02-02 15:01

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Remember
by kaiwai on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 18:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Remember"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Thank god, nice to hear someone here with a bit of common sense about the issue.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Remember
by Sphinx on Sun 4th Feb 2007 16:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Remember"
Sphinx Member since:
2005-07-09

Amen!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Remember
by Gooberslot on Mon 5th Feb 2007 01:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Remember"
Gooberslot Member since:
2006-08-02

So why doesn't the consumer do their own advocacy by voting with their damn wallets, instead of expecting others to do the work for them? If you want to boycott something, then boycott the entertainment industry.

Or you can boycott all DRM which means if, like me, you consider WPA and WGA as a form of DRM you can boycott Vista too.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Remember
by kaiwai on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 18:03 UTC in reply to "Remember"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Why say no to Vista? how about an easier way - just say no to DRM music - thats what I have done; I don't purchase music via the internet because of DRM and the low quality; as I've said in the past, until they come out with DRM-free FLAC encoded music, I'll stick to purchasing music cds that are unencumbered by DRM and the likes.

Same goes for a mirade of other things that are out there, that will utilise DRM and the secure path; I've said this once and say it again, what is BlueRay/HD-DVD actually bringing to the media world besides bigger storage? have these media companies ever thought about purging their DVD's of that free behind the scenes crap to free up space?

I'll be purchasing Vista along with Office 2007, but I won't be purchasing any of the DRM music or videos - I hardly think that Microsoft should be punished for the decisions of the media company; did Microsoft have a choice? sure, if they wanted to lose out to a rival, and for the management team to lose their jobs for making what the shareholders would consider an irresponsible business decision.

It is YOU the consumer that decide whether DRM succeeds by whether YOU purchase DRM encumbered media - only YOU have that power; Microsoft may provide the DRM facilities for media companies, but it still rests on us the consumer to decide whether or not to purchase the said media.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Remember
by Phloptical on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 23:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Remember"
Phloptical Member since:
2006-10-10

Buying CDs isn't any better. You're still giving the RIAA money and power. Might as well buy the tracks off iTunes.....same thing.

The only labels are the non-RIAA independent labels.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Remember
by cyclops on Sun 4th Feb 2007 04:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Remember"
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

I don't say no to Vista. I say no to Microsoft, for *implementing* DRM. There is no reason not to buy DRM infected media *as well*

Reply Score: 2

RE: Remember
by ronaldst on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 19:28 UTC in reply to "Remember"
ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

@Kroc

I never get pissed off. I am treated like a criminal...

LOL I am kidding. I always thought that phrase was retarded at best.

I don't use DRM (except for DVDs) because I don't buy online songs. Nor any media content. I never buy medialess stuff. And I makes sure people never do. IMO this is a place where the government should intervene and set a standard for medialess goods. But then we'd be removing rights/freedoms from companies like Apple. And that's wrong.

But I respect DRM. It's the content providers right. We should respected what they need. People who are against DRM have no right to impose themselves on content providers. When we do, we're no better then the average bully. People who download songs they haven't bought put themselves at risk. They know what they're doing isn't legal. They didn't pay for that media. It's called being a freeloader. DRM that is inefficient will get removed from the market. It's the natural way of life.

But I will get Vista. Because it's better then XP and it runs all my stuff. And that is what I want. DRM won't affect me one bit. Nor remove my rights. lol

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Remember
by PunchCardGuy on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 19:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Remember"
PunchCardGuy Member since:
2006-04-14

It is interesting to note that there has been recent news to the effect that content providers are starting to re-assess the use of DRM on medialess content due to the lagging sales of same. We'll see...

I also never buy medialess content, and really don't expect to change my position on this anytime soon.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Remember (OT! Reader's beware!)
by gilboa on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 23:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Remember"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

I was about to answer your post with a long tedious message that slowly turns your "I don't buy media/DVD/etc, so I don't care about DRM and DRM doesn't affect me" argument into dust but then I saw your last sentense... "Nor remove my rights lol" - which left me with one question.

How old are you? *

- Gilboa
* Reason for asking question: I don't waste time on 13 y/o that spend their days starting flame wars.

Edited 2007-02-02 23:33

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Remember
by gilboa on Sat 3rd Feb 2007 00:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Remember"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

... In case the "LOL" part was an honest mistake.

I'm a Linux developer. I will use Vista (as a development platform) but it will always run on emulated hardware (Xen, vmware) in a secure sandbox.
In short, I'm the last man on earth to care about DRM.

However, I -should- care.
Why?
Because DRM will force my LCD display manufacturer to include useless (customer wise) HDCP connector on my next LCD - increasing the price by a few percent.
DRM will also force my next audio or graphics card manufacturer to include DRM support hardware that will increase the complexity of Windows Vista drives by an order of magnitude - increasing the price of the hardware yet again.
... and while I couldn't care less about the stability Vista drivers, having a DRM enable hardware will most likely reduce the chances of having an open source driver to zero and will double complexity of the binary Linux drivers (which, given the added DRM work-load, will be less likely).

In short:
I will pay more for my next LCD display.
I will pay more for my next sound card.
I will pay more for my next video card.
And in return, I will get:
Less performance. (DRM enabled hardware will require DRM enable drivers - even under Linux [E.g. bus encryption])
Less stability. (DRM enable hardware and software is bound to be buggier)
Less support. (No OSS drivers. Less binary blob drivers)

If you think DRM doesn't effect you because "I don't use DRM (except for DVDs) because I don't buy online songs. Nor any media content. * I never buy medialess stuff"... *
Think again.

- Gilboa
* You assume that in 5 years you will find anything that's not DRM infected. (OS, Software, hardware, media, etc). Somehow, that term "naive" seems like an understatement right about now.

Edited 2007-02-03 00:02

Reply Score: 2

Demands
by Soulbender on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 13:09 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

"Microsoft has stated the movie and music industry have demanded this level of protection."

And, eh, what would the movie and music industry do if MS didn't implement it? Not make DVD's and CD's? Berate B.G in public? What exactly is their leverage here?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Demands
by Kroc on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 13:10 UTC in reply to "Demands"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Money.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Demands
by Darkelve on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 13:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Demands"
Darkelve Member since:
2006-02-06

Lots of it...

And promises. promises about more money...

Edited 2007-02-02 13:18

Reply Score: 2

RE: Demands
by CPUGuy on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 13:18 UTC in reply to "Demands"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

Just because Microsoft is a large company does not mean they have some sort of power to tell of the RIAA and MPAA.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Demands
by Soulbender on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 13:29 UTC in reply to "RE: Demands"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

the RIAA and MPAA apparently have some sort of power to make demands of MS though.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Demands
by CPUGuy on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 18:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Demands"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

Yeah, they say "Do you want to support HD and BlueRay? Well then you also have to support AACS".

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Demands
by B. Janssen on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 13:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Demands"
B. Janssen Member since:
2006-10-11

CPUGuy: Just because Microsoft is a large company does not mean they have some sort of power to tell of the RIAA and MPAA.

That leaves the OPs question unanswered and raises the next question: what kind of power is needed to "tell off" the RIAA/MPAA?

I would have thought that the right to implement in my software what i choose to is enough power. You say, it is not. What is?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Demands
by CPUGuy on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 18:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Demands"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

Microsoft had the right choose weather or not to support HD-DVD and BlueRay, with that came the Protected Media Path.

It's either support the new HD technologies (which are already in distribution) or not, it wasn't "oh, we'll add PMP to protect your stuff".

Sick of hearing this same old comment.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Demands
by tdemj on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 19:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Demands"
tdemj Member since:
2006-01-03

I agree, CPUGuy, it's not that Microsoft has developed DRM because the entertainment industry was begging for it. The media is already DRM protected, because the hardware manufacturers teamed up with the entertainment industry. The hardware is already given. Microsoft could have chosen not to support DRM media, but they didn't have a choice to implement HD-DVD/BlueRay support with bypassing DRM.

Open source will not have a choice either. Not without cracking the DRM. Will it be cracked, like the DVD copy protection was? Only time will tell, but you can't blame Microsoft for not providing such a crack for Vista users.

Hardware manufacturers don't have a choice either. You can try to engineer the most compact storage system and the best DRM-free file format that beats HD-DVD/BlueRay, the entertainment industry will choose the company that provides DRM. As long as there's a single company that gives in to the movie industry's request, that company gets all the content and the $$$.

No hardware or software company can go against the content providers. Only the consumers have more power than the entertainment industry. Sadly, the average people will get the content no matter what. They are willing to watch TV despite 10 minute commercial breaks every 5 minutes, even if they have to pay $80 a month for that thing. People do complain, but most get the content anyway, regardless the price, quality and inconvenience.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Demands
by butters on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 15:48 UTC in reply to "Demands"
butters Member since:
2005-07-08

what would the movie and music industry do if MS didn't implement it? What exactly is their leverage here?

Microsoft the biggest software company. The RIAA/MPAA controls the vast majority of mainstream media. There is at least an order of magnitude difference in power, probably more.

Controlling the information we experience is absolute power. Governments used to control the story. Hey, if you can't control reality, at least control the story. But that's not true anymore. In the US, when John Edwards talks about "Two Americas," he is talking about the eroding middle class. But at a more fundamental level, one America is loyal to FOX and the other is loyal to CNN (or MSNBC). They control the story.

We might as well just let the Nielson ratings determine election outcomes. It might even be more reliable than the current system (in the US).

Consumer advocacy, if done effectively and with a level of commitment I doubt is possible, can only put a dent in Big Media. The corporations that own the means of distribution (i.e. Netflix, Microsoft, Apple...) stand to lose the most by consumers reacting to Big Media's oppression.

You can write to your government representatives, but, like I said, they can't afford to piss off the ones that control their story.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Demands
by Soulbender on Mon 5th Feb 2007 11:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Demands"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"Microsoft the biggest software company. The RIAA/MPAA controls the vast majority of mainstream media."

Except that Microsoft is a global player while the RIAA/MPAA isn't and they don't actually control any content outside the U.S.A.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Demands
by Ford Prefect on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 17:18 UTC in reply to "Demands"
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

Microsoft wants to be the dominant player in content distribution. They try really hard, for years.

So they play nice with the content owners so that content owners play nice with them, too.


It's not the user who benefits from this techniques, but Microsoft.


This is nothing new to the software industry. Lots of software is already not only designed by the matter "what fits the customer both?" but "how do we profit most?".

One thing I really love about free software is that nearly always there is no such conflict and the design is solely made to fit the user. Never would an open source program implement methods to _reduce_ their functionality. Something very pervert, from a computer scientist's point of view.

Edited 2007-02-02 17:21

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Demands
by shapeshifter on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 21:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Demands"
shapeshifter Member since:
2006-09-19

Never would an open source program implement methods to _reduce_ their functionality. Something very pervert, from a computer scientist's point of view.

Ever tried Gnome after the 1.4 version?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Demands
by Ford Prefect on Sat 3rd Feb 2007 12:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Demands"
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

Gnome did not reduce functionality. They just didn't reimplement all the functionality.


Gnome did major reworks on the change from 1.X to 2.X
One of their decisions was that they didn't want to create feature bloat (again).


But they didn't write code/features that turn themselves off, or are shipped "inactive". In this scenario, it's even code which is for nothing else than reduce quality. So it's _extra_ code which does nothing else than spend _extra_ CPU time to make things worse.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Demands
by kaiwai on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 18:09 UTC in reply to "Demands"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

And, eh, what would the movie and music industry do if MS didn't implement it? Not make DVD's and CD's? Berate B.G in public? What exactly is their leverage here?

They would work with a company willing to provide an embedded operating system with those features as to allow playback on a media centre or other device.

Remember guys, if Microsoft, Apple and "OpenSource Community" all reject DRM, there will always be atleast one person/company who will emerge willing to compromise for the sake of a quick buck.

Reply Score: 2

it's a good thing in fact
by linux-it on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 13:50 UTC
linux-it
Member since:
2006-07-13

as it will harm Vista quite a lot!

The cost of running vista (the well known URLs skipped here) shows that it will be a big issue. There is no such thing as "demand by..." because MS can say no to it but they didn't.

Notice how fast MS is when a DRM issue comes up? Other bugs takes weeks or longer to get fixed, but DRM issues are fixed within days. This shows that MS has in this case a different agenda.

It's an agenda that is NOT good for customers. It's good for alternatives, like the *BSDs, linux, OS/X

chears for MS that they finally give this opportunity!

Reply Score: 2

Bottom line for me...
by fretinator on Fri 2nd Feb 2007 14:47 UTC
fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06

...increased respect for 800x600 resolution!

Reply Score: 2

hot air
by 2th_noname on Mon 5th Feb 2007 00:16 UTC
2th_noname
Member since:
2006-11-24

Alex's blog is a nice blog. It says I've bypass the vista driver signing and I've bypass the PMP. Where is the demonstration? It doesn't exist a demonstration, because it 'may violate' the DMCA. Sorry, it's simply hot air. Alex go back to TinyKrnl and ReactOS. Your are a nobody on the area of security research.

Reply Score: 1